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Can someone check my homework for me? ;)
(13 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
1 [2]
10.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 13 Nov 2007 Tue 08:46 pm

Spot on Trudy!

11.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 13 Nov 2007 Tue 08:55 pm

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting MarioninTurkey:

Ali futbol oynuyor mu?



Marion, a question for you: playing football is futbal oynamak isn't it?

Why then oynuyor? I learned to take of - mek or -mak. If the last remaining letter is a vowel, take it off too, but keep it in mind. In this case it is an A, so I guess it must be replaced by -ıyor instead of -uyor, like you did. What do I think wrong here?



I know it is oynuyor, because that is used here everyday.

Why? I think it is because when we drop the -a- we ignore the 'a' rules for vowel harmony, and look at the last vowel left. This is the "o" of oyn so the vowel harmony rules say it takes u:

oyn-u-yor

In the other examples they had söyliyor. This is normally witten söylüyor for the same reasons, I think.

I will post this, and see if someone like Calip can make it clearer!

12.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 14 Nov 2007 Wed 07:07 am

I really don't mean to confuse or bore anyone, but I believe that some Turkish etymology may shed light on this issue better than the rules of vowel harmony in modern Turkish.

The verb form "oynamak" is related to the root word "oy". This "oy" in old Turkish was conceptually related to things that one did in his idle/free time. Things, such as playing an instrument, dancing, singing, playing games etc were expressed through derivatives of the root word "oy".

Here are some examples of this "oy" in modern Turkish:

oy+un / game, play-thing

oy+un+a / to the play/game

oy+un+a eventually morphed into "oy+na!" / play!, which is the imperative form in modern Turkish.

The same oy+un+a that dropped its "u" and morphed itself into oy+na also took the infinitive ending of -mak from which we get the verbal form oy+(u)n+a+mak / oynamak, meaning "to play". So, oynamak is actually oyunamak. Hence, "oyun oynamak" is a type of repetition in modern Turkish, and it actually comes from oy+un oy+un+a+mak, which means "to play a game". The primary reason why we say oynamak instead of oyUnamak is simply because it must have felt easier to pronounce it that way.

In a similar way, oy+un+ak became oynak, meaning lively, frisky, active, mobile, flickering etc. while oy+un+ash became oynash, and oynashmak came to mean something like having a lover or making love outside marriage.

Later on, oynamak attached itself to most games, such as soccer, basketball, tennis etc. Futbol/Basketbol/Tenis/Bilardo oynamak...

As a result, oy(u)namak conjugates as oy(u)n+u+yor, just as soyunmak / to undress, to strip conjugates as soyun+u+yor.

Sormak / to ask becomes sor+u+yor.

This -yor that we use in modern Turkish to indicate the general present progressive tense also comes from another verb, which you may already be familiar with, namely yurumek, which means "to walk". But, that would be a completely different story of Turkish etymology.

If you find the above etymology confusing, it is because I have not been able to word it properly, and I apologize for causing any confusion.


Quoting MarioninTurkey:

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting MarioninTurkey:

Ali futbol oynuyor mu?



Marion, a question for you: playing football is futbal oynamak isn't it?

Why then oynuyor? I learned to take of - mek or -mak. If the last remaining letter is a vowel, take it off too, but keep it in mind. In this case it is an A, so I guess it must be replaced by -ıyor instead of -uyor, like you did. What do I think wrong here?



I know it is oynuyor, because that is used here everyday.

Why? I think it is because when we drop the -a- we ignore the 'a' rules for vowel harmony, and look at the last vowel left. This is the "o" of oyn so the vowel harmony rules say it takes u:

oyn-u-yor

In the other examples they had söyliyor. This is normally witten söylüyor for the same reasons, I think.

I will post this, and see if someone like Calip can make it clearer!

13.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 15 Nov 2007 Thu 11:50 am

Quoting AlphaF:

What is the difference in meaning? Any guesses?

Ali futbol oynuyor mu?
Ali futbol mu oynuyor?



The difference shows which word is more important in the sentence, or we can say the stress.

Ali futbol oynuyor mu?
[important word/word group] + mu?

Here, it is "oynuyor".
This is a normal question. We ask if he is playing or not.

Ali futbol mu oynuyor?

Here, important thing is "futbol".
This sentence says: "Ali is playing but what is Ali playing?" or in other words, we are trying to ask if Ali plays football or another game/sport.

Let's see another version:
Ali mi futbol oynuyor?

Here, it is "Ali". Questions says this: "Someone is playing futbol but it is hard to believe that he is Ali. Are you sure that he is Ali?"

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