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10.       bod
5999 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:28 pm

Ah!
That makes lots of sense
Teşekklür ederim

This is what I was referring to



Except the brand in Türtamek, the European brand name for Tamak. Not sure why they use "Türtamek" as a brand name as it breaks vowel harmony rules - but such is life I guess :-S

11.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:38 pm

becoz its not necessary to search wovel harmony in private names or so...

12.       bod
5999 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:43 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris:

becoz its not necessary to search wovel harmony in private names or so...



By private names do you mean proper nouns???

For example - if I wanted to put Floss (one of my doggies) in the ablative state, would I still need to apply vowel harmony????
Floss'dan

13.       erdinc
2151 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 05:14 pm

Hi bod,
Brand names don't follow the volwel harmony rules. For instance 'tamek' is a brand name and it doesnt follow the rule. There could be many reasons why it doesnt. Maybe it is made up of two different words, maybe it is adopted from another language. There are many proper names that don't follow the rule themselves but the suffixes will.
Example:
'İstanbul' has both deep and sharp vowels. Suffixes count only to the last vowel and the last consonant.
Examples:
İstanbul'da (Because 'u' we use 'da' with 'a' and not 'de')
Marmaris'te (Because 'i' we use 'te' and not 'ta' and because 's' we use 'te' and not 'de') So vowel harmony determines the vowel in the suffix and consonant harmony determines the consonant in the suffix (if the suffix starts witha consonant).

We have also many nouns in Turkish that don't follow the vowel harmony rules.
Example:
domates
patates
sigara
bira
Of course when you ad a suffix you still have to follow the vowel and consonant harmony rules. Suffixes always follow the rules. Of course there are exceptions. For instance the present continuous tense suffix -iyor (example: geliyor) breaks the rule by having a deep and sharp vowel at the same time but follows the rule by changing according to the last vowel (-ıyor, -iyor, -uyor, -üyor).
So we say domates+ler (nor domateslar) , domates+in (nor domatesın) , bira+yı (not birayi) , bira+mı (not birami),... etc. and match the last vowels.

There is also a consonant harmony rule with suffixes. If a suffix starts with a consonant it has two forms.
voiced consonant: p, ç, t, k, h, s, ş, f

A word ending with a voiced consonant, when taking a suffix that starts with a consonant, takes the suffix that starts with a voiced consonant. İn other words, you match voiced consonants with each other and vice-versa.

So your example should be "Floss'tan" :
"Floss'tan neden hoşlanmıyorsun?"

14.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 07:21 pm

Quoting Elisa:

Quoting bod:

I someone were to ask me:
Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?
Do you want cherry juice?

Which would be the polite way of declining the offer and what in the difference in these meanings in this context???

Yok sağol!
Hayır teşekkürler!


No thanks!



I don't really understand why you would answer "yok" instead of "hayır". Doesn't "yok" have the meaning of "there is not"? So if someone asks me if I want juice, and I want to refuse, I would say "hayır" and not "yok"? To me it feels like answering with "yok" wouldn't make much sense. Can someone enlighten me please?



Anyone? I'm curious

15.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 08:34 pm

I tried to find the thread about singular and plural speech, but i could not find it. Could someone please put a link here of the thread?


About Hayir and Yok.. i guess yok can also mean 'no' in informal speech, because sometimes instead of 'no'/'hayir' i heard Turks answer 'yok yok'. But i guess the explanation of a Turkish person/teacher would enlighten more

16.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 09:30 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:

I tried to find the thread about singular and plural speech, but i could not find it. Could someone please put a link here of the thread?



Deli_kizin, you know French, if I remember correctly? It's just the same thing as "tutoyer"(tu=2nd person singular) and "vousvoyer" (vous=2nd person plural)
You address a person who is older/more important/you don't know so well.. anyway, a person who you have to be polite to with "vous" (which is also the equivalent of the plural 2nd person "you" in English, or "siz" in Turkish) and not with "tu". "Tu" is for family, friends, people you know and are close to you.
It's just the same with "sen" and "siz".

Elisa

17.       bod
5999 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 10:25 pm

Quoting erdinc:


So your example should be "Floss'tan" :
"Floss'tan neden hoşlanmıyorsun?"



So does this translate as:
What makes Floss happy?

18.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 10:53 pm

Quoting Elisa:

Deli_kizin, you know French, if I remember correctly?



Yes you remembered well Thanks. We have it in Dutch too though (jij en u) and in Spanish (tu y usted). As far as i know English is one of the few languages that doesn't have this, something i find particulary strange..because to me it kinda shows a lack of respect, by the missing of such a word in the nuances of a language.

Quoting bod:

Quoting erdinc:


So your example should be "Floss'tan" :
"Floss'tan neden hoşlanmıyorsun?"



So does this translate as:
What makes Floss happy?



I'd say...


Why don't you like Floss?

19.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 11:33 pm

Quote:

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting Elisa:

Deli_kizin, you know French, if I remember correctly?



Yes you remembered well Thanks. We have it in Dutch too though (jij en u) and in Spanish (tu y usted). As far as i know English is one of the few languages that doesn't have this, something i find particulary strange..because to me it kinda shows a lack of respect, by the missing of such a word in the nuances of a language.



English does have it in a way, it just so happens that 2nd person sing. and 2nd person plural are the same word..


Quoting bod:

Quoting erdinc:


So your example should be "Floss'tan" :
"Floss'tan neden hoşlanmıyorsun?"



So does this translate as:
What makes Floss happy?



I'd say...


Why don't you like Floss?



/-den/ hoşlanmak: to like

20.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 25 Jan 2006 Wed 12:13 pm

Quoting Elisa:


/-den/ hoşlanmak: to like



yes.. but that makes

/-den hoşlanmamak: to not like/to dislike

So hoşlanmıyorsun would mean 'you don't like' right?


and AMAZIN, finally no trouble with those letters!

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