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Declining an offer
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| 1. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 01:29 am |
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If someone were to ask me:
Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?
Do you want cherry juice?
Which would be the polite way of declining the offer and what in the difference in these meanings in this context???
Yok sağol!
Hayır teşekkürler!
No thanks!
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| 2. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 01:59 am |
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Quoting bod: I someone were to ask me:
Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?
Do you want cherry juice?
Which would be the polite way of declining the offer and what in the difference in these meanings in this context???
Yok sağol!
Hayır teşekkürler!
No thanks! |
yok sagol is used between more close friends actually.. the second one will be the polite one..
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| 3. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:34 am |
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Quoting bod: I someone were to ask me:
Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?
Do you want cherry juice?
Which would be the polite way of declining the offer and what in the difference in these meanings in this context???
Yok sağol!
Hayır teşekkürler!
No thanks! |
The main difference between the two is the distance. In the first you are getting more personal while in the second you keep the distance.
"Yok sağol" is informal. You could use it if the person is a close friend of you or you are equal in position. So you normally wont say sağol to your boss or to the waiter, nor they should say sağol to you.
It would be very normal if somebody touches your shoulder while saying "yok sağol".
"Yok sağolun", with sağolun as the plural form of sağol is more polite and formal than sağol. It is more formal than sağol but at the same time it is still friendy. As you know already when speaking to a single person we use the plural second person to make speech more polite. So "Yok, sağolun." or "Hayır, sağolun." would be a good alternative. Sağolun when used to a singe person is a word you are likely to use to people you know and have respect. People in a lower position can use sağolun to others in a higher position. Of course to close friends you don't say sağolun (the plural).
"Hayır, teşekkürler." is clearly more formal than both of the above. I would recommend using this as it is more safe to use. You could say it to close friends, to the waiter, to your boss or to anyone else. It is formal and polite. Also "Hayır, çok teşekkür ederim." can be considered.
In Turkish when to people are having a conversation there are two ways of speech. One is "sen'li konuşma" or "sen'li-ben'li konuşma" and the other is "siz'li konuşma". Usually when you met somebody you start talking in plurals (siz'li) and then after a while you continue with singulars if you want to be informal. When you switch from plurals to singulars this is a sign of being more friendly to each other.
Assuming two people are talking:
-Kola ister misin?
-Yok, sağol.
Both people are informal and friendly.
-Kola ister misin?
-Yok, sağolun. (Here the informal approach of the first person is declined by the second person by using plural after a singular usage). Normally yok and sağolun don't suit nicely to each other. Yok is a more strong word and normally hayır should be used with sağolun. Maybe the second person feels uncomfortable and wants to decline the offer in a strong way or maybe s/he hesitated for a while and then suddenly said yok sağolun. It is unclear. Not a good sign about the second person to use yok together with a more polite word.
-Kola ister misiniz?
-Yok, sağol. (Here the second person looks like not being very sophisticated as mixing singular and plurals. The question is plural so the first person keeps the distance but the answer is singular and second person doesnt understand the first person's intention. Not a good sign about the second person).
-Kola ister misin?
-Hayır, teşekkürler.
(First person is trying to be informal. Second person's response doesnt tell much about his approach except that s/he is polite.)
-Kola ister misiniz?
-Hayır, teşekkürler.
Both people are formal and polite.
edit:
Instead "Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?" I suggest "Vişne suyu ister misin?".
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| 4. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 11:33 am |
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Quoting erdinc:
In Turkish when to people are having a conversation there are two ways of speech. One is "sen'li konuşma" or "sen'li-ben'li konuşma" and the other is "siz'li konuşma". Usually when you met somebody you start talking in plurals (siz'li) and then after a while you continue with singulars if you want to be informal. When you switch from plurals to singulars this is a sign of being more friendly to each other.
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In previous post Edinç gave us a very clear and detailed explanation of using "sen'li konuşma" and "siz'li konuşma" (singulars and plurals) in Turkish.
I recommend reading this explanation to all native English speakers (and especially only-English speakers), since I know from my experience that many of them have difficulties using singular and plural second person in other languages, and especially using the plural second person when speaking to a single person. I think this post can help much.
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| 5. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 11:42 am |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: Quoting bod: I someone were to ask me:
Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?
Do you want cherry juice?
Which would be the polite way of declining the offer and what in the difference in these meanings in this context???
Yok sağol!
Hayır teşekkürler!
No thanks! |
yok sagol is used between more close friends actually.. the second one will be the polite one.. |
I don't really understand why you would answer "yok" instead of "hayır". Doesn't "yok" have the meaning of "there is not"? So if someone asks me if I want juice, and I want to refuse, I would say "hayır" and not "yok"? Can someone enlighten me please? 
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| 6. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 11:42 am |
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Quoting erdinc: edit:
Instead "Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?" I suggest "Vişne suyu ister misin?". |
I used "viçne nektari" because that is what it says on the carton and I understand that viçne nektari and viçne suyu are different things!
Why is "ister misin" better than "istiyor musun"?
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| 7. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 01:14 pm |
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| 8. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 01:27 pm |
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Quoting salukvadze: 'Su' in such examples (vişne suyu, şalgam suyu, tavuk suyu,etc) indicates the fluid part of fruits,vegetables and meat bir bardak portakal suyu=a glass of orange juice / sulu portakal = juicy oranges)But also used for any delicious drink.In Turkish we don't have any word for nectar which is from old Greek stories and means 'the drink of the gods'. lol |
Erm......
The carton I have says the words "Vişne Nektari" and it is produced in Türkiye :-S
Plus in this thread it was said that portakal suyu is pure orange juice whereas portakal nektari has added water and is diluted with water.......
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| 9. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:22 pm |
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No, I've heard of nektar. You can see it on the boxes of drinks in the markets. http://www.tamek.com.tr/trk/urunler_ic.asp
But it's more a commercial thing, so people don't say it like "kayısı nektarı" in a restaurent, cafe, at a friends house wherever.. "vişne suyu, kayısı suyu, portakal suyu, şeftali suyu" etc. are used in spoken.
and sometimes on the drinks, it's written "portakal suyu", but ofcourse it's not pure, and in the ingredients, they write "nektar".
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| 10. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:28 pm |
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Ah!
That makes lots of sense 
Teşekklür ederim
This is what I was referring to
Except the brand in Türtamek, the European brand name for Tamak. Not sure why they use "Türtamek" as a brand name as it breaks vowel harmony rules - but such is life I guess :-S
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| 11. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:38 pm |
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becoz its not necessary to search wovel harmony in private names or so...
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| 12. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:43 pm |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: becoz its not necessary to search wovel harmony in private names or so... |
By private names do you mean proper nouns???
For example - if I wanted to put Floss (one of my doggies) in the ablative state, would I still need to apply vowel harmony????
Floss'dan
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| 13. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 05:14 pm |
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Hi bod,
Brand names don't follow the volwel harmony rules. For instance 'tamek' is a brand name and it doesnt follow the rule. There could be many reasons why it doesnt. Maybe it is made up of two different words, maybe it is adopted from another language. There are many proper names that don't follow the rule themselves but the suffixes will.
Example:
'İstanbul' has both deep and sharp vowels. Suffixes count only to the last vowel and the last consonant.
Examples:
İstanbul'da (Because 'u' we use 'da' with 'a' and not 'de')
Marmaris'te (Because 'i' we use 'te' and not 'ta' and because 's' we use 'te' and not 'de') So vowel harmony determines the vowel in the suffix and consonant harmony determines the consonant in the suffix (if the suffix starts witha consonant).
We have also many nouns in Turkish that don't follow the vowel harmony rules.
Example:
domates
patates
sigara
bira
Of course when you ad a suffix you still have to follow the vowel and consonant harmony rules. Suffixes always follow the rules. Of course there are exceptions. For instance the present continuous tense suffix -iyor (example: geliyor) breaks the rule by having a deep and sharp vowel at the same time but follows the rule by changing according to the last vowel (-ıyor, -iyor, -uyor, -üyor).
So we say domates+ler (nor domateslar) , domates+in (nor domatesın) , bira+yı (not birayi) , bira+mı (not birami),... etc. and match the last vowels.
There is also a consonant harmony rule with suffixes. If a suffix starts with a consonant it has two forms.
voiced consonant: p, ç, t, k, h, s, ş, f
A word ending with a voiced consonant, when taking a suffix that starts with a consonant, takes the suffix that starts with a voiced consonant. İn other words, you match voiced consonants with each other and vice-versa.
So your example should be "Floss'tan" :
"Floss'tan neden hoşlanmıyorsun?"
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| 14. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 07:21 pm |
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Quoting Elisa: Quoting bod: I someone were to ask me:
Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?
Do you want cherry juice?
Which would be the polite way of declining the offer and what in the difference in these meanings in this context???
Yok sağol!
Hayır teşekkürler!
No thanks! |
I don't really understand why you would answer "yok" instead of "hayır". Doesn't "yok" have the meaning of "there is not"? So if someone asks me if I want juice, and I want to refuse, I would say "hayır" and not "yok"? To me it feels like answering with "yok" wouldn't make much sense. Can someone enlighten me please? |
Anyone? I'm curious
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| 15. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 08:34 pm |
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I tried to find the thread about singular and plural speech, but i could not find it. Could someone please put a link here of the thread?
About Hayir and Yok.. i guess yok can also mean 'no' in informal speech, because sometimes instead of 'no'/'hayir' i heard Turks answer 'yok yok'. But i guess the explanation of a Turkish person/teacher would enlighten more 
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| 16. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 09:30 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: I tried to find the thread about singular and plural speech, but i could not find it. Could someone please put a link here of the thread?
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Deli_kizin, you know French, if I remember correctly? It's just the same thing as "tutoyer"(tu=2nd person singular) and "vousvoyer" (vous=2nd person plural)
You address a person who is older/more important/you don't know so well.. anyway, a person who you have to be polite to with "vous" (which is also the equivalent of the plural 2nd person "you" in English, or "siz" in Turkish) and not with "tu". "Tu" is for family, friends, people you know and are close to you.
It's just the same with "sen" and "siz".
Elisa
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| 17. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 10:25 pm |
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Quoting erdinc:
So your example should be "Floss'tan" :
"Floss'tan neden hoşlanmıyorsun?" |
So does this translate as:
What makes Floss happy?
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| 18. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 10:53 pm |
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Quoting Elisa: Deli_kizin, you know French, if I remember correctly? |
Yes you remembered well Thanks. We have it in Dutch too though (jij en u) and in Spanish (tu y usted). As far as i know English is one of the few languages that doesn't have this, something i find particulary strange..because to me it kinda shows a lack of respect, by the missing of such a word in the nuances of a language.
Quoting bod: Quoting erdinc:
So your example should be "Floss'tan" :
"Floss'tan neden hoşlanmıyorsun?" |
So does this translate as:
What makes Floss happy? |
I'd say...
Why don't you like Floss?
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| 19. |
24 Jan 2006 Tue 11:33 pm |
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Quote: Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting Elisa: Deli_kizin, you know French, if I remember correctly? |
Yes you remembered well Thanks. We have it in Dutch too though (jij en u) and in Spanish (tu y usted). As far as i know English is one of the few languages that doesn't have this, something i find particulary strange..because to me it kinda shows a lack of respect, by the missing of such a word in the nuances of a language. |
English does have it in a way, it just so happens that 2nd person sing. and 2nd person plural are the same word..
Quoting bod: Quoting erdinc:
So your example should be "Floss'tan" :
"Floss'tan neden hoşlanmıyorsun?" |
So does this translate as:
What makes Floss happy? |
I'd say...
Why don't you like Floss? |
/-den/ hoşlanmak: to like
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| 20. |
25 Jan 2006 Wed 12:13 pm |
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Quoting Elisa:
/-den/ hoşlanmak: to like |
yes.. but that makes
/-den hoşlanmamak: to not like/to dislike
So hoşlanmıyorsun would mean 'you don't like' right?
and AMAZIN, finally no trouble with those letters! 
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| 21. |
27 Jan 2006 Fri 12:34 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: /-den hoşlanmamak: to not like/to dislike
So hoşlanmıyorsun would mean 'you don't like' right? |
WinMekMak translates it as:
sen hoşlanmıyorsun
you are not liking
But I am sure that "you do not like" would be a better translation!!!
Quoting Deli_kizin: and AMAZIN, finally no trouble with those letters! |
Did you get the keyboard layout working or are you relying on the buttons at the top???
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