General/Off-topic |
|
|
|
Clinton, Obama or Edwards?
|
1. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 10:52 am |
I quite like to know who your favorite is?
|
|
2. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 10:53 am |
Quoting thehandsom: I quite like to know who is your favorite? |
Ron Paul.
Do people in turkey also tell each other who they vote for?
|
|
3. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 12:09 pm |
Quoting catwoman: Quoting thehandsom: I quite like to know who is your favorite? |
Ron Paul.
Do people in turkey also tell each other who they vote for?  |
Nope..We are quite secretive about it..
|
|
4. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 12:30 pm |
Quoting thehandsom: Nope..We are quite secretive about it.. |
That's what I heard... privacy is important!
|
|
5. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 12:35 pm |
Obama!!!
|
|
6. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 01:03 pm |
Ron Paul!!!!!!
|
|
7. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 01:49 pm |
Quoting catwoman:
Ron Paul!!!!!! |
well it would be very good if republucians nominate Ron Paul or even John Mccain..they are much much much better than George Walker Stupid Bush according to some turkish newspapers. they may change strict american politics in middle east.. but still i would love a black young democrat man to be president of USA ( indirectly president of the world )
|
|
9. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 02:04 pm |
Yeah, anything is better then GWB... well, maybe except for Giuliani.. A young, black, intelligent man with a lot of charisma appeals to lots of people, but to me, he's not much different then Clinton or Edwards (except for a better sense of humor). When I listen to Obama, after 5 minutes I'm wondering what is it that he actually said? Other then a nice rhetoric about how we are all warriors for change and that it's united states... His track record isn't that coherent either. He's talking about "change" (I'm sick of that word already), but all the "change" that I can see in him is that it will be a black president of a corrupt government instead of a white one. Despite all that, there's not much to choose from anyway.
|
|
10. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 02:29 pm |
They all try to expose the corruption while campaigning, but then continue to do the same thing. There's nobody among them who can be trusted other then Ron Paul.
Maybe if Obama becomes the president, some small things might improve - like the stem cell research, gay marriage, hopefully he'll end the war in Iraq. But I highly doubt that he'll do ANYTHING about the economy, taxes or healtcare.
|
|
11. |
08 Jan 2008 Tue 07:32 pm |
Quoting catwoman:
Ron Paul!!!!!! |
It is cause he is a doctor, isn't it?
What I gather is that he's in favour of legalising marijuana, against abortion and homosexual marriages? So is that his idea to help your country: to make you all high - at least you'll stop worrying about everything, then you'll be free to procreate whether you want it or not in a 'gay-free' society?
|
|
12. |
09 Jan 2008 Wed 12:53 am |
Quoting thehandsom: I quite like to know who your favorite is? |
Well handsom, it IS a secret ballot. I always find it curious that after fighting for the right to a secret vote, we give it up so easily.
Anyway, I'm sorta undecided right now....but I lean towards Edwards myself.
|
|
13. |
09 Jan 2008 Wed 02:23 am |
Quoting alameda:
Well handsom, it IS a secret ballot. I always find it curious that after fighting for the right to a secret vote, we give it up so easily.
|
A secret ballot does not mean you shouldn't discuss your vote if you CHOOSE to. That's the beauty of living in a free society!
I am undecided although I will most defintely not be voting for that evangelical-wanna-be-god Mr. Huckabee or any other Republican candidate...I've had enough of their crap.
|
|
14. |
09 Jan 2008 Wed 08:26 am |
Quoting Daydreamer: Quoting catwoman:
Ron Paul!!!!!! |
It is cause he is a doctor, isn't it?
What I gather is that he's in favour of legalising marijuana, against abortion and homosexual marriages? So is that his idea to help your country: to make you all high - at least you'll stop worrying about everything, then you'll be free to procreate whether you want it or not in a 'gay-free' society? |
Canim, Ron Paul doesn't think that such things should be decided by the federal government, even if these are his beliefs.
The reason why I like him is that he stands for the Constitution, small government, no income tax (god, that would be paradise), freedom, closing all US military bases around the world... etc. He's the only guy who makes sense and doesn't have to do any poetical cover-ups of the same old corrupted status quo.
|
|
15. |
09 Jan 2008 Wed 08:36 am |
Perot + Nader = Paul
|
|
16. |
10 Jan 2008 Thu 01:38 am |
Clinton "Tearing" Up!! Ha, ha
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/09/clinton-tearing-up-coul_n_80643.html
|
|
17. |
11 Jan 2008 Fri 03:16 am |
Washington diary: Hillary's tears
|
|
18. |
11 Jan 2008 Fri 05:24 am |
Quoting girleegirl: Perot + Nader = Paul
|
+1000
That is fantastic!!!!!
|
|
19. |
11 Jan 2008 Fri 07:17 am |
Quoting KeithL:
+1000
That is fantastic!!!!! |
It is fantastic but only gets +1000?
|
|
20. |
12 Jan 2008 Sat 09:06 am |
Quoting thehandsom: I quite like to know who your favorite is? |
d)none of the above
Is this considered an option?
|
|
21. |
12 Jan 2008 Sat 12:12 pm |
Quoting thehandsom: I quite like to know who your favorite is? |
Me too. As I don't have time to study American politics, I don't know who would be the best president. All we get in the UK is the battle between Obama and Clinton, the TV news does not report so much on the other two, Edwards and the dynamic one whose name fails me! And when they do report, it is not what their policies are but who is flying the biggest "Change" banner, what the exit polls say.
I get the feeling that these preliminary rounds are more about personality than policies, I bet you would find it difficult to split their policies with a fag paper.
It is quite sickening to watch the campaigning on TV, how glamourous they make it, how the husband or wife stands by their side, hugging and kissing! Or their children, look at us, we are the perfect family etc etc.............. The baby holding, the door knocking, OK so what are their policies????????? (Please tell me, how does Hilary get her hair to stay in place so prefectly?)
I am a bit cynical because the USA has such a big effect on the UK, of which most I don't like. To mention a few, war, economy, consumerism, obesity ................
|
|
22. |
13 Jan 2008 Sun 04:23 am |
Quoting geniuda:
d)none of the above
Is this considered an option? |
Only if you don't care who ends up running the country.
|
|
23. |
13 Jan 2008 Sun 04:28 am |
Quoting girleegirl: Quoting geniuda:
d)none of the above
Is this considered an option? |
Only if you don't care who ends up running the country. |
ohoh! I do
|
|
24. |
13 Jan 2008 Sun 04:45 am |
Quoting libralady:
I get the feeling that these preliminary rounds are more about personality than policies, I bet you would find it difficult to split their policies with a fag paper.
It is quite sickening to watch the campaigning on TV, how glamourous they make it, how the husband or wife stands by their side, hugging and kissing! Or their children, look at us, we are the perfect family etc etc.............. The baby holding, the door knocking, OK so what are their policies????????? (Please tell me, how does Hilary get her hair to stay in place so prefectly?)
I am a bit cynical because the USA has such a big effect on the UK, of which most I don't like. To mention a few, war, economy, consumerism, obesity ................ |
You are quite right....it is disgusting. It comes down to who has the most money to pay for "our public airwaves" time to present their case. There has been a lot of "talk" about
Campaign Finance Reform
One of others I like is:
Dennis Kucinich...who is actually my favorite, but he doesn't have much of a chance.
Here is a link to all the candidates:
2008 US presidential candidates
|
|
25. |
13 Jan 2008 Sun 05:01 am |
Quoting alameda: One of others I like is:
Dennis Kucinich...who is actually my favorite, but he doesn't have much of a chance. |
Kucinich is also my favorite along with Ron Paul.
|
|
26. |
14 Jan 2008 Mon 03:22 am |
High respect for Kucinich, too bad he is out of the race!!!! He was human.
|
|
27. |
14 Jan 2008 Mon 10:23 pm |
Why not, Oprah endorsed him and just look at his successful 2 year track record..
Hillary? God help us.....
|
|
28. |
15 Jan 2008 Tue 02:57 am |
A Vagueness in Obama’s Message
Hopefully, the results of the New Hampshire primary will eliminate Barack Obama’s use of the vague and misleading words hope and change in his presidential campaign.
With early contests finished in two small states with disproportionate influence—New Hampshire and Iowa—we move into bigger states more typical of the rest of the country. But even if the two small states are untypical, lessons can be drawn from them, particularly from New Hampshire.
The most important to the Democrats is to avoid a campaign like Obama’s, built on his soaring words of hope and change.
I’ve been put off by those words, which became the centerpiece of Obama’s campaign. Maybe I am too cynical or too old or too disillusioned from being burned by past failed crusades. But words and elevated oratory are not enough for me. Nor were they enough for New Hampshire Democrats.
They wanted substance. Although the unemployment rate is not especially high in New Hampshire, too many jobs are in low-pay retail and service and have small or no health insurance benefits. A union leader in Concord, N.H., told me that many of the state’s residents have to work two or three jobs. Sen. Hillary Clinton, ridiculed by her many critics for policy-heavy speeches and question-and-answer sessions, was in sync with voters facing an uncertain economic future. (...)
|
|
29. |
15 Jan 2008 Tue 03:37 pm |
Quoting teaschip1:
Why not, Oprah endorsed him and just look at his successful 2 year track record..
Hillary? God help us..... |
Tell us what they stand for, hopefully nothing like Bush - waiting....................
|
|
30. |
15 Jan 2008 Tue 06:30 pm |
Quoting libralady: Quoting teaschip1:
Why not, Oprah endorsed him and just look at his successful 2 year track record..
Hillary? God help us..... |
Tell us what they stand for, hopefully nothing like Bush - waiting.................... |
Obama, has no experience with foreign policy. He has even agreed to pulling men out of Iraq and invading Iran and going into Pakistan. Just what we need, two more countries to invade.
Hillary, she is just plain evil. She wants to socialize healthcare, brilliant but costly. Who the hell do you think is going to pay for it. You got it, the tax payers.. She has done absoultely nothing as a Senator for New York but wants to be our President. Not to mention her flip flop on many issues, including the Iraq war.
Ron Paul, I agree with most of his views except his stance on the UN and War Reparations..
My Pick McCain...
Experienced with Foreign Policy and National Security..Has been an active member of the Armed Services Committee since 1987. Experienced with Military Affairs..The only Republican I'm aware that has consistently supported cutting taxes and decreasing spending and has record of actually doing both. On the issues McCain is conservative but not so much to alienate moderates and independents.
|
|
31. |
15 Jan 2008 Tue 06:33 pm |
I have said this many times....A requirement for President should be past militray experience, even if only 2 years.
The only exception to this rule who was a great president was Reagan.
|
|
32. |
15 Jan 2008 Tue 06:43 pm |
Quote: My Pick McCain...
Experienced with Foreign Policy and National Security..Has been an active member of the Armed Services Committee since 1987. Experienced with Military Affairs..The only Republican I'm aware that has consistently supported cutting taxes and decreasing spending and has record of actually doing both. On the issues McCain is conservative but not so much to alienate moderates and independents. |
I couldn't agree more!
|
|
33. |
15 Jan 2008 Tue 07:21 pm |
Quoting KeithL: I have said this many times....A requirement for President should be past militray experience, even if only 2 years.
The only exception to this rule who was a great president was Reagan. |
Hopefully, the new one wont be asking to see 'the war room'
And, end of all these, I am (the entire world actually) hoping, this bunch of dirty neo-cons wont be here for another 4 years..
|
|
34. |
15 Jan 2008 Tue 08:41 pm |
American politics is the strangest thing. There's only two parties that count for something, the democrats being on the right and the republicans being on the far right.
None of the candidates really appeal to me I just want the next president to be a democrat as I see them being the least bad. Let's turn around the horrow show that's been going on the the past two periods.
|
|
35. |
16 Jan 2008 Wed 11:07 pm |
Quoting teaschip1: Quoting libralady: Quoting teaschip1:
Why not, Oprah endorsed him and just look at his successful 2 year track record..
Hillary? God help us..... |
Tell us what they stand for, hopefully nothing like Bush - waiting.................... |
Obama, has no experience with foreign policy. He has even agreed to pulling men out of Iraq and invading Iran and going into Pakistan. Just what we need, two more countries to invade.
Hillary, she is just plain evil. She wants to socialize healthcare, brilliant but costly. Who the hell do you think is going to pay for it. You got it, the tax payers.. She has done absoultely nothing as a Senator for New York but wants to be our President. Not to mention her flip flop on many issues, including the Iraq war.
Ron Paul, I agree with most of his views except his stance on the UN and War Reparations..
My Pick McCain...
Experienced with Foreign Policy and National Security..Has been an active member of the Armed Services Committee since 1987. Experienced with Military Affairs..The only Republican I'm aware that has consistently supported cutting taxes and decreasing spending and has record of actually doing both. On the issues McCain is conservative but not so much to alienate moderates and independents. |
Actually your healthcare system could do with an overhaul, being the worst in the western world!
|
|
36. |
16 Jan 2008 Wed 11:33 pm |
Actually Libra, it's the best in the entire world in terms of quality.
|
|
37. |
16 Jan 2008 Wed 11:54 pm |
But when it comes to quantity....
|
|
38. |
16 Jan 2008 Wed 11:59 pm |
What about quantity? I don't understand what you mean? Has anyone tried to get a hip replacement in Canada? Because it is not concidered a "serious" condition it could be months or even a year before your "turn" is up.
I work in a the medical center in Houston and we have some of the most advanced treatment centers in Cancer (MD Anderson), heart surgery (St. Lukes), organ transplants (Methodist)....there is NO problem with healthcare. People come from all over the world to have treatment here. The problem is with access to Health Insurance and should never be associated with the level of care received here.
|
|
39. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:01 am |
I think that is our point with your system. Wonderful healthcare for the rich...
As we were talking about the whole "system" then yes, actually, yours is the worst in the west.
Our system has many faults in the UK, but at least everything is free - from pills that cost several thousand pounds a week, to major heart surgery.
Our University hospitals and Cancer Charities don't do a bad job in research and developments either
|
|
40. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:08 am |
...bu arada, I went on a business trip to Houston and drove through a huge area dedicated to hospitals and medical research. I must admit it was pretty impressive. Is that where you work?
|
|
41. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:20 am |
Quoting AEnigma III: I think that is our point with your system. Wonderful healthcare for the rich...
As we were talking about the whole "system" then yes, actually, yours is the worst in the west.
Our system has many faults in the UK, but at least everything is free - from pills that cost several thousand pounds a week, to major heart surgery.
Our University hospitals and Cancer Charities don't do a bad job in research and developments either  |
The problem lies with many companies that do not offer healthcare to there employees. Hospitals offer a lot of services for people who do not have insurance but how long can that keep up? When only 50% of your patients pay their bills thru insurance and the rest are self pay...hospitals are left to pay there enormous staff and overhead with only half the revenue. Hospitals are faced with constant issues with loss of income. Healthcare in most countries is socialized and therefore "free" however, I think you might pay much higher taxes.
In the early 1990's Hillary Clinton came up with a halfway decent plan to ensure everyone had healthcare, but when it came down to implementation, she shut out the AMA (American Medical Association) and told them that doctors were not needed in the decision making process. Her arrogance cost many Americans healthcare coverage. The AMA hired powerful lobbiest to defeat the plan. Basically, she thought a group of lawyers could make better medical decisions than doctors. That is the biggest reason why I don't like her. She is arrogant and short sighted.
OK...I will get off my soap box now....Hillary does not have my vote....I prefer John McCain....but we'll see. Its a long way to election day.
|
|
42. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:28 am |
Quoting Elisabeth: Healthcare in most countries is socialized and therefore "free" however, I think you might pay much higher taxes. |
It is pretty fair actually. We pay National Insurance which is deducted the same way as tax. It is not an enormous amount but it means that people in full time employment are contributing and the poor, elderly and children do not have to.
The amount we pay for national insurance is really not so bad considering it also covers a State Pension. (I won't debate on whether that pension is enough or not!!).
|
|
43. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:28 am |
I would love to see the first woman defeat the sexism of the US and become a president, but socialized healthcare is evil. It's just a bad idea based on a good intention.
Socialized healthcare is similar to a welfare government, which obviously fails because if you get something for free which has an infinite demand, there won't be enough resources to pay for it. There are much better solutions, like increasing the primary healthcare base - which is really the cause of so many people not having adequate health care in the US.
|
|
44. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:33 am |
Quoting catwoman: socialized healthcare is evil. It's just a bad idea based on a good intention. |
Actually it is a very fair and good system. Unfortunately, thanks to greedy pharmaceutical companies who charge our National Health Service extortionate amounts for drugs in recent years (£25,000 a year for a particular cancer pill for one person, for example) it is becoming harder and harder to maintain the same standard.
Having said that, it is still a good system. The rich still have their nice private healthcare if they want, and insurance policies are also available, same as you, if people choose (and can afford) it.
|
|
45. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:41 am |
Quoting AEnigma III: I think that is our point with your system. Wonderful healthcare for the rich...
As we were talking about the whole "system" then yes, actually, yours is the worst in the west.
Our system has many faults in the UK, but at least everything is free - from pills that cost several thousand pounds a week, to major heart surgery.
Our University hospitals and Cancer Charities don't do a bad job in research and developments either  |
Yes that is exactly what I was implying.
It's all about money. If you can't pay at desk 1 you're left out in the cold.
Not everyone can afford health ensurance and it's a disgrace to see that they are abandoned, left to die in the worst cases.
Actually I don't know what it's like right now but there are all kinds of horror stories. You need to pay more tax
|
|
46. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 01:11 am |
Maybe we could pull out some statistics as to how many people can't get treatment in the free healthcare system and how many die of preventable diseases... I wonder if we differ so much after all. I have seen both systems in my life and the system in the US is far better. Having said that, I can also see how many people are left without insurence and can't afford health care in the US. I think we should look for solutions within the system instead of trying something that is potentially another disaster.
|
|
47. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 01:27 am |
Interesting enough here is some good information..Healthcare comparison
Interested to see how much Turkey spends on pg.7
|
|
48. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 01:29 am |
I am very happy to know that even in case of losing my job and income I don't have to worry if I suddenly should need instant medical attention. Health treatment is VERY expensive.
While in my native country my spouse once cut his hand and we had to pay for the whole ordeal because he's a non-EU citizen. It was a ten minute consultation, they simple cleaned it and did a single stitch. We had to pay 175€ in cash and I never carry much cash around and I couldn't pay with my credit card there. They wouldn't even let me go to an ATM so my father ended up having to go all the way to the ER with the money. It's awful how some doctors apparently have their priotities. We would probably have gone bankrupt of it was a serious surgery. With state financed health care there's no need to worry about any of this. The doctors do their job and the patients get their treatment.
|
|
49. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 01:55 am |
Quoting libralady: Quoting teaschip1: Quoting libralady: Quoting teaschip1:
Why not, Oprah endorsed him and just look at his successful 2 year track record..
Hillary? God help us..... |
Tell us what they stand for, hopefully nothing like Bush - waiting.................... |
Obama, has no experience with foreign policy. He has even agreed to pulling men out of Iraq and invading Iran and going into Pakistan. Just what we need, two more countries to invade.
Hillary, she is just plain evil. She wants to socialize healthcare, brilliant but costly. Who the hell do you think is going to pay for it. You got it, the tax payers.. She has done absoultely nothing as a Senator for New York but wants to be our President. Not to mention her flip flop on many issues, including the Iraq war.
Ron Paul, I agree with most of his views except his stance on the UN and War Reparations..
My Pick McCain...
Experienced with Foreign Policy and National Security..Has been an active member of the Armed Services Committee since 1987. Experienced with Military Affairs..The only Republican I'm aware that has consistently supported cutting taxes and decreasing spending and has record of actually doing both. On the issues McCain is conservative but not so much to alienate moderates and independents. |
Actually your healthcare system could do with an overhaul, being the worst in the western world! |
Yes, and the UK could also get a better dental plan. No offense, but the men in the UK have horrific teeth..
|
|
50. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 02:05 am |
Quoting teaschip1: Yes, and the UK could also get a better dental plan. No offense, but the men in the UK have horrific teeth.. |
You didn't take it personally, did you?
|
|
51. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 02:09 am |
Quoting catwoman: Quoting teaschip1: Yes, and the UK could also get a better dental plan. No offense, but the men in the UK have horrific teeth.. |
You didn't take it personally, did you?  |
No not at all...
|
|
52. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 02:11 am |
Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting catwoman: socialized healthcare is evil. It's just a bad idea based on a good intention. |
Actually it is a very fair and good system. Unfortunately, thanks to greedy pharmaceutical companies who charge our National Health Service extortionate amounts for drugs in recent years (£25,000 a year for a particular cancer pill for one person, for example) it is becoming harder and harder to maintain the same standard.
Having said that, it is still a good system. The rich still have their nice private healthcare if they want, and insurance policies are also available, same as you, if people choose (and can afford) it. |
I agree with you AEnigma, the US healthcare system is a disgrace IMHO...( ) we do pay taxes, but it doesn't go to our healthcare...even then....the insurance industry lords it over us all dictation what type of healthcare we can have. I prefer homeopathy or some alternative methods, but my insurance will only allow what they deem fit.
Sometimes I feel like we are all guina pigs for the wealthy...knows what it is, Russian roulette?
Did you see Michael Moore's movie Sicko? I don't think healthcare should be a profit driven industry. Can't we do things just because they are good things to do? Even then the home care workers are seriously underpaid, but drugs cost a fortune. Get an aspirin in a US hospital and it costs a small fortune.
I went to an emergency room once with a fever of 104f/40.c....they put me on a stretcher with a thin blanket, took a chest X-ray...and it cost me $1,000..I did not even get an aspirin, or water...they sent me home and told me to rest and take some aspirins....
|
|
53. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 02:27 am |
Well most people in the U.S. don't go to the emergency room to get an aspirin.. I have worked in a hospital and will tell you the non-urgent medical conditions people come in with. You have people with major medical issues, heart attacks etc..then people who have paper cuts. That is why most co-pays are much higher for the emergency room than normal doctor visits or urgent care due to people abusing the urgency to be seen in the emergency room.
|
|
54. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 02:47 am |
It is quite obvious that the cost of health care is skyrocketting and getting out of control. Something really has to be done about it, but I hope that the solution will not be a socialized system.
|
|
55. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 09:38 am |
For those of you interested in American politics, here is an interesting site...
http://www.dehp.net/candidate/
I entered my preferences on the issues that are important to me and it matched perfectly with the WOMAN who I had planned on voting for.
|
|
56. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 05:44 pm |
Quoting girleegirl: For those of you interested in American politics, here is an interesting site...
http://www.dehp.net/candidate/
I entered my preferences on the issues that are important to me and it matched perfectly with the WOMAN who I had planned on voting for. |
This is a great resource. Thx, girlee!
|
|
57. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 06:08 pm |
Quoting girleegirl: For those of you interested in American politics, here is an interesting site...
http://www.dehp.net/candidate/ |
The winner is Kucinich, followed by Clinton! That's what I've been leaning towards!
|
|
58. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 07:49 pm |
Mine is (as if I am going to vote )
19 Kucinich
16 Richardson
15 Obama
15 Edwards
|
|
59. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 08:01 pm |
Quoting catwoman: Quoting girleegirl: For those of you interested in American politics, here is an interesting site...
http://www.dehp.net/candidate/ |
The winner is Kucinich, followed by Clinton! That's what I've been leaning towards!  |
Mine was Clinton, Kucinich and Edwards. Almost had me to the money...my leanings are Clinton then Edwards.
|
|
60. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 08:27 pm |
Quoting teaschip1: Well most people in the U.S. don't go to the emergency room to get an aspirin.. I have worked in a hospital and will tell you the non-urgent medical conditions people come in with. You have people with major medical issues, heart attacks etc..then people who have paper cuts. That is why most co-pays are much higher for the emergency room than normal doctor visits or urgent care due to people abusing the urgency to be seen in the emergency room. |
It is obvious, Teas, from a lot of the posts that a good many Americans have no idea what the healthcare industry is and why it is broken. What is scary is that, these are the very same people who vote for anyone who talks about a universal healthcare. Without understanding why healthcare is broken, how can we expect people to vote intelligently. I would love for everyone to work in a hospital for just a few days. Yes, taking care of people is a noble cause, BUT it is an EXPENSIVE cause. A lot goes into giving a patient an aspirin....I will give you an example...
The aspirin... A nurse can't just give you an aspirin when you ask for it...she must call the doctor first. The doctor must give his expert opinion and make an order for said aspirine and convey that to the nurse. The nurse must put an order into the pharmacy. The pharmacist must add appropriate charges and feed the information into a computer that will tell him/her whether or not there is a reaction between any other drug the patient is taking and the aspirin. The aspirin is then given to the patient. The nurse will now spend several minutes documenting the journey of the aspirin, documenting the outcome and any adverse reaction. Keep in mind that any mistake any of these people make will be up for enourmous legal scrutiny and these medical professionals probably have at least 20 years of advanced education between them. This is the plight of US medical. The problem is we have too much government involvement. Oganizations like JCAHO and Medicare/Medicaid that are run by the government are draining the healthcare system with their unrealistic demands.
There are government agencies regulating every activity in a hospital from nursing documentation to medical procedure. Hospitals are legally obligated to care for VERY patient who comes thru the door (See EMTALA Act), whether they can pay or not....whether they are a citizen or not. Here in Texas, 35% of all labor and deliveries are done for non-citizens and illegal immigrants who will never pay.
Healthcare is a mess because the government needs to get out of it!
|
|
61. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 09:36 pm |
Quoting Elisabeth: The aspirin... A nurse can't just give you an aspirin when you ask for it...she must call the doctor first. The doctor must give his expert opinion and make an order for said aspirine and convey that to the nurse. The nurse must put an order into the pharmacy. The pharmacist must add appropriate charges and feed the information into a computer that will tell him/her whether or not there is a reaction between any other drug the patient is taking and the aspirin. The aspirin is then given to the patient. The nurse will now spend several minutes documenting the journey of the aspirin, documenting the outcome and any adverse reaction. Keep in mind that any mistake any of these people make will be up for enourmous legal scrutiny and these medical professionals probably have at least 20 years of advanced education between them. This is the plight of US medical. The problem is we have too much government involvement. Oganizations like JCAHO and Medicare/Medicaid that are run by the government are draining the healthcare system with their unrealistic demands. |
It sounds like the US system has more of a problem with their "I will sue you" attitude, than it's medical care. This is, frankly, ridiculous.
In the UK, senior nurses have recently been given more responsibilities in this area - it has finally been respected that they are often as knowledgeable (if not more) in day to day care than the doctors.
|
|
62. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 09:39 pm |
Quoting Elisabeth: Quoting teaschip1: Well most people in the U.S. don't go to the emergency room to get an aspirin.. I have worked in a hospital and will tell you the non-urgent medical conditions people come in with. You have people with major medical issues, heart attacks etc..then people who have paper cuts. That is why most co-pays are much higher for the emergency room than normal doctor visits or urgent care due to people abusing the urgency to be seen in the emergency room. |
It is obvious, Teas, from a lot of the posts that a good many Americans have no idea what the healthcare industry is and why it is broken. What is scary is that, these are the very same people who vote for anyone who talks about a universal healthcare. Without understanding why healthcare is broken, how can we expect people to vote intelligently. I would love for everyone to work in a hospital for just a few days. Yes, taking care of people is a noble cause, BUT it is an EXPENSIVE cause. A lot goes into giving a patient an aspirin....I will give you an example...
The aspirin... A nurse can't just give you an aspirin when you ask for it...she must call the doctor first. The doctor must give his expert opinion and make an order for said aspirine and convey that to the nurse. The nurse must put an order into the pharmacy. The pharmacist must add appropriate charges and feed the information into a computer that will tell him/her whether or not there is a reaction between any other drug the patient is taking and the aspirin. The aspirin is then given to the patient. The nurse will now spend several minutes documenting the journey of the aspirin, documenting the outcome and any adverse reaction. Keep in mind that any mistake any of these people make will be up for enourmous legal scrutiny and these medical professionals probably have at least 20 years of advanced education between them. This is the plight of US medical. The problem is we have too much government involvement. Oganizations like JCAHO and Medicare/Medicaid that are run by the government are draining the healthcare system with their unrealistic demands.
There are government agencies regulating every activity in a hospital from nursing documentation to medical procedure. Hospitals are legally obligated to care for VERY patient who comes thru the door (See EMTALA Act), whether they can pay or not....whether they are a citizen or not. Here in Texas, 35% of all labor and deliveries are done for non-citizens and illegal immigrants who will never pay.
Healthcare is a mess because the government needs to get out of it! |
Very well said Elisabeth...The company I work for also specializes in medical malpractice claims. It is unbelievable how many lawsuits are out there from alleged victims. Some with reasonable suits and many with plain motives to make an almighty dollar. Then we all pay, due to the rising costs of malpractice insurance these physicians have to pay. So then it's passed on to the consumer.
|
|
63. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 09:45 pm |
Elisabeth, you are completely correct in what you said! The quality of health care in the US is very high and therefore, it costs enormously. There are two conflicting interests here: health care being a business - so it must make profit and a government's desire to provide health care to all people.
I think the main problem here are health insurence companies, which charge huge money and then try to pay for coverage as little as possible. This is part of the reason why so many middle class people cannot afford healthcare any more. So I think that in order to improve availability of healthcare - insurence companies should be regulated somehow.
Another reason for the high cost is the fact that a visit in a specialist's office is more expensive then a visit at a primary healthcare provider. However, the amount of family doctors is going down tremendously. There is basically no primary healthcare foundation in this country and this foundation is all that makes the healthcare in other countries better. So I think that if government wants to help, they should hire family doctors and establish this kind of network that would be affordable for low income families and beneficial enough for the doctors to want to do it. If a family doctor gives continuous care, many diseases could be prevented and more expensive procedures won't be necessary which will bring the healthcare spendings down.
However, if the government will simply impose a universal coverage on the current system, the system will simply collapse.
|
|
64. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 09:47 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III: It sounds like the US system has more of a problem with their "I will sue you" attitude, than it's medical care. This is, frankly, ridiculous.
In the UK, senior nurses have recently been given more responsibilities in this area - it has finally been respected that they are often as knowledgeable (if not more) in day to day care than the doctors. |
In some states yes, and it depends on the specialty. The US has a problem with the "I will sue you" attitude in general. But it's also good that doctors are held accountable.
Nurses also have a very high degree of independence here btw.
|
|
65. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 09:53 pm |
Quoting catwoman: Quoting AEnigma III: It sounds like the US system has more of a problem with their "I will sue you" attitude, than it's medical care. This is, frankly, ridiculous.
In the UK, senior nurses have recently been given more responsibilities in this area - it has finally been respected that they are often as knowledgeable (if not more) in day to day care than the doctors. |
In some states yes, and it depends on the specialty. The US has a problem with the "I will sue you" attitude in general. But it's also good that doctors are held accountable.
Nurses also have a very high degree of independence here btw. |
Unfortunately this "sue you" attitude is spreading across the Atlantic
|
|
68. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 10:04 pm |
Quoting Elisabeth: And if you let the government take over healthcare....lawyers will be deciding whether or not you get that heart surgery! |
I still prefer Clinton's idiotic solution than Obama's. She wants to mandate that everybody has an insurence, while Obama wants to give people money so that they can buy insurence!!! WTF!
|
|
69. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 10:06 pm |
Quoting catwoman: Quoting Elisabeth: And if you let the government take over healthcare....lawyers will be deciding whether or not you get that heart surgery! |
I still prefer Clinton's idiotic solution than Obama's. She wants to mandate that everybody has an insurence, while Obama wants to give people money so that they can buy insurence!!! WTF! |
Catwoman, I think all Americans can agree on one thing...I wish the elections where not about voting for the lesser of 2 evils!!
|
|
70. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 10:08 pm |
Quoting Elisabeth: Catwoman, I think all Americans can agree on one thing...I wish the elections where not about voting for the lesser of 2 evils!! |
Than I'd vote for Ron Paul, but good politicians don't win!
|
|
71. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 04:14 pm |
Quoting catwoman: Quoting Elisabeth: Catwoman, I think all Americans can agree on one thing...I wish the elections where not about voting for the lesser of 2 evils!! |
Than I'd vote for Ron Paul, but good politicians don't win!  |
I would too catwoman, however the American people just isn't ready for Ron Paul yet. They have the nanny syndrome, I'm afraid.
|
|
72. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 07:09 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting Elisabeth: The aspirin... A nurse can't just give you an aspirin when you ask for it...she must call the doctor first. The doctor must give his expert opinion and make an order for said aspirine and convey that to the nurse. The nurse must put an order into the pharmacy. The pharmacist must add appropriate charges and feed the information into a computer that will tell him/her whether or not there is a reaction between any other drug the patient is taking and the aspirin. The aspirin is then given to the patient. The nurse will now spend several minutes documenting the journey of the aspirin, documenting the outcome and any adverse reaction. Keep in mind that any mistake any of these people make will be up for enourmous legal scrutiny and these medical professionals probably have at least 20 years of advanced education between them. This is the plight of US medical. The problem is we have too much government involvement. Oganizations like JCAHO and Medicare/Medicaid that are run by the government are draining the healthcare system with their unrealistic demands. |
It sounds like the US system has more of a problem with their "I will sue you" attitude, than it's medical care. This is, frankly, ridiculous.
In the UK, senior nurses have recently been given more responsibilities in this area - it has finally been respected that they are often as knowledgeable (if not more) in day to day care than the doctors. |
The reality of the situation is most people do not sue, even though there are often times good cause for a lawsuite.
One case, a woman goes to her medical care provider, she is allergic to sulpha drugs, that fact is in her files, she also reminds them she is allergic, but still gets sulpha drugs. This woman did not sue, she sure did have a very legitimate case.
I personally know of many similar cases where no lawsuite was filed. The reality is a lawsuite is a long tedious process most do not want to get involved in. It is true, some people seem to make a profession out of it, but these people also have help from criminal entities who profit and assist in the process.
edited to add:
Add to all of this the fact that if you loose your job, you loose your insurance. If you have been treated for anything that condition is called a preexisting condition . This makes you almost a slave to your employment. Not a good system in MHO.
|
|
73. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 07:49 pm |
Alameda...After spending years in the clinical aspect of healthcare, I am now in an administrative position. Hospitals usually have at least 3-4 lawsuits going on at a time. Some of them (maybe 2 per year) are legitimate due to human error. Most of them are people looking for money.
|
|
74. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:12 pm |
Quoting alameda: Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting Elisabeth: The aspirin... A nurse can't just give you an aspirin when you ask for it...she must call the doctor first. The doctor must give his expert opinion and make an order for said aspirine and convey that to the nurse. The nurse must put an order into the pharmacy. The pharmacist must add appropriate charges and feed the information into a computer that will tell him/her whether or not there is a reaction between any other drug the patient is taking and the aspirin. The aspirin is then given to the patient. The nurse will now spend several minutes documenting the journey of the aspirin, documenting the outcome and any adverse reaction. Keep in mind that any mistake any of these people make will be up for enourmous legal scrutiny and these medical professionals probably have at least 20 years of advanced education between them. This is the plight of US medical. The problem is we have too much government involvement. Oganizations like JCAHO and Medicare/Medicaid that are run by the government are draining the healthcare system with their unrealistic demands. |
It sounds like the US system has more of a problem with their "I will sue you" attitude, than it's medical care. This is, frankly, ridiculous.
In the UK, senior nurses have recently been given more responsibilities in this area - it has finally been respected that they are often as knowledgeable (if not more) in day to day care than the doctors. |
The reality of the situation is most people do not sue, even though there are often times good cause for a lawsuite.
One case, a woman goes to her medical care provider, she is allergic to sulpha drugs, that fact is in her files, she also reminds them she is allergic, but still gets sulpha drugs. This woman did not sue, she sure did have a very legitimate case.
I personally know of many similar cases where no lawsuite was filed. The reality is a lawsuite is a long tedious process most do not want to get involved in. It is true, some people seem to make a profession out of it, but these people also have help from criminal entities who profit and assist in the process.
edited to add:
Add to all of this the fact that if you loose your job, you loose your insurance. If you have been treated for anything that condition is called a preexisting condition . This makes you almost a slave to your employment. Not a good system in MHO.
|
Alameda, have you ever heard Americans talk about not needing anymore lawyers. People find reasons for anything to sue someone. As I mentioned, I work for a company who handles medical malpractice claims. When you have a chance do some research in medical malpractice in the State of California for example and you will see the increase of claims against these hopitals and doctors. Years ago doctors could afford to have their own private practice..However, over the years they are forced now to work in groups..mostly because of the cost of their malpractice insurance.
Prexisting conditions only are considered if you have had a lapse of coverage for more than 90 days. This was put into law several years ago..
|
|
75. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:24 pm |
Quoting Elisabeth:
Alameda...After spending years in the clinical aspect of healthcare, I am now in an administrative position. Hospitals usually have at least 3-4 lawsuits going on at a time. Some of them (maybe 2 per year) are legitimate due to human error. Most of them are people looking for money. |
I don't doubt that Elisabeth, but my point was most do not sue. I could list numerous cases of negligence that were not pursued, but that would be tedious.
As for those who involve themselves in frivolous lawsuits, I would punish them to the full extent legally allowed, maybe even seeking an increase in allowable penalties....
|
|
76. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:51 pm |
Quoting teaschip1: Quoting alameda: Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting Elisabeth: The aspirin... A nurse can't just give you an aspirin when you ask for it...she must call the doctor first. The doctor must give his expert opinion and make an order for said aspirine and convey that to the nurse. The nurse must put an order into the pharmacy. The pharmacist must add appropriate charges and feed the information into a computer that will tell him/her whether or not there is a reaction between any other drug the patient is taking and the aspirin. The aspirin is then given to the patient. The nurse will now spend several minutes documenting the journey of the aspirin, documenting the outcome and any adverse reaction. Keep in mind that any mistake any of these people make will be up for enourmous legal scrutiny and these medical professionals probably have at least 20 years of advanced education between them. This is the plight of US medical. The problem is we have too much government involvement. Oganizations like JCAHO and Medicare/Medicaid that are run by the government are draining the healthcare system with their unrealistic demands. |
It sounds like the US system has more of a problem with their "I will sue you" attitude, than it's medical care. This is, frankly, ridiculous.
In the UK, senior nurses have recently been given more responsibilities in this area - it has finally been respected that they are often as knowledgeable (if not more) in day to day care than the doctors. |
The reality of the situation is most people do not sue, even though there are often times good cause for a lawsuite.
One case, a woman goes to her medical care provider, she is allergic to sulpha drugs, that fact is in her files, she also reminds them she is allergic, but still gets sulpha drugs. This woman did not sue, she sure did have a very legitimate case.
I personally know of many similar cases where no lawsuite was filed. The reality is a lawsuite is a long tedious process most do not want to get involved in. It is true, some people seem to make a profession out of it, but these people also have help from criminal entities who profit and assist in the process.
edited to add:
Add to all of this the fact that if you loose your job, you loose your insurance. If you have been treated for anything that condition is called a preexisting condition . This makes you almost a slave to your employment. Not a good system in MHO.
|
Alameda, have you ever heard Americans talk about not needing anymore lawyers. People find reasons for anything to sue someone. As I mentioned, I work for a company who handles medical malpractice claims. When you have a chance do some research in medical malpractice in the State of California for example and you will see the increase of claims against these hopitals and doctors. Years ago doctors could afford to have their own private practice..However, over the years they are forced now to work in groups..mostly because of the cost of their malpractice insurance.
Prexisting conditions only are considered if you have had a lapse of coverage for more than 90 days. This was put into law several years ago.. |
Well teaschip1...working in a legal firm would, of course, skew one's view of the situation. Everyone does not seek to sue.
|
|
77. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 11:18 pm |
Quoting alameda: The reality of the situation is most people do not sue, even though there are often times good cause for a lawsuite.
One case, a woman goes to her medical care provider, she is allergic to sulpha drugs, that fact is in her files, she also reminds them she is allergic, but still gets sulpha drugs. This woman did not sue, she sure did have a very legitimate case.
I personally know of many similar cases where no lawsuite was filed. The reality is a lawsuite is a long tedious process most do not want to get involved in. It is true, some people seem to make a profession out of it, but these people also have help from criminal entities who profit and assist in the process.
edited to add:
Add to all of this the fact that if you loose your job, you loose your insurance. If you have been treated for anything that condition is called a preexisting condition . This makes you almost a slave to your employment. Not a good system in MHO.
|
This is definitely true...
|
|
78. |
14 Sep 2008 Sun 03:26 pm |
Many have discoursed on what an Obama victory could mean for America. We would finally be able to see our legacy of slavery, segregation and racism in the rearview mirror. Our kids would grow up thinking of prejudice as a nonfactor in their lives. The rest of the world would embrace a less fearful and more open post-post-9/11 America. But does it not follow that an Obama defeat would signify the opposite? If Obama loses, our children will grow up thinking of equal opportunity as a myth. His defeat would say that when handed a perfect opportunity to put the worst part of our history behind us, we chose not to. In this event, the world´s judgment will be severe and inescapable: the United States had its day, but in the end couldn´t put its own self-interest ahead of its crazy irrationality over race.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/155117
|
|
|