Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Turkey

Turkey

Add reply to this discussion
Moderators: libralady, sonunda
Insulting Ataturk?
(48 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 5
1.       GatewaytoTR
26 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:09 am

Professor sentenced to 1 year in jail for insulting Atatürk
A professor was sentenced on Monday to one year, three months in jail for insulting the nation's founder, M. Kemal Atatürk, in a speech he made in İzmir a year ago.


The professor's sentence was suspended for two years by the court; however, if he commits the same offense one more time in this probation period, his sentence will be carried out. Atilla Yayla, a political science professor at Ankara's Gazi University and head of the Association for Liberal Thinking, was convicted of insulting the legacy of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, who founded secular Turkey from the ruins of the Ottoman Empire, and who is still revered nearly 70 years after his death. His portraits adorn walls in all government offices.

Yayla’s conviction comes as the country -- which aspires to join the European Union -- has been condemned for not doing enough to protect freedom of expression. Several prominent Turkish journalists and writers -- including Nobel Prize in Literature winner Orhan Pamuk -- have been tried under another law that bars insulting “Turkishness” and state institutions.

At the last hearing in July before yesterday’s reprise, Yayla had defended himself, saying to the court: “In that speech, I did not speak about Atatürk or his legacy. I talked about Kemalism. I said, ‘The republic is said to have saved us from the medieval ages; this is controversial.’ And as for the controversial nature of this argument, I said, ‘They [Europeans] will ask us why there are pictures and statues of Atatürk everywhere’.”

Murat Dinçer, Nalan Erkem and Raşit Sarıkaya, legal counsels representing Yayla, participated in yesterday’s trial. Dinçer said in his defense statement that it was not certain that his client had committed the crime of “insulting” Atatürk, and suggested that there was a considerable amount of reasonable doubt since the only written record of his client’s words from that date were reported by Yeni Asır daily correspondent Nuray Kaya, who later said she did not remember verbatim what Yayla had stated. “Other witnesses also said they believed they had listened to an academic speech with no words of insult being included.”

The counsel said they expected the judges to take the side of the Turkey of the 21st century with its humanist, contemporary, rational, modern and enlightened values that hold freedoms dear. The lawyers said they would appeal the verdict.

Yayla was charged after saying in a speech in 2006 that the era of one-party rule under Atatürk, from 1925-45, was not as progressive as the official ideology would have Turks believe. He said it was “regressive in some respects.” He also criticized the statues and pictures of Atatürk, saying Europeans would be baffled to see the portraits of just one man on the walls.

Yayla rejected the charges against him, insisting that he was not insulting Atatürk but questioning his legacy. He said he was also challenging the rigid way in which some followers interpret Atatürk’s principles as opposing liberal reforms and their imposition of strict secular laws such as the ban on headscarves at universities.

“As an academic, I must be free to think, to search and share findings,” Yayla said in a December 2006 interview with The Associated Press. “If Turkey wants to be a civilized country, academics must be able to scientifically criticize and evaluate Atatürk’s ideas.”

Gazi University fired Yayla over the controversy, but he was later reinstated. Yayla has also contributed articles to Today’s Zaman.


29.01.2008
News
Today’s Zaman

2.       catwoman
8933 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:23 am

Quoting GatewaytoTR:

Professor sentenced to 1 year in jail for insulting Atatürk
A professor was sentenced on Monday to one year, three months in jail for insulting the nation's founder, M. Kemal Atatürk, in a speech he made in İzmir a year ago.


3.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 10:02 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting GatewaytoTR:

Professor sentenced to 1 year in jail for insulting Atatürk
A professor was sentenced on Monday to one year, three months in jail for insulting the nation's founder, M. Kemal Atatürk, in a speech he made in İzmir a year ago.



4.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 11:25 am

Quoting thehandsom:

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting GatewaytoTR:

Professor sentenced to 1 year in jail for insulting Atatürk
A professor was sentenced on Monday to one year, three months in jail for insulting the nation's founder, M. Kemal Atatürk, in a speech he made in İzmir a year ago.





5.       Cacık
296 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 11:45 am

6.       azade
1606 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 11:51 am

As with the prosecuted mayors

SIGH

7.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 12:00 pm

insulting is never a right,but criticism one of the most main

8.       catwoman
8933 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 02:49 pm


Quoting MrX67:

insulting is never a right,but criticism one of the most main


You are like a broken record canim lol

9.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 02:53 pm

Quoting catwoman:


Quoting MrX67:

insulting is never a right,but criticism one of the most main


You are like a broken record canim lol

yea everybody says that,but not easy to change after 40's tatlım

10.       catwoman
8933 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 02:56 pm

Quoting MrX67:

yea everybody says that,but not easy to change after 40's tatlım


Ok... Let's say that I agree with you about the insult thing... but can you agree that the punishment for that should NEVER be prison? And that the government shouldn't be the one to be dealing with such issues?
Please agree with me!

11.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:03 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting MrX67:

yea everybody says that,but not easy to change after 40's tatlım


Ok... Let's say that I agree with you about the insult thing... but can you agree that the punishment for that should NEVER be prison? And that the government shouldn't be the one to be dealing with such issues?
Please agree with me!

i believe power of a real democracy on everything,but thats never give any right to insult to high values or vips of a country,so we all have to use our freedoms in objective limits,thats all what i know with my broken record way

12.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:04 pm

I AGREE. FLOGGING IS A BETTER IDEA !

13.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:08 pm

CANT GET LOVE, EVEN WHEN i AGREE WITH THE LADY...What is wrong with flogging?

How about a parking ticket?

14.       catwoman
8933 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:09 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

CANT GET LOVE, EVEN WHEN i AGREE WITH THE LADY...What is wrong with flogging?


Next time say it more clearly that you agree with me! lol

15.       catwoman
8933 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:13 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

How about a parking ticket?


You're getting better! Keep going... lol

16.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:20 pm

NEW YORK TIMES is doing it on purpose Catwoman. All they want is to give you a nervous breakdown.

Did you read their recent predictions about future of US, EU and Turkia?

17.       azade
1606 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:23 pm

What did they predict, the death of parking attendants?

18.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:26 pm

Wait for Alameda....She will come up with the whole article itself, if only to kill you of joy !

19.       oguzkaan_
2 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:35 pm

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting MrX67:

yea everybody says that,but not easy to change after 40's tatlım


Ok... Let's say that I agree with you about the insult thing... but can you agree that the punishment for that should NEVER be prison? And that the government shouldn't be the one to be dealing with such issues?
Please agree with me!

i believe power of a real democracy on everything,but thats never give any right to insult to high values or vips of a country,so we all have to use our freedoms in objective limits,thats all what i know with my broken record way



20.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:41 pm

The problem with democracy is that it can prevail between different interest groups, only if any one of the groups can get what they want - with no extensive harm to other groups. (a uniform nation, with different groups of roughly coinciding self interests)

There can be no democracy, if one group has to kill another - to reach what it wants.

21.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:43 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

The problem with democracy is that it can prevail between different interest groups, only if any one of the groups can get what they want - with no extensive harm to other groups.

There can be no democracy, if one group has to kill another - to reach what it wants.

thats name not democracy its name drinking blood

22.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:46 pm

Exactly !

23.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 03:58 pm

Quoting oguzkaan_:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting MrX67:

yea everybody says that,but not easy to change after 40's tatlım


Ok... Let's say that I agree with you about the insult thing... but can you agree that the punishment for that should NEVER be prison? And that the government shouldn't be the one to be dealing with such issues?
Please agree with me!

i believe power of a real democracy on everything,but thats never give any right to insult to high values or vips of a country,so we all have to use our freedoms in objective limits,thats all what i know with my broken record way




I suddenly remembered one of the deleted members..lol

24.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:36 pm

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???i bet you know well what meaning of high values and how them important for keep a real peace????

25.       ciko
784 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:38 pm

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???



yes and also i think i can insult him ..because i have enough reasons to insult but ...even on this site i am afraid to say anything bad about him..

26.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:41 pm

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???



yes and also i think i can insult him ..because i have enough reasons to insult but ...even on this site i am afraid to say anything bad about him..

would you like someone insult you to as his/her freedom???

27.       ciko
784 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:43 pm

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???



yes and also i think i can insult him ..because i have enough reasons to insult but ...even on this site i am afraid to say anything bad about him..

would you like someone insult you to as his/her freedom???



i would not care at all i know myself and i know i am a GREAT person lol

28.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:45 pm

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???



yes and also i think i can insult him ..because i have enough reasons to insult but ...even on this site i am afraid to say anything bad about him..

would you like someone insult you to as his/her freedom???



i would not care at all i know myself and i know i am a GREAT person lol

hmm then we both understand different things on a same word,really congrats for ur freedom idea

29.       ciko
784 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:49 pm

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???



yes and also i think i can insult him ..because i have enough reasons to insult but ...even on this site i am afraid to say anything bad about him..

would you like someone insult you to as his/her freedom???



i would not care at all i know myself and i know i am a GREAT person lol

hmm then we both understand different things on a same word,really congrats for ur freedom idea



what i mean is that...it is bullshit not to be able Ataturk when you are allowed to insult even Allah i dont think such taboos exist in any developed country!

30.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:51 pm

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???



yes and also i think i can insult him ..because i have enough reasons to insult but ...even on this site i am afraid to say anything bad about him..

would you like someone insult you to as his/her freedom???



i would not care at all i know myself and i know i am a GREAT person lol

hmm then we both understand different things on a same word,really congrats for ur freedom idea



what i mean is that...it is bullshit not to be able Ataturk when you are allowed to insult even Allah i dont think such taboos exist in any developed country!

first insulting never can be allowed behaviour whatever,why you not trying cristicsm instead of insult,thats not all hard,try and see

31.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:51 pm

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???



yes and also i think i can insult him ..because i have enough reasons to insult but ...even on this site i am afraid to say anything bad about him..

would you like someone insult you to as his/her freedom???



i would not care at all i know myself and i know i am a GREAT person lol

hmm then we both understand different things on a same word,really congrats for ur freedom idea



what i mean is that...it is bullshit not to be able Ataturk when you are allowed to insult even Allah i dont think such taboos exist in any developed country!

first insulting never can be allowed behaviour whatever,why you not trying cristicsm instead of insult,thats not all hard,try and see

32.       ciko
784 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:54 pm

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???



yes and also i think i can insult him ..because i have enough reasons to insult but ...even on this site i am afraid to say anything bad about him..

would you like someone insult you to as his/her freedom???



i would not care at all i know myself and i know i am a GREAT person lol

hmm then we both understand different things on a same word,really congrats for ur freedom idea



what i mean is that...it is bullshit not to be able Ataturk when you are allowed to insult even Allah i dont think such taboos exist in any developed country!

first insulting never can be allowed behaviour whatever,why you not trying cristicsm instead of insult,thats not all hard,try and see



ok ok i will try but i am not a good person as you..sometimes i cant help it

33.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:55 pm

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

Quoting MrX67:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?

you can critise sure,but we talking about insult i think???



yes and also i think i can insult him ..because i have enough reasons to insult but ...even on this site i am afraid to say anything bad about him..

would you like someone insult you to as his/her freedom???



i would not care at all i know myself and i know i am a GREAT person lol

hmm then we both understand different things on a same word,really congrats for ur freedom idea



what i mean is that...it is bullshit not to be able Ataturk when you are allowed to insult even Allah i dont think such taboos exist in any developed country!

first insulting never can be allowed behaviour whatever,why you not trying cristicsm instead of insult,thats not all hard,try and see



ok ok i will try but i am not a good person as you..sometimes i cant help it

no no,i bet ur better then me,just you looking on events a bit more funnier then me ,thats allanyway thats ur life,u r free to make whatever good for you or making happier urself

34.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 05:58 pm

Quoting MrX67:

first insulting never can be allowed behaviour whatever,why you not trying cristicsm instead of insult,thats not all hard,try and see



Yes but time has shown that criticism about Atatürk isnt allowed either, and is seen as insult. So.. If you doubt whether all his inkilap were good or bad, this is no insult. If you have arguements to state your opinion and keep away from nasty words, its called critisim. However, that is what puts people to jail or trial in turkey.

35.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 06:01 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting MrX67:

first insulting never can be allowed behaviour whatever,why you not trying cristicsm instead of insult,thats not all hard,try and see



Yes but time has shown that criticism about Atatürk isnt allowed either, and is seen as insult. So.. If you doubt whether all his inkilap were good or bad, this is no insult. If you have arguements to state your opinion and keep away from nasty words, its called critisim. However, that is what puts people to jail or trial in turkey.

honest i don't have enough information abouth court decissions about that,i will look for it,then i can answer your question DK

36.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 06:15 pm

theres full text of related law and i don't see any wrong in this text with law logic,pity my English doesn't enough for translate this text and i hope someone can translate it correctly >>>>>http://mevzuat.meb.gov.tr/html/7872_5816.html and if there are some mistakes on practise this law rules,thats the problem of who put in pratice this rule???

37.       libralady
5152 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 06:19 pm

If everyone in the UK who critised / insulted (not much difference in my opinion depending on how it is said or what is said) our Royal family or our Prime Minister (or past Prime Ministers) was sent to jail, then there would be hardly one walking our streets, the jails would be full.

I saw a small article about this in the Independent this morning, prison is a bit on the harsh side I would say!

38.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 06:36 pm

Yes, but there is a difference in what the law says and in how it is used by sollicitors and judges. They can easily 'proove' that their client is under the law, though actually he didnt do anything wrong..

39.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 06:38 pm

People, could you please not quote everything all the time? Just quote the message you reply to, and if its a long message the first sentence or the sentences you reply to will be enough. Its very annoying to read and makes threads unnecesarily long eventhough it is so easy to delete all unnecesary information.


Thanks in advance.


DK

40.       portokal
2516 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 06:40 pm

not insulting. apologizing.

41.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 06:50 pm

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?



Every body is free to do what he pleases, provided that he is aware some actions may be forbidden and punishable in some places.

What else do you want with this ciko ? Fried potatos? coke?

42.       portokal
2516 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 06:54 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Quoting ciko:

i wonder what are 'high values' ..and high according to what? who can define 'high' ? Ataturk may be a high value for you but for me he is not..so why would i avoid to criticise what he did?



Every body is free to do what he pleases, provided that he is aware some actions may be forbidden and punishable in some places.

What else do you want with this ciko ? Fried potatos? coke?



high value admits discussion.
higher knowledge respect and acceptance.
as for me, i would like (at the level of wanting) ayran and aubergine salad.

43.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 07:02 pm

I have a CD... Antient Turkish Music...prepared, played and sung by Hungarians, in Hungary.

It is beautiful music. But what is more interesting is what the Hungarians said (about Turks) in the little introductory write-up included.

I will tell you about it one day !

44.       portokal
2516 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 07:06 pm

my dear friend.
please do. lol

45.       catwoman
8933 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 09:15 pm

Quoting ciko:

what i mean is that...it is bullshit not to be able to criticize Ataturk when you are allowed to insult even Allah i dont think such taboos exist in any developed country!


46.       MrX67
2540 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 09:48 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting ciko:

what i mean is that...it is bullshit not to be able to criticize Ataturk when you are allowed to insult even Allah i dont think such taboos exist in any developed country!


not sure whats the criterions of a developed country??But i think to be atheist never a criterion to be developed,anyway respect all atheists even about their personal preferences.To believe on this or that never give any right to other one what we don't believe..And thats the biggest danger to see or look for superitory between beliefs...

47.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 10:58 pm

Are you talking about Turkey with 'developed' country?

Well yeah we have professional developed Dudus very good trained...

but as a country!! not at all!!

48.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 11:20 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Are you talking about Turkey with 'developed' country?

Well yeah we have professional developed Dudus very good trained...



...and you have men with very well developed moustaches

(48 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 5
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
Crossword Vocabulary Puzzles for Turkish L...
qdemir: You can view and solve several of the puzzles online at ...
Giriyor vs Geliyor.
lrnlang: Thank you for the ...
Local Ladies Ready to Play in Your City
nifrtity: ... - Discover Women Seeking No-Strings Attached Encounters in Your Ci...
Geçmekte vs. geçiyor?
Hoppi: ... and ... has almost the same meaning. They are both mean "i...
Intermediate (B1) to upper-intermediate (B...
qdemir: View at ...
Why yer gördüm but yeri geziyorum
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much, makes perfect sense!
Random Pictures of Turkey
Most liked