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THE WHITE PATH
(22 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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1.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 04 Feb 2008 Mon 11:32 pm

Islam and the West
Three decades ago, few would have predicted that the hottest topic of the early 21st century would be Islam. Now, not a single day passes in the Western media without news or comment about Islamist terrorism or calls for Islamic reform.

What's going on, exactly? Some hawks in the West talk about a "clash of civilizations." This is a perilously shallow idea. The world's 1.2 billion Muslims, some of whom live happily in Western societies, do not constitute a single entity that sees itself engaged in a war of civilizations.

Yet many Muslims have deep suspicions and worries about the West, and the way the West deals with Muslims deeply influences their thoughts. So it is imperative that Westerners understand the nature of Islam and its current crisis.

Islam is similar to Judaism in many ways: It is a strictly monotheistic, law-based and communal religion. Moreover, it teaches its followers that they have a special role in God's plan to guide the world. Early generations of Muslims saw the fulfillment of this promise in the grandeur of the medieval Islamic civilization. In the 16th century, however, the Islamic world began to lag behind the West.

With the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the last notable Islamic power, in the early 1920s, the Muslim world, especially the Arabic Middle East, entered into an acute state of crisis. Anticolonialist tendencies produced the ideology of radical Islam, which is quite different from Islam as a religion.

The great British historian Arnold Toynbee astutely likened the encounter between the modern West and the Islamic world to the relationship between the Roman Empire and the Jewish people during the time of Jesus.

According to Toynbee, the secularist dictators in modern Muslim countries and their secular elites - who look down upon Islam as the faith of the unwashed - are similar to the Herodians who associated themselves with the Romans to the point of self- denial. The modern Islamist terrorists, in contrast, are analogous to the Zealots who decided to wage a war on the Romans hoping that violence would bring about the Kingdom of God.

What the Islamic world needs today is to find a path that is different from Herodianism and from Zealotry. Muslims need to hear more messages that advocate neither a neglect of the divine nor bigotry in its name. They need to hear, one might say, something similar to the message of Jesus: that the Kingdom of God is a spiritual one, that godliness is more important than blind tradition, and that the law is made for man, not the other way around.

In other words, Islam needs to be saved from medieval traditions and modern political hatreds, and to be reunderstood as a God-centered civil faith that will have no trouble being a part of the open, pluralistic modern society.

Some Westerners doubt whether this is possible. But since the 19th century many Muslim intellectuals have been arguing for Islamic reform in order to eliminate authoritarian, bigoted or misogynist traditions. And such ideas are bearing fruit: Just last month, Turkey's official religious authority, the Diyanet, declared that it will remove statements that condone the mistreatment and oppression of women from the Hadith, the non-Koranic commentary on the words and deeds of the Prophet Mohammed. There are many other moves toward reform throughout the Muslim world.

All such reform attempts have to happen within Islam, of course, but Westerners can help, by invalidating the radical Islamist discourse.

This discourse has two main themes, one cultural, the other political. The cultural theme is that the West is a godless, corrupt civilization, a universal acid that destroys all faith and morality. Unfortunately, the long-established association between the West and the Herodians of the Muslim world has added much to this argument. Those rulers have also created a bad name for secularism, practicing it not as just separation of religion and state, but as suppression of the faith and the faithful.

This must change: Western believers and Muslims should do more to discover their common ground in Abrahamic monotheism and its moral values, not to mention in trade and economics. And the West should refrain from supporting anti-Islamist ideologues and former Muslim self-haters.

The political theme of the radical Islamic discourse is that the West, especially the United States and its closest allies, are leading a war on Islam. Unfortunately, every episode of abuse in Abu Ghraib or Guant�namo, and every civilian who has died in Afghanistan and Iraq, has added fuel to the fire. Recently, Israel's violent reprisals in Gaza and Lebanon have fanned this flame.

What the West can do is to insert a wedge between the radical Islamists and the peaceful Muslim majority, by making clear it has no problem with Islam as a religion and by emphasizing the moral values that Christians and humanists share with Islam - above all, respect for the individual.

The more the Muslim majority sees that Western values are compatible with theirs, the more they will see the anti-Western Zealots among them as fanatical troublemakers.

MORE ARTICLES FROM THE WHITE PATH:


Open Turkey and Its Enemies
The Scandal of The Kemalist Mind
Why Turkish Women Can't Drive
How Atatürk's Church Became an Ultra-Nationalist Base

The Turkish Blutfahne

Turkey's Veiled Democracy [A Must-Read Article]
Yes, Muslims are Indeed 'Christians'
Why is The AKP Reasonable on Kurds?
Turks, Jews and Arabs
Turkey's European Front
The Gospel According to Atatürk
Apostasy is a Right, Not a Crime
Ein Volk, Ein Ummah, Ein Muhammad?
God, Gold and Islam
PKK is Using Al-Qaeda's Strategy
The Wedge Strategy Turkey Needs Against Terrorism
An Open Letter to the Armenian Diaspora
Why the PKK Is Trying to Provoke a War
The Islamic Case for a Secular State -III-

2.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:43 am

So that is the fameous weird article collection !))))))))))))

3.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:02 am

Quoting AlphaF:

So that is the fameous weird article collection !))))))))))))



There's only one thing worse than a peanut:

hAlF a p (nut)

4.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:13 am

Quoting Roswitha:

So it is imperative that Westerners understand the nature of Islam and its current crisis.



Interesting article, but I can't help thinking that it sways towards what the west can do to help. Frankly, we are doing a great deal to embrace all cultures, but it is having little or no effect and extremism is increasing.

5.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:27 am

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting Roswitha:

So it is imperative that Westerners understand the nature of Islam and its current crisis.



Interesting article, but I can't help thinking that it sways towards what the west can do to help. Frankly, we are doing a great deal to embrace all cultures, but it is having little or no effect and extremism is increasing.



"but I can't help thinking that . . ." OH! please doooo!

If you try a little harder to embrace all cultures, your extremism may decrease

Good night zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

6.       catwoman
8933 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 03:45 am

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting Roswitha:

So it is imperative that Westerners understand the nature of Islam and its current crisis.



Interesting article, but I can't help thinking that it sways towards what the west can do to help. Frankly, we are doing a great deal to embrace all cultures, but it is having little or no effect and extremism is increasing.


If you try a little harder to embrace all cultures, your extremism may decrease


Aenigma's extremism?!!!!!??????????? Are you sure you quoted the right person?

7.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 10:58 am

Quoting Roswitha:

Some Westerners doubt whether this is possible. But since the 19th century many Muslim intellectuals have been arguing for Islamic reform in order to eliminate authoritarian, bigoted or misogynist traditions. And such ideas are bearing fruit: Just last month, Turkey's official religious authority, the Diyanet, declared that it will remove statements that condone the mistreatment and oppression of women from the Hadith, the non-Koranic commentary on the words and deeds of the Prophet Mohammed. There are many other moves toward reform throughout the Muslim world.



This really is a great article Roswitha. However, I think it is rather hopeful of the writer to suggest that any reforms in Turkey will be reflected in the rest of Islam. If anything, it will further the gulf between Turkish muslims and the rest of the muslim world.

I would like to know what the "other moves towards reform through the muslim world" are, as I had understood that fundamentalism had actually increased, in muslim states particularly.

8.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:01 am

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting Roswitha:

So it is imperative that Westerners understand the nature of Islam and its current crisis.



Interesting article, but I can't help thinking that it sways towards what the west can do to help. Frankly, we are doing a great deal to embrace all cultures, but it is having little or no effect and extremism is increasing.



"but I can't help thinking that . . ." OH! please doooo!

If you try a little harder to embrace all cultures, your extremism may decrease

Good night zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



Is this all you can reply to this article peace train? You think I have problems embracing cultures because I question religion on this website?

There is no racism in me at all. I support the fact that anyone, from any race or religion, can come to our country and their culture will be fully respected. However, I am losing hope of seeing any widespread integration within the muslim population of the UK.

I think what makes people rather tired of "embracing cultures" is when we realise that we are "respecting other cultures" in our country, and when we visit other countries we again have to "respect other cultures"!!!! If I go to work in Iran, I have to wear a headscarf, if an Iranian comes to work in the UK, they can wear what the hell they like!

Muslims actually have more freedom in the UK than in Turkey (which is at least 85% muslim!!!!)

9.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:30 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:


I think what makes people rather tired of "embracing cultures" is when we realise that we are "respecting other cultures" in our country, and when we visit other countries we again have to "respect other cultures"!!!! If I go to work in Iran, I have to wear a headscarf, if an Iranian comes to work in the UK, they can wear what the hell they like!

Muslims actually have more freedom in the UK than in Turkey (which is at least 85% muslim!!!!)


Haha
Because you brits have been very BED in the past to the world as far as respecting the other cultures are concerned. That is part of the reason why you have to show 'double respect' now. lol

But apart from the joke, I think AEnigma is telling the truth. The tolerance and respect to other faiths and other cultures has no comparison as far as the middle east countries and UK/western countries are concerned.
There is still much more room for improvement though!
And also, I think, popularity of extremism right now is quite closely related to Iraq war. (I would blame T Blair )

10.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:36 pm

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AlphaF:

So that is the fameous weird article collection !))))))))))))



There's only one thing worse than a peanut:

hAlF a p (nut)



Yes, there are the worst !
Missionary peanuts, constantly quoting from ZAMAN.

11.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:41 pm

Quoting peace train:


If you try a little harder to embrace all cultures, your extremism may decrease



what a crap!

12.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:41 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

And also, I think, popularity of extremism right now is quite closely related to Iraq war. (I would blame T Blair )



Absolutely and I am the first to condemn that war....but let's hear no bleating from muslims that they are less popular because of terrorist attacks like 9/11 and 7/7

13.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:42 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AlphaF:

So that is the fameous weird article collection !))))))))))))



There's only one thing worse than a peanut:

hAlF a p (nut)



Yes, there are the worst !
Missionary peanuts, constantly quoting from ZAMAN.


you meant islamic missionaries?

14.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:30 pm

Quoting Lapinkulta:

This site is for Turkish learners



Again... why are you here then?

15.       Lapinkulta
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:36 pm

to help people who need translation etc...

16.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:37 pm

oki doki

17.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:51 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

oki doki


lets change your nick to oki-doki

18.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:57 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting AEnigma III:

oki doki


lets change your nick to oki-doki



OKidokiIII

19.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 03:18 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting AEnigma III:

oki doki


lets change your nick to oki-doki



OKidokiIII


dont forget to inform qdemir and other lovely turks, they are so concerned about your nicks lol

20.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 07:30 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting AEnigma III:

oki doki


lets change your nick to oki-doki



OKidokiIII



OKidokiIII - the extremist?

21.       catwoman
8933 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 08:02 pm

Quoting Lapinkulta:

why these stupid racist and anti-islamist women here anymore, catwoman and Femme_fatal?...stop attackting muslims and Turks here in TC.This site is for Turkish learners not for your discussions...


You are repeating yourself cnm, should we be concerned that there's more to it than just a mood swing?
We heard you and took it into our consideration. You can sleep safely now, no need spamming every thread.

22.       catwoman
8933 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 08:03 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Absolutely and I am the first to condemn that war....but let's hear no bleating from muslims that they are less popular because of terrorist attacks like 9/11 and 7/7


+100000000000

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