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Closure case against ruling party shocks Turkey
(15 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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1.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 14 Mar 2008 Fri 11:01 pm

A chief prosecutor petitioned the Constitutional Court on Friday, demanding the closure of the ruling Justice and Development Party, accusing it of "being a hotbed of anti-secular activities," sending shockwaves through Turkey

The chief prosecutor of the Supreme Court of Appeals applied to the Constitutional Court on Friday evening demanding that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) be disbanded.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=136378


2.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 15 Mar 2008 Sat 09:07 am

The first word coming into my mind is 'oha!!!'

3.       lady in red
6947 posts
 15 Mar 2008 Sat 09:48 am

Quoting Roswitha:

A chief prosecutor petitioned the Constitutional Court on Friday, demanding the closure of the ruling Justice and Development Party, accusing it of "being a hotbed of anti-secular activities," sending shockwaves through Turkey

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=136378



Someone already opened this topic: http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_7_28612

4.       Cacık
296 posts
 15 Mar 2008 Sat 12:19 pm

Oha indeed - I welcome the investigation.

5.       Cacık
296 posts
 15 Mar 2008 Sat 12:24 pm

Quoting Cacık:

Oha indeed - I welcome the investigation.



Having said that - what are the reasonable alternative, CHP is useless, so are many of the others. AKP has done some good for the country it is true, better transportation, natural gas to more and more communities but it is crystal clear that they have a more religious agenda that they want to bring forth. Very tough situation for Turkey indeed. Very difficult.

6.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 12:36 am

AKP: TURKEY IS FACING A SHAME
The closure case had great repercussions in Turkey and in the world. Speaking on behalf of the AKP, deputy chairman Dengir Mir Mehmet Firat said Turkey's democracy is face to face with a big shame. "This appeal is a third-class legal understanding. This is an injustice against stability," Firat said.

7.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 01:18 am

Quoting lady in red:

Quoting Roswitha:

A chief prosecutor petitioned the Constitutional Court on Friday, demanding the closure of the ruling Justice and Development Party, accusing it of "being a hotbed of anti-secular activities," sending shockwaves through Turkey

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=136378



Someone already opened this topic: http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_7_28612



And someone deleted my post lol

8.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 02:47 am

Quoting Cacık:

Quoting Cacık:

Oha indeed - I welcome the investigation.



Having said that - what are the reasonable alternative, CHP is useless, so are many of the others. AKP has done some good for the country it is true, better transportation, natural gas to more and more communities but it is crystal clear that they have a more religious agenda that they want to bring forth. Very tough situation for Turkey indeed. Very difficult.


it is 'oha', because, in the end, it shows, after years and years of politics, democracy struggle, we are still having a laugable democracy.
That party has been closed 3 times before and they came back with greater popularity..
The party is the ruling party, it had 47% of the votes in the last general election..
What are they going to say to the half of the population?

A gigantic embarresment to turkish democracy..

9.       erdinc
2151 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 04:46 am

We are going to protect our secular republic against Islamists no matter what price it takes. This is a very happy event in our history that I'm proud of.

10.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 04:51 am

Please write more about it in detail if you wish. Thanks.

11.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 04:53 am

Quoting erdinc:

We are going to protect our secular republic against Islamists no matter what price it takes. This is a very happy event in our history that I'm proud of.


I dont believe closing their party is the solution.
If It was the solution it could have worked before.
But it did NOT.

This is an embarressing event for Turkey and Turkish democracy

12.       erdinc
2151 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 05:24 am

No, it works very good.

First we closed the Refah Party and then it sister party Fazilet was closed. Those two were more dark Islamist parties compared to the AKP.

After Refah and Fazilet was closed it was understood by everybody that there is no way an extremist Islamist party may be in lead in our country. Afterwards AKP was born. They are more of a kind of conservative party that shares some ground with the old extremists. Some of their members were transferred to AKP.

When you look into this topic you will see what I wrote almost a year ago:
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_7_16492_-1

On message #51 I said:

Quote:

We will fix the problems. Don't you worry. Those Arab admirers in Turkia can be sure they will pay for their actions.


Now it's pay time!

On message #84 I wrote the steps what those Islamists are following in order to change our country from a secular state to an Islamic.

Iran was not an Islamic state in the past. The Islamists became so strong that even the army could not stop them. We don't want the same to happen to us. They were not so lucky because their legal system did not stop the Islamists from changing their regime.

In Italy and Germany political parties have been closed down in the past. We have even more stronger reason to close down this one. And we will. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Besides closing the Islamist party there is a possibility that 71 people, including our president and our prime minister might be banned from politics for 5 years. I belive this is wrong. I think they should ban them forever. This is really entertaining news as you see.

Turks who have dedicated their lives to the secular Turkish Republic founded by Atatürk will not just sit there and watch it collapse. Those who are too naive to see the dangers need look no further than Iran. Just search their recent history. They are not a very old Islamic state.

This is not an embarrasment. It is a very welcoming news. Watching and experiencing those tough times as we are protecting our secularism with equal strength and determinism as the Islamists, is an honour for the children of Atatürk's Republic, like myself.

I'm very happy the system is protecting itself and not letting it to get worse to the point where our army must take charge. If this would happen those who cause the problems would have to pay with their lives.

I have told you what is really going on in my country. People who don't know our recent history very well, come with arguments that are isolated from historical background. For them it is hard to understand these events. They are surprised. There is nothing to be surprised here. The history of our republic, which is founded in 1923, is the history of fight between darkness and light.

13.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 11:52 am

I think if you check further back, the list is really long.
Apparently, we have closed 26 political parties since 1963.
I think it is a kind of record, which Turkish democracy keeps breaking again and again.

What we have to realize that this is nothing to do with the legal system at all. And unfortunately, I hate to write this, this latest incident shows that we NEVER had
a proper legal system. It is an undeniable proof how the entire jurisdiction in Turkey is in the politics, which is a complete different shame itself.

This is a simple argumant from my point: I am unable to swallow the idea of closing a party which had some votes from Turkish citizens.
I am personally against of all party closures. Because They dont work.

We closed the parties in 27 May 1960, what happened? 12 March 1970, what happened? 12 September 1980, what happened? 28 February, what happened?
We closed parties with the reasons 'Kurdishness, communism, sheria, dividing Turkey etc', what happened?
People gave them their vote, state closed them.

Now
Are we more democratic? do we have a system of freedom? do we have a system of human rights? did we get better quality of life? are we more developed?
We started with Greece, Portugal, Spain. Are we more developed then them right now?

Regarding Iran, Turkey is never going to be another Iran. And the reason is not that we have a bullying, above the people type secularist army and jurisdiction in Turkey.
Because Turkish people are against the sheria.

And the army's involvment and praising it another, kind of, insult to democracy itself. (if we check the recent history, people will find that the islamists' power in Turkey started to gain serious momentum, after 1980's military regime's idea of making islamists as a power base against the communism. Ironically, the army can be held responsible for this mess we have right now )

I am sure if Ataturk was alive he would be ashamed that people of Turkey are still thinking that army will be the savour of regime ultimately.
He would rather prefer, it would be people themselves protecting the republic. But unfortunately it is not the case.

Is it really just as simple as a fight between darkness and lightness?
I have doubths in that simplicity. It is soo black and white.
Unfortunately democracy does not come into a population by giving them the neceassary regime and laws or by just changing the names or by just saying to them 'you are a free democratic nation'. It requires some pain and some work done by its people and it takes time.

In the end, what we are talking here is a general election which was less than a year ago and a party who had the votes of 47% percent of Turkish people.
This is a huge insult to those 47%.
I can not and I will never accept any institution brushing off turkish people the way it has been done.

There is a political layer in Turkey and they are hanging on all the mistakes we have done in the past.
And sometimes you are thinking that 'wow, what an establisment. it is so strong that defying the time'. But it seems like that political layer in turkey is changing with the time too..It is getting more grotesk, more irrational, more laughable and more scary. It is like athletism and impassable records. When you just think that 'nooo it can NOT be broken'.
But we have the ability to surpass ourselves in this arena.
we always do.
we have managed to do worse.

14.       lady in red
6947 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 03:26 pm

Quoting caliptrix:



And someone deleted my post lol



I was wondering where that went???

15.       erdinc
2151 posts
 16 Mar 2008 Sun 06:40 pm

I don't know anything about deleted messages, just in case you were wondering.

Political parties in Turkia and Europe are operating with different rules. If we manage some day to change the rules on how leaders or parliament members are elected, then we will have less problems and party cloesures will drop. Currently party leaders are selecting the parliament members.

The public is voting but votes only decide on the number of MP's. It is the leader who decides on the names.

In other words, in our system a party leader selects those people that are going to obey him, support him, don't question him and elect him again as leader. This system is wrong. Gangs operate like this, not a parliament.

Most of the problems are caused by this corrupt system. This is also the reason why we have such a weak CHP today. Because nobody can question the leader and if somebody dares they will show the door. In fact they do.

Another problem is that parliament members are exempt from law enforcement even for serious crimes. Both the election system of MP's and their status agains the law are problems we need to address. When something goes wrong we request the same standards for parties as they have in Europe but we don't have the same rules applied to them.

The parliament is to blame because they didn't do their job for decades to proivide a fair election system where a leader is not God. The public is to blame because we didn't push the parliament to do their job.

If the political parties were regulated in a reasonable way, we would have more choices. Being choiceless is something very hard to deal. At one side you have a gang of corrupt politicians who want to fill their pockets and help their own supporters, at the other side you have another gang. Neither is any better.

We need to address the problems correctly. People voted for the AKP not because the support Islamism but because there is no better choice. We all knew that politicans are going to steal but we were hoping that those Islamists would maybe steal less. You need to be honest about this. This is how an average citizen things on politics in Turkia.

A small note to non-Turkish members who are unfamiliar with the Turkish law: There is a law that gives the members parliament an untouchable status in law. They are untoucable even for serious crimes.

They can beat somebody in public and police can not touch them. I'm serious. Once an MP slapped an air hosstess. They all carry guns. They are also untoucable to any crime you can imagine including all economical crimes.

Buying a bank and then giving away credit to your own companies is very common. When the bank goes bankrupt the state pays the money to account holders. The companies get away with it. We have seen half a dozen of such banks. The two mainsteam parties involved in these were DYP and ANAP. The same people who rubbed the banks out of money are free and even some are in politics today.

Whom are you going to vote for if there is so much corruption?

The parliament didn't establish good grounds for cleaner politics and people were choiceless. Corruption increased the power of Islamists. Now, the supreme court is going to clean the mess caused mainly by the parliament.

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