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Explanation please
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1.       cooldude
77 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 04:32 pm

I know this will have been covered before but I'm getting very confused with the words misin, müsün, misiniz, müsünüz.

I know they're words connected with would, could, can, are . Can anyone please give me examples of when to use misin or müsün etc.

I know the following

Aç misiniz = Are you hungry
Evli misiniz = Are you married

Thanks guys.

2.       bod
5999 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 05:27 pm

Quoting cooldude:

I know this will have been covered before but I'm getting very confused with the words misin, müsün, misiniz, müsünüz.

I know they're words connected with would, could, can, are . Can anyone please give me examples of when to use misin or müsün etc.

I know the following

Aç misiniz = Are you hungry
Evli misiniz = Are you married

Thanks guys.



These stem from mi which is the interrogative particle that forms yes/no questions......it is sort of a suffix in that it follows vowel harmony but is seperated from the preceeding word by a space.

It is used as in the following examples:

kahve isterin. - You want coffee.
kahve ister misin? - Do you want coffee?

bu bir köpeğim. - this is my dog.
bu bir köpek misim? - is this my dog?

araba gördü. - he saw the car.
araba gör müdü? - did he see the car?

3.       Elisa
0 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 05:45 pm

Quoting bod:

Quoting cooldude:

I know this will have been covered before but I'm getting very confused with the words misin, müsün, misiniz, müsünüz.

I know they're words connected with would, could, can, are . Can anyone please give me examples of when to use misin or müsün etc.

I know the following

Aç misiniz = Are you hungry
Evli misiniz = Are you married

Thanks guys.



These stem from mi which is the interrogative particle that forms yes/no questions......it is sort of a suffix in that it follows vowel harmony but is seperated from the preceeding word by a space.

It is used as in the following examples:

kahve isterin. - You want coffee.
kahve ister misin? - Do you want coffee?

bu bir köpeğim. - this is my dog.
bu bir köpek misim? - is this my dog?

araba gördü. - he saw the car.
araba gör müdü? - did he see the car?



Some mistakes there:

kahve istersin - you want coffee

bu (benim) köpeğim(dir) - this is my dog
bu (benim) köpeğim mi(dir)? - is this my dog?

arabayı gördü - he saw the car
arabayı gördü mü? - did he see the car?

4.       cooldude
77 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 06:08 pm

Thanks Guys for your prompt replies. What is the differance between misin(iz) & muzun(iz) then.



5.       Elisa
0 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 06:30 pm

Quoting cooldude:

Thanks Guys for your prompt replies. What is the differance between misin(iz) & muzun(iz) then.



That has everything to do with Vowel harmony. Click the link and check the vowel harmony lessons. It'll get clearer then

6.       cooldude
77 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 06:43 pm

Eliza darling I thought that as soon as I posted, what am I like hey.

7.       erdinc
2151 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 06:55 pm

In English to ask yes/no question we change the word order like this:

Ali has gone.
Has Ali gone?

In Turkish we cant do this. Changing word order doesnt create a question. Usually it doesnt make any difference. To make yes/no questions in Turkish we use the question suffix -mi.

Ali gitti.
Ali gitti mi?

The question suffix -mi has four forms. These are -mı, -mi, -mu, -mü. We pick the correct one according vowel harmonly rules.

Before picking the -mi suffix we look to the last vowel.
-mı comes after a and ı
-mi comes after e and i
-mu comes after o and u
-mü comes after ö and ü


Why is this so? What are the vowel harmony rules?

1. Major vowel harmony rule: A back vowel is followed by a back vowel and a front vowel is followed by a front vowel.

2. Minor vowel harmony rule: A flat vowel is followed by a flat vowel and a round vowel is followed by a round vowel.

In Turkish we have eight vowels: a,e,ı,i,o,ö,u,ü

Four of them are back vowels: a,ı,o,u
Four of them are front vowels: e,i,ö,ü

Four of them are flat vowels: ı,i,a,e
Four of them are round vowels: o,ö,u,ü

The words flat, round, back and front reflect to the movements of our mouth when we generate the sounds.

According these rules
1. a,ı,o,u is followed by a,ı,o,u
2. e,i,ö,ü is followed by e,i,ö,ü
3. ı,i,a,e is followed by ı,i,a,e
4. o,ö,u,ü is followed by o,ö,u,ü
5. According 1 and 3 > a,ı, is followed by a,ı
6. According 1 and 4 > o,u, is followed by o,u
7. According 2 and 3 > e,i, is followed by e,i
8. According 2 and 4 > ö,ü, is followed by ö,ü

From number 5,6,7 and 8 we can understand what suffix to add. The question suffix has only four forms and not eight: -mı, -mi, -mu, -mü. So at number 5 for instance a and ı was followed by either a or ı but we dont have a question suffix as "ma". So regarding the question suffix we say a and ı is followed by 'mı'.

5. According 1 and 3 > a,ı, is followed by -mı
6. According 1 and 4 > o,u, is followed by -mu
7. According 2 and 3 > e,i, is followed by -mi
8. According 2 and 4 > ö,ü, is followed by -mü

Example:
Ali akıllı mı? (the last vowel before the question suffix is ı and we know that ı takes mı
Ali doktor mu? (the last vowel before the question suffix is o and we know that o takes mu)

Exercise:
Ali çalışkan ...?
Ali kör ...?
Ali Istanbullu ...?

Below you see the personal suffixes. As you see the third person singular has no personal suffix. Therefore we say:

"Ali doktor mu?" or "O doktor mu?" (Is HE a doctor?)

But if I want to use for instance the second person singular, then I should say:
"Sen doktor muXXX?" Here I need to add a personal suffix.

Which one should I add? There are four: -sın, -sin, -sun, -sün

Remember, the last vowel counts. What is the last vowel in "Sen doktor mu...?" It is the 'u' in 'mu'. What do I use after u? Look at number 6 above. I use either o or u. But There is no version with o. So I use -sun:

"Sen doktor musun?" is the correct sentence.
Second person plural would be:

"Siz doktor musunuz?" (mu+sunuz)

Personal suffixes:
Singular
1. : -(y)ım, -(y)im, -(y)um, -(y)üm
2. : -sın, -sin, -sun, -sün
3. : --
Plural
1. : -(y)ız, -(y)iz, -(y)uz, -(y)üz
2. : -sınız, -siniz, -sunuz, -sünüz
3. : -lar, -ler

8.       bod
5999 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 07:57 pm

Quoting Elisa:

arabayı gördü - he saw the car
arabayı gördü mü? - did he see the car?



görmek doesn't take the accusative case does it ???

9.       mltm
3690 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 08:28 pm

Quoting bod:

Quoting Elisa:

arabayı gördü - he saw the car
arabayı gördü mü? - did he see the car?



görmek doesn't take the accusative case does it ???



if it's a definite car, it takes.

Bu rüyayı her gece görüyorum.
I see this dream every night.

Geceleri rüya görüyorum.
I see dreams at nights.

10.       bod
5999 posts
 06 Mar 2006 Mon 08:31 pm

So araba gördü translates as "he saw a car" not "he saw the car" ???
Or do we need to say bir araba gördü ???

11.       cooldude
77 posts
 07 Mar 2006 Tue 01:28 pm

Erdinc çok tes¸ekkür ederim.

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