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Istanbul beneath my wings
(29 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
1 2 3
1.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 02:26 am

This film is the story of the first man to fly. It was in the 17th Century during the reign of Murat IV, a period of ottoman history when there was much bloodshed that Hezarfen Ahmet Çelebi flew from Europe to Asia over the Bosporus on wings of his own making. Istanbul beneath My Wings, using the story of this flight as a vehicle, describes the conflict between individual freedom and authority, between those who desire to make progress towards civilization and those in positions of authority who resist all innovation and development. Hezarfen has managed to get his hands on Leonardo da Vinci´s drawings relating to human flight. In order to decode Leonardo´s coded instructions, Hezarfen takes the owner of manuscript, an Italian slave girl, into his home. Nothing can stand in front of the universality of love and knowledge.

 

http://www.umutsanat.com.tr/english/yapimlar/sinema.aspx

2.       MessengeR
38 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 04:20 am

yes istanbul beneath my wings very beautiful film. the big love story. and i like soundtrack.

 

Gülay - Aşk

 

Gülay - Love

 

Önce kuş olduk uçtuk semaya
sonra vurulduk düstük sevdaya

Yandik atesten korlar misali
öyle derindi vardik mihraba

Aski ilahi saydik cihanda
özden bulustuk fani mekanda

Ayrilsa yollar güller savrulsa
susmaz ki aşka aşik gönüller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33IG_6q613U

 

 

This song for my love. seni seviyorum.

3.       MessengeR
38 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 04:22 am

Önce kuş olduk uçtuk semaya
sonra vurulduk düstük sevdaya

Yandik atesten korlar misali
öyle derindi vardik mihraba

Aski ilahi saydik cihanda
özden bulustuk fani mekanda

Ayrilsa yollar güller savrulsa
susmaz ki aşka aşik gönüller

4.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 04:46 am

Too bad I can´t get this movie here in America!

 

Absolutely beautiful, thanks for sharing youtube piece!!!!!!

5.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 05:07 am

I think it is a bad movie with wrong ideas about Ottoman history

6.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 09:41 am

 

Quoting caliptrix

I think it is a bad movie with wrong ideas about Ottoman history

 

 but great music!!!

7.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 11:22 am

 

Quoting MarioninTurkey

but great music!!!

 

great movie with an accurate depiction of the Ottoman empire.

8.       longinotti1
1090 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 11:28 am

 

Quoting caliptrix

I think it is a bad movie with wrong ideas about Ottoman history

 

 The story always confused me.  I Would like to understand it better.  You can PM if you wish.

9.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 05:38 pm

same here, you can pm me, if somebody wishes too, that would be great!

10.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 07:36 pm

Basically, it says one of the sultans were a gay/homosexual, but there is no proof about it.

11.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 08:08 pm

 

Quoting caliptrix

Basically, it says one of the sultans were a gay/homosexual, but there is no proof about it.

 

I think you can find many historical source that some of the sultans were gay..(who was the sultan at the time? Murat IV? I will check)

But does it matter really?

12.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 10:44 pm

there is no reference in this movie to homosexuality as far as I remember, but it`s true that many ottoman emperors were homosexual. there is a big deal of proof about this.

13.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 11 Sep 2008 Thu 11:07 pm

 I am and also the others here will be curious, tamikidakika:

 

Kindly send an explanatory  link. Thanks.

 

14.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 12:29 am

 

Quoting Roswitha

I am and also the others here will be curious, tamikidakika:

 

Kindly send an explanatory link. Thanks.

 

 

I don`t have time to look through the internet for that, but it`s well proven in the book "Osmanli`nin Kanli tarihi" by Ismail Metin. I don`t think you can find it in English though.

 

http://www.netkitap.com/kitap/2607/osmanlinin_kanli_tarihi.htm

 

15.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 12:38 am

I too have no time like you, when  I searched the internet, this popped up:

 

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/01/17/Floridian/A_city_comes_out.shtml

 

There is one famous painting, see before

16.       longinotti1
1090 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 09:13 am

Somehow this thread turns away from the subject of flying across Boshporus:

(Do want to see the movie!)

 

Here is my view.   When I came to Istanbul in 2006 and visited Galata Tower, I learned of the flight.

Given that it succeeded.   Had Sultan exploited this accomplishment to the maximum.   The world would be very different.

 

(Airpower in the 15th century! Flight changed warfare in the 20th century).. 

 

I would not be learning Turk because I would have beenraised with it. I am OK with that.

 

(Caliptrix:  I have no knowledge of the Sultans, but I think Rulers do what they chose to do, as we all do.   American Presidents did whatever they did.  And here in the USA their conduct or misconduct is a source of great entertainment that is just as it is!  fact or fiction, who knows, but I know it is entertainment!)

 

Now Ros, wasn´t your graphic image just a little,  a tinsy tiny bit,   maybe, over the top?

17.       longinotti1
1090 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 11:19 am

 

Quoting Roswitha

 I am and also the others here will be curious, tamikidakika:

 

Kindly send an explanatory  link. Thanks.

 

 

 

 I saw bored people ın osmanlı dress lookıng at the  a young person holdıng a snake.

 

Roswitha, what point, (that you are willing to explain) are you making?.  (Yes I deleted the image which I felt carried connattions that I refuse to pertuate!)

18.       lady in red
6947 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 11:31 am

 

Quoting Roswitha

 I am and also the others here will be curious, tamikidakika:

 

Kindly send an explanatory  link. Thanks.

 

 

 

 What exactly does he need to explaın? 

19.       longinotti1
1090 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 12:29 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 What exactly does he need to explaın? 

 

 The picture posted into the number 13 reply.. Small person with snake?  What was its point?

20.       Joyce111
276 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 02:36 pm

I assume the small person with the snake is a boy, and he´s naked. Being watched by adult men (Sultans?). The point being that maybe some of the Sultans were homosexual

21.       lady in red
6947 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 03:22 pm

Quoting lady in red:

What exactly does he need to explain?

Quoting longinotti1

 The picture posted into the number 13 reply.. Small person with snake?  What was its point?

 

 Oh sorry - I thought Roswitha was referring to tamikidakika´s previous post:

 

´there is no reference in this movie to homosexuality as far as I remember, but it`s true that many ottoman emperors were homosexual. there is a big deal of proof about this´.

I didn´t think the picture post needed explanation but was not sure of its relevance to the original post.

22.       girleegirl
5065 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 04:48 pm

 

Quoting Roswitha

I too have no time like you, when  I searched the internet, this popped up:

 

 

 {#lang_emotions_lol_fast}{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

Sorry but that cracked me up!

23.       girleegirl
5065 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 04:49 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 

 Oh sorry - I thought Roswitha was referring to tamikidakika´s previous post:

 

´there is no reference in this movie to homosexuality as far as I remember, but it`s true that many ottoman emperors were homosexual. there is a big deal of proof about this´.

I didn´t think the picture post needed explanation but was not sure of its relevance to the original post.

 

 Sure looked that way to me too.

 

24.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 05:23 pm

I have removed the picture in question. You are right, had nothing to do with my original post.

25.       gencturk
326 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 07:26 pm

 

Quoting tamikidakika

the book "Osmanli`nin Kanli tarihi" by Ismail Metin.

 

The books title reveals the subjectivity of the book. "Bloody History of The Ottomans" They were not just gays but also bloodthirsty. There are enough orientalist views already that describes the Ottomans were bad guys.

I think this is an extreme idea to an ordinary Turk. I mean one should think twice before asking this kind of question to an ordinary turk.

 

Quoting Roswitha

Too bad I can´t get this movie here in America!


and the movie, serves the same idea.you can order the movie from U.S.A.: http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=VI343017HC272
The song is the part that I only liked about the movie.
I would recommend "Hacivat Karagöz Neden Öldürüldü?" http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=VI341005EH549

But if you want to know the real story you should check this link:
http://www.osmanli.org.tr/en/index.php
and the person you should search for Prof. Dr. Ahmet Akgündüz

26.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 12 Sep 2008 Fri 08:16 pm

Gencturk, if you ever come across this book by Lynne Thornton, you will see the more European Orientalists paintings with different themes of the Orient:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/2867700604/ref=sib_dp_pt/026-3188092-7656424#reader-link

 

Canli, and this one is for you:

 

http://www.travellersinegypt.org/archives/2004/12/a_cairo_bazaar_the_dellal.html

 

 and this for my British friends:

 

http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/britishorientalistpainting/

 

At the end of the 19th century numerous painters succumbed to the charms of the Orient. Travel to distant lands was easier, and artists brought back voluptuous images filled with sun and colour. The noted specialist Lynne Thornton has studied almost 150 painters, from Delacroix to Ziem. Her fine book Les Orientalistes, Peintres Voyageurs features numerous lesser known masters and is an essential reference work for collectors. It is also a marvellous invitation to travel

 

27.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Sep 2008 Sat 12:16 am

 

Quoting gencturk


The books title reveals the subjectivity of the book. "Bloody History of The Ottomans" They were not just gays but also bloodthirsty. There are enough orientalist views already that describes the Ottomans were bad guys.

I think this is an extreme idea to an ordinary Turk. I mean one should think twice before asking this kind of question to an ordinary turk.

 

What is the extereme idea Gencturk? and why should people ´think twice´ asking to any ordinary Turk? 

why do you think we/turks should be offended  if we hear  ´some of ottoman sultans were GAYS´?

I think you are making the most fundemantal mistake we generaically do and that is ´judging historical events and people with the moral values of the day we live´ 

Let me give you some examples coming into my mind at the moment: 

 

When Sultan Yavuz marched towards Caldiran to fight Shah Ismail of Iran, he chopped off every alevites head, he encountered from Istanbul to the Battle field. 

Grand vizier Kuyucu Murad Pasa´s nick name Kuyucu was given to him because he filled the wells with the heads of alevites during ´Celali rebellions´.

But, of course, at the same time in Europe, they were burning the women alive for the sake of God. 

When Fatih captured istanbul in 1453, the blood flow all over street drains for 3 days (3 days was the time given to the soldiers as ´booty time´ ) But Europeans were not much that different as Spanish were butchering the natives in Americas a bit later.

When we opened our arms to jews from inquisitions in spain, we purely did it with the principle of ´my enemy´s enemy is my friend´ and we gave them only imigrant rights.

 

And about homosexuality:

Istanbul´s hamams were used to meet young boys and have sex with them by some of the ottomani elite  until the 19th century.

The "tellaks" (young boys who helped men to have a bath) did not only work for washing the men.They also served as male prostitutes

There is a book in the Ottoman archives called "Dellakname-i Dilkusa" (The Record of Tellaks). . It tells about the most famous "tellaks" of Istanbul. The way they serve their customers, their price, how many times they can make you reach orgasm, the rate of their beauty and many more details are mentioned in this book.

 

Ottoman Literature is called "Divan Literature". In Divan Literature there are many poems written by male poets about their male lovers. These poems were about how beautiful these boy lovers were. None of these the poet talks about his boy lover and he complains that his beard is starting to grow and because of this his beauty is going away. Boys were maybe kind of substitutes for women who had smooth skin with no hairs. 

Actually sex with boys were not legally forbidden and even the sultans were engaged in sex with male boys.

Some of the sultans had famous affairs with boys. 

There was even a palace for boys in Bursa. 

 

But GencTurk, tell me, why all above should offend any Turk? In the end, it is just "History" .

 

28.       gencturk
326 posts
 13 Sep 2008 Sat 01:55 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

What is the extereme idea Gencturk? and why should people ´think twice´ asking to any ordinary Turk? 

why do you think we/turks should be offended  if we hear  ´some of ottoman sultans were GAYS´?

I think you are making the most fundemantal mistake we generaically do and that is ´judging historical events and people with the moral values of the day we live´

...

...

But GencTurk, tell me, why all above should offend any Turk? In the end, it is just "History" .

I am saying the reality that is not what should be or what shouldn´t be. And that is so expected because we are muslims and the Ottomans were muslims, actually they have the caliphate  that is Leader of all muslims. And one of the biggest sin in islam is homosexuality. The quran says Lut nation had been perished by god because of this sin. So that would be normal reaction. if you dont belive me go and ask people on streets what they think about their ancestors gayness! 
I dont belive that values of the day. I believe in eternal values. Values never changes but people change. Homosexuality is not only a modern day phenomenon. And I think being gay in modern era is more usual than passed ages.

Anyway I didnt know there is a book in our archives related the issue. I will search for it.

 

29.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 13 Sep 2008 Sat 04:31 pm

Gencturk, thank you for sharing this link about the People of the Lut. I enjoyed viewing your link of the Perished people. Good research!

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