I am sure that it is all over the TV news that Israelian Army is killing people in Gazza...

According to the news the deathes are over 200 people and more than 500 injuries...

Near this bad issues i am wondering where is our "humanistic" and "hellenist" members, i was wondering if they are still under the pink clouds of Santa? where they were wild like a puma over Turkish government when there was a single little issue related to terrorist events...

Anyhow... I just condemn what Israel doing over people in Gazza!!! thats all i can do for now...

 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-attacks-gaza-more-than-140-reported-killed-1213304.html

Scores dead in Israeli raid on Gaza

At least 195 Palestinians, including women and children, have been killed in an Israeli aerial bombardment on Hamas security installations.

Israel launched air attacks across the besieged Gaza Strip on Saturday, threatening that further operations would be carried out.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/200812279451509662.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/27/israelandthepalestinians

Israeli F-16 bombers have pounded key targets across the Gaza Strip, killing more than 200 people, local medics say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm

PS: Ý´ve moved it to the announcement forum,i belive those 200 people ´so far !!!´ deserved to be announced died

I agree with you Canli, I heard on the news last night that Isreal was saying if Hamas didn´t stop with the missle attacks Israel, would attack. It looks like they did.

U.S. blames Hamas for cease-fire break

What a nightmare! There isn´t much on the news about it here. I have had the radio on all day and there was no news about it. I just turned the TV on, CNN to be exact, and nothing. They are talking about sludge and weather. I have only had CNN on for a few minutes. All in all I´d say there has been little coverage here. If you go to Google News, it´s on the top of the news there, but one has to have the computer on and looking at Google news to see. I just learned about this here now.

what a good excuse for bombing a city full of civilians.

hamas is a terrorist organization but is israel any different from hamas? what is the difference if it murders civilians.

can you imagine Turkey`s bombing the kurdish villages in the east because kurdish terrorists kill civilians?

That`s exactly what Isreal and America is doing in the ME. These are both terrorist states.

but as a matter of "fact" if they kill muslims they can`t be called terrorists.

I didn´t say I agree with it, I´m just reporting what I heard here. If this is all that I have heard, I would guess most in the US have not even heard about it yet. There was a very brief announcement on CNN a few minutes ago. It isn´t being covered very much here.

found this from Al Jazeera

"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind. "

 Yes,much difference im afraid,one is invading a country...no let me say erasing it ...ohh no let me correct

erased a country,and now trying to erase its people

And the other is defending its country,and called terrorist organization for that !

Shame,shame...shame what a shame we live it !

if it does that by killing civilians, it`s still considered to be terrorist. I think debating over whether hamas is terrorist or not is pointless, because it is terrorist, just like israel.

 The whole world is already blind alameda...when it wish to be

Gaza is not a new event,people were already suffering and the world skipping an eye,they are not to be blamed

They are already the victims more than 60 years ago !

 Are you watching it tami ?

Are you watching that man standing beside the collapsed house while he is helping a wounded man and calling for another man covered with dust and blood telling him to say Þahada ?

And the man raising his finger saying it ?

Are you watching the woman crying ,screaming her heart out and saying 3,3,all the three.2 daughters and son...haram..haram ´not fair...not fair..´

Hasbi ALLAH ve nema elvakil...

Are you watching it ?

Ý am watching it now...so yes...you are right...

Ýts pointless

I agree with you Canli, however the tactics now being used are not working.

Many are disabled, many die horrible death, hate grows, more revenge...and on it goes.

 Ã agree too

Edited: 250 Þahit so far and 700 wounded

Ýna lillahi ve ina ilayhi raceon

How does this change the fact that hamas is a terrorist organization? by praising hamas you`re just discrediting your own argument.

 That is exactly what i meant...im not arguing anything,nor debating

Ýn time like that,its pointless to debat if defending your country with very poor tools,even sometimes targeting your own people on the process by mistake makes you a terrorist organization or not.

 Nice.......

It was a joy to see all the wonderful Christmas messages from our Turkish members....not.  Compare that with all the bayram wishes we send and I think we get the idea of the degree of hate on this site...

Yes it is truly horrible what is happening there.  What can I say?  Do you want to shoot me?

"not all the muslims are terrorists but all the terrorists are muslims"

don`t you know this "fact"?

No dear, no body wants you to shoot yourself...

And my comments had nothing to do with wishing merry christmas... I just sarcasticly talked about your being "sensitive" on terror and war issues... That was all...

Happy new year anyway...

what is the deal with christmas? I personally don`t celebrate the religious days if you`re trying to be sarcastic.

a celebration message from a fellow Brit!

 There is no hope of ever trying to make you understand anything.  You are a wise old man in your twenties and have nothing else to learn.  Your mind is fixed and inflexible.

Maybe you will regret it someday ..

 I wont even give you the time for me to easily search google and find many such messages to us from muslims...

Your comments were sarcastic yes... thank you.

Shall I be such a child as you and NOT wish all insenstive Turks a happy new year?

go ahead and find some, but I have no idea what you will prove with them. Did I say muslims don`t do such things?

This thread is full of little boys who learned only to hate.... 

why don`t you have some rest? isn`t it too late there?

 Because you see other´s behaviour as indicative of Turkish Class?  I never saw such hatred on this site actually, you are paranoid and extremist as those westerners you condemn...

As you wish sweetheart, I am sure you are missing the times you were a child... go ahead you got a chance to make it now...

I dont need to prove anything to you, if i wished my friends merry xmas or not...

But i waited 2-3 days if people would talk about anything going on Gazza... No one did...

Hello!!! No surprises!!!

You make me laugh - you see EVERY subject as east v west.  As far as I am aware, Femmeous is the only member who supports Israel in any arguement on this subject (and she is not a "westerner"   You find it so hard to understand how others can be open minded and even agree with your arguments sometimes. 

Time to step outside of your closed little minds

Why are you getting angry, when the truth hurts you?

that picture wasn`t meant to argue that you`re the same,  it was rather meant to mess with you and it did

 Perhaps if you look at who has been logged in, you will see that most people are still spending time with their families right now.

 It didn´t "mess with me"!!

You just prove to me that arguing with extremists like you is completely pointless...

When you have nothing to say you are going on insulting you will never change...

I dont need to check anything... so what you mean? You only spend time with your family, when it is Christmas? That is ridicilous...

I don`t see anything wrong about being an extremist, since I`m always right

 I believe, this is the first personal attack I issued to you.

Spoken like a true extremist.  I, on the other hand, would not claim to be "always right" until the day I die.

Learning is a wonderful thing

hahaha, sui`s first time! welcome to the club.

How soon you forgot your namings at me... Nevermind...

I just said what needed to be said...

This is how it goes sweety... Powerful, rich countries do whatever they want... the rest only watches... this was always like this and it will be always like this...

 When have I EVER issued a personal attack to you before tonight? 

 You are paranoid freaks who just insist that the rest of the world hates you.

Well done - you achieved your aim...

Goodnight...

This is a very silly comment as I am well aware of the floods of people who return to their hometowns during bayrams.

you answered your own question

 It is you who insist to say paranoia... just look at the world and what is going on at last 7-8 years... that would be enough...

good night to you too...

Edit: I have no problems with people who lives in east or west... As i have lots of foreigner friends... My problem is with sick politicians only thats all...

We dont blame all the east for 9/11 and 7/7 - we understand that SOME of you were as shocked as us.

However, you paranoids will ALWAYS think that we support what happened in Iraq, even though we are as shocked as you.

A good example of what I was talking about. 

 If your problems were with sick politicians you would not have made the sarcastic comments you did that members were away with families for Christmas...

you`re too late catwoman, sorry. the debate is over and I`m the winner!

I love you too!

Look at the posts we shared here tonight... I never said or commented on which side you support or not... And also it is none of my business...

The case was different... seems you were far away to understand... thats not a problem either...

My point was here only... when you were bullying and creating chaoses about what happened in Turkey, in East mostly... how sensitive you were that you missed informing us here about what happened in Gazza...

Anyway... lets continue by via pm, its irritating me to make busy this thread with this... i feel kinda disrespectfull to what happens there...

 No not bullying, just commenting on your nice little thread shared by paranoids.  I see the main three people who would normally post such a thing (regarding Gaza) have not logged on since before Christmas so maybe that is a logical explanation for there being no mention of it here yet.

However, I see you prefer to view it otherwise.....   Continue via PM?   No thanks!

Awww poor little baby ya!  You are running to mummy because someone "bullied and created chaos" when the subject was Turkey, but now make no comment ( because they are not online!) about Gaza?

They are BOTH wrong.  Learn to accept wrongs in your country and wrongs with other countries.  I have yet to travel to a perfect country!!!

Come on... I saw everyone logged in here regularly... that means your thesis is wrong...

 OMG I do believe you would say white is black too!!! I see no thehandsom, no femmeous, no teaship...and very few posts

Canli feel free to delete any "insulting comments".

This site became a joke anyway!

right, when 200 muslims get murdered it`s an unimportant event concerning only us, paranoids.

when 3000 of christians get killed by some terrorists, it`s an important event which gives them the right to genocide 1 million of people. I wonder who are the real paranoids.

Thank god, i have my mom to talk, but no i am strong enough to deal with your sarcasm and thoughts...

Ah ah... i already know the wrongs in my country and stated them one by one... Go and check if you are really interested...

Oh really? they are both wrong? i didnt know it... thank you for enlightening my world...

It is getting personal... so i stop here...

 You are being so naive!  I WILL REPEAT FOR THE LAST TIME, THERE ARE AT LEAST 90% LESS POSTS FOR THE PAST 4 DAYS BECAUSE OF THE CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY.

It is a very important event and truly horrifying.  Stop being such a victim!

Baby, if they are not online when you are... it doesnt mean that they were never... gotcha?

all the insults I can see on this thread came from you.

CANLI feel free to delete AE`s insults!

 I am talking about MY INSULTS you paranoid!

 Again let me repeat for the FINAL TIME:-

THERE ARE AT LEAST 90% LESS POSTS FOR THE PAST 4 DAYS BECAUSE OF THE CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY.

It is a very important event and truly horrifying.  Stop being such a victim!

YOU PEOPLE TURN EVERYTHING INTO RELIGIOUS HATRED!

I see...

I am sorry then...

CANLI, please delete this too. this lady is out of control!

 Yes I am!  I come back and read all this religious hatred crap from you, all nicely agreeing about how heartless we all are..... you people crack me up!!!

In fact Canli, feel free to delete me too!

nice idea. she has a dozen of fake accounts anyway

Can you tell me what did you drink?

I know she smokes weird things

Guys,people die,their blood didnt dry yet

And their numbers are increasing every few mints

Can you please take it out of here ?

 Awww little darlings... I neither smoke or drink.  I suggest you don´t judge people by YOUR standards

 Yeah it is on the news every minute Canli...... you think you are telling us something new?  You think the world turns a blind eye?  From where do you get that perception?  From paranoids like SuiGeneris or Tamikidakika?

 Aint it you now being childish?

She was simply inviting us to continue personal fightes in somewhere else... 

on what basis you can call me a paranoid? Anyone not thinks like you is a paranoid?

come on, you can do better than that...

No AE,im asking you ´all´ to respect people´s grief and discuss the unrelated topics via pm´s thats all.

wasn`t it you who said that this is "a little thread shared by paranoids", now you`re saying its not true that you don`t care about it. you`re being funny AE.

CANLI, please delete all this dengesiz`s posts!

You just don´t SEE IT do you!!!

Hmmm where are all these Israel supporters?

Or...are you all waiting for Femmeous to log in to prove your point!

Continue with your "the world hate muslims" thread.....!

.... this is a very true statement. History has proven this many times...over and over again. The Aztecs lorded it over the other Amerindians....which was part of their downfall. That was a large part the reason the other Amerindians helped Cortez.

I pray for the families of those lives destroyed in this horrible action and I pray for a more humane solution.

I feel it is very "related" to log on and find all this religious hatred going on actually Canli.  Perhaps you should think about what you write before judging other members here in their absence.

Anyway, this thread is strictly for "muslim victims".  Others may agree with you about the politics involved, but you would much prefer they did not!

dont tell me that, this is what you got only from what i wrote here.. this is really sad...

It is you who only says about religious hatred here... not me or Canli stated it...

Please dont accuse on people with the stories you like to play on your mind...

 You know AE,

We are burying our people there,ACTUALLY burying them and you are laughing about it.

Our countries are on fire,our hearts are burning and you are making fun of it !

Ý asked you to respect our grief,but you made it another reason to fight about ?! 

Now you know when the world has turned blind ?and where did i get that prospective ?

Since there was no sensitivities even to other people´s funerals.

thank you,that was very considerate !

 As you WELL KNOW I am NOT laughing about it - don´t twist this AGAIN the way tamikidakika does.  Strange, I never see such respect from you when we are talking about women who die every day at the hands of men?  Seems you choose when to be sensitive.

I am as horrified as you, and VERY ANGRY when I read comments saying that only muslims are considered to be terrorists.  I have a family member killed by an IRA terrorist bomb.

Sensitivities to others funerals?  I saw no such sensitivities in any of the previous posts on this thread, only hate.  As far as I am aware, nobody discussing this thread has family members who have been killed so respect to that degree is not necessary.  Why is your anger more important than mine?

Excuse me, but who is WE?

Aenigma, This is the time to be respectful and humble. Hundreds have died horrible deaths, how many have suffered horrible wounds? We sit here on the side helpless to stop the carnage. The pain and suffering is really unfathomable.

This is the time to lower one´s head in shame for the "human" condition, not argue about who is the bigger victim.

And the worst of it is....it is still going on! The bombs are still falling and there is no end in sight.

You promote the kind of hate written here Alameda?   I have no reason to feel humble - our country do not donate millions of pounds to Israel.  Our country is showing news reports 24/7 about this, not keeping it´s people in ignorance.  I feel horror as any normal human being would.

Why do you assume it does not affect me?  Why do you assume I consider any human death as "them" or "us" the way the people on this thread do?  All human killings are abhorent, and most of it caused by RELIGION! 

Have a stop there... How do you know who lost what by terrorists?

I never stated about anything to hate... i just reproached we can say... as i started this thread about it....

mostly terrorists are concerned to be muslims as we can see this from commedy shows and caricatures Aenigma...

 If Canli is personally burying her dead, I assume she would not be posting on Turkish Class.

In fact it is YOU people who are being disrespectful.  The only pity I see is from Canli, the rest of you use this as another east west religious hate campaign.

 Paranoids.  We have seen VERY WELL what radical muslims think of the "west". 

Ýts our people,and our lands not yours !

For many years till recent history after the drawing of the new borders and the British invasion.

Our blood watered that land defending it

How can your anger and your grief be same as ours ?!

Ýf you were in grief really as we are,you wouldnt be discussing this with me,instead you would be feeling what we are feeling.

Anyway,case closed for me...

Ý have joint that thread knowing that i would be  sharing our tragedy with our people,and other friends and members who would be feel,or understand our grief,maybe some would attack or take other sides...but actually i havent expected this from you.

have fun...its all yours

Ým out of here.

 Correct me if I am wrong, I thought you were egyptian?

so you agree that christians are responsible for the Iraqi genocide, and jews for what`s going on in palestine? that`s interesting because the only evil religion in the sick minds of most westerners is islam.

Its a pity that you still continue on that silly "east west hate campaing", you dictate on us...

If you read my words carefully... you will see you are not true...

why dont you consider the truth that people other than you can be right aswell?

If there is a hate... you simply hate from me and my ideas... because i am simple and narrow minded oh well!!!

thank god!

Again we have Christians and Muslims  RELIGION at war!  Yes I agree, does that bother you? However I do not agree that religion was the reason for Iraq - it was far worse than that.

likewise, I know what christians think about the "east"; Nuke the Middle East!

so what?

 You are crazy.... I dont want to get involved in your religious divisions thank you.  Call yourself atheist, you defend your muslims like a radical.

The point is, it´s not about you.. It´s the human condition that I am ashamed of. You are part of humanity, aren´t you? As a member of the human race we are burying our dead, tending to our wounded. As a member of the human race, I am humbled and ashamed....

......and I really don´t think religion has anything to do with it. I don´t know of any religion that condones killing the innocent.

i have never called myself an atheist, and I don`t defend any muslim. do I have to praise the terrorist christian idea of nuking the middle east to prove that.

 The POINT IS, we are not allowed to sympathise because we are non-muslim Alameda.  See how much notice people made of your posts.  THEY are burying THEIR dead and let´s blame all "christians".

If there is a god, please destroy all religions.

 If the opening post by SuiGeneris DIRECTED at TC members (and Tams post about only muslims being considered as terrorists) had not been made, this thread would have been respectful and sympathetic.  People are horrified the world over.

So yes, this thread IS about us Alameda.

 You are right somehow here actually...

It is not the religion but the people that rules the religious rules according to theirselves for their own benefits...

what`s so wrong with quoting a common notion? don`t most christians think so? you`re talking as if it`s my undrestanding that only muslims can be terrorists.

 Dearest Canli, this is WHY this post has not been as respectful as you would have like.  It was a provocative statement to make.

If there is a freedom of stating thoughts as you say... i have the right to say how sad i am to see there is no response at whats going on in Gazza... and people were online enough to say a couple of words believe me...

And then you poped up with hatred of religions, east-west stories as usual...

How dare you judge people in their absence?  Yes there is a freedom of stating thought.  HOWEVER, do not complain when I reply and accuse me of lacking sensitivity.

People have logged in, but as far as I can see have not spent time writing threads today. Again...how DARE you judge them.

so who are you excuse me to decide how respectful i am? Who are you?

 You misunderstood (as usual) what i was saying.  Canli accused me of being "disrespectful" and I was commenting that the opening post was provocative and so the thread was bound continue this way.

Ha! If you are offended it is not my problem... I just made my comment... i do not judge people... this is just how i felt... if you dont believe so.. instead of insulting me and fighting at me... you could tell in better ways and make me ashamed maybe...

Oh yes i am sorry i forgot, that is not possible, due to the tiny little mind i have...

and people didnt find that interesting thread to post then... that is so simple...

This thread had been respectful until you came AE and started to call people paranoid and freak just because they talked about the killings, so don`t accuse anyone of being provacative.

It could be that they are shocked and speechless. I know, it´s hard to know what to say. This is incomprehensibly horrible. I think many in the USA aren´t even aware of how large this is, and probably many don´t even know about it.

Here in the USA there has been hardly anything on the news about it. On Google news it´s on top, but that means people have to be logged on to read the news. I turned on CNN and there was a very short mention of it, then they went on to other news.  Note the CNN in the USA is not the same as CNN International.

It seems that many of those who post here are on holiday from work, thus they are not logged on to post.

the news is on the front page of cnn`s website. The fact is people will see only what they want to see. I have read the news on couple of blogs, and from the comments I read, I can tell that most of the Americans and other christians along with jews celebrate the killings.

"Someone or Something placed Israel where it is today. It is a buffer between Good and Evil. That is why Someone or Something placed Israel where it is today. It is squarely between the Civilized West and, the barbaric terrorist Islamic world . Israel has a very important part to play. And, the force that placed it there between Good and Evil cannot be overcome by mere mortals"

http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/12/27/israeli-airstrike-hamas-threatens-violence-for-attack-because-of-hamas-violence/

In 1517 Gaza fell to the Ottomans and was part of the Ottoman Empire until the First World War.

Starting in the early 19th century, Gaza was culturally dominated by neighboring Egypt. Though part of the Ottoman Empire, a large number of its residents were Egyptians (and their descendants) who had fled political turmoil.

According to the terms of the 1947 United Nations partition plan, the Gaza area was to become part of a new Arab state. Following the dissolution of the British mandate of Palestine and 1947-1948 Civil War in Palestine, Israel declared its independence in May 1948. The Egyptian army invaded the area from the south, starting the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.^[4]

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~gov46/

Not a suitable time for history...but at that time,it was either we hope in or Ýsrael takes it all over and kick the Palestinian out

Our army which was weak too,we were controlled by another country,was the only organized army in there which can defend the land...and we did,through years we did.

So yes,im Egyptian,but it was our blood which has spilt there on that land .

Comment by Marshie

One has to be online to read the news. I don´t think a lot of those who log on here are currently online.I know I´m not online all day other than when I´m at work. It was only when I logged on here that I heard of this action. There are days, not many, I don´t go online at all. On the TV news and radio, there is hardly anything about it here.

Here is another site that has different and more varied opinions on this action.

Israeli air strikes target Gaza

Comment by Blue Proctor

Comment by Adam

Comment by Concerned American

Tamikidakika, certainly not all Americans feel like these stupid people you are quoting here. I have no idea where you found them, but it does not reflect the majority opinion.

I´m ashamed to admit, there are such stupidand ignorant people, but not all feel this way. The ones who do are ignorant and uneducated.

Let´s pray for an end to this insanity. (and if you don´t believe in prayer, hope)  It does nothing good for us. We are all loosers in this venture.

What is wrong with you people ?!

What does religion has to do with that ?!!!!!!!!

Palestinians are Muslims and Christians,they are dying there side by side,and they are fighting their enemies also side by side

Missiles wont pick to kill the Muslim and not the Christian,and beside i dont think Ýsrael gives a s**t

Those people are dying for their lands,together...dying together.

Ý said OUR land AE not meaning Muslims lands...it was really OUR land and our people,we lived together before and during the Ottoman Empire ,and we defended this land together,side by side by its people

We paid our blood for that land.

Why it has to be about religion...about East,and west ?

This time its not about that...

Ýts about people dying for their land,and with nothing to defend themselves

Fights like we have now..East,West,Muslim,Christians,making it looks shallow,as its everyday news,we just read and go on !

So move on...there is no religion fights here...they into this together...dying together and fighting together too!

 I am also annoyed by your post too!  Some of us don´t spend all day everyday on here, and it is Christmas, we are with our famlies.  Me?  I have been in bed with a virus so no interest in coming on here.  And now it is around 4:00 and I can´t sleep.

I saw the news this evening, or yesterday evening now, and I strongly condem the action of Israel, I always have done, but I don´t need to rush to TC to announce that or argue about it for that matter.   

+100000000000000 

then you are contradicting yourself... you are condeming other extremists... but you are one???

+100000000000000000000 why are you sooo good at pointing out what other members here would like to express?

+10000000000000000

i dont need to say anything... you have explained it well enough...

and in the sick minds of "some" muslims, christians....

everybody blames each other... however you, tami, refuse to see both sides. You only see what is right based on your own standards.

I agree... if you read Suis post carefully, it is a sarcastic accusation that other members here do not care about the issue simply because they have not made a post about this since we are celebrating Christmas.

once again, you are generalizing that everyone calls muslims as terrorists.

Open your eyes.... you think everyone, be it atheists, or christians, or whatever,as uneducated people regarding the difference of terrorists and muslims and islam. WE ARE AWARE THAT NOT ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIMS. but you seem to firmly believe otherwise.

again tami, you only choose what you read. It is clear that Sui was making a sarcastic accusation for members being insensitive to this issue, just because they didn´t have time to post about it during their holiday celebration. you don´t think that as an insult? you are so biased.

there is no point explaining that to him. he finds a few posts like this, and accuses everyone of hatred against muslims. I can try and find a few posts of hatred on US posted by tami, but i´m pretty sure he would see it as justifiable, based on his own standards.

I do feel sorry about these happening CANLI. However AE did not start the post about this muslim, christian, west, east, thing. As far as I know, she was only reacting to Sui´s accusation of other members here who failed to make a post about this issue. It started on Tami´s post.... if somebody here needs to move on, it should be Tami, and his extremist ideas.

so you, at last, learned the difference between islam and muslim?

I have never criticized anyone because they have never mentioned about the killings till now. That was Sui, and I don`t agree with her in this regard.

I have never said something like "we should wipe out all the Americans". have I?

ok I`m being extremist because it was me who said israel should wipe out all the muslims.

What Israel is doing is blatant state terrorism.

This is a massacre!!

This will only create less security for its citizens not more.

And as far as Palestinian people and Hamas and their actions are concerned, they are the great example what human beings can become when you push them to the boundries of humanity. 

This looks like Israel´s goverment´s show case before their coming election. They could have extended the truce with Hamas and could have stopped the rockets by opening the blockade to Gazza. But as usual, they have prefered to play ´who is incharge around here´ game.

Since the entire world seems to be relatively silence about the issue and fail to stop Israel, it would not surprise me if Hezbullah starts firing at Israel again. 

Then Israel will stop.. 

This is true actually..

And I personally think, sometimes people are so blinded that they are unable to see the similar cases if they are hapenning in their own country..

If you check my country´s last 30 years treatment of kurds, what they have been saying about the issues such as ´ah it is only terrorism´ (israel is saying the same thing I am afraid-they are fighting terrorism-) and number of people killed  (I think the number of kurdish civilians killed by our own state is higher than the number of palestinian civilians killed by the israeli army).

This is simply having a ´double face´ (hopefully without realizing)

Anyway..

This thread is about Gazza..

 Same thing happened to me last night too LL   Feeling REALLY bad today ..... why is there always ONE relative who spreads their virus around at this time!

Here the case is not the number here... I personally commented my sadness towards all the deads people here... unless they are terrorist troops...

I just want to add to your comment... it was not only Kurdish civillians killed there... from all around the Turkey, alot of people was killed there...

What the heck is going on here? Is it a thread dedicated to the grief over victims of Israeli violence or a stupid attempt to slap all "westerners" on this site with lies? How dare you say we don´t care that such number of Palestinians are massacred by Israel? Do you think we are happy about that? If so then you need a treatment, a serious one. I can´t speak for the USA but all Polish media talk about it and trust me, they don´t say it´s a minor inccident. They call it massacre so all you "western-haters" go and blab about evil west siding with Israel somewhere where people have no idea about life. Perhaps there your lies will be heard and believed.

How dare you say here that non-Muslim members do not comment on this issue because they are happy/don´t care about that. You´re sick if you think so. AE was trying to explain that during Xmas hardly anybody has the time to get online but you just poured your hatered over her as if she was responsible for what goes on in Gaaza .

She´s also right about the fact that only few members ever spoke here in favour of Israel, yet, you still go on spreading the lies that this site is about "we hate Muslims, let them die" It´s bulls***t! But apparently it´s the only way your search of enemies where there aren´t any is satisfied.

What did you mean Sui when you wrote "where are you sensitive members, why don´t you say it´s bad?" What was the point? Do you really think that´s how the "western" members in this site are? Then I have apparently misjudged you. I´ve never thought you were so Tamikidakika. He´s more likely to speak without thinking as the hate he holds in him boils so much that truth is not his care, only poison that consumes his brain. (BTW that was not an insult - it was a metaphor).

The obsession with west being Christians that plan to destroy good Muslims is tiresome. It´s not true, please learn the fact that west is more secular that east ever will be so if you have a reason to hate it for what goes on in the east speak of the real cause of it, do not hide behind religion. It is about POWER, MONEY, LAND not about religion.

I am deeply sorry for those who lost their lives, their families and friends in Israeli genocide. So is my country and my folks. I do hope for peace although I don´t think it will be easy to achieve. I wish I had superpowers or enough brains to come up with a way to end it but I don´t.

i am moslem, but i did not want to post my opinion. Why not? Because i thought that it wont change a thing. I mean, this circumstances in Palastine are not new. So what is happining in Gazza does not surprise me. I am speechless at the moment. That is why it is not easy for me to post my opinion.

I also do not like to speak about the Middle East issue online, because there are a lot ( not all) foolish people,  who can not speak without hurting each other.

Sorry for my bad English

My message was direct and i am sure the ones who needed to be offended and get the message has got it... i might be wrong about my thoughts... but those people were online enough to mention about this issue also, like they broadcast in a minute what happens in Turkey... Turkey also has wrong moves or behaviours, this is also i agree, but it seemed as hypocrisy to me...

1) It was not me who mentioned about between to religions, whenever i try to spoke that woman she creats the issues i never ever think of... If i was thinking like that, i wouldnt have lots of nonmuslim friends...

2) I never said westerner members i just said sensitive ones... as you see it is you who create that seperation... Please just get my point... 

3) I never had things like, christian, jew, muslim, atheist, or living in west or in east... I just expect people to stay on the same line all the time... not only something touching to their tails...

And last, thank you for how you are thinking about me also...

 +100000! Wonderful post DD

 Stop backtracking Sui - you made your thoughts plain enough, why are you now trying to back down from what you said?

Yeah...well call me humanist but even "terrorist" troops being killed is sad.  These people are brainwashed and sick, same as all terrorists.  They were once a child, they have parents, they are a wasted life, same as any other, who has been taught to hate.

You west-hating nationalists are no different: brainwashed and sick, I feel sorry for you...

i west hating nationalist? i beg your pardon but this is very sick of you...

yes you are sick!

Ýts not exactly the perfect time for us ´me´  to debat about west/East ,Muslim/Christian thing.

The situation there doesnt differentiate between Muslim and Christian as long as they are Palestinian.

Blessed from the West or not...its certanly blessed from the States which didnt even condemn the killing of people there

As if the Palestinian are not human to start with !

Even they show more mercy to the animals and animal´s rights than they show to the Palestinian !

Angry yes,angry i am for the statement i heared from them.

Ýf they didnt say anything at all,it would be much better !

As for the other countries,i belive Westerns or Easterns they both have same situation in condemning that barbaric action.

Ý just want to point at few things.

Ý understad Sui´s point of view

When there is a minor,or major event regarding Türkiye,all express their resentments,and make sure to share their opinions about it

But in such crisis we face it was totally silent here,although yes,there were members here logged in at that time but still,they were silent about it.

Also,yes,i agree many members here were with their families,and not having time to come here and share their opinions about it.

And also yes,if the Palestinian majority were Christians...things would be different.

Ý remember many years ago when Arafat was alive and Ýsrael surrounding him,and was firing at anyone comes near

The Churches there took action and sent some people to support and help ,Ýsrael cease fire at that time.

And yes Tami,there are some stupid freaks in there,and im sure we also have our stupid freaks as well specially now

The difference is,they are stronger than we are,so they make differences.

Just let´s hope the majority from both side would be wise enough

Ým sorry,i wont searching for links or documents about those issues,as i said at the beginning,its not the time nor the mood for such.

They now are 300 died,and between 800 to 1000 injured

Bombing is continue,they bomb mosque there,destroyed it totally,the main hospital and windows glasses fall over people in the intensive care

There are wires attached to them and glasses all over the floor.

They dont know their names,who are they,if they are muslims or christians...they all into this together.

I am not backtracking, i am still behind what i said and the words above you quoted shows it, but nothing else...

You created always this west-east, muslim-christian... in every single thread... please do not load on what you have in your mind to other people...

 I suggest you start a different thread with a different opening post if you want this thread to be about respect for the dead.

As I said, I feel sorry for you.

I don´t get it. Since when is running to a website the minute one hears about a tragedy an appropriate response to it? Have some respect for the dead and leave advancing your personal agenda for some other time. A moment of silence would be much more respectful here.

You are as paranoid as the rest on this thread!!!  As a mod, perhaps you would like to count the number of posts from 24th December to yesterday.  You will see that there was at least 90% less posts than normal.  People may have been logging in, but they did not have time to post here.  It is a holiday time and they are with their families.  Posting thoughts about this tragedy on Turkish Class does not constitute sympathy.  People are as horrified as you about what is happening.  You have NO RIGHT to make assumptions about people in their absence. If you cannot understand our objections, then perhaps you are not unbiased enough to be a mod.

If you want a respectful thread about this issue, I suggest you make a new one with a less provocative opening post Canli.

 +1000

Ok,all parts,can you continue this without exchanging insults ?

Ýs it much to ask ?!

I dont need your sorries... keep them for yourself please...

 +1

 As I said to you in my post, I suggest you create a NEW thread if you want a respectful thread about this issue.  I will not show any respect on a thread which accuses absent members of being insensitive to this issue, or, even worse, supporting the actions.

 You missed out this part, intentionally...

Since when is running to a website the minute one hears about a tragedy an appropriate response to it?

I didnt accuse anyone... I just asked where are you? Becuase those people were online all the time here during all those events were happening... 

 Sui I am not having this childish argument with you anymore.  How dare you accuse people.  If some people were online they were certainly not posting as I was away from this site for 4 days and saw very very few posts.

This nasty, horrible little thread be respectful? 

Is it obligatory? I´m here to learn Turkish. My discussions of the situation took place with friends and family.

I did not accuse anyone... If you read my words carefully... I reproached, but i apologize if i misunderstood...

Also, please do not say or add anything to my posts here.. because i will do the same... I am sick of your twisting my words and your silly insults towards me...

it was a sarcastic, indirect, insinuation that people did not care to make a post about it because they are on a holiday.

please go and read the first post... this is not obligatory... i just protested in a way those fakers...

 Yes ! That´s it !

You picked part of my post and skipped the other...fine by me,but i wont repeat myself.

Ý think what i said was clear enough.

Sui meant the people who were already here not the absent ones

You´re being jugdemental,who gaves you the right to judge people here ?

 Sui said his opinion,that is what he think/thought,its his right to express it

You also have your opinions,and you expressed them

Ýt doesnt give you any right to judge people if they dont see or agree about what you say

You just do what you accuse others of doing !

You thought the opening was provocative ...fine you could have expressed that and concentrated on the main event

But seems the opening was more important !

Ýf you want to make new thread,then you do it...

We had/have this one the way it is...i wont fake another one to make things looks more prettier when they are not!

Near this bad issues i am wondering where is our "humanistic" and "hellenist" members, i was wondering if they are still under the pink clouds of Santa? where they were wild like a puma over Turkish government when there was a single little issue related to terrorist events...

that is what you have written Sui. You know what you are trying to insinuate, you know that you are implying that the people who logged in didn´t care enough to make a post about the issue, when they were so quick to criticize Turkish goverment... etc...

Sui was only judged because Sui also made assumptions about other members who didn´t make any posts here...

 No I am fine with this thread staying as it is Canli - perhaps then you should stop bleating on about being respectful, as you do not see any disrespect in the opening post.  As I also have said, I have no objection to Sui expressing his opinion....so therefore you should STOP OBJECTING when we reply to him and stop accusing us of being "disrespectful to the dead".  If Sui can speak his mind, why not us?

Consider also your words about "have more respect, we are burying OUR dead".  You then complain when I say you are making this an "us" and "them" situation.

Anyway, this has been a good exercise.  It is clear to see that when you scratch beneath the surface of any of you, you find a west-hater bursting to get out .

Yes that was my thought, good you understood... it is not accusation, just a simple protest we can say... who needed to be offended, gets offended...

and i was not defending or covering the wrong behaviours made by my own governments by what is done in Gazza...

Never made anything such west-east, christ-moslim discriminations...

 Dont worry...i wont,not anymore any way...!

As you said,when you scratch beneath the surface you can see many clear things !

It seems to me, you were trying to offend some people here Sui..

You wrote those to accuse some people..

So Aenigma was right all along!!

No, thehandsom,

protesting, or reproaching has no similar meanings to accuse somebody... I might be thinking wrong that is possible... but i just stated what seemed to me...

 i dont think he tried to offend, i think he expressed his anger. if i were him i would write the same thing.

but i have the same argument against sue and esp. canli: i never saw them expressing their grief over those who were killed in mumbai, for those who are constantly killed in india, indonesia, phillippines.

but theres no point taking it out, because muslims grieve over muslims only.

 +1

 From what I´ve read on this site, I believe you have a fat backside.  It seems you can use it for talking too . . . how talented you are

 Are you saying you do not agree with that comment?

 i dont think she was saying anything at all.

Aenigma I am new one here, its few forums I have read here. and this one is very sensetive subject.

I am Christian and from west, you know in opening thread I didnt feel anything offensive towards my belief or location where I am from.

Indeed, the one who wants to be offended - gets offended.

In some post you mentioned about aim to decrease insults in forums on this site - how do you think what is your contribution in that? you name persons here terrible - wear haters, nationalists, little minded etc....

if I may allow myself to give suggestion - argue with facts, not personal insults, not good, really not good that way.....

maybe better make discussion on subject, as I guess it was ment at the beginning till some tried to make problem about way how problem is expressed ... don´t try to dig problem where there is no problem.

nothing personal...

I think you actually  are right up there..

It is ironically hypocratical that some people dont feel a tinsy bit sarrow about the other people who got killed in other countries (or in my own country) and preach here how to sarrow. 

But anyway..

 No lady... i never spend my energy on hating something...  and muslims grieve over muslims only is not a true statement...

I have lots of muslims around who also feels sad for people killed in any religion they belong to...

 Hello "new" member and welcome to Turkish Class!

Maybe you have not been here long enough to understand?

Anyway, I stopped insulting long ago, but when I read the kind of west hating paranoid crap that was written here, I used the only language they understand.  Perhaps you were concentrating so much on my posts you missed Tam´s radical spew about us? Perhaps you also missed Sui´s criticism of TC members?

Do I apologise?  No

PS Great photos ....and congratulations on your first post

 it must be 1 or 2% of miracles

 wow, not bad for a new member

 Eh you know i am on of those miracles came to this world

yes everybody is new on this site like me

 i knew this before you were born

I just judge here what I read now.

I don´t want to develope this disccusion any further, but you know "west hating paranoid crap that was written here", "radical spew", "criticism of TC members" -  isn´t it all way too much exaggerated?

maybe I really don´t understand, but I don´t see any such here...

 Hehehe maybe some people see only what they want to see eh?  You were right about that!!!

Radical spew?  Instead of checking out my posts, perhaps you should check Temikidakika´s!   Much more worthwhile dear

Just because we can not keep the beliefs we believe - the beliefs which must be kept in  our hearts;we-the humanbeings-have been quarreling,struggling;moreover,fighting...

Religion belongs to the person himself.

The things have been occuring in Gazza are mutual.Both sides have done wrong until today..and still continuing...The thing only be done now is to stop both sides.

Many of us feel sorry-whether he/she believes in different religion.

Just hope soon the United Nations will handle the issue and stop both sides´ sorrows.

Hamas ´bars injured leaving Gaza´

Egypt says the Hamas militant group, which controls Gaza, is preventing hundreds of wounded Palestinians from leaving for treatment in Egypt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7801881.stm

i suppose its handy for hamas to block a help. more death toll more horror in media. they even manipulate with their injured people.

That´s how I understood it as well. Perhaps Sui should clarify which members he meant - Trudy who´s chasing lions somewhere in South Africa? Teas whose last activity here was on 26th Dec or maybe Roswitha who usually posts Turkey-related messages on this board?

I still cannot understand what other purpose your post might serve, if it was to express symphaty for the Palestinian dead then the way you posted it belittled their tragedy.

is there reason to continue?

it is meaningless to have such kind conversations, don´t you think?

I just pointed that personal insults are disrespecfull, and people shouldn´t behave such way, can you disagree with that? I think - no.  so thats it!

don´t take anything so personal please, people just express their opinions.

p.s. my 3rd and last post on subject not related to topic Insallah

There is no point to name here... you could just read my post, even if it is stupid also, and make a little self-critism... If you think you are not in my definition, then feel free and just say your comments among that sad event...

well anyway... dont bother or try to see the meaning of my words... just ignore please...

I did read your post and found it appalling and it doesn´t matter if I am in your definition or not, you insulted absent people of hypocricy without giving it a thought. That´s very unlike you so I was surprised. Self-criticism? Why should I need it? I´ve never said a word of support to Israel, au contraire, I´ve always criticised their policy so I have nothing to be critical of. And ignore is not a way, you insult people saying they´re insensitive and then when you realise how unjustified it was suddenly you say "ignore" it doesn´t work this way and you know it

+1234567890 (btw..right now, no sucking up ..ok? )

hi .. thanx for this post .. iam live in gaza .. we are killed by israel

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

israel need kill every body .. need kill hamas that kill children of gaza strip

best wiches.

Dont you ever bring to personal, one to one debate... I directed my words and yes i think they are hypocritics... why do you need to learn names... who needs to offend or get messages, they get it... i was never thinking that you would get offended on this... and the people i directed were not the absent ones...

again you say insulting... no it was a simple question, and reproaching... why are you giving meanings more than i intended to give...

UN Security Council press statement on the situation in Gaza http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs//2008/sc9559.doc.htm

"Security Council expressed serious concern at the escalation of the situation in Gaza..."

well... just statement ... where is real action and reaction? this conflict didn´t appear just today... this organization never stops to surprise me about its meaningless.

 Well finally I can agree with you!

I am curious who you consider hypocrites and I´ve been here long enough to know who usually participates in debates (it´s not hard as there aren´t many members like that) and who usually provide info about Muslim injustice. 3 nicks came to my mind and all three haven´t been here for a while. So I took it as you meant it to everyone of "humane" approach. I didn´t get offended personally, I was just surprised in a bad way to see you post like this. That´s all

 Sorry to disappoint you then... will be careful next time, be sure that, because i was called in many names that i would better not exist if i was one of those...

Hadi ya, no offense You know we love you here in TC

Sui if you dont like arguing, why did you post such a thing?  Anyway.... don´t take my insults so personally

I like arguing, it is obvious...

you are directing your words to me... how come you say "not to take personally?"...  anyway...

the thread actually, was kept alive... so it is good that people now know there is something going on there... if they dont check news or newspapers... 

You like arguing?  Yet you seem very upset and distressed that people have argued with you about your post?

I suggest you post a few songs and send us some Turkish recipes in future   Your thread nearly turned me to the "dark side" and I was about to join thehairy´s haram

DON´T DO IT AGAIN!

United Nations and other international organisations are fucking unnecessary groups in this world. Nobody cares about what s happing in muslim countries, but if the subject is Armenian or jewish ppl or other christian communities, we all watch news about it day and night. Still they judge our history, but not present time. There is no reaction or any protest in europe, humanity is giving an exam now.

 Offffffffff why do you think people don´t care?  Please show me links to the protests in Turkey about what has happened? I am really interested to see them.  I think you will find more action has been taken in my country than yours by people who are against what is happening there.

You are being typically muslim paranoid...

 Strange, I noticed that you do that often ...

we are not paranoid. here is the link. a few hours later the israel attack.

place is taksim square. thousands of ppl come togater for protesting.

http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/GaleriDetay.aspx?cid=18932&p=1&rid=2

no need to send other news.