Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Turkish Politics

Turkish Politics

Add reply to this discussion
West hating Turkish Nationalism
(25 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
1 2 3
1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 05:56 pm

 

Until end of the cold war, nationalism  in Turkey was hand in hand with the west (actually more than that: their legs were touching under the table; they were heart to heart ) . 

What happened so that saliva from nationalists becomes this acidic when the word ´west´ being mentioned?

Lets look at the recent events a bit closely..

 

The ruling power managed quite well in 1960 and 1970s, with the left and in 1980s and 1990s with the Kurds. Although it took two coup d´etats to deal with the left and then a continues military regime to deal with the Kurds they were kind of successful and they always had the western support (specially about the struggle with the left..West has  always been sympathetic to Kurds but being a Nato ally, being an only reliable power in the middle east etc prevented the west from condemming anything harshly)

 

But with the start of 2000s, a new enemy emerged..Turkey´s conservatives!!

 

Their number was greater than the previous enemies..And their new party AKP was not looking like the other Islamic parties such as RP (Erbakan´s party which was removed from the power by the military)..If it was, it would be easier ´to deal with them´ for the ruling class..

But this AKP was talking about more freedom, they changed many undemocratic passages in the constitution to comply with the Copenhagen criteria (EU criteria), they did support ´annan plan about the Cyprus to solve the dead lock created by the state, they even gave signals that they could talk about this ´so´ called Armenian genocide..

And the ruling class aka secular traditionalists, unelected rulers  got caught unprepared with AKP´s election success..

In 1990s, because of the absence of civil vision, the ruling elite started to develop its own defense mechanism. Many think-thanks were established and they answered the question ´who is going to be the next enemy?´..

The answer was ´islamists´. 

When they anticipated that the western pressure would increase about the human rights and Kurdish issue, they revived the ´sevr phobia´!!  This was the time also they started to mention the name of Soros and how Turkish intellects got paid by them..

The justice system got along with the unelected rulers and most of them, once retired,got active roles in some orginisations such as ´Ataturkcu dusunce dernegi´ which organised those huge demonstrations against the islamists a few years earlier..(now some of the active  members are in the court with ergenekon case)

Although the anti western sentiments started after the cold war because of the need of an enemy for the ruling class nationalists, in order to keep hanging on the power, AKP´s success and relatively good relations with the western countries was the last straw for them..That is why these anti western rethorics became a de facto chewing gum for some of the people in Turkey..

 

That was the time when they started to critisize every step AKP started to do for EU..

Generals started to talk about almost anything, weekly in the media..

The ruling class started to look ways to close AKP by accusing them with their ´secret agenda´-sheria-, CHP, the party of ruling class, which is supposed to be center -left, instead of critisizing government for doing less about the democracy, they started to accuse the government for doing too much for the democracy and the EU.. 

It was these very recent years when they started to belittle the global values and the words such as democracy, intellects, freedom, peace with huge passion. These were the times when Orhan Pamuk subjected to all those attacks, all those belittlement , calling him betrayer etc..Killing priest Santoro, bombing the daily paper Cumhuriyet, torturing and killing 3 Christians in Malatya, killing Hrant Dink etc.. They were all ´deep state´ related..

 

Anyway..coming back to the topic 

These people and its accessories hate the west.

They associate the west with their support for Kurdish people and islamists and ultimately losing the power. 

So anything mentioned to them and those things are associated with the west, I mean anything, such as ´human rights´, such as ´democracy´, such as ´freedom´, will create ´red to bull´ effect and they will try to find any way to discredit them.

 

 

2.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 08:41 pm

Really interesting - thanks TheH.  It certainly explains A LOT!!!

3.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:05 pm

now as you found out our little dirty secrets AE, you can wear your burka, and join the very democratic akp. that`s the way to be a "modern" chick. hadi, don`t be a west hater!

4.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:10 pm

 

Quoting tamikidakika

now as you found out our little dirty secrets AE, you can wear your burka, and join the very democratic akp. that`s the way to be a "modern" chick. hadi, don`t be a west hater!

 

 Awwww thanks for the offer Tam, but actually I don´t like either   Does everything have to be black or white for you?

5.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:15 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 Awwww thanks for the offer Tam, but actually I don´t like either   Does everything have to be black or white for you?

 

but if you`re not like that, you`re an ergenekoncu, fascist, west hater. so it`s pretty much black and white.

6.       femmeous
2642 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:15 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 Awwww thanks for the offer Tam, but actually I don´t like either   Does everything have to be black or white for you?

 

 dont listen to tami

Ireland too grey for the burqa

Women wearing burqas in cold countries risk broken bones from vitamin D deficiency

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5404390.ece

7.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:16 pm

 

Quoting tamikidakika

but if you`re not like that, you`re an ergenekoncu, fascist, west hater. so it`s pretty much black and white.

 

 Sweetie I don´t fall into any such "category" with any politics - especially Turkey´s!!  It may be hard to accept, but not everyone is as fundamentalist as you

8.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:19 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 dont listen to tami

Ireland too grey for the burqa

Women wearing burqas in cold countries risk broken bones from vitamin D deficiency

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5404390.ece

 

damn, this is just a crappy regenekoncu, fascist, west hater propaganda.

 

Don`t get fooled by this AE. You can borrow your burka from theH, if you don`t have one yet

9.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:20 pm

 

Quoting tamikidakika

damn, this is just a crappy regenekoncu, fascist, west hater propaganda.

 

Don`t get fooled by this AE. You can borrow your burka from theH, if you don`t have one yet

 

 lol

 

10.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:21 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 Sweetie I don´t fall into any such "category" with any politics - especially Turkey´s!!  It may be hard to accept, but not everyone is as fundamentalist as you

 

so I`m a fundementalist, and theH is not?

11.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:21 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 dont listen to tami

Ireland too grey for the burqa

Women wearing burqas in cold countries risk broken bones from vitamin D deficiency

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5404390.ece

 

So, if a woman breaks her bones due to vit D deficiency resulting from wearing burka, will she be considered a martyr? lol

12.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:22 pm

 

Quoting tamikidakika

so I`m a fundementalist, and theH is not?

 

ha ha

stop comparing yourself with me Tami..lol

13.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:22 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

So, if a woman breaks her bones due to vit D deficiency resulting from wearing burka, will she be considered a martyr? lol

 

 NO!  She will be flogged for being so weak!!!  DD I suggest you re-think your burkas now

14.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:22 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

So, if a woman breaks her bones due to vit D deficiency resulting from wearing burka, will she be considered a martyr? lol

 

no she will be a freedom and democracy martyr!

15.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:24 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

ha ha

stop comparing yourself with me Tami..lol

 

I would never compare myself to a soros, feto and akp fan, theH{#lang_emotions_scared}

16.       femmeous
2642 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:29 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

ha ha

stop comparing yourself with me Tami..lol

 

 lol

this is a dangerous obsession, hairy lol

17.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:30 pm

 

Quoting tamikidakika

I would never compare myself to a soros, feto and akp fan theH{#lang_emotions_scared}

 

well..it seemed to me you were..

(I will blame that blonde Aenigma for that  lol lol

well..I did not know much about soros to be honest and i still dont..

And for the rest, i dont think I need to answer..I have always had a specific belief since god knows when and I have never betrayed it..

18.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:33 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 lol

this is a dangerous obsession, hairy lol

 

lol

Do you think it is all about my ´hair related charm´? {#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

19.       femmeous
2642 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:33 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

well..it seemed to me you were..

(I will blame that blonde Aenigma for that  lol lol

well..I did not know much about soros to be honest and i still dont..

And for the rest, i dont think I need to answer..I have always had a specific belief since god knows when and I have never betrayed it..

 

 its a big mistake

he is a great person promoting education. but tami hates knowledge and can only associate himself with ignorance lol

20.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:33 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

well..it seemed to me you were..

(I will blame that blonde Aenigma for that  lol lol

 

 Blame me for WHAT you hairy fur-ball?

21.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:35 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 NO!  She will be flogged for being so weak!!!  DD I suggest you re-think your burkas now

 

{#lang_emotions_cry}

22.       femmeous
2642 posts
 28 Dec 2008 Sun 11:59 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

lol

Do you think it is all about my ´hair related charm´? {#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

 im a 100% sure. hes very very jealous of your hair

23.       femmeous
2642 posts
 29 Dec 2008 Mon 12:07 am

BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
Textbook: Missionaries ´destroy´ national values

Lesson for 13-year-olds warns of Christians´ ´subversive´ aims

A newly published textbook that´s mandatory for 13-year-olds to study tells how Christian missionaries´ want to "break down the unity of a country by destroying the national and cultural values," according to a worldwide Christian ministry.

The warning comes from Christian Solidarity Worldwide, which said the textbook for Turkish students also warns that missionaries use "natural disasters, such as earthquakes, to serve their own interests."

Then the book advises students how they can recognize the "subversive" intentions and activities of the missionaries.

 

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=84450

 

24.       Uzun_Hava
449 posts
 29 Dec 2008 Mon 12:48 am

 

Quoting femmeous

BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
Textbook: Missionaries ´destroy´ national values

Lesson for 13-year-olds warns of Christians´ ´subversive´ aims

A newly published textbook that´s mandatory for 13-year-olds to study tells how Christian missionaries´ want to "break down the unity of a country by destroying the national and cultural values," according to a worldwide Christian ministry.

The warning comes from Christian Solidarity Worldwide, which said the textbook for Turkish students also warns that missionaries use "natural disasters, such as earthquakes, to serve their own interests."

Then the book advises students how they can recognize the "subversive" intentions and activities of the missionaries.

 

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=84450

 

 This explains a lot.  I had noticed myself "missionary" activities are more unpopular with secular Turks than muslims..IMHO/  I personally see no point in trying to change anybodies mind about Relgious convictions that (that are done peacefully) in Turkey or anywhere else.

25.       Uzun_Hava
449 posts
 29 Dec 2008 Mon 01:09 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

Until end of the cold war, nationalism  in Turkey was hand in hand with the west (actually more than that: their legs were touching under the table; they were heart to heart ) . 

What happened so that saliva from nationalists becomes this acidic when the word ´west´ being mentioned?

Lets look at the recent events a bit closely................................

 

The ruling power managed quite well in 1960 and 1970s, with the left and in 1980s and 1990s with the Kurds. Although it took two coup d´etats to deal with the left and then a continues military regime to deal with the Kurds they were kind of successful and they always had the western support (specially about the struggle with the left..West has  always been sympathetic to Kurds but being a Nato ally, being an only reliable power in the middle east etc prevented the west from condemming anything harshly)..............................

 

..That is why these anti western rethorics became a de facto chewing gum for some of the people in Turkey.......................................

 

The ruling class started to look ways to close AKP by accusing them with their ´secret agenda´-sheria-, .....

I have a Turkish friend who talks about AKP and "secret agenda, etc" just like this. 

 

I really appreciate this piece Handsom.  Couple of points.  Americans who were involved in cold well still appreciate Turkeys part with us (USA).  Americans don´t know much about Kurdish people.   When Saddam Hussein was killing them they got press during the First Bush Presidency as heros because they fought against Saddam, but now Saddam is gone and I would say no cares anymore (about Kurds).   Kurdish people in US have no well financed lobby like the Armenians, who have many prominent Senators and congressmen "in their pocket" because they donate huge amounts of money.

 

The Irak war has gone so badly that we doubt what we believed before.  And PKK is understood to be a terrorist group, if people know about it.

(25 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
1 2 3
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
Crossword Vocabulary Puzzles for Turkish L...
qdemir: You can view and solve several of the puzzles online at ...
Giriyor vs Geliyor.
lrnlang: Thank you for the ...
Local Ladies Ready to Play in Your City
nifrtity: ... - Discover Women Seeking No-Strings Attached Encounters in Your Ci...
Geçmekte vs. geçiyor?
Hoppi: ... and ... has almost the same meaning. They are both mean "i...
Intermediate (B1) to upper-intermediate (B...
qdemir: View at ...
Why yer gördüm but yeri geziyorum
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much, makes perfect sense!
Random Pictures of Turkey
Most liked