http://www.welt.de/politik/article2954020/Krieg-in-Nahost-Tag-5.html

One who plays with matches should not be surprised if the fire burns his hands.

Israel suffers from missiles sent on civilian population for more than

7 years.

The Hamas is hiding behind weemen and children while bombing

civilians in Israel. The behavior of this terorist group leads to these

results.

You may be right about the threat of Hamas over Israel... but this bombing all around is not the solution to solve this problem.

How soon you forgot, the behaviour of Isreal over Lebanon?

I think there is no need to use the word terrorist, because in my opinion there is no suitable definition for this word in this circumstances. I mean you have to look at the reasons why people behave like a terrorist. Then i think you wont be surprised.

I am not defending any kind of violence, but violence leads to violence.

I entered this web site in order to practise Turkish, (I

try to learn the language). I do not want to have a debate here,

but I cannot leave the debate as it is:

you forget basic facts:

a) Israel have left Gaza and right away the Hamas

took over while killing many Palestinians that opposed this act.

b) For years they hide after civilians while sending rokets from

populized areas, and when Israel retaliates trying to hit the

missile launchers, sometimes (or many times) civilians are hurt.

If roket launches stop - there will be no retaliations from Israel.

c) the same happend in Lebanon: Israel left and the other TERORIST

group- Hizballa attected  a patrol killing (and kidnapping the bodies

of dead soldiers). Israel´s retaliation was hard, again because of the

thousands of rokets sent on us.

one cannot ask a country not to defend it´s population, and luckily

we are strong enough to give war back.

would your governments not react the same in situation like this?

one always sympethize with the weak side, but one should consider all the facts

.

yeah, these pictures confirm that hamas sets their misilles in apartments! but wait I see nothing inside of those thorn buildings. where are the misilles?

The most basic fact about the issue is that Israel occupies the Palestinian soil violating the UN desicions.

you choose to ignor the facts:

a) a we occupied the "palestinian terittory" in 1967 because of

attects on us by our neighbours, (1967 war).

b) Egypt, Jordan signed peace treaty and got all their territiries back.

c) Unfortunatly the Palestinians has no rein, right now they are

composed of groups fighting between themselves and ther is nobody to talk to,

as has been throuout many years.

d) you do not see missiles in the ruins ???  I think that you choose to ignor

facts:

As in Lebanon (by Hizballa), rockets are hidden in basements of buildings

among civil population and launched from there. and while attacking the terrorist missile

launchers - the resrevours of their explosives that explode there make this damage.

again: one who plays with matches shoul think about the outcome.

It was Israel who started the war in 1967. there had not been any attacks against Israel before the Israeli jets bombed the military bases in Egypt.

and saying that Hamas sets their misilles in the basements of apartments and launces them from there is not just a lie but also a funny lie.  launching a misille from the basement of an apartment would be like commiting suicide by jumping out of the window of a basement flat.

we don`t ignore "the facts", and we are aware of the fact that Israel is full of sick minded fanatics. just read the comments on ynetnews. that`s quite enough to see how your people is full of hatred against all muslims. No wonder you have statemen like ariel sharon the genocider.

That´s so unlike Muslims - no sick minded fanatics there No suicide bombers, no terrorist acts on the whole planet. And Muslims are famous for their love of Jews Tami, don´t use arguments that are easily transferable to your favourite team.

did I say there is not any muslims who hate jews. there are so many of them, but you can see how well the hatred against muslims is established in israel just by reading their newspapers. Honestly I have never seen such racist and hateful "news" and comments on any news site before.

Let’s talk about justice

David Moria, whose son was killed by terrorists, has no sympathy for Gazans who celebrated in streets

David Moria

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3647738,00.html

This is one of the main reasons I have no respect for religions.  Even here, all we see is hate wars...

have you ever got kicked out of a church AE? my father and I were kicked out of a cemevi (that`s where alevis worship in) when I was 9 years old because I was being disrespectful! I enjoyed every bit of it though!

Hehehe you rebel

No I have never been kicked out of a church!  I only used to go as a child and was a good little girl in those days...

These days I just go to them for weddings and funerals.

that was actually my first and last time

 Dare I ask what you were doing to be "disrespectful"?

You gave characteristics of a whole nation in a simplified generalisation like you always do forgetting that it works for both sides. It´s like in a boxing match you were criticising one boxer for having a penis and testosterone abundance. Talk about numbers, history and facts, don´t go into cheap rethorics especially if your argument against Jews works for argument against Muslims as well. Internet discussion boards and newspapers can get pretty anti-Jewish as well. They´ve an ongoing conflict for some rough 6,000 years and during that time both sides have committed about the same murders. It´s not like there´s an innocent nation attacked by blood-hungry other nation, it´s a war that´s gotten out of proportion, a war both sides have added to

nothing, I was just laughing at my grandfather who was in a state of trance.

Yes that was a bit disrespectful.... thank goodness you are so polite these days di mi?

don`t you have anything better to do dd? I`m not feeling like responding to your posts now, they don`t make much sense anyway!

I`m always polite.

yes, both sides have added to this conflict, but the Jewish side is the one who caused everything, the other side is just powerless desparate people having nothing to defend themselves.

In 2006,  Israel bombed Lebanon reaching beirut destroying almost all infrastructure (electricity, briges, etc etc) in the country. The reason for this attak as claimed by israelis is that Hizballa kidnapped 2  israeli  soldiers.

and yet after all the killing and destruction hizballa grew stronger. All the dead were civilians and no hizballa members were killed.

On the other hand, in May 2007, hizballa attacked the lebanese mountains mainly inhabited by Druze.  Civilians carrying whatever personal arms they had in hand defended their homes and  were able not only to chase them out but to kill 300 of them including the  right hand of nasrallah , Naser ahmad aytawi nicknamed aboul fadl. This man was responsible for destroying by himslef 7 israeli tanks and shooting one israeli helicopter in 2006 in a battle called kalawiya in wadi al hujayr.

I am telling you this just to show you that if Israel REALLY  wanted to exterminate hizballa they would be able to do so.

In my opinion, they just wanted to destroy a country that is getting on his feet and prospering, they only needed an excuse and nasralla gave it to them.

 It does not suite israel to see countries in the region having stability and economical prosperity why else would they bomb the north of the country where there are no hizballa or attacking beirut or even the mountains. Their aim is destruction.

No one in israel will ever live in peace unless the palestinian cause is solved and palestinians get to live free and in dignity. The palestinian issue is the source of all problems and instability in the region and the only one responsible for this is Israel. at least that is what I think.

Water in Palestine

West Bank Water Usage

• Of the water available from West Bank aquifers, Israel uses 73%, West Bank Palestinians use 17%, and illegal Jewish settlers use 10%.
• While 10-14% of Palestine’s GDP is agricultural, 90% of them must rely on rain-fed farming methods. Israel’s agriculture is only 3% of their GDP, but Israel irrigates more than 50% of its land.
• Three million West Bank Palestinians use only 250 million cubic meters per year (83 cubic meters per Palestinian per year) while six million Israelis enjoy the use of 1,954 million cubic meters (333 cubic meters per Israeli per year), which means that each Israeli consumes as much water as four Palestinians. Israeli settlers are allocated 1,450 cubic meters of water per person per year.
• Israel consumes the vast majority of the water from the Jordan River despite only 3% of the river falling within its pre-1967 borders. Israel now diverts one quarter of its total water consumption through its National Water Carrier from the Jordan River, whereas Palestinians have no access to it whatsoever due to Israeli closures.

International Law

• Under international law it is illegal for Israel to expropriate the water of the Occupied Palestinian Territories for use by its own citizens, and doubly illegal to expropriate it for use by illegal Israeli settlers [2].
• Also under international law, Israel owes Palestinians reparations for past and continuing use of water resources. This should include interest due to loss of earnings from farming.

Israeli Actions

• Israel does not allow new wells to be drilled by Palestinians and has confiscated many wells for Israeli use. Israel sets quotas on how much water can be drawn by Palestinians from existing wells.

• When supplies of water are low in the summer months, the Israeli water company Mekorot closes the valves which supply Palestinian towns and villages so as not to affect Israeli supplies. This means that illegal Israeli settlers can have their swimming pools topped up and lawns watered while Palestinians living next to them, on whose land the settlements are situated, do not have enough water for drinking and cooking.
• Israel often sells the water it steals from the West Bank back to the Palestinians at inflated prices.
• During the war of 1967, 140 Palestinian wells in the Jordan Valley were destroyed to divert water through Israel’s National Water Carrier. Palestinians were allowed to dig only 13 wells between 1967 and 1996, less than the number of wells which dried up during the same period due to Israel’s refusal to deepen or rehabilitate existing wells.
• The Gaza strip relies predominately on wells that are being increasingly infiltrated by salty sea water because Israel is over-pumping the groundwater. UN scientists estimate that Gaza will have no drinkable water within fifteen years.

Settlers

• In Madama village 50km north of Jerusalem settlers from Yizhar settlement have repeatedly vandalized the villager’s only source of water. They have poured concrete into it, vandalized the connecting pipes and even dropped disposable diapers and other hazardous waste into the springs. Three villagers have been attacked by settlers while trying to repair the water source [3].
• Constant settler attacks on the community of Yanoun, Nablus governorate, located next to the Itamar settlement, peaked in October 2002 when masked settlers charged into the village with dogs and caused significant damage to the water network, several roof tanks, and the local spring, which is considered to be the main source of water for the community. The main line supplying water to the community from the main spring, as well as the pump, reservoir, fittings and valves were all damaged by settlers. Residents of the community were forced to buy water from tankers from the neighboring community. Tanker access was very difficult due to Israeli closures and checkpoints as well as settler threats and terror which included shootings, beatings, and harassment [4].

Water and the Wall

• Many of the most important underground wellsprings in the West Bank are located just to the east of the Green Line dividing Israel from Palestine. Israel has built the Wall not only to annex land but also to annex many of these wells in order to divert water to Israel and illegal West Bank settlements.
• The Wall is not only an Apartheid Wall, but also a water wall. Some of the largest Israeli settlements (such as Ariel and Qedumin) are built over the Western mountain aquifer, directly in the middle of the northern West Bank agricultural districts, and this is exactly where the wall cuts deepest into Palestinian territory to surround and annex this vital water source.
• The building of the Wall has caused the village of Falamya in Qalqiliya district to lose its main source of water. In Jayyous, a village near Falamya, all of its seven water wells have been annexed or destroyed by the Apartheid Wall.
• In the West Bank, around 50 groundwater wells and over 200 cisterns have been destroyed or isolated from their owners by the Wall. This water was used for domestic and agricultural needs by over 122,000 people. To build the Wall, 25 wells and cisterns and 35,000 meters of water pipes have also been destroyed [5].
• In 2003, the losses incurred by Palestinian farmers due to the Wall diverting water resources has been 2,200 tons of olive oil, 50,000 tons of fruit, and 100,000 tons of vegetables [6].
• The Wall is obstructing many water run-off flows in the Qalqiliya region that normally divert water to prevent flooding. During heavy rains in February 2005, Israeli soldiers refused to open drainage pipes in Qalqiliya, which led to heavy flood damage to crops and homes there. The Wall also caused severe flooding in Zububa and other villages.

Under the conditions brought about by the siege imposed by Israeli occupation forces, civilians in the occupied territories are suffering from lack of access to necessary resources for the maintenance of their daily needs and basic health. We have reached a state of emergency in the water sector in the Occupied Territories. We must call for an immediate end to the siege upon the water sector.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/water.html

yes, i imagine how people come out after their sunday services spreading hate wars in IOW. yes, we daily watch them burning cars, demolishing the streets, cities.

oh, boy!

Robert Fisk: The rotten state of Egypt is too powerless and corrupt to act

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-rotten-state-of-egypt-is-too-powerless-and-corrupt-to-act-1220048.html

Mark Steel: So what have the Palestinians got to complain about?

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mark-steel/mark-steel-so-what-have-the-palestinians-got-to-complain-about-1218135.html

I deleted my comment, I decided that despite its brilliance, I should not attempt at humor in this thread. (Consider yourself lucky Femm, XOX).

Oh, the youth nowadays! Reading comprehension used to be such a useful skill . Let me break it down for you:

-you´re wrong as always

better now?

Oh, I didn´t know that! I thought that the innocent side had something to do with Hamas which is a terrorist organisation. I thought it was about lack of proportion but there are bad folks on both sides. Thanks for making it clear that there´s a flock of peace-loving Palestinians and evil, warmongering Jews

DD if you read what you quoted again, that´s not what she said

It´s hard to find something constructive to say about this seemingly endless "conflict" other than it should END

What pisses me off the most about this whole thinmg, is Syria´s attitude towards Egypt, calling us traitors and stuff, the whole arab world thinks egypt set this up with Israel, caus ethe Israeli lady thing (what is she?/) announced while on a visist in egypt that theyll be bombing, theyre saying that we should go into war with israel, what they dont get is that egypt has been fighting for palestine since 1948 in the palestine war (huuuuuuge losses) in1967 for syria, and lots of other time, the only time egypt wnt into war for itself was in 1973 and that was BECAUSE of wht happened in 1967, we lost 120 000 soldiers, and u know what, we dont have the resources or capability to go into war, were freegin POOOOOOOOR! ( what are u gonna do about the truth? Miht as well admit it )

Were doing the most that we can do, palestenians are entering egypt to get medical traetment fro free, and the blood donation peole for Gaza are everywhere in the streets, and people stand behind them in linesssss, palestenian want to enter egypt but we cant let them all come in , no matter how sory i feel for them, i wish they all could, but we dont have the reources to help them , they have no where to stay, we wont be able to handle these huge capacities, and then theyll make war bases from here and hamas ´ll satrt bombing here, and israel ´ll say, well, youve got our enemies and well be the only losing side in the end!

In school we all came wearing those palestenian thingies, th black and white triangle things they put on their backs ( no idea what theyre called!)

ANYWAY!

oh yeah i remeberd smthg!

When on the news they were talkign to this Israeli offcial and they said they wont stop bombing, the lady asked her why, she said they killed our civilians (Hamas, who have nthg to do with the innocent civilians!) the ;ady told her, well how many did their missles kill? whats the no? she wouldnt answer her, the lady kept telling her, u killed and injured (No.) and made (no.) homelss etc etc, the lady never answered, she just said we have the right to defend ourselves, why in the world are they refusing immediate truth?

Why are they usin all their resources and huge missles and ships etc etc so much and all at once?

To gain time of course! To take over as much land as possible until they finally accept the truth, so in the end they dont look bad!

Poor people!!!

One of our teachers his wife is palestenian, if u saw how he was youd cry! He actually cried in the middle of the session, i was gonna cry! His wife´s relatives died!!!

I have nthg else to say!!

NO COMMENT!!!

ITS JUST NOT FAIR!!!

SOOOOOOOOOOOO True!!

Ok now, this what i think about this article:

And now – after three decades of Hosni Mubarak – can Mubarak (or "La Vache Qui Rit", as he is still called in Cairo)

Ok loooooool! Thats true

restrain the anger of his people? The answer, of course, is that Egyptians and Kuwaitis and Jordanians will be allowed to shout in the streets of their capitals – but then they will be shut down, with the help of the tens of thousands of secret policemen and government militiamen who serve the princes and kings and elderly rulers of the Arab world.

TRUE

Egyptians demand that Mubarak open the Rafah crossing-point into Gaza, break off diplomatic relations with Israel,

TRUE

even send weapons to Hamas

FALSE!!!!

when he comes and lives here and sits with us then he cans ay what he wants!

i)To admit that Egypt can´t even open its sovereign border without permission from Washington tells you all you need to know about the powerlessness of the satraps that run the Middle East for us.

PAthetic! Yet TRUE

ii)To admit that Egypt can´t even open its sovereign border without permission from Washington tells you all you need to know about the powerlessness of the satraps that run the Middle East for us.

what does this tell u??

----------------------------------------------------------

The true disgrace of Egypt, however, is not in its response to the slaughter in Gaza. It is the corruption that has become embedded in an Egyptian society where the idea of service – health, education, genuine security for ordinary people – has simply ceased to exist.

TRUE!! AND This siw aht ppl complain abput! Taht our souls mean nthg to0t hem! They look at us like animals (the government!1)

It´s a land where the first duty of the police is to protect the regime, where protesters are beaten up by the security police, where young women objecting to Mubarak´s endless regime – likely to be passed on caliph-like to his son Gamal, whatever we may be told – are sexually molested by plain-clothes agents, where prisoners in the Tora-Tora complex are forced to rape each other by their guards.

NO, no, i think im being pretty honest here, this sint right, i thought thats what they used to say about SAddam, but probably his son Gamal will be the next ruler :S

There has developed in Egypt a kind of religious facade in which the meaning of Islam has become effaced by its physical representation. Egyptian civil "servants" and government officials are often scrupulous in their religious observances – yet they tolerate and connive in rigged elections, violations of the law and prison torture. A young American doctor described to me recently how in a Cairo hospital busy doctors merely blocked doors with plastic chairs to prevent access to patients. In November, the Egyptian newspaper Al-Masry al-Youm reported how doctors abandoned their patients to attend prayers during Ramadan.

 Its partially true, about how the public now is seeing Islam in the wrong way, and how much weve changed, it was just an article in the papers recently, but tghis guy is exaggerating.... Im SOOOOOOO SAD!

And amid all this, Egyptians have to live amid daily slaughter by their own shabby infrastructure. Alaa al-Aswani wrote eloquently in the Cairo paper Al-Dastour that the regime´s "martyrs" outnumber all the dead of Egypt´s wars against Israel – victims of railway accidents, ferry sinkings, the collapse of city buildings, sickness, cancers and pesticide poisonings – all victims, as Aswani says, "of the corruption and abuse of power". Opening the Rafah border-crossing for wounded Palestinians – the Palestinian medical staff being pushed back into their Gaza prison once the bloodied survivors of air raids have been dumped on Egyptian territory – is not going to change the midden in which Egyptians themselves live.

woooooooooow! how true is that, its soo sad, its exactly what i was aying about how cheap our souls are, the government doesnt give a damn! !!

Sayed Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbollah secretary general in Lebanon, felt able to call on Egyptians to "rise in their millions" to open the border with Gaza, but they will not do so. Ahmed Aboul Gheit, the feeble Egyptian Foreign Minister, could only taunt the Hizbollah leaders by accusing them of trying to provoke "an anarchy similar to the one they created in their own country."

But he is well-protected. So is President Mubarak.(im guessing u know by whom)

Egypt´s malaise is in many ways as dark as that of the Palestinians. Its impotence in the face of Gaza´s suffering is a symbol of its own political sickness.

ok... now im crying!!!!! CAuse it ssooooo true! I knew that it was true before, btu its like i had to hear it from somewhere else to make it hurt even more!I ahve nooo comment other than F U MUBARAK! This is all ur fault! Life wa sgreat b4 u came! I hope u see thsia dn come and arest me or smthg1 ( ITS NOT fUNNY!!!!)

The massacre at Deir Yassin is one of some two dozen documented massacres of Palestinian civilians by Zionist forces seeking to transform Palestine into a Jewish state. If the import of catastrophes were gauged only in numbers of people slaughtered, Deir Yassin may not have taken on its central role in the Palestinian national consciousness. However, the terror at Deir Yassin triggered a mass flight of Palestinians who feared for their own lives. When Israel was established sixty years ago this May, more than 700,000 Palestinians lost their homes and belongings, their farms and businesses, their towns and cities. Jewish militias, and later, the Israeli army, drove them out. Israel rapidly moved Jews into the newly-emptied Palestinian homes. This tragic event and its consequences lie at the core of the Palestinian/Israeli problem.

1. What happened in the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin and why does it matter today?

In the early morning of April 9, 1948, three Zionist militias - the Haganah, Irgun and Stern Gang — attacked the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin, located west of Jerusalem. More than 100 men, women and children were massacred. Some were mutilated and raped before being murdered. Twenty-five men from the village were paraded through Jerusalem and then executed in a nearby quarry. Those able to escape fled to East Jerusalem.

Word of the terror attacks spread rapidly, causing many Palestinians to flee, fearing for their lives. Within a year of the massacre, Deir Yassin, which had been emptied of Palestinians, was re-populated with Jewish immigrants and its name was removed from the map.

For Palestinians, Deir Yassin became the symbol of the sudden loss of their homes and homeland and the near destruction of their society, a situation which endures until today. When Israel was established sixty years ago, more than 700,000 Palestinians were exiled and 78 percent of the land of historic Palestine was lost.

Today, Palestinian refugees number nearly four million, out of a total population of approximately ten million. They are still deprived of their internationally-recognized right to return to their homeland. In the West Bank, Israel continues to seize land for Israeli-only settlements and Israeli-only roads.

2. Who carried out the massacre?

The Haganah, which became the Israeli army, fired mortars at the village while the Irgun and Stern Gang attacked from close range. At the time of the massacre, David Ben-Gurion, Israel´s 1st prime minister, directed Haganah policy; Menachem Begin, Israel´s 6th prime minister, led the Irgun; and Yitzhak Shamir, Israel´s 7th prime minister, was a leader of the Stern Gang.

3. What resulted from the Deir Yassin massacre?

As news of the massacre spread, the ensuing terror triggered the mass flight of Palestinians. A few days after the attacks, in fact, the Irgun asserted that the incident advanced "terror and dread among the Arabs in all the villages around, in Al Maliha, Qaluniya and Beit Iksa a panic flight began …" The flight of Palestinian refugees fit into the plans of Zionist military and political leaders at the time. During the first week of April, a concerted campaign - known as Plan Dalet - to systematically expel Palestinians from areas sought for the soon-to-be-founded state of Israel went into effect. Zionist forces conducted eight major military operations against Palestinian cities and villages between April 1st and May 15th when Israel declared independence and Arab states intervened in response to the growing refugee crisis. Some 250,000 Palestinians had been expelled by then.

4. Was Deir Yassin an isolated incident?

No. While Deir Yassin may be the most infamous, Israeli historian Benny Morris documents 24 massacres of Palestinians conducted by Zionist, and then Israeli, forces in 1948. According to Morris, "In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field - they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village - she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved. The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-11, Lod (25, Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (7… The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres."

The Irgun and Stern Gang also attacked British and United Nations institutions and officers who they believed stood in the way of the Zionist enterprise in Palestine. The Irgun was responsible for the bombing of the King David Hotel, which was used as British military headquarters, in Jerusalem in 1946. Ninety-one people were killed. The Stern Gang assassinated Lord Moyne, the British minister of state for the Middle East, in 1944, attempted to assassinate Harold MacMichael, the High Commissioner of Palestine, in 1944 and assassinated Count Folke Bernadotte, the United Nations representative in the Middle East, in 1948.

5. What was the total destruction and how it is still relevant today?

In total, at least 450 Palestinian towns and villages were depopulated due to Zionist military attacks or fear of such attacks. Most of these were demolished. By the end of 1948, more than 700,000 Palestinians - two-thirds of the Palestinian population - were exiled and their society was destroyed. Even today, a Jew from anywhere in the world is welcome to settle in Israel, while Palestinians with the keys and deeds to their seized homes do not enjoy the right to return.

 Despite that US should tell us whether we open the borders or not,i dont agree that we open our borders totally infront of them.

Ý mean,yes we help of course,give medical help,food,welcome injured people in our hospitals,gives them the help that they need,give money,other recources...etc what ever

But we shouldnt open our borders openly

Gaza is problem made by Ýsrael as invader,and that is exactly what Ýsrael wants.

Palestinians leave there and go some where else.

We shouldnt help Ýsrael in doing so...

They attack us now for not opening the borders,but later they will see that we were right about it.

Ýsrael wants make it our problem...where its actually not.

Ýts a problem of land Ýsrael occupys by force and people Ýsrael trys to evacuate them.

Actually Doudi,we are not a poor country,we have many recourse indeed but not used well.

We went through many wars enough to know that war is hell,and its not something ones seek it

But if its forced upon us ,then we would be where we should be.

Plays with matches ?!

Mmmm,well,as far as i know they were already burning there inside,thats why they try to find way out!

Let me remind you that you left Gaza and blocking it from the whole world so its people die there

And again let me remind you this,Hamas was the elected government of palestine which Ýsrael refused

They dont hide behinde women and children,you are fighting them in their land,between their homes..so sure there will be women and children there !

They are not an organized army as you are,they dont have weapons to fight in an organised war

 Mmmmm,btw how many Ýsraeli civilian have been died through the 7 years if i may ask ?!

Look,let´s not fool ourselves here

Where was Ýsrael before 1948 then?!

Ask any Ýsraeli where did you come from,and you will hear many diffent answers

Ask any palestinian where did you and your family came from

You will hear just 1 answer !

So,let´s not talk about whose to blame here

Ýts not a very old history,Ýsrael is just 60 yrs old

So dont try to blame the victims here.

Let´s deal with the facts that we already have,you should both learn how to live together,side by side

And that only would be,by giving the Palestinians their lands acourding to the UN decision

And btw,we, Egypt took our land back after we went to war...not before that ,you didnt give it to us in exchange of peace or something without splitting blood there and signing a peace treaty!

As far as I´m concerned, I don´t see ANY excuse for stealing someone´s land and all valuable resources, kicking them out of their homes and naming them "terrorists" for resistance!

I think that Hamas is a similar phenomenon to PKK, except more dramatic and most Turkish people seem to understand why it came to existance.

For example, Condoleezza Rice, having observed that more than 300 Gazans were dead, said: "We are deeply concerned about the escalating violence. We strongly condemn the attacks on Israel and hold Hamas responsible."

Someone should ask her to comment on teenage knife-crime, to see if she´d say: "I strongly condemn the people who´ve been stabbed, and until they abandon their practice of wandering around clutching their sides and bleeding, there is no hope for peace."

good observation! I´ve been thinking the same when I was listening to the news today!

 They will NOT see the similarity of course...

 what she wrote was stupid and not funny at all, thats why she quickly deleted it

but, what can i say? little people make little people laugh. they fit each other.

 You should admire your enemies as much as your friends darling.  Keep them close and take care of them

 who said i dont admire tami?

 Well I think he prefers me, but if you like I can try to get you two together?

 i have to disagree here, you dont choose or prefer enemies

 Are we fighting over Tam now?

 you see fight in everything! you know that i wouldnt fight you over young fresh sexy turks

 No, you are right.  If I was going to fight you it would have to be for a very good reason

(hmmmm however.... they do sound tempting! )

Dane held for ´shooting Israelis´

A Danish man of Palestinian origin has been arrested on suspicion of shooting and wounding two Israeli salesmen at a shopping centre in Odense in Denmark.

Police said they were unsure what the motive was, but Danish media have speculated it may have been a protest against Israeli air raids in Gaza.

The 27-year-old suspect turned himself in. He reportedly denies trying to kill the men but admits carrying a gun.

The men were shot on Wednesday while selling hair products.

One was hit in the arm and the other in the leg.

They were both still in hospital on Thursday but their injuries were not life-threatening, Reuters news agency reported.

Police said the pair had been in Denmark for about a week.

The attack came on the fifth day of Israeli air strikes against Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip, which Israel says were provoked by Palestinian rocket attacks.

Four Israelis have been killed by Palestinian rockets fired into Israel since the campaign began on Saturday, while medical sources say more than 400 Palestinians have now been killed in Gaza.

a source here in case LIR wants to persecute me again (because of a rule that was made to satisfy alameda)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7807799.stm

The article that caused the UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian Territories to be DENIED ENTRY to Israel 2 weeks ago…he was predicting exactly what we are seeing today…more death and destruction and occupation.

 

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
William Butler Yeats, The Second Coming

 

There is little doubt that the Nazi Holocaust was as close to unconditional evil as has been revealed throughout the entire bloody history of the human species. Its massiveness, unconcealed genocidal intent, and reliance on the mentality and instruments of modernity give its enactment in the death camps of Europe a special status in our moral imagination. This special status is exhibited in the continuing presentation of its gruesome realities through film, books, and a variety of cultural artifacts more than six decades after the events in question ceased. The permanent memory of the Holocaust is also kept alive by the existence of several notable museums devoted exclusively to the depiction of the horrors that took place during the period of Nazi rule in Germany.

Against this background, it is especially painful for me, as an American Jew, to feel compelled to portray the ongoing and intensifying abuse of the Palestinian people by Israel through a reliance on such an inflammatory metaphor as ´holocaust.´ The word is derived from the Greek holos (meaning ´completely´ and kaustos (meaning ´burnt´, and was used in ancient Greece to refer to the complete burning of a sacrificial offering to a divinity. Because such a background implies a religious undertaking, there is some inclination in Jewish literature to prefer the Hebrew word ´Shoah´ that can be translated roughly as ´calamity,´ and was the name given to the 1985 epic nine-hour narration of the Nazi experience by the French filmmaker, Claude Lanzmann. The Germans themselves were more antiseptic in their designation, officially naming their undertaking as the ´Final Solution of the Jewish Qestion.´ The label is, of course, inaccurate as a variety of non-Jewish identities were also targets of this genocidal assault, including the Roma and Sinti(´gypsies), Jehovah Witnesses, gays, disabled persons, political opponents.

Is it an irresponsible overstatement to associate the treatment of Palestinians with this criminalized Nazi record of collective atrocity? I think not. The recent developments in Gaza are especially disturbing because they express so vividly a deliberate intention on the part of Israel and its allies to subject an entire human community to life-endangering conditions of utmost cruelty. The suggestion that this pattern of conduct is a holocaust-in-the-making represents a rather desperate appeal to the governments of the world and to international public opinion to act urgently to prevent these current genocidal tendencies from culminating in a collective tragedy. If ever the ethos of ´a responsibility to protect,´ recently adopted by the UN Security Council as the basis of ´humanitarian intervention´ is applicable, it would be to act now to start protecting the people of Gaza from further pain and suffering. But it would be unrealistic to expect the UN to do anything in the face of this crisis, given the pattern of US support for Israel and taking into account the extent to which European governments have lent their weight to recent illicit efforts to crush Hamas as a Palestinian political force.

Even if the pressures exerted on Gaza were to be acknowledged as having genocidal potential and even if Israel´s impunity under America´s geopolitical umbrella is put aside, there is little assurance that any sort of protective action in Gaza would be taken. There were strong advance signals in 1994 of a genocide to come in Rwanda, and yet nothing was done to stop it; the UN and the world watched while the 1995 Srebrenica massacre of Bosnians took place, an incident that the World Court described as ´genocide´ a few months ago; similarly, there have been repeated allegations of genocidal conduct in Darfur over the course of the last several years, and hardly an international finger has been raised, either to protect those threatened or to resolve the conflict in some manner that shares power and resources among the contending ethnic groups.

But Gaza is morally far worse, although mass death has not yet resulted. It is far worse because the international community is watching the ugly spectacle unfold while some of its most influential members actively encourage and assist Israel in its approach to Gaza. Not only the United States, but also the European Union, are complicit, as are such neighbors as Egypt and Jordan apparently motivated by their worries that Hamas is somehow connected with their own problems associated with the rising strength of the Muslim Brotherhood within their own borders. It is helpful to recall that the liberal democracies of Europe paid homage to Hitler at the 1936 Olympic Games, and then turned away tens of thousands of Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany. I am not suggesting that the comparison should be viewed as literal, but to insist that a pattern of criminality associated with Israeli policies in Gaza has actually been supported by the leading democracies of the 21st century.

To ground these allegations, it is necessary to consider the background of the current situation. For over four decades, ever since 1967, Gaza has been occupied by Israel in a manner that turned this crowded area into a cauldron of pain and suffering for the entire population on a daily basis, with more than half of Gazans living in miserable refugees camps and even more dependent on humanitarian relief to satisfy basic human needs. With great fanfare, under Sharon´s leadership, Israel supposedly ended its military occupation and dismantled its settlements in 2005. The process was largely a sham as Israel maintained full control over borders, air space, offshore seas, as well as asserted its military control of Gaza, engaging in violent incursions, sending missiles to Gaza at will on assassination missions that themselves violate international humanitarian law, and managing to kill more than 300 Gazan civilians since its supposed physical departure.

As unacceptable as is this earlier part of the story, a dramatic turn for the worse occurred when Hamas prevailed in the January 2006 national legislative elections. It is a bitter irony that Hamas was encouraged, especially by Washington, to participate in the elections to show its commitment to a political process (as an alternative to violence) and then was badly punished for having the temerity to succeed. These elections were internationally monitored under the leadership of the former American president, Jimmy Carter, and pronounced as completely fair.

Carter has recently termed this Israeli/American refusal to accept the outcome of such a democratic verdict as itself ´criminal.´ It is also deeply discrediting of the campaign of the Bush presidency to promote democracy in the region, an effort already under a dark shadow in view of the policy failure in Iraq.

After winning the Palestinian elections, Hamas was castigated as a terrorist organization that had not renounced violence against Israel and had refused to recognize the Jewish state as a legitimate political entity. In fact, the behavior and outlook of Hamas is quite different. From the outset of its political Hamas was ready to work with other Palestinian groups, especially Fatah and Mahmoud Abbas, to establish a ´unity´ government. More than this, their leadership revealed a willingness to move toward an acceptance of Israel´s existence if Israel would in turn agree to move back to its 1967 borders, implementing finally unanimous Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

Even more dramatically, Hamas proposed a ten-year truce with Israel, and went so far as to put in place a unilateral ceasefire that lasted for eighteen months, and was broken only to engage in rather pathetic strikes mainly taking place in response to Israeli violent provocations in Gaza. As Efraim Halevi, former head of Israel´s Mossad was reported to have said, ´What Isreal needs from Hamas is an end to violence, not diplomatic recognition.´ And this is precisely what Hamas offered and what Israel rejected.

The main weapon available to Hamas, and other Palestinian extremist elements, were Qassam missiles that resulted in producing no more than 12 Israeli deaths in six years. While each civilian death is an unacceptable tragedy, the ratio of death and injury for the two sides in so unequal as to call into question the security logic of continuously inflicting excessive force and collective punishment on the entire beleaguered Gazan population, which is accurately regarded as the world´s largest ´prison.´

Instead of trying diplomacy and respecting democratic results, Israel and the United States used their leverage to reverse the outcome of the 2006 elections by organizing a variety of international efforts designed to make Hamas fail in its attempts to govern in Gaza. Such efforts were reinforced by the related unwillingness of the defeated Fatah elements to cooperate with Hamas in establishing a government that would be representative of Palestinians as a whole. The main anti-Hamas tactic relied upon was to support Abbas as the sole legitimate leader of the Palestinian people, to impose an economic boycott on the Palestinians generally, to send in weapons for Fatah militias and to enlist neighbors in these efforts, particularly Egypt and Jordan. The United States Government appointed a special envoy, Lt. Gen. Keith Dayton, to work with Abbas forces, and helped channel $40 million to buildup the Presidential Guard, which were the Fatah forces associated with Abbas.

This was a particularly disgraceful policy. Fatah militias, especially in Gaza, had long been wildly corrupt and often used their weapons to terrorize their adversaries and intimidate the population in a variety of thuggish ways. It was this pattern of abuse by Fatah that was significantly responsible for the Hamas victory in the 2006 elections, along with the popular feelings that Fatah, as a political actor, had neither the will nor capacity to achieve results helpful to the Palestinian people, while Hamas had managed resistance and community service efforts that were widely admired by Gazans.

The latest phase of this external/internal dynamic was to induce civil strife in Gaza that led a complete takeover by Hamas forces. With standard irony, a set of policies adopted by Israel in partnership with the United States once more produced exactly the opposite of their intended effects. The impact of the refusal to honor the election results has after 18 months made Hamas much stronger throughout the Palestinian territories, and put it in control of Gaza. Such an outcome is reminiscent of a similar effect of the 2006 Lebanon War that was undertaken by the Israel/United States strategic partnership to destroy Hezbollah, but had the actual consequence of making Hezbollah a much stronger, more respected force in Lebanon and throughout the region.

The Israel and the United States seemed trapped in a faulty logic that is incapable of learning from mistakes, and takes every setback as a sign that instead of shifting course, the faulty undertaking should be expanded and intensified, that failure resulted from doing too little of the right thing, rather than is the case, doing the wrong thing. So instead of taking advantage of Hamas´ renewed call for a unity government, its clarification that it is not against Fatah, but only that "[w]e have fought against a small clique within Fatah," (Abu Ubaya, Hamas military commander), Israel seems more determined than ever to foment civil war in Palestine, to make the Gazans pay with their wellbeing and lives to the extent necessary to crush their will, and to separate once and for all the destinies of Gaza and the West Bank.

The insidious new turn of Israeli occupation policy is as follows: push Abbas to rely on hard-line no compromise approach toward Hamas, highlighted by the creation of an unelected ´emergency´ government to replace the elected leadership. The emergency designated prime minister, Salam Fayyad, appointed to replace the Hamas leader, Ismail Haniya, as head of the Palestinian Authority. It is revealing to recall that when Fayyad´s party was on the 2006 election list its candidates won only 2% of the vote. Israel is also reportedly ready to ease some West Bank restrictions on movement in such a way as to convince Palestinians that they can have a better future if they repudiate Hamas and place their bets on Abbas, by now a most discredited political figure who has substantially sold out the Palestinian cause to gain favor and support from Israel/United States, as well as to prevail in the internal Palestinian power struggle.

 

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2008/12/28/richard-falk-slouching-toward-a-palestinian-holocaust/

 

Tens of thousands in London protest Gaza offensive

Demonstrators throw shoes at Downing Street as Muslim symbol of disgust at Israeli attacks..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/03/gaza-israel-protest-shoes-london

  Toni Benn, George Galloway and Annie Lennox

Canim, Palestinians´ land and homes were STOLEN from them by Israel, does that make ANY difference to you!?

+999 999 999 999 999 999 9999

This is a wonderful summary 

I want to add more pictures here actually

i think i have spoken hundreds of times on this issue. and i think you should gain some knowledge on this subject before accusing someone for stealing.

 canim, where were those so called palestinians when israel was established in 1915 and declared a nation in 1948?

can you answer this question? if you can, then im ready to debate.

israel exists and will carry on as a state no matter what others think.

you just have to admit its existance and live in peace, if you cant admit it then theres something wrong with your head.

 it must be stinking now there

I think, if I am not wrong, i gave you the population of palestine (a document from ottoman archives) just before 1915 Femme..

Dont you remember that? 

The question is where were those jews before 1948!!!

 i deleted it and sent in a pm to you, hairy.

 btw, pls, dont involve between me and kitty.

the questions were directed to cat. i want her to speak.

Of course we could talk about this, but I don´t debate with evangelizers. You are not honest on this issue canim. And you choose to demonize all muslims and not accept the fact that one of the big reasons why the Arab/muslim world is what it is right now, is western politics. They don´t hate us because "we are rich and free" (huge ), as the Fox and friends propaganda likes to say.

 cctv footage..... police have put gas masks on!

 then i have nothing to talk about with you. goodbye.

Israeli troops ´move into Gaza´

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7809959.stm

Where is Hezbollah? are they going to watch only?

Some news about Hezbollah: (Hezbollah studying whether to join Hamas fight)

 http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=85055

I am on a chair..

 I am on lemsip

According to TheHandsome you´re on a lamsip

BBC  Dec. 20,   2008

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7792654.stm

pictures tell mor than words:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28435441/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/9/

So sad, so tragic, so much hate and pain in those faces.....STOP this insanity....!!! .....it goes on and on and on.

Riot police called out in London as protest ends in skirmishes

Riot police were dispatched to the Israeli embassy in London last night as a day of protests across Europe degenerated into ugly skirmishes.

In London Israeli flags were set ablaze and surging crowds were penned back by police with shields and batons. Some protesters were in tears, claiming they were being stopped from leaving peacefully, and organisers said they would complain about police heavy-handedness. Others, growing more aggressive as news of Israel´s ground invasion spread, threw missiles while police tried to drive them back. Late into the evening, several hundred were still staring down officers outside the embassy.

The London ambulance service said it had helped one man with a head injury and others with minor bruises after sending a team of 25 to the scene.

Tens of thousands initially took to the streets, even as Israeli forces were firing shells from the border of Gaza. In London, where the largest rally was held, Trafalgar Square turned to a sea of black, white, red and green – Palestinian national colours – as what organisers claimed were up to 55,000 people showed up in the largest British demonstration for the Palestinian cause. Police claimed the size of the protest was far lower.

In the crowd was the singer Annie Lennox, the comedian Alexei Sayle, Tony Benn and George Galloway. Lennox told the crowd: "We are looking at a huge human rights tragedy in front of us. The idea of an air assault combined with a ground war in such a tightly packed area as Gaza is unimaginable. It will be a bloodbath. Hopefully now we will see dialogue, dialogue, dialogue."

The thrust of the protest was aimed at the British government´s inaction over the Israeli attacks on Gaza, as the onslaught started its second week. One marcher, Omar Lemrini, 45, helped to carry a fake coffin covered in images of dead civilians and children. "This is the second Holocaust," he said. "It´s a question of conscience now."

Some 30 organisations, including the British Muslim Initiative, the Stop the War Coalition and the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, joined forces for the protest. Hemmed in by police, the marchers resorted to the symbolic throwing of shoes into Downing Street. Hundreds of old shoes were hurled over barriers and gates to represent the Palestinian lives lost in the bombing. The gesture echoed the protest by Iraqi journalist Muntadar al-Zaidi, who threw his shoes at President Bush last month in protest at US "war crimes".

David Carr, 45, a nurse, contorted his face in fury as he picked up his battered brown shoe and tossed it over the railings: "I helped search for the people who were injured in the London bomb blast, so I know what it means," he said. Two people broke through the police barrier to make a dash for Downing Street.

The protests were mirrored elsewhere with marches in France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Spain, Holland and Turkey. In Edinburgh and Glasgow, around 1,000 were involved in marches which police said passed peacefully. In Paris, 20,000 demonstrators descended on the city centre chanting "Israeli murder".

THE INDEPENDENT

UNITED NATIONS – The United States late Saturday blocked approval of a U.N. Security Council statement calling for an immediate cease-fire between Israel and Gaza´s Hamas rulers, diplomats said.

Egypt´s U.N. Ambassador Maged Abdelaziz said it was regrettable that one permanent council member — a clear reference to the U.S. — refused to accept any statement at a time when "the aggression is escalating and more people are dying and the military attack on the ground is at its full scale."

More than 480 Palestinians have been killed and nearly 3,000 injured in Gaza, and four people have been killed in Israel.

US blocks UN statement on Gaza

what can be said here.... clearly, there is no god! thank you Britain for creating Israel!

 I thought this a rather sweeping statement initially but based on this.....

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/05/triple_cross_how_britain_creat.html

.... I suppose you are right

Britain conquered Palestine from the Turks in 1917-18. First Her Majesty´s Government promised Palestine to the Jews in the Balfour Declaration in 1917, and then again in the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine of 1922, in which it solemnly accepted as "a sacred trust of civilization" to "be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home." Then it repudiated that promise in a "White Paper" of 1939, which announced her intention to allow only 75,000 Jewish immigrants into Palestine over the next five years (this as World War II and the Holocaust was just beginning) and after that to allow no further Jewish immigration without Arab consent. The White Paper also placed severe restrictions on the purchase of land by Jews. And it promised the Palestinian Arabs that Palestine would become an independent Arab state within ten years. All this was in flagrant violations of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine; the League of Nations Mandates Commission noted this, and refused to ratify the White Paper. Britain implemented it anyway -- to the extent of refusing to admit to Palestine 750 Jews who had managed to escape Nazi Europe in a leaky boat while the Holocaust was in full swing. The Jews were forced to turn back into the human-shark-infested waters of the Black Sea, where their leaky crate was torpedoed, and all but one of them killed.

Other Jews who managed to reach the shores of Palestine were deported by the British Navy to the remote island of Mauritius and kept in a detention camp, where many of them died of disease before finally being released after the end of the war. This British measure was strangely reminiscent of an earlier Nazi plan to deport the Jews of Europe to Madagascar, a larger island in the Indian Ocean not far from Mauritius. Still the British detained other Jews who managed to board ships bound for Palestine for years in camps on Cyprus. This was the way His Majesty´s Government kept its promises to the Jews.

Having already promised Palestine to both the Jews and the Palestinian Arabs, Britain after World War II promised it again, this time to Syria! Secret British correspondence, recently discovered by an Israeli scholar, not in the archives of Britain but in those of France, which intercepted British and Syrian communications through espionage, reveals that the British promised to hand over Palestine to Syria in return for making Britain Syria´s "protector" to replace France. The British even assisted the Syrians to carry out a massacre of French civilians and soldiers in order to force France out of Syria.

Interesting article Lessluv.. thanks for sharing.

Israel to treat more injured Gazans

Over 400 Palestinians have been killed and some 1,700 wounded since the beginning of IDF Operation Cast Lead last Saturday. The offensive targets Hamas in the Strip.

Earlier in the week, a seven-year-old Gaza boy who suffered a serious head wound in IAF air strikes was rushed through the Erez Crossing and taken to Schneider Children´s Medical Center in Petah Tikva.

The boy, whose transfer was facilitated by the Peres Peace Center, was in critical condition in the intensive care unit on Wednesday night.

Meanwhile, Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, which favors the transfer of Gaza civilians hurt in the bombings, said the Palestinian Authority is unwilling to pay for their medical care in Israel because Hamas is responsible.

The PHR-Israel has urged the PA to facilitate such transfers immediately and argue later about who would finance the treatment to save their lives.

Three other wounded children were also transferred via the Erez Crossing, with help from UNRWA.

Twenty Gazans suffering from serious illnesses unrelated to the fighting were allowed through on Wednesday for treatment in Israeli hospitals.

a source for my persecutor LIR

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230733148165&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

 finally something objective on this subject.

i should add that this article now demonizes britain

That is worse than DRESDEN, at least people could flee there, but this is unspeakable, you comment is correct, Catwoman, NEREDE ALLAH???

Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?

OH, YES, THEY ARE, RABBIS TURNED ON  LOUSSPEAKERS AND FELT HAPPY WITH ALL THE OTHER FANATICS

Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?

A Palestinian in Gaza chronicles life under Israeli bombardment

Palestinians survey the aftermath of an Israeli missile strike on the Rafah refugee camp in Gaza. Photograph: Khalil Kamra/AP

Saturday 27 DecemberI go to visit friends in the Block J neighbourhood in Rafah in the south of the Gaza Strip. While I am in a friend´s house, my phone rings. It´s a friend from Gaza City, calling for a chat. Suddenly I hear the sound of an explosion at his end. At the same time I hear an explosion in Rafah too. Just outside, somewhere near. My friend says: "Fida, they are attacking nearby." I say: "They are attacking here too."

 

I run into the street and everybody is running, children and grown-ups, all looking to see if their relatives and friends are alive. It is the time for children to go to school for the second shift, after the first shift finishes at 11.30am.Naama is aged 13. This is what she tells me: "I was sitting in the classroom with my friends when the attack happened. We were scared and we ran out of our school. Our headmaster asked us to go home. We saw fire everywhere."

People are looking at the remains of a police station. There are still bodies under the wreckage. It is scary because the attack isn´t over, and from where we are we can see an Israeli airplane attacking another police station.

At the hospital, I speak to a wounded police officer, aged 39. "We were at the police station," he said. "The Israeli planes came and suddenly the building collapsed on us. I saw four dead bodies near me. They were in pieces. Outside there were more bodies. Everyone was shouting. I lost consciousness and then found myself in hospital."

Later I am at home with my family. We´ve just received a phone call on our land line. It´s the Israeli defence ministry, and they say that any house that has guns or weapons will be targeted next, without warning and without any announcement. Just to let you know, we don´t have any weapons in our house. If we die please defend my family.

Sunday 28 December

I wake up at 7am after an Israeli F-16 attack. Our house is shaking. We all try to imagine what has happened, but we want to at least know where the attack was. It is so scary. We try to open the main door to our flat, but it´s stuck shut after the attack. I have to climb out of the window to leave the house. I am shocked when I find out our neighbour´s pharmacy was the target. It is just 60 metres from our house. They targeted a pharmacy. I still can´t believe it.

Om Mohammed says: "They [Israeli forces] attack everywhere. They have gone crazy. The Gaza Strip is just going to die ... it´s going to die. We were sleeping. Suddenly we heard a bomb. We woke up and we didn´t know where to go. We couldn´t see through the dust. We called to each other. We thought our house had been hit, not the street. What can I say? You saw it with your own eyes. What is our guilt? Are we terrorists? I don´t carry a gun, neither does my girl.

"There´s no medicine. No drinks, no water, no gas. We are suffering from hunger. They attack us. What does Israel want? Can it be worse than this? I don´t think so. Would they accept this for themselves?

"Look at the children. What are they guilty of? They were sleeping at 7am. All the night they didn´t sleep. This child was traumatised during the attack. Do they have rockets to attack with?"

Monday 29 December

The Israeli army is destroying the tunnels that go from Rafah into Egypt. For the past year and a half the Israeli government has intensified the economic blockade of Gaza by closing all the border crossings that allow aid and essential supplies to reach Palestinians in Gaza. This forced Palestinians to dig tunnels to Egypt to survive. From our house we can hear the explosions and the house is shaking.At night we can´t go out. No one goes out. If you go out you will risk your life. You don´t know where the bombs will fall. My mother is so sad. She watches me writing my reports and says: "Fida, will it make any difference?"

Before the attack started we got some food aid from the EU. It´s not much, but it´s enough, we´re not starving. But some of our friends have nothing. My mum warns me: "Fida, don´t leave the house, it´s too dangerous outside." Then she goes out to share our food with the neighbours who have nothing.

Wednesday 31 December

11.40pm: a powerful air strike somewhere nearby. I was sleeping but the blast wakes me up. I see my mum looking from the window. She points at one of the refugee camps. "The attack was there," she said.

I went back to sleep – not because I don´t care, but because I can´t deal with it. If the attack was really aimed at one of the camps that means hundreds are going to be injured or even killed, the houses destroyed. I really can´t imagine it.

Thursday 1 January

In the morning I get up early and call a friend who lives in Alshabora camp. He confirms the attack had hit there and I go to meet him.

It looks like an earthquake. Many houses have been damaged, and many people have been wounded. The people who had escaped injury were trying to clean the place up – they have nowhere else to go. But the biggest shock is when I ask about the target. It was the children´s playground.

"We heard a strong explosion happen, but with all the smoke and the dust we couldn´t see well, and the electricity was off," I am told by a small child.

"We saw everything fall down – the window broke on us. We went downstairs, and people were saying that the playground´s been targeted. This park is not a member of Hamas, it´s a park for playing. It´s for civilians – so why did they attack it?," asks one 12-year-old girl who lives nearby.

The target was a civilian area – but there was no warning, not one phone call from the Israeli army to tell civilians to beware.

I visit the main hospital in Rafah. There are so many injured people, most of them children. In one ward, I meet four children aged five or six. They are in deep shock. They can´t speak, they just look at you.

Only one child could say his name: "Abdel Rahman". That´s all he can say. Otherwise, he just stares. He´s five. His ear was wounded by shrapnel, his head is covered by bandages.

There is a 16-year-old girl also suffering from shrapnel injuries. Three of her brothers were killed; all her family were injured. She looks like a zombie and says nothing at all. Her mother is dying in the intensive care unit.

The hospital manger, Abu Youssef Alnajar, gives the statistics for 1 January: two dead – a young man aged 22 and a woman aged 33; 59 injured – 16 children, 18 women and the rest old people. Most of them had been sleeping when the bombs dropped.

I go back home and the first thing I do is take a shower. I feel really upset after what I have seen. As always I am trying to cope with the situation but sometimes it is too much to deal with.

A short message to the pilots in the Israeli F-16s: does it make you feel happy to kill Palestinian children and women? Do you feel it´s your duty? Killing every child and woman, man and teenager in Gaza? I don´t know what exactly you feel, what exactly you think, but please think of your mother and sister, your son and daughter.

Friday 2 January

I am in the hospital again. An ambulance crew has been called out to help an injured man somewhere near the ruins of the old Gaza airport. He´s a civilian, one of the bedouin who tend their sheep in that area. Four shepherds saw an explosion and went to investigate – when they arrived at the scene there was a second bomb and they were injured. An ambulance managed to rescue three of the men. But one of their friends is still there, bleeding.

The ambulance crew are afraid to go back for him. The wounded man is just 50 metres away from the green line so they are afraid the Israeli soldiers will target them.Outside there are still planes in the air. I have just heard a big explosion on the border area.

• Fida Qishta is a freelance Palestinian television producer and writer based in Gaza´s southern township of Rafah

 

 

Since 1991, the U.S. has released the radioactive atomicity equivalent of at least 400,000 Nagasaki bombs into the global atmosphere. That is 10 times the amount released during atmospheric testing which was the equivalent of 40,000 Hiroshima bombs. Thus, the U.S. has permanently contaminated the global atmosphere with radioactive pollution having a half-life of 2.5 billion years.  Imagine what it has done to the atmosphere and environs of Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Iraq. 

DU weapons are very effective kinetic energy penetrators, but are even more effective bio-weapons. On the battlefield, DU weaponry has three effects on living systems: it is a heavy metal "chemical" poison, it is a "radioactive" poison and it has a "particulate" effect due to the very tiny size of the particles— 0.1 microns and smaller. Cancer starts with one alpha particle under the right conditions. One gram of DU is the size of a period in this sentence and releases 12,000 alpha particles per second.

Today, more than one out of every three veterans from the first Gulf War is permanently disabled. Terry Jemison of the Dept. of Veterans Affairs said that of the 592,561 discharged veterans from the 1991 war in Iraq, 179,310 are receiving disability compensation and another 24,763 cases are pending. In August of 2004, Jemison stated in that the number of Gulf-era veterans on medical disability has reached 518,000 and that the number of those who have died from “Gulf War Syndrome” is estimated at 10,000.

The "epigenetic damage" (damage to DNA) done by DU has resulted in many grossly deformed children born in areas where tons of DU have contaminated the environment and the local population. According to the scientists, these malformations of humans will continue for at least the next FOUR BILLION YEARS, based on the half-life projections of the contaminants in DU. In southern Iraq, where scientists are reporting five times higher levels of gamma radiation in the air, disfiguring and deadly cancers, leukemia, birth defects, diabetics and death are increasing exponentially.  When children are born in Iraq, the mothers ask not “Is my child a boy or girl?”  They ask “Is my precious child normal?”

An untold number of American children have also been born with severe birth defects as a result of DU contamination. In some studies of our soldiers who had normal babies before the war, a highly significant percent of their post-war babies are born with severe birth defects - missing brains, eyes, organs, legs and arms – Thalidomide resurrected.

DU is the Trojan horse of nuclear war - a silent, constant presence that keeps “gifting” – and keeps killing. There is no way to clean it up, and no way to turn it off.  Its deadly effects last to eternity. Sad to say, because of our DOD’s fixation on the use of DU weaponry, areas in Iraq, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan are now uninhabitable

A line from one of America’s favorite hymns, “O Beautiful for Spacious Skies,” seems particularly appropriate here:  “America, America, God mend thine every flaw/Confirm thy soul in self-control/Thy liberty in Law.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-sliced-in-two-by-israels-land-assault-1225794.html

Residents in areas under fire – for example in northern Gaza where the Israeli military focused a major incursion around the towns of Beit Lahiya, Jabaliya and Beit Hanoun – were prevented from leaving the besieged territory. The UN Relief and Works Agency reported that 3,000 internally displaced Gazans had arrived at seven shelters around the Strip. Oxfam said last night that a paramedic from an ambulance service it funds was killed in Beit Lahiya and two other medics injured while trying to evacuate an injured person. The ambulance had been shelled, Oxfam said

Reinforcing the Israeli government´s earlier rejection of international ceasefire calls, Israel´s veteran President Shimon Peres told the US news network ABC: "We don´t intend either to occupy Gaza nor to crush Hamas, but to crush terror. And Hamas needs a real and serious lesson. They are now getting it."

Yesterday´s deaths followed the worst single group of civilian casualties on Saturday night, just before the ground offensive, when 15 Palestinians were killed and more than 25 were injured in the bombing of the Ibrahim Al Makadima Mosque in Beit Lahiya. The Israeli military has not yet produced an official explanation of the incident, though officials said that two Hamas gunmen outside the mosque had been targeted and that the attack on them had triggered "secondary explosions".

an 8 series documentary on arab history:

1. The Question of Arab Unity – Why Unity?

partea 1

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=nwpx-mJgy38

partea 2

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=AUZhfv- 68Fs

2. The Question of Arab Unity – The Unity Betrayed

partea 1

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=MbGl_vXUAyk

3. partea 2

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=1FVRRqNsjOU

4. The Question of Arab Unity – Trials and Tribulations

partea 1

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=BgM-6e5pnH0

partea 2

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=3IWN1Z5_ MuQ

5. The Question of Arab Unity – A Cause for Arab Unity

partea 1

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=KbjoH0DS5Pw

partea 2

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=-t3kfyL_ P5E

Israel Has No Intention of Granting a Palestinian State

If Hamas Did Not Exist

By JENNIFER LOEWENSTEIN

Let us get one thing perfectly straight. If the wholesale mutilation and degradation of the Gaza Strip is going to continue; if Israel’s will is at one with that of the United States; if the European Union, Russia, the United Nations and all the international legal agencies and organizations spread across the globe are going to continue to sit by like hollow mannequins doing nothing but making repeated “calls” for a “ceasefire” on “both sides”; if the cowardly, obsequious and supine Arab States are going to stand by watching their brethren get slaughtered by the hour while the world’s bullying Superpower eyes them threateningly from Washington lest they say something a little to their disliking; then let us at least tell the truth why this hell on earth is taking place.

The state terror unleashed from the skies and on the ground against the Gaza Strip as we speak has nothing to do with Hamas. It has nothing to do with “Terror”. It has nothing to do with the long-term “security” of the Jewish State or with Hizbullah or Syria or Iran except insofar as it is aggravating the conditions that have led up to this crisis today. It has nothing to do with some conjured-up “war” – a cynical and overused euphemism that amounts to little more the wholesale enslavement of any nation that dares claim its sovereign rights; that dares assert that its resources are its own; that doesn’t want one of the Empire’s obscene military bases sitting on its cherished land.

This crisis has nothing to do with freedom, democracy, justice or peace. It is not about Mahmoud Zahhar or Khalid Mash’al or Ismail Haniyeh. It is not about Hassan Nasrallah or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. These are all circumstantial players who have gained a role in the current tempest only now that the situation has been allowed for 61 years to develop into the catastrophe that it is today. The Islamist factor has colored and will continue to color the atmosphere of the crisis; it has enlisted the current leaders and mobilized wide sectors of the world’s population. The primary symbols today are Islamic – the mosques, the Qur’an, the references to the Prophet Muhammad and to Jihad. But these symbols could disappear and the impasse would continue.

There was a time when Fatah and the PFLP held the day; when few Palestinians wanted anything to do with Islamist policies and politics. Such politics have nothing to do with primitive rockets being fired over the border, or smuggling tunnels and black-market weapons; just as Arafat’s Fatah had little to do with stones and suicide bombings. The associations are coincidental; the creations of a given political environment. They are the result of something entirely different than what the lying politicians and their analysts are telling you. They have become part of the landscape of human events in the modern Middle East today; but incidentals wholly as lethal, or as recalcitrant, deadly, angry or incorrigible could just as soon have been in their places.

Strip away the clichés and the vacuous newspeak blaring out across the servile media and its pathetic corps of voluntary state servants in the Western world and what you will find is the naked desire for hegemony; for power over the weak and dominion over the world’s wealth. Worse yet you will find that the selfishness, the hatred and indifference, the racism and bigotry, the egotism and hedonism that we try so hard to cover up with our sophisticated jargon, our refined academic theories and models actually help to guide our basest and ugliest desires. The callousness with which we in indulge in them all are endemic to our very culture; thriving here like flies on a corpse.

Strip away the current symbols and language of the victims of our selfish and devastating whims and you will find the simple, impassioned and unaffected cries of the downtrodden; of the ‘wretched of the earth’ begging you to cease your cold aggression against their children and their homes; their families and their villages; begging you to leave them alone to have their fish and their bread, their oranges, their olives and their thyme; asking you first politely and then with increasing disbelief why you cannot let them live undisturbed on the land of their ancestors; unexploited, free of the fear of expulsion; of ravishment and devastation; free of permits and roadblocks and checkpoints and crossings; of monstrous concrete walls, guard towers, concrete bunkers, and barbed wire; of tanks and prisons and torture and death. Why is life without these policies and instruments of hell impossible?

The answer is because Israel has no intention of allowing a viable, sovereign Palestinian state on its borders. It had no intention of allowing it in 1948 when it grabbed 24 per cent more land than what it was allotted legally, if unfairly, by UN Resolution 181. It had no intention of allowing it throughout the massacres and ploys of the 1950s. It had no intention of allowing two states when it conquered the remaining 22 per cent of historic Palestine in 1967 and reinterpreted UN Security Council Resolution 248 to its own liking despite the overwhelming international consensus stating that Israel would receive full international recognition within secure and recognized borders if it withdrew from the lands it had only recently occupied.

It had no intention of acknowledging Palestinian national rights at the United Nations in 1974, when –alone with the United States—it voted against a two-state solution. It had no intention of allowing a comprehensive peace settlement when Egypt stood ready to deliver but received, and obediently accepted, a separate peace exclusive of the rights of Palestinians and the remaining peoples of the region. It had no intention of working toward a just two-state solution in 1978 or 1982 when it invaded, fire-bombed, blasted and bulldozed Beirut so that it might annex the West Bank without hassle. It had no intention of granting a Palestinian state in 1987 when the first Intifada spread across occupied Palestine, into the Diaspora and the into the spirits of the global dispossessed, or when Israel deliberately aided the newly formed Hamas movement so that it might undermine the strength of the more secular-nationalist factions.

Israel had no intention of granting a Palestinian state at Madrid or at Oslo where the PLO was superseded by the quivering, quisling Palestinian Authority, too many of whose cronies grasped at the wealth and prestige it gave them at the expense of their own kin. As Israel beamed into the world’s satellites and microphones its desire for peace and a two-state solution, it more than doubled the number of illegal Jewish settlements on the ground in the West Bank and around East Jerusalem, annexing them as it built and continues to build a superstructure of bypass roads and highways over the remaining, severed cities and villages of earthly Palestine. It has annexed the Jordan valley, the international border of Jordan, expelling any ‘locals’ inhabiting that land. It speaks with a viper’s tongue over the multiple amputee of Palestine whose head shall soon be severed from its body in the name of justice, peace and security.

Through the home demolitions, the assaults on civil society that attempted to cast Palestinian history and culture into a chasm of oblivion; through the unspeakable destruction of the refugee camp sieges and infrastructure bombardments of the second Intifada, through assassinations and summary executions, past the grandiose farce of disengagement and up to the nullification of free, fair and democratic Palestinian elections Israel has made its view known again and again in the strongest possible language, the language of military might, of threats, intimidation, harassment, defamation and degradation.

Israel, with the unconditional and approving support of the United States, has made it dramatically clear to the entire world over and over and over again, repeating in action after action that it will accept no viable Palestinian state next to its borders. What will it take for the rest of us to hear? What will it take to end the criminal silence of the ‘international community’? What will it take to see past the lies and indoctrination to what is taking place before us day after day in full view of the eyes of the world? The more horrific the actions on the ground, the more insistent are the words of peace. To listen and watch without hearing or seeing allows the indifference, the ignorance and complicity to continue and deepens with each grave our collective shame.

The destruction of Gaza has nothing to do with Hamas. Israel will accept no authority in the Palestinian territories that it does not ultimately control. Any individual, leader, faction or movement that fails to accede to Israel’s demands or that seeks genuine sovereignty and the equality of all nations in the region; any government or popular movement that demands the applicability of international humanitarian law and of the universal declaration of human rights for its own people will be unacceptable for the Jewish State. Those dreaming of one state must be forced to ask themselves what Israel would do to a population of 4 million Palestinians within its borders when it commits on a daily, if not hourly basis, crimes against their collective humanity while they live alongside its borders? What will suddenly make the raison d’etre, the self-proclaimed purpose of Israel’s reason for being change if the Palestinian territories are annexed to it outright?

The lifeblood of the Palestinian National Movement flows through the streets of Gaza today. Every drop that falls waters the soil of vengeance, bitterness and hatred not only in Palestine but across the Middle East and much of the world. We do have a choice over whether or not this should continue. Now is the time to make it.

Jennifer Loewenstein is the Associate Director of the Middle East Studies Program at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. She can be reached at amadea311@earthlink.net

The death and life of my father

For Fares Akram, The Independent´s reporter in Gaza, the Israeli invasion became a personal tragedy when he discovered his father was one of the first casualties of the ground war

The phone call came at around 4.20pm on Saturday. A bomb had been dropped on the house at our small farm in northern Gaza. ..

But shortly before sunset on Saturday, .. my father´s life extinguished at the age of 48. ... It was one of those F16 airstrikes that killed my father.

..."Just a pile of flesh," my uncle, who found him in the rubble, said later with brutal honesty.

....

My father, Akrem al-Ghoul, was no militant. Born in Gaza and educated in Egypt, he was a lawyer and a judge who worked for the Palestinian Authority. After Hamas took over, he quit and turned to agriculture. Dad´s father, Fares, who had been driven out of his home in what is now Israeli Ashkelon in 1948, had bought the land in the 1960s.

During the second intifada and until the Israelis withdrew from Gaza in 2005, the farm was taken over by Israeli settlers, but after 2005 we went there every holiday. ........

My grief carries no desire for revenge, which I know to be always in vain. But, in truth, as a grieving son, I am finding it hard to distinguish between what the Israelis call terrorists and the Israeli pilots and tank crews who are invading Gaza. What is the difference between the pilot who blew my father to pieces and the militant who fires a small rocket? I have no answers but, just as I am to become a father, I have lost my father.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news........e-of-my-father-1225793.html

why does everybody send links? dont you know nobody cares  about links

I think you are right on that..That is the reason I am trying to give a brief summary

it´s THE RULES

i can brief on behalf of you a man is beating a boy in boys family´s house and all " so called" modern ( muslim and non-muslim) neighbours do is just watching it.

 its a very good question.

but its a rule, no matter if its stupid.

and you may even get persecuted if you dont act in accordance of TC law. im talking out of my own autopsy.

there are lots of lobbists in here who influence on the legislative bodies

 Oh, here we go....femme the pursecuted!  Just be quiet and do as you´re told! 

 yes, that evil brit LIR is my personal persecutor.

can you talk to her?

Brazilian cartoonist Carlos Latuff creates artworks that call on the world to condemn Israeli holocaust of Gaza / Nepos Libertas´s blog

Carlos Latuff´s statement:
I´d like to beg all viewers to spread this image anywhere, as a way to expose Israeli war crimes against Palestinians. Use it on t-shirts, posters, banners. Reproduce it in zines, papers, magazines, and make it visible everywhere. Here is the high-resolution version for printing purposes: Thank you in the name of every suffering Palestinian.
http://latuff2.deviantart.com/

http://www.fileflyer.com/view/Ho03ZB7

 Shhhh!  Be quiet or everyone will want one! 

 shhhh ok shhh!

It´s the Internet rule, not just a TC rule.

http://latuff2.deviantart.com/art/Tanks-rolling-over-Gaza-108351356

Do you really think that a demand from the UN would make any difference???

 Actually no.

But they say,it may give both sides a ground to withdraw ´if they want´ while looking nice.

The point is...even this,condemning the killing of the people we ´UN´ couldnt establish !

Well I suppose it is possible........

But I strongly suspect that niether side ´wants´

Robert Fisk: Bring in the peacekeepers? It´s not as easy as it sounds

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-bring-in-the-peacekeepers-its-not-as-easy-as-it-sounds-1228137.html

Things rarely are as easy as they sound........

Especially true of human conflict!

 It is actually the "source" of the materials that are important not the internet links (although it does provide the source) as when quoting anyones writings / articles etc.  Otherwise you can get done for breaching copyright or plagiarism. (Ciko with an "h"   ?? )

British Telecom care rather alot about links........

They hold the copyright for the internet hyperlink

 yes, we do care much about BT

The bottom line is simple and obvious - the Zionist jews dont want peace, they want all the land without Arabs.

 shalom rossy!

zionists are after you. i told them about you. watch out rossy

Ok, you´ll all hate me for that but I can´t bite my tongue here. In spite of the fact that I do condem Israeli attacks I can´t fail to see that there are two sides to this conflict and neither of them is peace loving. The issue here is taht Israel is way better armed and makes inexcusable and unproportional  use of their force. I object to the propaganda of peaceful Palestinians, children-loving Hamas and violent Israel on their crusade to destroy all Arabs. That´s a simplification

Lessluv posted a really interesting article here, one that makes you thinks about causes and reasons, not one using cheap compassion. It´s easy to take pics of dead people and cities in ruins and say - Look, that´s our tragedy. Sure, it is a tragedy but it´s also PR. Think about why such things happen, have happened and will happen and then realise we learn nothing from history. Puting vinegar and soda together was bound to cause a stir up, now continue blaming one side for all

 + a million

time to stand hand by hand against to all humanity crimes more then ever,by taking of our nationality,ethnicty ,cultural or beliefs shirts,otherwise  all of us will suffocate in bloods of innocent kids and babies!!!!!

My sympathies are almost entirely with the Patastinians, however WHAT REALLY ANNOYS ME about this conflict is the attitude of muslims, who consider them to be "their people".  I am quite certain that whatever the politics might be, muslims will always take the side of muslims.  I have muslim friends who have openly admitted this to me.  I remember Canli´s words... "we are burying our dead".

Siding with a particular religion, regardless of the issue, is something that I just can´t comprehend as is considering them to be "my people".  What the hell is Islam teaching people if this is their attitude?  It truly sickens me as i t implies that tragedies carry LESS importance if the victims are not muslims.

I am certain I am not alone in thinking that when there is tragedy, the religion or race of those affected is the LAST thing on my mind. 

 And never will you find any change in Allah´s law.

There are three churches searving 2000 christians linving in Ghaza strip. Christians are indeed a minority among the 1,3 million inhabitants.
Many Palestinian christians are leaving and many had their land confiscated by israel in 1948.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4514822.stm)

In my opinion, most of the palestinian christians belong to the middle/upper class so they left when the situation was unbearable; Israel´s violence and acts of injustice on one hand and the rise of muslim  fanaticism on the other hand.

Palestine is special for muslims mainly because of jerusalem and al aqsa mosque.
May be thats why muslims around the world consider palestinians as "their people".

It is indeed that religion is the last thing on ones mind  when there is tragedy, to quote TheAenigma.

However, when most tragedies in the world nowadays happen to people who belong to the same religion, namely islam,  one might understand why all muslims side up together.

The israeli attacks represent a massive collective punishment against the 1.3 million people of Gaza and thus, under international law, constitute a war crime, violating Israel’s obligations as Occupying Power under the Geneva Conventions.

vallahi it is a tragedy. Israel never complied with international law. So many UN resolutions have been made against Israel and nothing happened. They invaded Lebanon and were responsible for the massacres in sabra and Shatila, and the whole world watched.

We have to admit it, Israel is a super power. Zionist Jews are influential in the US and in Europe. As a consequence, Israel is invincible and has a free hand to do whatever it pleases, ...... at least for now.

One thing is sure however, violence breeds violence.

There will come a day ...

Strike on Gaza school ´kills 30´

A number of children were among those who died when the al-Fakhura school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was hit, doctors at nearby hospitals said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7814054.stm

+ a million

Ok, I see that you are trying to see ´both sides of the story´, but you are not supporting this with any facts! What is your basis for this??? This whole conflict has started with dirty politics of exploitation and humiliation. Nothing can overshadow that!!!

 Ã dont know what do you expect me to deny here !

To be a humanitarian,and to show that i dont side with a particular religion shouldnt i say the words our people where they are already OURS?!

Ým sorry,you may agree or not,but that is how it is,they are OUR people

Since many years ago,changing the borders wont deny them or us this,there are roots,family ties between many of us.

Our blood watered that land defending it through the years,and i tried to explain that to you before !

This was about thousand of years before BC

And this is through the Ottoman Empire time

And in between there was Salah Eldin,Mohamed Ali..and so many others through the history.

So you want me to deny all this and deal with the tragedy as its not ours?!

Sorry,but it is,because they are OUR people...and we we are burying our deads!

That is something borderes cant change it . 

Sorry but Aenigma has a valid point there..

The reason you call them your people is religion driven!!

We Turks lived with greeks, armanians, arabs and kurds more than thousands years too..

But we did not hessitate to do what we did to Armenians for example. Or you can not find many Turks who will call Greeks as OUR people for example..

We still remember how kurds or iranians were gassed by saddam and I am sure you did not feel the same and called them ´our people´.  

So Aenigma has a good point there and you giving the maps and history about the region wont change the validity of it...

I think it´s not fair to blame Muslims to side with each other, but it´s indeed not fair for Muslims to not side with victims of other conflicts. The best example is Turkish people not empathizing for Kurds, but empathizing for Palestinians. It´s all propaganda and self interest... no room for truth and real justice.

 Ãm sry handsom,but its your opinion,and your case also

Your case with the greeks,armanians are not same as with us

You went through wars with them..

Ý wont also get it how you could call someone who killed you or stamp you in the back your people,unless you consider them yours but traitors !

Ýts not the case here

We didnt go to wars,fight with ours

So,they are OUR people.

Kurds,and Ýranians are Muslims,so according to you and AE,i should also call them our people.

You are contradicting yourself here !

They are sure our brothers and sisters in humanity,muslims like us ´majority´...but they are not our people.

The maps i provided was only to show how deep the roots are.

But actually i dont need the maps to say if they are ours or not,as i said,bordered are different now,but that doesnt change the facts

I dont think I am contradicting myself at all here..

I am sure most of Iranians think the same as you. I mean they think  ´our brothers are being killed´ too.

Same goes for the pakistani people..

Most of those ´our brothers´ rethoric is coming from the religious perspective.

Those people were not thinking the same when millions of muslims died in irak iran war..

Why?

Because there was not a christian army or a jews army performing the killing. 

So AE had the right  point there..

Most of those cries are coming out because ´jews are killing the muslims´.

When muslims kill eachother in the same place people dont cry like that..do they?

You also say that you did not fight against eachother but dont forget how many palestinians killed by Jordan in 1970.. So you did have wars between eachother..

Has anybody who supports isreal or people who starts talking ´but hamas is doing this and that´ tried to think themselves as Palestinians ?

Forget the religion piece of it..Religions come and go..100 years later, majority of people wont be believing god/allah etc..

But try to think yourselves as Palestinians..

Lets us, Turks try it..

Say that Hittites came back to Anatolia (they were the occupants at the time) and said that that is their country, after 2000 years..

and kicked you out of your homes , your lands..

Then started to use your homes and settled on your soil

placed us into refugee camps and put wals around us

some of you escaped to other countries and lived in the refugee camps there

Then all other countries like US EU supports Hittites

Even your best neighbours dont not support you

A little piece of land given to you by the UN and even that land is occupied..and nobody in the world cared about it.

All this injustice has gone on and on for last 60 years..

And you see your family members your mother, father, your childeren are suffering and fighting with the life while Hittites are having a comfortable life with the help of other powerful nations

the entire world recognizes them and not you

and you see this everyday and live with it

you get humuliated at the check points in your own soil everyday

and when you persue your rights everybody labels you as terrorist

what would you do?

I smell plagiarism here

 No handsom,you are contradicting yourself.

You said i call palestinians our people because they are muslims,and asked me why dont i call kurds,Ýranians also our people .

According to that logic,i should also call them our people,and you doubt that i do

See?messy ,eh ?

Thats why i said you are contradicting yourself.

As i said in previous posts,to me,to us ´Egyptians´ Palestinians are our people,regardless of religion.

You know,today is the Christmas here 7/1

And the christmas eve is tonight,celebrating it in churches,where they expect it will be flammable this year,with many protestors and many demands to the Pope too because of Gaza

So they also side with Muslims there,or with the christians in Gaza ?!!!

They just side with OUR People in Gaza.

Ýts really that simple !

As for Jordan needless to say how deep the roots are there,or the number of the Palestinians,but just small thing...Queen Rania is also Palestinian!

 Ã think Turks already know that.

But im with you..

Why doesnt anyone try it.

Even better...

Ýf you are sitting in your own home,then came some armed few people and kicked you out of your home,and fire at some of your family

Some run away to the neighbours to hide

Some Stayed at the terrace,and try to entered

And keep knocking.

Neighbours call the police,but the police was already corruptedgot paid by the armed men

So,they say,let things as they are.

And when you try to fight your way back..to your own home

Even by throwing stones at the windows

They call the police,and police condemn you ...and the armed people,fire at you..claiming they are defending themselves,and you are a thief,terrorist,try to break in !

I think his point is that he doesn´t think you do - where´s the contradiction?

 Agaýn - where´s the contradiction?  - he is saying you should but he doubts you do - not you should but you shouldn´t - that would be a contradiction.

quoting femmeous: ...."and palestinian constant un-ending attacks to israel represent what? peace? "

Robert Fisk: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html

........"And I write the following without the slightest doubt: we´ll hear all these scandalous fabrications again. We´ll have the Hamas-to-blame lie – heaven knows, there is enough to blame them for without adding this crime – and we may well have the bodies-from-the-cemetery lie and we´ll almost certainly have the Hamas-was-in-the-UN-school lie and we will very definitely have the anti-Semitism lie. And our leaders will huff and puff and remind the world that Hamas originally broke the ceasefire. It didn´t. Israel broke it, first on 4 November when its bombardment killed six Palestinians in Gaza and again on 17 November when another bombardment killed four more Palestinians".

 He said i am siding up with Palestinians and call them our people just for being Muslims.

At same time he doesnt think i call Kurds and Ýranians our people..Kurds and Ýranians are also muslims

Ýf what he said first was right,then what he said second would be wrong and vice versa.

Thats contradiction.

i unconsciously see Palestenians ( muslim or non-muslim) or Balkan People "as our people". it is probably historical background. and i dont understand what is wrong with it.  how can you ignore cultural and historic affinity? 

Dr. Mads Gilbert, Gaza,

Dr . Mads Gilbert, a Norwegian doctor in Gaza, tells Sky News that the number of civilians injured and killed in Gaza proves that Israel is deliberately attacking the population.

“Just a little bit more than an hour ago the Israelis bombed the central fruit market in Gaza city and we had a mass influx of about 50 injured and between 10 and 15 killed. At the same time they bombed an apartment house with children playing on the roof and we had a lot of children also. So this is really like speaking from the dumps of Inferno, it’s like hell here now, and it’s been bombing all night. Until now close to 500 people have been killed and the number of casualties is getting to 2,500 of which 50% are children and women.

Are your hospitals reaching capacity? Can you deal with these people?

We have been doing surgery around the clock. I have just talked with one of my colleagues in the ICU (Intensive Care Unit), he´s not been sleeping for three days and the hospital is completely overcrowded, we are running 6 - 7 Ors (Operating Rooms) and there are injuries you just don’t want to see in this world… children coming in with open abdomens and legs cut off. We just had a child that we had to amputate both legs and an arm. And their only crime is being civilians and Palestinians living in Gaza. The relief now is not more doctors and more drugs; the relief now is to stop the bombing immediately, this cannot go on, it’s a disaster.

You’ve talked about the civilians, the women, the children, the men who aren’t involved in this, but are you also getting casualties that are Hamas fighters?

To be honest, we came on New Year’s Eve in the morning. I’ve seen one military person among the tenths… I mean hundreds that we’ve seen and treated, so anybody who tries to portrait this as a totally clean war against another army are lying. This is an all-out war against the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza, and we can prove that with numbers. And you have to remember that the average age of the Gaza inhabitants is 17 years, it’s a very young population, and 80% are living below the poverty limit of the UN. So this is a poor and very young people, and they are able to escape absolutely nowhere, because they cannot flee like other populations can in war time, because they are fenced in and they are in a cage, so they’re bombing 1.5 million people in a cage… young people, poor people and, you know, you cannot separate between the civilians and the fighters in such a situation.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21654.htm

 i suggest you first have a look on this. robert fisk may write this and that, but i doubt he states facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932009_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict

quite interesting.

tami,

mr mads gilbert, a good samaritan from norway doesnt know the tactics of muslims. they hide behind civilians, they hide their weapons in the mosques, schools, and even hospitals. they dont evacuate civilians out of fire line but opposite they push them to the front line.

they train little children and young women to become martyrs. if they themselves dont protect their families and ready to offer them as targets, front line heros, victims in front page. then why do expect that enemies should care for them?

that doesnt even deserve a response.

Femme,

i am sorry i will have to divorce you  

 i really think that you should apologize for this, at least as a token of respect for them:

http://www.elfarra.org/gallery/gaza.htm

The meeting of Israel´s security Cabinet comes a day after France and Egypt sketched a proposal to stop the fighting. The initiative was spurred on by an Israeli mortar strike near a United Nations school the U.N. says killed 40 Palestinians.

The U.S. has endorsed the proposal. Israel has yet to give its response.

Israeli officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because no decision has been made, say Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his top ministers will consider the proposal today or whether to press ahead with the 12-day operation meant to stop rocket fire into Israel.

Israel has killed more than 600 Palestinians in the fighting.

The United Nations agency dealing with Palestinian refugees says it´s certain that Hamas militants were not using its school to attack Israeli troops.

Israel said militants fired mortar shells at its troops from outside the school, drawing return fire.

Christopher Guinness of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency said today ``UNWRA is 99.9 percent certain there were no militants or military activity in its school.´´

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/6197976.html

No one should apologize for his/her opinions. suppose she apologizes. will that change her sick thoughts?

 i think i dont share your thoughts. sorry to hurt your feelings. tami is right i dont have to. its my personal opinion on this issue.

 you have a new friend tami?

 gosh, i have just lost a brownie point

 sorry, but i have to say this no matter how many times you divorce me. but i know you will come back to me.

as usual

I never said that anything wrong with it..

I was trying to show the religious elements, religious sidelining  in those feelings.

you should go to Alpha you are too militarist for me  

you mean too dominant?

The latest figures from Palestinian health officials say 205 children are among some 600 people who have died in the Gaza war. In the chaos, there are no statistics for how many are among the at least 2,900 injured.

...

He talks of a boy he treated five years ago. Grappling in the dark after his house was hit in an airstrike on a Hamas militant next door, he felt something wet.

"He realised it was the flesh of his sister who was blown into pieces. He was in such a state. He couldn´t eat or smell meat for three years after that. I am sure he will suffer some kind of long-term psychological impact."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7814490.stm

i am terribly sorry, but when children are killed, other "personal opinions" seem just a mockery of common sense.....

 i have already done that

but i still hope deep in my feet that we one day re-unite.

 you are always right

 me too, sorry for those children that were used as shelters. children are innocent, they were supposed to be evacuated from the war place and kept in havens. but adult palestinians didnt give even a little thought to that, because usually to the nature of culture and religion children in there have no bigger importance than the religion and its ideology.

 JULIA,

have you finished your lecture?

On reading Canli vs Thehandsom...should I call all atheists my people? Or, bearing in mind the extent of Poland in the past, are all those easterners MY PEOPLE too? I´m getting lost who´s with me and who isn´t

 i think canli has reached her goal. you are supposed to feel so according to the scenario. read her posts to hairy and you start feeling dizzy. this is how she often sneaks out from the direct answer.

It might be a language thing, I don´t speak Arabic but perhaps it is more evasive than English or Polish whose logic I am used to

 yeah right. you have saved her. im sure her cake with which she bribed you has still a great influence on you.

Well..you know me - I´d do ANYTHING for sweets everybody has a weak spot and this is mine - torture me, hit me, verbally abuse me - I will never change my mind. Serve me a plate of cake and I´ll nod to your every word

 canli is too smart, she knows which string to pull. i knew that too and hairy our best dudu still doesnt know how to get your msn.

What can I say - he´s just a man and Canli is a woman - that means they don´t start from the same level, he´s got way more thinking to do than she did

Femme..stop rubbing it.. OK? 

I am still working on it and I am still very optimistic about it

 you stop working

you start thinking

Cartoon Number One

The image doesn´t display

it does here but Ros could you change its size - it ruins the allignment

Ah yes - just checked and it is blocked by our web filtering.........

It is classified as "Tasteless/Illegal/Questionable"

SPEECHLESS!!!!IM COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY SPEECHLESS!!!!

U  R  SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Adult Israelis arent doing any better, http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/92/jorthodoxwk4.jpg

Hmm, Israel withdrew 3 years ago from the Gaza strip in order to instill peace..since then Hamas has sent over 3 thousand missles into Israel within the last year targeting civilians.   Can´t really comprehend why anyone is questioning Israel´s actions...Your not suggesting they need to peacefully discuss this sitting at the kitchen table now...just a little too late for that.

"The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not just an issue of military occupation and Israel is not a country that was established normally. Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children ... Palestinians are not struggling for a "state" but for freedom, liberation and equality, just like we were struggling for freedom in South Africa ..."
--Nelson Mandela, March 2001

QUOTING ISMAIL KHATIB, FATHER OF AHMED KHATIB

"I hope we can live a peaceful life without the killing of children. My children and the Palestinian children in the camp are dreaming of a life in peace and freedom."
-- Ismail Khatib, father of Ahmed Khatib, an 11 year old boy shot in the head by an Israeli sniper, upon donating his son´s organs to save the lives of Jewish children.

quoting cedars:

I didnt know they islamize the land I thought they islamize the people!

im pretty sure you know little about islam like many many muslims.

I think if the palestinians were given a real chance to establish their sovrenty they are ready to live in peace side by side with Israel.

i think palestinians wasted a lot chances given to them, spitting onto the kind hand. im 100%sure arabs will never let palestinians live in peace. palestinian arabs are pawns in the hand of wealthy spoiled by oil other arabs.

hmm if it is a fact that it was TOTALLY destroyed as you say , then why would the Israelis  do excavations under the Al Aqsa mosque looking for ruins!!!!

oh, because, jews are smart, they excavate everything, they have found many interesting basements underneath jerusalem. btw, i heard they did excavations near al-aqsa not under it. and why did you bring this up? has it any significanse to this topic?

Then it is true all their aim is destruction and mainly destroying the mosque!

duh, tell me what part of it was destroyed?

.

I cannot see how you came with this conclusion! everyone tends to sympathize with his close one whether he admits it or not.

im singing in the rain, im singing in the rain.

Yes indeed Israel is surrounded by arabs who are doing nothing. Not a single bullet goes from the syrian borders to Israel, nor from egyptian nor jordanians.

oh my, what happent? did they learn a lesson from the past?

Tourists from Israel come and go to Jordan as they please.  The only exception is Lebanese borders and that is due to the fact that Israel is still occupying a lebanese land without excuse, sheb´a farms thus giving an alibi to Hizballa to keep attacking north of Israel. If they just withdraw from our land and then judge whether there will be peace on the borders or not!!

you see i just had a little check

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon

Five years after gaining independence, Lebanon joined the Arab League in invading Israel within hours after its independence.^[23][24]. It took over logistical support of the Arab Liberation Army after it found itself cut off from its bases in Syria while going on an attack on the newly proclaimed Jewish State.^[24] The Lebanese military gained nothing during the war, and the Israeli army managed to conquer territory west of the Naphtali Mountains.^[23] After the defeat of the Arab Liberation Army in Operation Hiram,^[25] Lebanon accepted an armistice with Israel on 23 March 1949 and the conquered territory was returned. During the war, about 100,000 Palestinian refugees fled to Lebanon (here starts all your troubles).

a war with israel was a mistake and a curse. lebanon will bear the consequences for very long, i reckon.

So you think palestinians are better without airports and seaports and they should pass by Israeli checkpoints everyday and yet do nothing!?

of course, there are lots of suicide bombers there, young boys from poor families and young women with a damaged reputation. they must be better checked.

they anyway smuggle weapon and terrorists underground and imagine if they had open airports they would have nuclear weapon by this time. israeli checkpoints caught lots of humanitarian aid trucks full of weapon instead of sugar or flour just from europe.

We´re condmening them before they do anything. No wonder palestinians sided up with Hamas!! If one keeps thinking they are terrorist no matter what they say or do even of they sit down for peace negociations then they better become terrorist, just to go with their reputation at least

i personally have condemned them after what they did. as i said im not a prophet to predict the future. most of them now regret for siding up with terrorists, you sure know that or french tv is censored?

I never heard your condemnation for Sabra and Shatila neither!

I condemn violence and I dont have to repeat it and reply to every post talking about islamists terrorists!

im not talking about the violence happent 20 years ago. if i follow your thinking, i too didnt hear you condemning the holocaust done on jews. but i dont follow your way of thinking.

Here you are completely wrong. lebanon is NOT a muslim country never was and never will be. Lebanon is 50% muslims and 50% christians with all in all 18 different religeous sects. the president is ALWAYS maronite christian and the chief of staff of the army is always maronite christian and the head of secret services is always maronite christian. It is stated in the law. The islamic law has no valor except for marriages,divorces and inheritence for muslim citizens only. How would it be a muslim country then!!

ooooo, i dont agree with you. this description belongs to lebanon of 40-50 years ago.

listen to this brave lady, she doesnt hide like you and doesnt hide her identity.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-8fa9yKQeTY

I am not an atheist. I belong to one of these 18 religeous sects and I dont side up with muslims.

you can keep your identity to yourself, you act like alameda. your secret doesnt attract me. what to be guessed? you are either druze or maronite. but do i care? we are anyway very different.

Apparently you are not from the region so you dont know the details of the middle east.

An Israeli would never call lebanon a muslim country. You are just blindly siding up with Israel may be  based on "strong religeous ties".

apparently you are an expert of middle east and "jews" keep your mysterious details to yourself

an israeli can call lebanon whatever, not my business.

im siding up with a common sense. or maybe vai vai i may have jewish roots thats why i feel religious ties? i dont have enough money to do the genetic tests

YOu dont know much about Islam. One of the basics in Islam is "doubt" and there is an islamic saying that goes like "doubt is the way to truth" (al shak howa tareeq alyaqeen)  الشك هو طريق اليقين

where did you take this from?

i took this from an islamic site

http://www.islamherald.com/asp/explore/iman/shahada/prerequisites_of_the_declaration2.asp

"They alone seek leave of thee (not to participate in jihad) who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and whose hearts feel doubt, so in their doubt they waver" (Qur´an, al-Tauba 45).

Many scholars have stated that the diseases of the heart, or the doubt and suspicions that one allows into one´s heart, are more dangerous for a person´s faith than lusts and desires. This is because lusts and desires may be satisfied at some time yet the person still knows them to be wrong and he may control himself and repent and give up that evil deed. On the other hand, the doubts and suspicions may linger in the heart, with no cure, until the person finally leaves Islam entirely or continues to practice Islam while, in fact, in his heart he does not have the true faith.

basically, muslims are not allowed to question and doubt about allah.

May be the muslims you met never question their religion but you havent met all muslims have you!?

it seems you have met them all? all millions of them dont argue with me, i will trap you with your own words.

I am sure there will be peace one day.  Many Israeli civilians realized this and do protest against war. I hope politicians will understand this soon. else we will be all doomed in an endless war in the region.

here, i again have to side with a common sense. many israeli civilians? apparently again you have met many israelis? those who protest against every action of israel are the orthodox jews.

well, lets say that politicians understood something, how would they end this conflict?

you should finally open your eyes: theres no solution to this conflict.

 miss, when did they release you from the circus?

Are you saying that your conscience is clear about Israel going in and killing 700 people (including many civilians, many childeren)?

you are saying that you do NOT show any remorse when you see blown up childeren´s pictures?

you are not sorry even a little?

So it is alright for you they kill 700 in 10 days for missles which killed only handful of israelies during 3 years (I dont know exactly how many Israelies got killed because of that)?

 israel is not responsible for the actions of hamas and other terror supporting neighbours who use palestinian civilians as targets. end of story.

Yesha Rabbinical Council: During time of war, enemy has no innocents

The Yesha Rabbinical Council announced in response to an IDF attack in Kfar Qanna that "according to Jewish law, during a time of battle and war, there is no such term as ´innocents´ of the enemy."

 All of the discussions on Christian morality are weakening the spirit of the army and the nation and are costing us in the blood of our soldiers and civilians," the statement said. (Efrat Weiss)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283720,00.html

Straight Fox news propaganda. Israel withdrew their military from OCCUPIED territory! A territory THEY occupied! Do you see the cause and effect there? Israel has violated international laws there!!!