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gelmemememe-mezlikten?!
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10.       Merih
933 posts
 18 Jan 2009 Sun 05:49 pm

 

Quoting Tazx1

 Thank you ALL and sundry.

 

Thank you guys and guyesses,

 

I accept the verdict that it is a ´colloquialism´ > and every language resorts to such usages.

 

***But would it be, for one unfamiliar with such usage, to say instead ´görmezlikten-cesine´; entirley wrong?***

 

I shall ahve a look at ´Manisa´ site [an excellent resource] > but once again Colloquial Turkish lets a student down by not explaining ´peculiar´ deployment of a term which deviates from the norm.  It undermines ones one´s confidence, to say the least.

 

By now, memebers are liable to conclude that I have embarked on a mission to destroy ´Colloquial Turkish by Yusuf Mardin] -- not so.  It can be an excellent book if supervised by an experienced ´personal´ tutor.  As a DIY teacher, it is dismal.  Yusuf Mardin, being a native to Turkish, seems not to be able to anticipate difficulties which a foreign learner may [indeed - will] encounter.  The gifted author, sadly presumes too much and leaves many aspects ´suspended´.

 

´Manisa´ on the other has been constructed by a native English person [John Guise - now living in New Zealand], and one who has gone through the ´mill´ himself.  If he had written a book, it would have been potentially very good.  He, however, did the next best thing.

 

Thank you experts.

 

Tazx1

 

 görmezliktencesine is  wrong, but you can say görmezcesine - which means as if he/she can´t see... or görürcesine - like he/she sees it.

11.       Melek74
1506 posts
 18 Jan 2009 Sun 05:52 pm

 

Quoting Merih

 Because we contruct words by adding suffixes to the words..

 

So: görmek - görmemek is there

      görür - görmez is there... there is no word in Turkish like görmemez... so, when we add the suffix, we add it to görmez:  görmezlikten gelme or görmezden gelme.

 

It makes sense to me, thank you for the explanation.

 

So, the official, proper way is without the "me", but, if I understand correctly, in daily use you add the "me" then? Which one seems more natural for you to use?

12.       si++
3785 posts
 18 Jan 2009 Sun 05:53 pm

 

Quoting Melek74

I looked in the Milet´s Ýngilizce Öðrenci Sözlüðü and it gives the definition for 

"görmemezlikten gelmek" this is wrong. should be "görmezlikten gelmek" see below. as "to pretend not to see, to cut, to ignore. You can also check on www.tureng.com and it´ll give you multiple entries for that expression.

 

I´m not trying to be a pain in the neck here, I just want to make sure that I learn correctly.

 

-ir (or -er) is aorist suffix. it becomes (-z) after a negative verb (me-z/ma-z).

gör-ür = (he) sees (verb= gör-)

gör-me-z = (he) doesn´t see (verb= görme)

 

it can be used to make adjectives also.

görürlük = seeing

görmezlik = not seeing

 

görmemez is wrong. it like saying "does not not see".

13.       Merih
933 posts
 18 Jan 2009 Sun 05:54 pm

 

Quoting Melek74

It makes sense to me, thank you for the explanation.

 

So, the official, proper way is without the "me", but, if I understand correctly, in daily use you add the "me" then? Which one seems more natural for you to use?

 

 The people who is not well educated for Turkish language (though they are native speakers) would say it.. the other person would understand it too.. but still it is wrong.

14.       Melek74
1506 posts
 18 Jan 2009 Sun 05:57 pm

 

Quoting si++

-ir (or -er) is aorist suffix. it becomes (-z) after a negative verb (me-z/ma-z).

gör-ür = (he) sees (verb= gör-)

gör-me-z = (he) doesn´t see (verb= görme)

 

it can be used to make adjectives also.

görürlük = seeing

görmezlik = not seeing

 

görmemez is wrong. it like saying "does not not see".

 

I understand the aorist tense. It´s funny how everybody says it´s wrong, yet in dictionaries it appears to be an acceptable version. Manisa Turkish calls it a "special case". All languages have exceptions, is it too much of a stretch to question whether that is not the case here?

15.       Melek74
1506 posts
 18 Jan 2009 Sun 05:59 pm

 

Quoting Merih

 The people who is not well educated for Turkish language (though they are native speakers) would say it.. the other person would understand it too.. but still it is wrong.

 

Ok, thanks {#lang_emotions_flowers} So I´d better stick to the "right" version then if I want to appear semi-educated in Turkish {#lang_emotions_bigsmile} 

16.       Merih
933 posts
 18 Jan 2009 Sun 05:59 pm

 

Quoting Melek74

Ok, thanks {#lang_emotions_flowers} So I´d better stick to the "right" version then if I want to appear semi-educated in Turkish {#lang_emotions_bigsmile} 

 

 You´re welcome.

17.       si++
3785 posts
 18 Jan 2009 Sun 06:00 pm

 

Quoting Melek74

I understand the aorist tense. It´s funny how everybody says it´s wrong, yet in dictionaries it appears to be an acceptable version. Manisa Turkish calls it a "special case". All languages have exceptions, is it too much of a stretch to question whether that is not the case here?

 

Well it happens. You may hear it from a native as well. But it´s wrong grammatically.

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