Specially for you, a nice picture... (I took a decent one   )

Trudy, I hope we are clear on the fact taht this picture is a poor attempt to copy my image...  I also hope that nobody takes advantage of this thread to ask me to leave...

Other then that... thanks!!!

 Want a more.... erm.... revealing one?

Can you share your secrets on the best make up remover?  I bet it´s a bitch washing your face at night..

Sorry... my makeup is permanent... I couldn´t be bothered to put it on and remove every day!!

 (no further comment.....)

Who was this chick?

 How misogynist.

Oh - I leave for 5 minutes and you go and get a better thread than me  - I suppose you think you own this site! 

(Trudy - I thought you were MY friend    )

 Sorry canim, shall I open a thread ´Lady in Red II´?

Sense of humour as usual?

 Jealous of something you don´t have?

No - it´s ok - that small moment of glory was enough for me thank you!

Do I sense sexual tensions here..?

Trudy. Answer me with ideas if you can.

Read my posts first (now that undertanding what you read is one of your strengths).

Then please answer them.

You seem to be  taking  every little opportunity to teach me a lesson when there is obviously not much that you can...

Just remember how you have unnecessarily labeled me so far (only the ones I remember):

that I have long toes

that I lack  sense of humour

that I am a misagonist..

What is next?

You know everything about  Turks don´t you. You don´t even have to actually know me...

I don´t enjoy the unnecessary villification of one another between Trudy and Vineyards... I think you are both intelligent, mature people who don´t need to get down to that sort of conversation to exchange ideas. Please... let´s try to show more mutual respect and give each other more benefit of the doubt.

 No-one answered you!  Michelle Pfeifer I think

Strange. I find her to be one of the best looking actresses ever ( along with Jessica Lange) but I did not recognize this one.

At least, the reliability of my taste has been confirmed.

Thanks.

 Ohh I guess I am misogynistic too then....I always say "chick"! 

Sorry CW but should I show a person who calls me a racist, says I´m probably a member of the Ubermensch-clan and calls me biased all the time without knowing who I am respect? Even my parents told me there are limits.

I understand that Trudy. That´s why I said that both of you should be more considerate.. because I know that all these accusations are completely false and ridiculous.

 It is not a big secret that I am quite open to provocations. I shouldn´t be like that but I am. Somethings are not easy to change when you have come of a certain age. I do have a habit of guessing or maybe judgeing what lies behind what. I have met tons of people from all nationalities and I am aware of the way their reasoning works. You can´t be oblivious to all this racist stuff going on all around the Internet.

That the Danes wishing and all Danish country from their politicians are in the news. Our nationalists on the other hand desire an all Turkish Turkey. A while ago this was openly declared in the logo of a mainstream newspaper. If you are looking for more examples, hundreds more can easily be found.

I am personally sensitive about racism and find many of the world nations including Jews, Arabs, Poles, Finns, Spaniards, the French to be unnecessarily prejudiced about our nationalities or races.

I did not call Trudy a racist, I may have conditionally implied that which does not amount to a direct accusation. Logically, if she has a problem with the minorities in her country she could indeed vote for an extremist right wing party.

I think Vineyards that you are a well-rounded, cultured individual. That is why I was surprised to see you implying that Trudy was a racist. If I was her, I would also have thought that you called her a racist.. maybe just your choice of words was not proper in that post.

I also think that your sensitivity towards racism is well justified.

 Well, for what it´s worth....Trudy does come off as pretty racist and intolerant to me.  I´m sure this is just a cultural miscommunication, and she doesn´t realize or intend to be perceived in that manner....but I can assure you, she is not seen as particularly friendly to Islamic/Eastern people. 

She doesn´t seem to find much to praise about the culture.... and she seems to delight in provoking Turkish men, as well as finds a lot negative things to post regarding the culure.

In netiquette all caps is seen as shouting, often times her comments have parts that are all caps.  It seems  shouting....and does not inspire warm fuzzy feelings.

Trudy has been very generous in uploading hundreds of wonderful photos and I really appreciate her work and effort.....but at the same time...those same Turks were hospitable and  generous enough to allow her to take their photographs which could be acknowledge in some way.

I myself have been a recipient of her ample  "praise".   Now I´m sure I´ll get even more.......but I just wanted to add my two cents as I really don´t like to see vineyards being vilified.

As we are devoid of body language, voice tone....as well as communicating cross cultures, things are easily misunderstood.

Thanks. Then let me clarify, I do not think Trudy is a racist. I just criticize her opinions about other religions, ethnic groups etc. 

It´s interesting to point out when someone expresses their opinion that is different than yours, they are now classified as intolerant and racist.  Personally, I agree with many of Trudy´s views.  I think there needs to be some tolerance for others, however why should anyone feel compelled to be tolerant of someone elses behavior´s or views and lower their standards just to passify others?  Sure I understand being sensitive to others, however no one should have to compromise their beliefs for the sake of saving face. 

Wow..what a show of tolerance Alamada...

I won´t go into all this bullshit crap you wrote but on one thing you lied: I never use caps in complete sentences, sometimes I type one word in these, as if I´m highlighting. So don´t blabber about that, Mrs. Perfect-Know-It-All.

BTW, I´m soooooooo glad I don´t inspire warm, fuzzy feelings with you. The thought I would do that is making me sick as hell!

For all people who can read (so that is excluding the ´sweet´ beloved Alamada), let me explain: I don´t believe in assimilation. Not for a tourist (like me) visiting a country for a short time, nor for an emigrant going to another country.

However, I do believe in adjustment. When I´m abroad I adjust as much as I can and as I know / am aware of: I take my shoes off in Turkey, India, Sri Lanka and Japan, I wear a headscarf in mosques, I am silent in religious places like temples, churches and mosques, I don´t touch people in Japan, I address them respectfully with e.g. haným or -san (in Japan), I don´t show the soles of my feet, I don´t do/give things with the number 4 as (in Japan) that is the same as death, I won´t even think of taking pictures in religious places when people are praying in front of my lens etc, etc.

In my own country I expect from ´newcomers´ they adjust themselves to the dominant culture here, meaning: no shouting ´whore´ on the streets to women with skirts above the knee, trying to speak the language within a reasonable time (meaning not only after 30 years!), accepting the common idea of critisizing anything around, accepting (which is different from liking it!) that being gay is widely accepted, mingling also with locals and not making ´ghetto´s´ of your neighbourhood, not disturbing art exhibitions just because one thinks the displayed artefacts are not done etc, etc.

I wouldn´t think of voting for a right wing party, I voted all my life for a left, environmental friendly party (so left that in the US I would get McCarthy after me!). I just don´t accept/like everything people do as they don´t accept/like everything I do and like they are allowed to I am allowed to express my ideas and feelings about that. I will support people trying to create a new political party as long as it´s within the law.

If that attitude is racist, so be it but I advise then to check the meaning in a good dictionary. I don´t mind other cultures/religions in my country, I live in a quite multicultural neighbourhood in the centre of Rotterdam and I like it very much, I love many things they brought with them - I think e.g. on hospitality my countrymen can learn a lot from Turks but I don´t like - and I will ´fight´ that - some of the habits they (newcomers in general, not specifically Turks) bring with them: forcing their daughters to marry someone parents have chosen, female circumcision, demanding prayer calls from mosques, honour revenge, refusal to learn the language but taking advantage of a Dutch passport, refusing to work but thinking a social security check is normal, ´lover boys´ using girls in prostitution etc.

Does the above apply to all newcomers? In case of the adjustment dor me yes, for all living here longer than let´s say two/three years, only temporary expats one can´t force to learn the language. Do the negative aspects apply to all newcomers? Absolutely not, my guess is that 90%, maybe even 95% are fine, trying to do their best but that other 5-10% is ruining it for the rest. Yes, we do have a very right wing party which I absolute loathe. If you read the programme of that party, if you aske voters for that party, mainly the reason they vote are because of newcomers who did not adjust enough, who kept themselves aside in such a negative way that people started to dislike them. It means that my country, which had the name of being tolerant, is not tolerant anymore. There is a ´we and them-culture´ now. And that is what I blame some of the new citizins.

Disclaimer: If I wasn´t clear enough or if you think my words can be seen in more ways, please remind that English is not my native language. I sometimes find it difficult to express the thoughts in my mind in another language than my own. If this occurs, do ask, maybe I can explain more.

 Trudy your english is excellent and you express yourself better than many who are native speakers. 

So you have appointed yourself the voice of the Islamic/Eastern community?   How can you ASSURE this comment alameda?  

I´m sure you don´t realize or intend to be perceived as someone who is intolerant of people that don´t share your beliefs....but I can assure you are seen as intolerant!!! 

 +1  - an excellent post 

Excellent post Trudy. When you take your time and write down what you geniunely think about a contraversial subject such as this one, you avoid raising all those question marks in readers´s minds.

The formerly broad spectrum of the political scene has become converged over the recent years. Being against people of different ethnic origins (talking about legal citizens here) would be considered in the domain of a nationalist party. If someone is entitled to your citizenship, you have little to affect his/her cultural preferences. We have millions of Kurds living in this country. They are our legal citizens. No matter how culturally different they may be, we cannot just wish them leave the country. We must also take into account the nationalist sentiment within the country. When you start complaining of the Kurdish culture, you encourage over patriotic people whose slogan is either love this country or leave it.

These people belong to a patriarchal community which is very resistant to change. In this country, we are looking into years of education, an agricultural revolution, large scale incentive schemes to cure the problem a bit.

Wow, what a judgmental post! I am sure that I am also pretty racist and intolerant in your eyes, and I don´t praise the East enough..

I think Alameda that you are one of those people who feel entitled that everybody must respect your culture/East and is not allowed to criticise Islam, while they themselves show absolutely no respect or understanding of the views or culture of the other side..

 If you will reread my comment, you may realize I did not accuse you of the use of all caps in complete sentences.  I did not say you are racist, I said some of your comments were perceived as racist.............there is a difference.... and there were also also compliments directed to you. 

I have not ever used curse words in addressing you, nor have I called you derogatory names.  In using Free Speech, my observations and feelings were expressed.  After all, we do believe in Free Speech, don´t we?

To add to this, this started when Trudy called vineyards a misogynist....

(Misogyny is hatred (or contempt) of women or girls. Misogyny comes from Greek misogunia It is parallel to misandry—the hatred of men or boys. Misogyny is also comparable with misanthropy which is the hatred of humanity generally).which is a personal insult. 

The whole thing could have been stopped there, if the rules against personal insults had been followed.

 What you fail to understand is that you can be insulting without ever using a curse word or calling someone a derogatory name.  That is where you fall short alameda.  You cannot comprehend that you are just as guilty as anyone who has the guts to come right out and call a spade a spade.

What I find humorous about you is that you are consistently telling people to re-read your posts.  Does it not occur to you that the problem may not be with the reader, but with the poster? 

 Actually girleegirl, I have a lot of communication in that area. 

No, I don´t intend to be perceived as intolerant, nor do I think that is true.  There is a difference between being tolerant and approval.  I tolerate many things I would rather not.  That is also a freedome, is it not.  Now can you give some specific examples of how you get that impression?

What I find interesting is the fact that it is the same people that have problems and call a "spade a spade".  When someone else does it, you get upset.  I am consistantly in your line of sight.

And do you not see the fact that there is a difference between the use of curse words and not using them. 

Last words I´ll say to you, you´re not worth any second more of my time and energy: I rather have honest people using curse words right in my face than hypocrites using lines and lines with difficult words, meaning the same but not brave enough to say what they really mean. Honest but swearing people I can reply to, those hypocrites are behind ones back. One guess in which group I place you.

 We can´t all be Trudy can we? Who knows whose way is right. Unless we communicate we cannot understand one another. If you read your own message once more, you too will realize it contains personal attacks. I would like to apoligize to you should you feel attacked by me in the past. We all three must be setting an excellent example to how far from perfection we humanbeings are. More than often, we write those long messages in the hope of defending a right cause. I know some people don´t even read them. I guess they irritate some others who prefer simplicity over sophistication. Well, I don´t chose your way but I don´t want you to peek fun at mine either.

At the end of the day, there is still a type of person, a European who detests any foreign elements in their society and put the blame for all the calamities in their society on those people. In this country too there are people who defend that Turkey would be hundred times better, if it was possible to send the Kurds somewhere else. The simple answer to this question is we can´t and you can´t either. So, let us not talk about an option which is not available to us within the human boundaries.

Catwoman, Yes, I do feel entitled to respect, as do I feel everyone & thing is entitled to respect.  Respect is one of the lubricants of society that ensures a smooth ride.

 It could be our definition of the word respect is different.  Respect as I am using it is in the more archaic definition=consideration.  That does not mean you have to agree, but it means one should conduct themselves in a courteous manner.

Respect

Benito Juarez, a full blooded Zapotec Indian, and the only Amerindian president of Mexico said, "Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace."
(Orig: Entre los individuos como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz.)”

Honest questioning is one thing, but willful (or maybe lazy?) ignorant criticism that does nothing to gain knowledge, criticism that accuses, certainly seems intended to provoke & is quite another thing. Many times I have seen accusations made against Islamic culture that is unfounded, but when that is countered, “those” people are told they are intolerant…..or just ignorant. Just maybe one and a half billion people have found something of value?

As far as showing or having respect and understanding of the “other” side, maybe if it weren’t being crammed down their throats they could actually take a look and decide for themselves?

 Perhaps if you would read the actual words instead of filling in what you think I mean (aka prejudge) a different conclusion would be reached.

 
Well, I grant you more respect, because I do think you are worth while working towards understanding, and anything that works towards that aim is a worthwhile project.

I’m sorry if my words are too difficult and complicated for you, however the use of curse words has very different meaning.  Like a hamburger is not a steak. 

As you have informed us many times, you are yourself a teacher, so I’m sure you have the skills to find the meaning of any word you find strange.

I don´t have much time but I couldn´t fail to congratulate Trudy on her post. You really hit the nail on the head, and I´m saying it as a person on the other side of barricade - the immigrant.

I´ve always found it obvious that when you decide to live in a foreign country, it is you who should adjust yourself to that country rules,not the other way around. Immigrants, especially those from other cultures,  tend to forget that they chose to live there, they weren´t forced to, so they should have known what to expect. Plus, governments of European countries do a lot to make the adjustment process easier and do not limit immigrants in carrying out the practices that do not stand in opposition to the law.

one more time, thank you, Cloggie

Daydreamer, we have a Polish village in Istanbul. The village is populated bt those  who escaped from a war and sought asylum in the Ottoman Empire. The sultan granted them a village which happens to be located in one of the enviable parts of modern day Istanbul. These people did not change a bit since the first day.

They observe the basic duties of citizenship in Turkey and continue to live on the way they learned from their ancestors. They are obviously Christian and therefore strangers in this newfoundland. We Turks are happy to eat at the restaurants and learn about the Polish customs they have preserved over centuries. Asking those people to become Turkish would mean oppressing them. I personally don´t want any non-Turkish person within this society to become a Turk eventually. There are Russians, Japanese, British and American people living their lives the way they want to. African Turks who have gained citizenship have not become Turkish at all. They are still African complete with their traditions and music and they are way nicer this way. What you are singing praises for is a misconception common among the citizens of richer countries. It is what the black population in America remembers with awe and hatred. Everybody wants to hold on to their cultures and everybody has a right to do so.

As for some Arabic or Turkish types chasing their women in the streets calling them "whores". Well, I am sure there is a law paragraph covering this in this country and that person really belongs in a prison rather than the streets. Aren´t there any Dutchmen out there molesting women and therefore deserving punishment. How come do you expect these people to be as educated as you are when they obviously lack any sort of education. The ethnic paranthesis there is just serves the purpose of putting the blame on cultures. These people would indeed be problems in their own countries too.

 I happen to think the only thing that Trudy finds strange....is you.

strange

adjective

  (Especially the second word of number two is correct about my thoughts, Teas....   )

 Where are your specific examples?  Your statement that you "have a lot of communication" is certainly not specific. 

All I did was turn your words right around on you but you are too blind to get that. 

And really alameda, you should know that there wouldn´t necessarily be specific examples of an impression!!! 

 Who cares if it´s the same people?  You continue with your way of insulting and they continue with theirs...you really should get thicker skin.

And if you reread my post (really how could I resist??!?!?!?) you will see that I stated very clearly that I do not see a difference in using a curse word or not using them.....it´s all a matter of how you spin it.  You choose to cut low in your way and others choose another....it cuts just the same if you have thin skin.

 Ladies and gentlemen may I present exhibit A -  

Get over yourself.   I do read the actual words.  I know you like to think that anyone who dares disagree with you is uneducated and unintelligent alameda but I can ASSURE you....I am neither.

 Perhaps, since you think "certain people" misinterpret your words,  you could take the advice you have sooooooo graciously given others and take more care in what you write.

Reminds me of a  song  by Aretha Franklin. You sometimes need to shout at the top of your lungs to be entitled to it.

So let´s sing together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0XAI-PFQcA

Respect? My parents told me it is something you need to earn not just given at any occasion. (And my parents are/were religious and quite conservative.)

Aww, sounds like you had nice parents.  I have to agree I never thought of "respect" as an entitlement.

Seems we have another cultural difference thing here.

Ýn ours, one ´human being´ deserves respect till it proves otherwise same like innocent till proves guilty.

Seems you have it the other way around !

 What is Respect?

Sarah Cobb describes the importance of framing values clearly in one´s narratives.

 
Every human being and nation, irrespective of their power or strength, has the right to be respected. “Respect is an unassuming resounding force, the stuff that equity and justice are made of.”[1] It means being treated with consideration and esteem and to be willing to treat people similarly.. It means to have a regard for other peoples’ feelings,[2] listening to people and hearing them, i.e. giving them one’s full attention. Even more importantly, respect means treating one with dignity. Respect is the opposite of humiliation and contempt. So where the latter can be a cause of conflict, the former and its opposite can help transform it. As William Ury writes in his book The Third Side: “Human beings have a host of emotional needs- for love and recognition, for belonging and identity, for purpose and meaning to lives. If all these needs had to be subsumed in one word, it might be respect”.

Importance of Respect in Peacebuilding and Conflict Transformation

Respect is the first positive step in building a relationship and relationships are central to conflict transformation.  One does not have to like a person or understand his viewpoint to accord him respect. Respect comes with the belief that a person or culture can have beliefs contradictory to ours and we should still honor them, as basic respect is a fundamental right of all human beings. In addition, goals and concessions become easier to attain when the element of respect is present As Bill Richardson, the US permanent representative to the UN put it. “You have to be a human being. You cannot be arrogant..... If you treat each individual with respect, each nation with dignity, you can get a lot further than trying to muscle them”

A case example is that of John Kamm, the founder of Dui Hua Foundation. Kamm has been successful in persuading the Chinese government to release political prisoners, when many others have failed. He has found that approaching the Chinese “with dignity and respect facilitated their response to his inquiries and uncovered a wealth of information regarding the status and well being of thousands of political prisoners.”

Peacebuilding and conflict transformation strongly emphasize the human relationship aspect. Therefore, for peacebuilding to succeed, the element of respect is essential.

Written by:

Sana Farid

Sana Rizwan Farid (Karachi, Pakistan) attended the University of Karachi, where she earned a B.A degree (2002) and an M.A. (2003) in international relations. Sana interned at the Oxford University Press in Karachi in 2001. In 2002, she worked as a research assistant for the Program on Peace Studies and Conflict Resolution at the University of Karachi, where her research focused on the civil war in Afghanistan. The daughter of an Indian mother and a Pakistani father, she has seen firsthand the problems caused by the strained relations between the neighboring countries. Sana was a volunteer teacher of underprivileged girls from 1993 to 2000.

 Canli....please don´t think all Westerners are that way....as we see, some are.

Vineyards said:

Daydreamer, we have a Polish village in Istanbul. The village is populated bt those  who escaped from a war and sought asylum in the Ottoman Empire. The sultan granted them a village which happens to be located in one of the enviable parts of modern day Istanbul. These people did not change a bit since the first day.

They observe the basic duties of citizenship in Turkey and continue to live on the way they learned from their ancestors. They are obviously Christian and therefore strangers in this newfoundland. We Turks are happy to eat at the restaurants and learn about the Polish customs they have preserved over centuries. Asking those people to become Turkish would mean oppressing them. I personally don´t want any non-Turkish person within this society to become a Turk eventually. There are Russians, Japanese, British and American people living their lives the way they want to. African Turks who have gained citizenship have not become Turkish at all. They are still African complete with their traditions and music and they are way nicer this way. What you are singing praises for is a misconception common among the citizens of richer countries. It is what the black population in America remembers with awe and hatred. Everybody wants to hold on to their cultures and everybody has a right to do so.

As a matter of fact I have seen Polonezkoy and, much to my disappointment, I haven;t met any Polish-speaking people there. I talked to a waiter in a "Polish" restaurant that didn´t serve Polish food about the owners. He said they were of Polish origin but assimilated and considering themselves Turkish. The only time they´d use Polish was when their family came for a visit. Apparently throughout the years they intermarried with Turks and now are Turks with Polish roots. I found that perfectly normal. They are the way you may want to see immigrants integrate - they take upon them their new homeland´s duties, speak the language and, at the same time, preserve part of their heritage that does not stand in opposition to that country´s law.

Imagine a one-million flow of immigration into an Islamic country (and I do not consider Turkey to be Islamic but secular with a twist towards Islam). Laws of that country demand proper dress code for women, male assist during walks and ban on alcohol. Now, say the immigrants are Polish, they find that barbarian and women walk around in short skirts and show cleavage, smoke in the streets, drink alcohol and demand supplies of pork after Sunday mass. Would the native population be tolerant towards such behaviour? Would they "respect" their right to a different lifestyle? I seriously doubt it.

Nobody´s asking immigrants in Europe to forget their ancestry and heritage, what many Europeans hold against Muslim immigrants is that they don´t respect the freedoms granted by each country´s constitution. Trudy put it really nicely - they don´t have to like that, they don´t have to do it the same way, but they should accept it that other people are free to live according to the rules of the country they grew up in. If you move to a different country it is you who should adjust. If in your country you can smoke pot legally, you can´t expect to be able to do it in other countries.

As for some Arabic or Turkish types chasing their women in the streets calling them "whores". Well, I am sure there is a law paragraph covering this in this country and that person really belongs in a prison rather than the streets. Aren´t there any Dutchmen out there molesting women and therefore deserving punishment. How come do you expect these people to be as educated as you are when they obviously lack any sort of education. The ethnic paranthesis there is just serves the purpose of putting the blame on cultures. These people would indeed be problems in their own countries too.

Fair point about education. We should now think why immigrants from poorer countries tend not to, with exceptions of course, care about education. In "western" countries educatioon (primary and usually secondary) is compulsory so it can´t be said that immigrants, in particular their children, are not given a chance. Most countries, if not all, run FREE language courses for adults. Social welfare usually assists people financially with different courses aimed at gaining qualifications. All you have to do is to make use of that help. Besides, there are laws against discrimination of immigrants. Yet, still, it is the host countries that are continually criticised for their lack of understanding and respect.

I won´t provide you with a link, but when we talk about respect, all human beings are legally granted respect as long as they live by the law. Even if they break it they are entitled to it. If you claim that making fun of a religion is a sign of lack of respect  then I believe it is lack of respect to criticise my beliefs that make me ridicule religions. It works two ways. I have right to believe Mohamet/Jesus/Buddha are as good a subject of jokes as anything else and you have the right to consider them Gods and pray to them. How can we reach agreement without violating each other´s right to freedom of belief?

I might be a spoilt post-communistic central European but I am absolutely positive that making fun of other people´s sacrum doesn´t mean lack of respect for those people. I´ll write it again:

Making fun of religions does not mean you don´t respect other people´s right to believe. You may like and respect a person but still find what he or she believes in funny, just like you may like your friend for being a great dancer but make fun of his or her singing.

Great post DD!!

Let cannons roar in honor of this great post

It all boils down to this. You say making fun of religions is OK. I say making fun of religions is ethically wrong. It is just a matter of which ethic code we are to use. Now that they use theirs and you, yours why don´t you make a few exceptions just to win hearts. If you ask me all beliefs are incredibly funny but I would make this statement just to put the record straight about my own stance and not because I have a problem with what other people choose to believe.  As a person who read both Quran and the Bible (a version of it), I would say both the Christian society and the Muslim society lead their lives almost completely outside the rules of their religions. So what we are talking here is not merely religion but also  culture.

Culture is an integral part of a person. It is not just a choice or preference either. It is how that person cooked as a result of constant exposure to his social setting. You can´t strip a person of his culture all too easily. Making fun of one´s culture will not serve anyone other than you. You will just entertain yourself this way. If I understand Jesus correctly, this is also against the main tenet of the Christian faith.

I can keep on writing all night but it seems there is simply no way to make you feel comfartable with this idea. I am trying to open a paranthesis in an area which seems absent or present in another form in your culture.

Furthermore, all my previous remarks about foreign people were about legal citizens. I am also against illegal immigrants.

This is typical of you you lot..... this post is about Catwoman and you have to make it about religion and racism talk about off topic!!!

oh and respect!!

 What are you talking about?

  A drunken observation on a thread that was about The Cat......

 ....but a perfectly valid observation with or without the aid of alcohol

I think, this topic´s title should be changed. I recommend "Crappy Woman and her arselicekers" to re-entitle it.

Who is catwoman? Who is she? What´s her contribution to this world? What´s her achievements in her life? Plase answer these questions before licking that woman like a lollipop.

Anyway, this is a nice video from utube, depicting cat"moan" superbly. Watch and Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J9epFCFkwI

After reading your message, the most striking contribution of hers seems to be her avoiding making a negative and impolite contribution like yours.

Why don´t you write on loo walls for a change. I am sure you will find vast audience in those circles. They will prefer to read your silly posts rather than listening to the sound of their own farts. 

Thank you Vineyards.

I realize I am a bit late to make a contribution to this post, but catwoman, I think the rubber suit (in the first photo) is lovely.  It brings out the "OW" in your "MEOW"!!

I agree but only for a few minutes (still enough time for a few pictures). 

Who can wear it for more than a couple of minutes on a sunny day?

 This must be her night outfit....  She struts in a bikini by day!

 sexy

 It´s a black rubber bikini as well.

  - someone posted this pic a couple of years ago - I think it was GG!

 Damn it, you have uncovered my unoriginality

 ......or possibly your double identity!!!  

 Nope it wasn´t me but it certainly made me giggle!

  sssshh

Wait!!  Are you saying you are me???  Then who am I???  Offff I am so confused now! 

Well, I´m not so sure she is now  - I thought I´d uncovered some TC trickery - but if it wasn´t you who posted the bikini cats in the first place.....hmm.....back to the drawing board  .

Second thoughts.....it may have been an Aenigma Variation who posted the cat pic first - ever been to IOW LL2??

 Nope never been to IOW so I am not AE.....still confused!!!

Can I just choose who I would want to be cuz I don´t want to be stuck being just anyone!   

So does that mean that GG has shared my private pictures that she asked me for on msn..?

 Well....she says it wasn´t her ....but she seems a bit confused!

You are not LL2!  Please answer your own questions not other people´s 

But of course you can choose to be anyone else you want to - why not be theh as he´s disappeared and we need a welcoming committee. (I refuse to mention the B.B. as I am above that sort of comment  )

 Stop confusing me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    uhhhh....who am I?????     LL2??????????????  Black sea brothers?????????????????????? 

Ý may help a lil, Do you know bird language ?!

 tweet tweet!!!

LL2