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Shooting stone throwers not a crime
(21 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Sep 2009 Tue 09:29 pm

The top appeals court decided a soldier who shot at a group of protesters throwing stones and killing one in Turkey’s Southeast could not be punished because of the special circumstances of the region...

 

In a decision that is expected to set a legal precedent, the top board of the Supreme Court of Appeals decided the noncommissioned officer who shot seven bullets at protesters throwing stones at his military vehicle in the southeastern province of Siirt in 2005 was not guilty, dismissing the prosecutor’s office’s argument that the officer should have fired in the air.

..

...

 

According to the decision, if a security official facing a crowd of stone throwers fears for his or her safety and fires on the crowd to kill, he or she will not be seen as criminally culpable.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com...e-2009-09-22

 

....

 

 

Then when you go around and start telling Israel ´one minute you are killing civilians´, how can you think that the others will take you seriously??

2.       teaschip
3870 posts
 22 Sep 2009 Tue 09:56 pm

Quote:

According to the decision, if a security official facing a crowd of stone throwers fears for his or her safety and fires on the crowd to kill, he or she will not be seen as criminally culpable.

 

 

Why couldn´t he simply fire in the air and avoid hitting the crowd?  Unsure

3.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 24 Sep 2009 Thu 02:18 am

 

Quoting teaschip

Quote:

According to the decision, if a security official facing a crowd of stone throwers fears for his or her safety and fires on the crowd to kill, he or she will not be seen as criminally culpable.

 

 

Why couldn´t he simply fire in the air and avoid hitting the crowd?  Unsure

Who knows really!!

This is simply to say that ´if you are living in kurdish areas and if you are a Kurd, as a state, I  care less about your life or the law will protect you less because of the region´.

Because the decision is based on special regional circumstances!!!

If this decision is applied, almost every similar case (if it is taken to the EU Human Rights court) is bound to find Turkey guilty!!!

Then how can you go and argue that ´oh it is EU they are Christian club´  and then how can you turn around and say ´there is no different treatment to Kurds in Turkey´?

 

 

4.       armegon
1872 posts
 24 Sep 2009 Thu 03:28 am

Better to read carefully "Despite his repeated warnings, the crowd continued to throw stones..."

5.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 24 Sep 2009 Thu 12:47 pm

 

Apart from the fact that "but the stone throwers were warned before shooting to kill´ is a quite  pathetic defence and that type of defence can find  supporters in countries like Israel, but   I think some people are  missing the whole point there :

The top appeals court decided a soldier who shot at a group of protesters throwing stones and killing one in Turkey’s Southeast could not be punished because of the special circumstances of the region...

 

That means, if a similar incident happens in the west part of Turkey, they may punish the soldier. 

This is clearly a case  about discrimination and to show that how justice system can prevent the justice itself..

It is not going to be a huge surprise if the case is taken to EU human rights court and Turkey is being punished..

 




Edited (9/24/2009) by thehandsom
Edited (9/24/2009) by thehandsom

6.       armegon
1872 posts
 24 Sep 2009 Thu 09:55 pm

It was not a defence, just a point to be mentioned as it was pretended to show here that he was shot without warning. And I couldnt pass without referring, in west or any part of Turkey, not 150-200 Turks or any other ethniticies grouped to stone the forces and blockade them all the time but terrorist supporters do, not just protestors, stones can be replaced with generades as well... 

7.       teaschip
3870 posts
 24 Sep 2009 Thu 10:04 pm

If it was self defense is one thing...but just to shoot in a crowd randomly..I see your point thehandsome..if it was in another region and descent he would have been punished.  Just curious...stone throwing?  I mean how big were these stones?  Do they have big stones just sitting around Turkey for people to throw?  Roll eyes Maybe a dumb question...but it reminds me of the barbaric days!

8.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 24 Sep 2009 Thu 10:11 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

If it was self defense is one thing...but just to shoot in a crowd randomly..I see your point thehandsome..if it was in another region and descent he would have been punished.  Just curious...stone throwing?  I mean how big were these stones?  Do they have big stones just sitting around Turkey for people to throw?  Roll eyes Maybe a dumb question...but it reminds me of the barbaric days!

 

why don`t you go throw stone at a police officer in America, and see to what extent they can get barbaric?

 



Edited (9/24/2009) by mhsn supertitiz

9.       teaschip
3870 posts
 24 Sep 2009 Thu 10:15 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

why don`t you go throw stone at a police in America, and see to what extent they can get barbaric?

 

 

Our preference here in the states are more sophisticated.. our weapon of choice are guns. Find me a stone big enough and I would be more than happy to. Big smile Most of our police are crooked!

10.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 24 Sep 2009 Thu 10:22 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 

 

Our preference here in the states are more sophisticated.. our weapon of choice are guns. Find me a stone big enough and I would be more than happy to. Big smile Most of our police are crooked!

 

you have no stones at all there? if you come to New England you will get plenty off them in various sizes. it`s such a suitable environment for a riot. Big smile

11.       teaschip
3870 posts
 24 Sep 2009 Thu 10:27 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

you have no stones at all there? if you come to New England you will get plenty off them in various sizes. it`s such a suitable environment for a riot. Big smile

 

 No, the only stones sitting around are in people´s landscaping.  We only have pebbles and small rocks. .Sad  But I think downtown they use baseball bats....Big smile

12.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 25 Sep 2009 Fri 01:13 am

 

Quoting teaschip

If it was self defense is one thing...but just to shoot in a crowd randomly..I see your point thehandsome..if it was in another region and descent he would have been punished.  Just curious...stone throwing?  I mean how big were these stones?  Do they have big stones just sitting around Turkey for people to throw?  Roll eyes Maybe a dumb question...but it reminds me of the barbaric days!

 

Sorry teas, but it was a lil bit of dumb question..

The size of the stones (or even self defence) was not the issue here really..

13.       libralady
5152 posts
 25 Sep 2009 Fri 02:59 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 

 

 No, the only stones sitting around are in people´s landscaping.  We only have pebbles and small rocks. .Sad  But I think downtown they use baseball bats....Big smile

 

 Isn´t small rock a stone? I would call "stone" in someones landscaping a "rock" <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)  Looks like you are between a rock and a hard place on this one  Satisfied nod

14.       teaschip
3870 posts
 25 Sep 2009 Fri 03:24 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Sorry teas, but it was a lil bit of dumb question..

The size of the stones (or even self defence) was not the issue here really..

 

 Hmm...maybe look at my previous posts and you will see I understood your point.  But I find it odd that people are still throwing stones...these days.  I do have a valid question...are stones just sitting around the road for people to throw?  Again in my enviornment we have just basically gravel...small rocks so I don´t see how someone could be threatened to shoot someone else.  Again, just trying to have a visual on the episode as to why someone would shoot in a crowd...

15.       teaschip
3870 posts
 25 Sep 2009 Fri 03:32 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 

 

 Isn´t small rock a stone? I would call "stone" in someones landscaping a "rock" <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)  Looks like you are between a rock and a hard place on this one  Satisfied nod

 

 Not here...a decorative stone is used in people´s landscaping.  A rock is something "small" found along the road you would skip accross a creek.  A pebble is even smaller maybe used in your fish tank..Although you could also put a rock in your fish tank and maybe even a stone depending on how large your tank is. A boulder is bigger than a stone...also found in landscaping but more often in the mountains.  Anything else you want to know about stones here?Big smile

 

 

16.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 25 Sep 2009 Fri 04:08 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 

 

 Hmm...maybe look at my previous posts and you will see I understood your point.  But I find it odd that people are still throwing stones...these days.  I do have a valid question...are stones just sitting around the road for people to throw?  Again in my enviornment we have just basically gravel...small rocks so I don´t see how someone could be threatened to shoot someone else.  Again, just trying to have a visual on the episode as to why someone would shoot in a crowd...

 

Ok ok..

May be you have a valid point. I just thought of the idea that if you are protesting in New York, you would not even find stones to throw at the police. - quite pathetic -

But cities in South east of Turkey are quite different and you will find many streets with many stones around  or maybe  you could find them from nearby land. ( To be honest, when I read the article , it never came into my mind even for a second,  if they are ABLE  to find stones to throw .)

 

 

 

17.       alameda
3499 posts
 25 Sep 2009 Fri 04:14 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 Not here...a decorative stone is used in people´s landscaping.  A rock is something "small" found along the road you would skip accross a creek.  A pebble is even smaller maybe used in your fish tank..Although you could also put a rock in your fish tank and maybe even a stone depending on how large your tank is. A boulder is bigger than a stone...also found in landscaping but more often in the mountains.  Anything else you want to know about stones here?Big smile

 

 

 

Here..???..where is your  "here"?  Have you ever heard about being stoned to death?  Stones can be formidible weapons.

 

Where I am....a stone can be very large, or small.  Stone Age, Rock of ages...

famous rocks.....

more rocks.....

famous stones.....this one....



Edited (9/25/2009) by alameda [add]

18.       teaschip
3870 posts
 25 Sep 2009 Fri 04:59 pm

Quote:

Have you ever heard about being stoned to death? 

 

Of course...that´s my point exactely!  Something that took place many moons ago.  You don´t hear about people being stoned to death very often in the U.S.  Unless of course where you live is unique...

19.       libralady
5152 posts
 25 Sep 2009 Fri 06:02 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 

 

 Not here...a decorative stone is used in people´s landscaping.  A rock is something "small" found along the road you would skip accross a creek.  A pebble is even smaller maybe used in your fish tank..Although you could also put a rock in your fish tank and maybe even a stone depending on how large your tank is. A boulder is bigger than a stone...also found in landscaping but more often in the mountains.  Anything else you want to know about stones here?Big smile

 

 

 

 How very confusing, the decorative pieces of geology in our gardens (UK) are called "rocks" and the bits of geology on my drive way is called shingle (sort of like gravel) but shingle can be graded by size......  I would put stones in my fish tank (if I had one).  A boulder is something where we can agree.......... we find them on mountains too! <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

 

20.       teaschip
3870 posts
 25 Sep 2009 Fri 07:23 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 

 

 How very confusing, the decorative pieces of geology in our gardens (UK) are called "rocks" and the bits of geology on my drive way is called shingle (sort of like gravel) but shingle can be graded by size......  I would put stones in my fish tank (if I had one).  A boulder is something where we can agree.......... we find them on mountains too! <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

 

 

 The term "shingle"  here is used as a material that covers your roof top...or could also be a medical condition.Big smile

21.       libralady
5152 posts
 26 Sep 2009 Sat 12:45 am

 

Quoting teaschip

 

 

 The term "shingle"  here is used as a material that covers your roof top...or could also be a medical condition.Big smile

 

Yes I know! <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> 

 

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