http://www.voicesnewspaper.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2401

I read this article some time ago... Does anybody know some news about rebuilding of Artemis Temple ?

A oagan temple in a muslim country?

Dont ruin my topic!!!! 

Ahh, that wonderful biased and clueless point of view which I am used to hearing from people whose reference for a "Muslim country" is only Iran or Saudi Arabia.

- There are a lot of Churches and Synagogues in Turkey. You don´t have to search secluded corners for them, just take a walk in İstiklal avenue that lies at the center of İstanbul.

- Although there are a lot more native and immigrant Muslims in Greece, building a mosque in Athens has been a taboo for around half a century and is still being negotiated fiercely atm. Greece is a European Union member. (I am not bashing Greece in particular here, just the hypocrisy)

I actually started taking sick pleasures from oh so tolerant Westerners lecturing us, please don´t stop!

ah, my dear, boy. im sorry for your sick pleasures. i dont consider myself so much tolerant as westerners (so far im still that nazi racist christian). simply im neither a westerner.

for your information, chuchres and synagogues arent considered pagan.

you didnt built those churches or synagoges, they existed before turkey became turkey.

what have i said to ruin your topic? 

1)

There is not much difference for Islam, all are heresy. Moreover, from a historical point of view, pagan beliefs posed a threat for Islam only for a short time in its birth phase in the Arabian peninsula (that´s why it´s emphasized in Kur´an), whilst Christians have been an archnemesis for Turks for the past millenium. One would expect more intolerance directed at their worship places; say, one like the destruction of nearly all Ottoman Churches in the Balkans by our tolerant Christian overlords.

 

2)

-MERYEM ANA SURYANI KADIM KILISESI: (Mother Mary Suryani Ancient Church) Built in 1960 in Beyoglu / Istanbul.

-NEVE SALOM SINAGOGU: (Neva Shalom Synagogue): Built in 1951 in Kuledibi / Istanbul.

 

-Plus many others were restored or rebuilt in the last century, like Anglican Church or Surp Krikor Armenian church and many more. You may need google translate for this but here goes: http://www.istanbullife.org/kilise_ve_sinagoglar.htm

 

More importantly, yes most have been built before Turkish Republic was founded but still nearly all of them have been built in Ottoman era, which was Muslim.

Sorry, my dear, aunty  if we disappointed you as we are not intolerant, bigoted or prejudiced against the pagans and paganism as you think we are.

By the way,  I am amazed by your ignorance and lack of history knowledge. 

please feel free to say, "upsydaisy is neurotic"

What about Artemis ? 

What does it have to do with this thread?!??

(Joking Tbh. I have not heard of anything about that restoration project, I just wanted to say sorry for hijacking your thread)

ah hello my neurotic friend. i see you are still upset with my joke. well, some people have no sense of humour.

you dont disappoint me at all. im not thinking of your intolerance or prejudice as you suspect me of. havent said anything like that. you and your brothers (armegon, yersu) tend twist my words.

my point was on the laws and regulations. in most muslim countries building or restoring of religious buildings other than mosques were forbidden.

and upsy daisy, you are more than welcome to educate me and enlighten me. maybe it will heal my ignorance?

im waiting...

Come on Limon...they are living from historical places like The Temple of Artemis...

hey, me too sorry for taking a discourse. of course, you are right.

i have nothing against the greek temple

and I said nothing against the turks, I didnt mention of anything like intolerance or prejudice. just some zealous nationalist members see what they want to see both in my posts and in me. what a shame.

and i repeat koran itself doesnt consider judaism and christianity as pagans. and enemies are something different than pagans. which has nothing to do with a thread.

and of course, the idea of restoring the temple seems to be interesting yet something highly challengable. it requires a lot of money, expert thorough knowledge.

but still a pagan temple in a muslim country. sounds quite strange. what would neighbouring middle east say?

im more used with `gâvur` name 

 definitely you are not mobile lemon and obviously with no knowledge on Turkish  cultural heritage. Perge-pagan, Myra-pagan, Truva-pagan, Selcuk-pagan,  Antalyan Hadrian walls-pagan just examples and many,many sites pagan...terrible Turks!!!!!!!!!!they preserve so many pagan places!!!!!!!!!too many!!!!!!!!!! all they should do is to get some dynamite and blow !!!!!!!!!!

 upsy,don´tyou exaggerate???Lemon knows everything.She could work in Sybille  temples if there was still employment´s demand in PAGAN temples in Turkey.She is  the TLC expert on everything,I dare to say you are an ignorant in not having noticed that!

im trying to get your point. what is it?

of course, you are an expert on Turkey (in your own eyes).

so tell me, how many of them were restored or rebuilt?

nooooooooooo, I thought im a poor simple woman from Kazakhstan - soviet republic who ows so much to ptaszek(a proud daughter of her country, the question is which country?), without her sheltering me I would probably die of hunger.

and I have never been to Turkey, never had relatives, never had a dudu too, so this means I have absolutely no right to say anything about Turkey. genius!

I mean the logic is soooo simple just freshly taken from the kinder-garten´s survey. the conclusions and the statements are so deep that im almost drowned.

On a serious note: while discussing why do you go personal? why dont you stay on the subject itself.

 lemon.darlink,i do not consider myself an expert but my knowledge helps during official visits.Helps to those who see Turkey via stereotypes of 1990 bazars)

The Artemis rebuilding is a great idea and as far as I know funds will be found to make this idea real.Turkish people and authorities care!!!!suprisingly!!!about their past and  they do their best to preserve history,proud of it,at least I got such impression during university study visits,visits to archeological sites and finally politicians-decisions makers talks. The history is a key factor for tourist industry and it is the main Turkish priority) All agree the history despite roots-religious,social,etc is important and worth preserving.

Thanks for the answer Birdy... so the project is not forgotten..

 your humour appreciated)))

your question has two ends,why you are doing the same?offending people,calling them names?taking personal grounds?

if you are not expert then why do you call me one? if you help people (polish people i suppose) to see turkey the way you see its your business. I dont know any single pole who sees turkey negatively. most of them speak of turkey with a gratitude esp. in regards of bazars of ´90s. whats wrong with that?

the other part of your post I just allow myself ignore. that kind of general bla bla is not interesting to me.

twoje wywyzszenie sie nade mna jest glupie i primitywne.

where? show me? where do I go personal like you do? show me?

 ohhh,lemon,lemon!!!if only you could know...virtual reality possesed you!poor you!!!

you see? you again go personal. calling me poor. now shall I start calling you names?

 lemon,i am a perfect reflection of you. A kind of alter ego)))Please do not pretend you have not noticed)

now as I have a real life I will leave virtual reality hoping the virtual life does not become your real..nothing personal..just a thought.Sweet dreams)))

the thing is that we are like day and night. theres nothing that reflects me in you. we are complete opposites of each other.

you are the polish version of Libra, sometimes I think exact copy of each other.

im not interested in the virtual life thing, thus I ignore it.

 I am not upset wth your joke, aunty lemon. (!). But since you know me better than I myself do, I admit I must have been upset, but not been aware of it.  Just because I said, "plase feel free to say upsydaisy is neurotic" you  make a quick assumption that I have no sense of humor. Thank you for teaching me what I am,madam. What if I didn´t have you? What if you had never been born? I would be living without knowing this fact then? Well, if you say upsydaisy has no sadistic sense of stupid humor, You´ll be right then.

Even a blind can see you´re ignorant. This sentence is quoted from one of your previous posts:

"you didnt built those churches or synagoges, they existed before turkey became turkey."

Mmm...where do I begin to correct it?

  I know it now.

ok, lalalala, fine. i dont know you at all. i didnt know you were turkish. i never noticed you before.

what was your thought on the above sentence? I would love to know

Dear Lemon;

First of all I want to apologize if I have offended you, I don´t want a conversation based on exhanging insults, I don´t have any personal problem with you.

And contrary to what you think I am not anybody´s brother, nor would I enjoy ganging up on someone. In fact I recently had a very serious fight here with upsy_daisy, I think moderators will vouch for the truth of my words.

Anyway; here is why I got furious by reading your post:

First of all, is there even a single person on earth that worships the Greek Pantheon anymore? It´s so clear that this is just a historical / touristic monument, where did all that "Pagan Temple in a Muslim country" stuff come from? Besides how come anyone not be aware of other religious worship places that already exist in Turkey, I mean come on; there is an Orthodox Patriarchy in Istanbul!

To be honest; at times I really think you have a bone to pick with Turkish people, I am talking by my limited experience here. Just the other day I posted something from a blog(which was incorrect) and you replied along the lines of: "You Turks are notorious for these kind of fake stories". I don´t remember it exactly but I am sure of the phrase "You Turks". I mean can you tell me why I am the nationalist here but not someone who lumps every Turk out there with phrases like "You Turks bla bla"?

My conclusion is; if you have a bone to pick; it´s OK. I am not proud of it but I have my own prejudices against some people too, so I can not judge you on this one. But just let´s be honest, please stop this whole righteous act when it´s so obvious that you are not. It´s not like people are going to chase you with sticks or anything. I for once prefer a forum with varied and even extreme points of view vs a forum full of the usual Turkish self boasting / glorification.

My regards.

hahahaaaaa! because I am so small as not to be seen?  Your methods all are as old-fashioned as you are,aunty. Someone must tell you that they don´t work anymore! Why not you try to find some new ones? Or are you getting upset and losing control?   

Dear Yersu,

I never was offended or insulted by you and you know that.

Its just you picked on my one sentence and built the whole opinion and made it as if it was mine.

we both know there are no mass worshippers of those ancient deities (unless there are little sects or individuals). it wasnt my point that you turks arent letting them to worship, they were gone before ottomans.

the only thing I wondered the interesting thing that a pagan temple can be restored in a muslim country. or is it not muslim? or unless the tourism is more important.

i know the existence of churches and synagogues and I never stated otherwise.

I still dont know your point.

Why do turks think that other opinions except praising are the sign of hatred? because I have different ideas nationalists make a turkish hater out of me.

basically I hate eastern mentality, eastern culture. Take it as you wish. but all my ideology is based on my observations.

if I say that easterners are fond of urban legends, its not my fault. its true. you go and talk to any easterner, any blog any website, they spread hoaxes. and many believe.

and i perfectly know why they spread. purely out of complex.

so what was your thought on my previous statement? what was wrong with it?

im waiting.

Recently i said you didnt care women of Turks when you asked for women rights in Turkey, if this is the one you implied that i tended to twist your words, you corrected me that was for Arab women. And i apologized ( i think that post was deleted).  So far i dont remember any other else.

i apologize for generalization and exaggeration.

Turkey is a country which tries to stay secular. And as far as i know there are many restorations and excavations ongoing, the only problem is the money source.

fair enough!

of excavations I heard of. turkey is a land of historical artifacts treasures.

I just googled a bit. browsed the list of all religious buildings. and I wouldnt say that the information I read supports the restoration much.

anyway, thanks

 Let´s see birdy, you have been a poet and a psychologist and amongst your incarnations......what are you now, a diplomat? 

Are you still wearing that nazi uniform?!

its in laundry. it got dirty. they (not nazi nationalists) threw their venoumous eggs last night.

 but at least you do!!! i love ladies in uniform!!!

My latest trend is sty away from arguments and i ll But just letting yersu know, yes there are still some peopland more than you ll ever imagine- who is worshipping greeek pantheon, make sacrifice for zeus etc...you can find in online comunuties or somewhere else if you are connected with religious stuff-there is a group in turkey with more then 1000 members-

I would say much more things from first hand how Turkish government-not Turks- is tolerated for other worship places, but i do not find myself in the middle of another argument, since my only reason of benig here is fun.But anyone who is curious about that issue, can make a search in google about ´cem evleri´. -i am not alevi or muslim at all.Just pointing right direction-

awww you got this the wrong way, it´s the arguments that are fun here!

wow, i am speechless.

 simple American way of thinking-official visits- being a diplomat

what about translation,beyond an American ken?

happy you have such a huge interest in me,are you writing my biography GG ?wanna some intimate details?

 well,I don´t know who should be flattered,me or libra?both?

short lecture on alter ego-the perfect example of it is Robert Louis Stevenson" Dr Jekkyl and Mr Hyde"

alter ego is just a complete opposite of each other..

well,lemon,you made C.Yung turning in his grave,you have no mercy over him.The poor guy spent sleepless nights working on his theories which you abolish in 4 verse post

Ps..another love letter should I expect from you in my native tongue.mercy TLC users,I guess,they also want to have fun))))

całusy!!!

 Ahhh yes, simple American me .  That could be the only explanation as to why I would make such a huge mistake in thinking you were intelligent enough to catch the nuance of the comment and not be so literal. 

The only thing larger than your imagination seems to be your ego.

Back to the topic. The temple will SO not be rebuild. There´s no point. It would be a total joke, since only a tiny part of the original materials can be used. Parts of the temple can be found in buildings surrounding the area. For example, in the nearby mosque on top of the hill. (Go inside the mosque and you can see for yourself)

And to rebuild any temple of this size with original materials (forgetting for a second that they can´t be used in this case) would cost more then 150 million dollars.

It´s a silly plan of two people who have doctor in front of their names for I don´t know which reason  It will never happen. If it does, I will eat my clog.

yeyyyyyyyy!

loved this post! I agreeeeeeeeeee!

Quoting upsy_daisy

 

 

it was too late!

Here I quote you:

Even a blind can see you´re ignorant. This sentence is quoted from one of your previous posts:

"you didnt built those churches or synagoges, they existed before turkey became turkey."

Mmm...where do I begin to correct it?

Im still waiting for you to correct me.

Nowhere its written that will be rebuild from the original materials...

How many times was rebuild the Temple of Artemis ? 

oh, i know!

I know who knows who dont know

ptaszek and upsy know everything! ask them!

btw, Reyhan jan, tell me when its rebuilt, I will go take some pictures of SOME people worhsipping Arty!

 I said that I said that if they wouldn´t use the originals, it would be a joke.

From the article:

“When completed, the temple will not be a copy or an imitation of the original Artemis but the Artemis itself. And its sisters of the past will set their eyes on it with pride and emulation.”

They said it wasn´t going to be a copy, but if you don´t use the original materials then it basically is a copy. If you don´t use original materials, and don´t make it a copy...well, then you basically just building a totally new building which has nothing to do with the temple of Artemis. Then there will be no "rebuild temple" but "a building ruining a historical site".... or when they agree that it shouldn´t be on the historical site...well...then it´s just a building. Should I call the city hall in my town the rebuild temple of Artemis as well because it has columns?

 Bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla. You dont say anything more than this.

Wow, what an intelligent come back... I was scared you would not understand my reasoning, or perhaps say something stupid... 

Seems like we dont understant the meaning of `rebuild` and waited for you to explain it.... or tell us which would be the right word to use it instead of `rebuild` ? 

Well original materiel or not, joke or not, I think rebuilding or reconstruncting the temple to its original grandeour it will be simply magnificient.  

 Yilgun? 

 No. We means me and all the others who call it `rebuild`. Except barba mama.

If you build a building, which doesn´t use the original materials, and doesn´t look like the original at all... then how is that a re-build of a temple? It´s just like Disneyland´s attempt to build an old castle... pink and plastic.

Anyway, I stand behind my original point... if they are going to rebuild the temple (so build something with the original material, OR build a temple with new materials according to original design at the old location) I will eat my cloggs.

 would you please not to quarrel with my foster mother????I started liking her after reading her response to your blah,blah,blah

Shushh! Calm down,aunty lemon!  Where did your sense of humor go?  I don´t mean to be rude, but you definetely are getting nervous over this, since this not your first post! Are you offended to be called ignorant? Come on,aunty! You are so sensitive! I will correct you when the time comes...Not now...Because I don´t want to be the reason to make you take some extra hypertension pills.

no, im not offended at all. not even a bit.

I was curious about your knowledge. I expected a solid information not a comment.

My bla bla bla is not as bla bla bla as you might think. Are you two going to eat your shoes when they don´t start the so called rebuild in the next year? The article is kind of old and they should have started already. Put your money where your mouth is and will regain some respect for the un-intelligent remark makers