Turkish Poetry and Literature |
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Sardunya´ya Ağıt- Can Yucel/ Requiem to the Gerenium
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40. |
08 Jul 2010 Thu 05:57 pm |
What is the question?
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41. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:36 pm |
Isn´t it clear enough?
Ok, then I should start from the beginning.
Poet follows the general rules of the Turkish Folk poem:
a) consisting of quatrains
b) Quatrains having the same rhyme sheme ( a-a-a-a, b-b-b-a, c-c-c-a, etc)
c) composed of verses of having the same metrical form (8 syllabels in each verse)
d) placing his name on the first verse of the last quatrain
But he changed the rule a bit and made it plural that "Canlar" here refers all the prisoners in the jail:
Canların gözü yaşta Aklı idamlık yoldaşta
Canların gözü + aklı, both are plural (their eyes + minds)
You two translated it as singular and failed!!!
Theh´s version:
Can has a tear in his eye
His mind with his comrade about to die
Yours:
Can has tears in his eyes His minds is set on his comrade
Edited (7/9/2010) by scalpel
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42. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 01:22 pm |
I actually translated that line as : Can and the fellows have tears in their eyes. You have to make a comprimise here between content and style. Is the audience reading this poem with the same political motivation as the poet and his Turkish readers or would they choose style over content? Mine is of course not the best possible translation.
As you may know, Turkish language has only short wovels which form a steady meter. In English however, there are both long and short wovels resulting in more complicated rhyme patterns like iambic pentameter etc. This is quite similar with the MEFAULUN-FAILUN-FAILATUN´s of Aruz verse. It takes a an eminent poet to come up with a translation which is technically and stylisticly excellent. Can Yucel was one such translator. His translation of Sonnet 66 by Shakespeare meets all these requirements. He probably saw that Turkish people would not want to read English sonnets and he turned the famous sonnet into a form you could listen to while drinking raki at some meyhane.
tired with all these restful death i cry; as to behold desert a beggar born, and needy nothing trimmed in jollity, and purest faith unhappily forsworn, and gilled honour shamefully misplaced, and maiden virtue rudely sturmpeted, and right perfection wrongfully disgraced, and strength by limping sway disabled, and art made tongue-tied by authority, and folly, doctor-like, controlling skill, and simple truth miscalled simplicity, and captive good attending captain ill;
tired with all these, from these would i be gone, save that, to die, i leave my love alone.
vazgeçtim bu dünyadan tek ölüm paklar beni, değmez bu yangın yeri, avuç açmaya değmez. değil mi ki çiğnenmiş inancın en seçkini, değil mi ki yoksullar mutluluktan habersiz, değil mi ki ayaklar altında insan onuru, o kızoğlan kız erdem dağlara kaldırılmış, ezilmiş, hor görülmüş el emeği, göz nuru, ödlekler geçmiş başa, derken mertlik bozulmuş, değil mi ki korkudan dili bağlı sanatın, değil mi ki çılgınlık sahip çıkmış düzene, doğruya doğru derken eğriye çıkmış adın, değil mi ki kötüler kadı olmuş yemen´ e vazgeçtim bu dünyadan, dünyamdan geçtim ama, seni yalnız komak var ya, o koyuyor adama.
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43. |
10 Jul 2010 Sat 01:25 am |
I actually translated that line as : Can and the fellows have tears in their eyes. You have to make a comprimise here between content and style. Is the audience reading this poem with the same political motivation as the poet and his Turkish readers or would they choose style over content? Mine is of course not the best possible translation.
...
...and you changed it after seeing Theh´s version? Why would we have to make a compromise here between content and style? Since the poet trickily used the tradition of placing the poet´s name on the first verse of the last quatrain, since it is as clear as crystal that there is metonymy in "Canların gözü yaşta" (Can is not his name here, but a word which means friend), there is no need to make such a compromise, in my opinion. After all you are the translator and I respect your choices.
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44. |
10 Jul 2010 Sat 02:20 am |
No, I never read another translation before translating a poem. There may naturally be parts similarly rendered but then certain phrases must be translated in a certain way.
Presenting the pun in the first verse of the last quartet in English is not as easy as you think. You need to put a note explaining the tradition. You must also provide another note explaining the equivocal use of "Canlar".
Napoleon said, the shortest way is the highway. If we were to present such technically perfect, and elaborate translations, we would prefer to publish them in the book format. I personally don´t have that much knowledge about translation. With that poem, it was just a case of hopelessly trying to improve an amateur translation. For many people here, reading poetry must be an amateur endeavour. I know quite a few things about literature but my knowledge is never complete. My profession couldn´t be more distant from literature, I am designing electronic circuits for a living.
If you have any suggestions, we could use them for coming up with an improved version of that translation.
...and you changed it after seeing Theh´s version? Why would we have to make a compromise here between content and style? Since the poet trickily used the tradition of placing the poet´s name on the first verse of the last quatrain, since it is as clear as crystal that there is metonymy in "Canların gözü yaşta" (Can is not his name here, but a word which means friend), there is no need to make such a compromise, in my opinion. After all you are the translator and I respect your choices.
Edited (7/10/2010) by vineyards
Edited (7/10/2010) by vineyards
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45. |
10 Jul 2010 Sat 10:30 am |
...and you changed it after seeing Theh´s version? Why would we have to make a compromise here between content and style? Since the poet trickily used the tradition of placing the poet´s name on the first verse of the last quatrain, since it is as clear as crystal that there is metonymy in "Canların gözü yaşta" (Can is not his name here, but a word which means friend), there is no need to make such a compromise, in my opinion. After all you are the translator and I respect your choices.
I really dont think, it was a compromise from the content. But of course it is my own opinion. I think I have the right to say and claim truthfully ´I did not change´ my translation after seeing anybody´s version´ 
ps. Maybe you should try as well.. But I dont think it is good idea to rush and translate the same poem after another person´s translation..
There are many untranslated, wonderful poems. So if you want to attempt translating poems, I would recommend find ´different ones´ 
Ama, critisism is always welcome!!
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46. |
12 Jul 2010 Mon 02:23 pm |
Sorry for giving you the impression that I am simply re-translating whatever poem you post. Others may offer their "dix points" thinking there is a childish competition going on. All these and your relentless whining force me to make this frank explanation: our taste of poetry is more or less the same and I too value those poets and their work. As a matter of fact a few of our favourite poets must the same. Nevertheless, your translations really grate on my ears. I try to rectify the situation by posting what I think "improved versions" of them. Did I have the time and energy, I would work at least a few weeks for each poem and post completely salvaged versions to honor those who wrote them and those wishing to read them for the first time.
Let me spell out something which must be quite natural to understand for everyone: to write, read, translate or to rate poetry, one must have a taste and knowledge of poetry. There are zillions of books stashed in the libraries, and there are billions living on Earth who complete their lives without ever reading a single poem. The same is true for all special or professional interests.
ps. Maybe you should try as well.. But I dont think it is good idea to rush and translate the same poem after another person´s translation..
There are many untranslated, wonderful poems. So if you want to attempt translating poems, I would recommend find ´different ones´ 
Ama, critisism is always welcome!!
Edited (7/12/2010) by vineyards
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47. |
12 Jul 2010 Mon 02:47 pm |
Sorry for giving you the impression that I am simply re-translating whatever poem you post. Others may offer their "dix points" thinking there is a childish competition going on. All these and your relentless whining force me to make this frank explanation: our taste of poetry is more or less the same and I too value those poets and their work. As a matter of fact a few of our favourite poets must the same. Nevertheless, your translations really grate on my ears. I try to rectify the situation by posting what I think "improved versions" of them. Did I have the time and energy, I would work at least a few weeks for each poem and post completely salvaged versions to honor those who wrote them and those wishing to read them for the first time.
Let me spell out something which must be quite natural to understand for everyone: to write, read, translate or to rate poetry, one must have a taste and knowledge of poetry. There are zillions of books stashed in the libraries, and there are billions living on Earth who complete their lives without ever reading a single poem. The same is true for all special or professional interests.
Ha ha
And a huge OHA!!
I have never seen more ´arrogance with no substance´ in my entire life.
Dont you see how childish your envy and you jealousy look from outside?
It is very simple..I dont care what you are and what you think. I refuse to believe our taste is the same.. Because I want to believe reading those poems make people more mature but the jealousy you are showing is telling us something about your maturity and your taste..
Your translations, specially about can yucel translations, in my view, is a slap on can yucel´s face.. Dont you see your ´rectified´ translations looks forced like some pearls coming from a constipated person´s excrement.
dont you see that? dont you really see that?
Well you are JEALOUS!! (I have seen many jealous people in my entire life but never seen so obvious as you are.. That is the truth)
Of course you are,..
Check the dates and times of those translations..
Obviously you have never thought of translating those poems!!
Obviously ´you read´ them and then you translate and all those after translations look like a spoilt prat´s cries ´me me me; look at me!´
Just go and translate anything for yourself and for poetry-eachother-lovers instead of trying to show your jealousy and your arrogance without substance..
Edited (7/12/2010) by thehandsom
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48. |
12 Jul 2010 Mon 03:03 pm |
Our taste is actually not the same. If Yucel gave up on communism and adopted a different stance you would probably say good bye to your Yucel taste. I believe you have no affinity with poetry, you just follow those poets whose political views are similar to yours. In other words, you are living in the past. Rather than getting angry, think about this.
Ha ha
And a huge OHA!!
I have never seen more ´arrogance with no substance´ in my entire life.
Dont you see how childish your envy and you jealousy look from outside?
It is very simple..I dont care what you are and what you think. I refuse to believe our taste is the same.. Because I want to believe reading those poems make people more mature but the jealousy you are showing is telling us something about your maturity and your taste..
Your translations, specially about can yucel translations, in my view, is a slap on can yucel´s face.. Dont you see your ´rectified´ translations looks forced like some pearls coming from a constipated person´s excrement.
dont you see that? dont you really see that?
Well you are JEALOUS!! (I have seen many jealous people in my entire life but never seen so obvious as you are.. That is the truth)
Of course you are,..
Check the dates and times of those translations..
Obviously you have never thought of translating those poems!!
Obviously ´you read´ them and then you translate and all those after translations look like a spoilt prat´s cries ´me me me; look at me!´
Just go and translate anything for yourself and for poetry-eachother-lovers instead of trying to show your jealousy and your arrogance without substance..
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49. |
12 Jul 2010 Mon 03:06 pm |
Our taste is actually not the same. If Yucel gave up on communism and adopted a different stance you would probably say good bye to your Yucel taste. I believe you have no affinity with poetry, you just follow those poets whose political views are similar to yours. In other words, you are living in the past. Rather than getting angry, think about this.
Again
A Huge Oha..
I think you have never ever understood what poetry is..
And you should stop this childish show of jealousy.. Try to make it NOT this obvious.
And please..
Go and piss on poetry somewhere else.. will you?
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50. |
12 Jul 2010 Mon 03:08 pm |
Do you mean jealousy in the sense: "how can you be jealous of someone whom you pity?"
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