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My neighbour, the Turk...
(28 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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1.       sophie
2712 posts
 24 May 2006 Wed 05:07 pm

This is part of an article that was published in a popular Greek newsparer. It's a representative sample of how Greek people are seeing Turks, through the years.

It took me hours to translate and maybe you will find typos in it, but it's really worth reading.

My neighbour the Turk. My neighbour the Greek.
by Theodoros Gregoriadis

The Turkish disease deplores me for about forty years now, having passed from a lot of phases and fluctuations. With recessions and elations just like the planned in advance provocative episodes.

I was a child and between the first words that I learned at the refugees’ quarter I was living in, I was distinguishing the heaviest and unknown phrases. I heard my grandparents communicating better in Turkish while my dad was also entering the discussion. It was not the memory of the Turkish language, that my grandparents maintained, forty years after their immigration. For them it was a bilingual experience. No grievous memory could prevent the Turkish-speaking dimension of their life.

In the meantime I was learning English and German from a schoolteacher that was coming to my village. In the beginning of my puberty I was laughing at the Turkish films that were played in the local cinema while, next to me people were crying with sobs, not only the refugees of my village but also the deeply rooted locals to which I owed the second version of my origin. At school I learned how great enemies the Turks were and in the ruins of the old houses I was playing “war” against the soldiers with the red 'fez'.

By the end of the 70s Turkey was for me the country of the missing people, like those 'missing' ones that their Cypriot mothers were searching for, with their photos in their hands. I was studying English literature, the invasion in Cyprus was a fact when the western culture invaded from everywhere in the student apartment of Selanik. No time for people from other religions!

Later came the army. The navy, to be accurate. And the naval forces in contrary to the landish, have as a reason of existence only to defend the country from the “hostile” neighbour. We watched the 'Sismik' and the 'Hora'. We, like them, went in and out in territorial and non territorial waters – a little difficult to engrave borders above the wavy sea! Some moment we found each other so close, that we greeted with a Turk sailor.'Could he be my enemy' I wondered. 'Is he a threat to me? Should I exterminate this kid that looks so much like me? '

There was something in that scenario I didn’t like then. Something absurd and false blew as a “meltem”.Some others were deciding for us to become enemies with those people next to us, same as today, some others, are pre-deciding for our friendship. However, no matter how many policies are engraved, how many plans are worked out, nothing can substitute the human factor: That sailor in the 'hostile' deck, that smiled, even though his smile could not be distinguished. I saw it wide. The conferences and the reasons go and come like waves and storms. The humans however constitute their constant values because the sentiments cannot be marked on a map, only in their souls.

After my military service I happened to meet the 'hostile tradition' from within. Appointed a professor in the area of Evros river. I began to travel in the East.

First stop Adrianoupolis (Edirne) that I could see before from my balcony in Orestias. I slipped in the bazars, in the hamams, in the delicious restaurants, I met all sorts of people, students, workers, people from “this” and “the other” side of Evros river’s bank. The lost East sprang up in the fairy tales of the 80s, a little anarchic, a choppy fellow, also dizzy with what it should have to face in the 'modernised' years to come. Holidays in Istanbul, in Izmir and in Ayvalik, back and forth from our islands to the Asia minor’s beaches. Friends, parties, companies, friendly or romantic meetings.

Later, the fanatic hysterias began, the bombs and the terrorism. My European selfishness protested. I got stubborn. I had the impression that they were betraying me once more. I withdrew with a dizzy speed from the EuroAsian coasts, sunk in the European vision, but each time I was visiting a European country I was feeling like wandering in a inanimate museum. Something was absent there and it was making me ache.

It was the forgotten East, the guilt of denying our other self, the nocturnal emission of the Orthodox subconscious, the minaret that was rising threateningly above the clubbing's labyrinth of the European big cities.

A little later I was drifted by another attribute which they also tried to implant to our brains, just when we discovered our alleged European self: the Balkan.

The Balkan “virus” took an epidemic form in the 90s. Finally I got tired of the Balkan states' violence and inability to reach an agreement, as well as of Wast's sneaky attitude. Deplored between Balkans and East I began to turn again, towards the second. As if it was concerning me more. Was it more Mediterranean? Was it the sea? The fate of genes? Whatever it was, I do not believe that there exists any other relationship in this world, more passionate and sick, between two cultures and religions. Two nations and two continents.

The earthquakes mobilised all those who did not have memories and genes of the East. The conflicts in the depths of the ground brought up new consciences. We, the "infected" of East, got frightened again. Wondering: “will the rest of the Greek world understand us now?” Because, I insist, the question of approach is a verbal question. For as long as visas, fake passports, arming expenses, parades, conferences, pacts of friendship and bisector lines exist, the people will be prevented from communication. Let people meet each other freely and then you will see.

Basically, now, each of the two countries, walks in it’s own road, calmly and civilized. I wish today’s single roads will turn into double-direction ones. To the East and to the West, even if they are cut somewhere in the snobbish and catechistical Europe.I believe that with some European “pollution” Turkey will review it’s old and new self. Frightened and thinking some deeper, maybe it will bend with comprehension on this small neighbour country that hurried so much to change direction once…

The opening to the world, the globalisation, perhaps will force all of us to see our genuine priorities and the real loves. And that we are not alone. Till then, however, the “dert” will be continued. Offfff beeee!


2.       RICK
96 posts
 24 May 2006 Wed 05:38 pm

Quoting sophie:

This is part of an article that was published in a popular Greek newsparer. It's a representative sample of how Greek people are seeing Turks, through the years.

It took me hours to translate and maybe you will find typos in it, but it's really worth reading.

My neighbour the Turk. My neighbour the Greek.
by Theodoros Gregoriadis

The Turkish disease deplores me for about forty years now, having passed from a lot of phases and fluctuations. With recessions and elations just like the planned in advance provocative episodes.

I was a child and between the first words that I learned at the refugees’ quarter I was living in, I was distinguishing the heaviest and unknown phrases. I heard my grandparents communicating better in Turkish while my dad was also entering the discussion. It was not the memory of the Turkish language, that my grandparents maintained, forty years after their immigration. For them it was a bilingual experience. No grievous memory could prevent the Turkish-speaking dimension of their life.

In the meantime I was learning English and German from a schoolteacher that was coming to my village. In the beginning of my puberty I was laughing at the Turkish films that were played in the local cinema while, next to me people were crying with sobs, not only the refugees of my village but also the deeply rooted locals to which I owed the second version of my origin. In the school I learned how great enemies the Turks were and in the ruins of the old houses I was playing “war” against the soldiers with the red 'fez'.

By the end of the 70s Turkey was for me the country of the missing people, like those 'missing' ones that their mothers were searching for, with their photos in their hands. I was studying English literature, the invasion in Cyprus was a fact when the western culture invaded from everywhere in the student apartment of Selanik. No time for people from other religions!

Later came the army. The navy, to be accurate. And the naval forces in contrary to the landish, have as a reason of existence only to defend the country from the “hostile” neighbour. We watched the 'Sismik' and the 'Hora'. We, like them, went in and out in territorial and not territorial waters – a little difficult to engrave borders above the wavy sea! Some moment we found each other so close, that we greeted with a Turk sailor.'Could he be my enemy' I wondered. 'He is a threat to me? Should I exterminate this kid that looks so much like me? '

There was something in that scenario I didn’t like then. Something absurd and false blew as a “meltem”.Some others were deciding us to become enemies with those people next to us, like today, some others today are pre-deciding for our friendship. However, no matter how many policies are engraved, how many plans are worked out, nothing can substitute the human factor. That sailor in the 'hostile' deck, that smiled even though his smile could not be distinguished. I saw it wide. The conferences and the reasons go and come as waves and storms sometimes. The humans however constitute their constant values because the sentiments cannot be marked on a map, only in their souls.

After my military service I happened to meet the 'hostile tradition' from within. Appointed a professor in the area of Evros river. I began to travel in the East.

First stop Adrianoupoli (Edirne) that I could see before from my balcony in Orestias. I slipped in the bazars, in the hamams, in the delicious restaurants, I met all sorts of people, students, workers, people from “this” and “the other” side of Evros river’s bank. The lost east sprang up in the fairy tales of the 80s, a little anarchic, a choppy fellow, also dizzy with what it should have to face in the 'modernised' years to come. Holidays in Istanbul, in Izmir and in Ayvalik, back and forth from our islands to the Asia minor’s beaches. Friends, parties, companies, meetings friendly or romantic.

Later the fanatic hysterias began, the bombs and the terrorism. My European selfishness protested. I got stubborn. I had the impression that they were betraying me for one more time. I withdrew with a dizzy speed from the EuroAsian coasts, sunk in the European vision, but each time I was visiting the European countries I felt like wandering in a inanimate museum. Something was absent there and it was making me ache.

It was the forgotten East, the guilt of denying our other self, the nocturnal emission of the Orthodox subconscious, the minaret that was raised threateningly above the clubbing labyrinth of the European big cities.

A little later I was drifted by another attribute which they also tried to implant to our brains, just when we discovered our alleged European self: the Balkan.

The Balkan “virus” took an epidemic form in the 90s. Finally I got tired of the violence and the inability to reach an agreement of the Balkan states as well as the sneaky attitude of the West. Deplored between Balkans and East I began to turn again towards the second. As if it was concerning me more. Was it more Mediterranean? Was it the sea? The fate of genes? Whatever it was, I do not believe that exists any relationship in this world, more passionate and sick between two cultures and religions. Two nations and two continents.

The earthquakes mobilised all those who did not have memories and genes of the East. The conflicts in the depths of the ground brought up new consciences. We, the polluted of East, got frightened again. Wondering: “will the rest of the Greek world understand us now?” Because, I insist, the question of approach is a verbal question. For as long as visas, fake passports, arming expenses, parades, conferences, pacts of friendship and bisector lines exist, the people will be prevented to communicate. Let people meet each other freely and then you will see.

Basically, now, each of the two countries, walks in it’s own road, calmly and civilized. I wish today’s single roads will turn into double-direction ones. To the East and to the West even if they are cut somewhere in the snobbish and catechistical Europe.I believe that with some European “pollution” Turkey will review it’s old and new self. Frightened and thinking some deeper, maybe it will bend with comprehension on this small neighbour country that hurried so much to change direction once…

The opening to the world, the globalisation, perhaps will force all of us to see our genuine priorities and the real loves. And that we are not alone. Till then, however, the “dert” will be continued. Offfff beeee!


What a beautiful expression of the affair of 2 worlds well it seems like a summary of the history by a civilian i just love it! Thank you sophie that you shared it with us!

3.       ramayan
2633 posts
 24 May 2006 Wed 06:52 pm

thanks sophie..enlightened us

4.       mltm
3690 posts
 24 May 2006 Wed 08:27 pm

What'r you doing Rick?!

5.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 24 May 2006 Wed 08:29 pm

he must have been impressed alot by the article
yeah it was a nice piece of writing... thank you sophie

6.       slavica
814 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 02:34 am

Warm, touching and so true story, teaching us that we have to think by our own heads, to follow our hearts, and we will realize that there is no reason to hate any people generally.
And what a great translation! Thanks for your effort, Sophie

7.       bliss
900 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 03:32 am

It is just wonderful.I am speachless because if you did not tell us it is tranlation, Sophie I would never guess.
Yes one more time we understand that we have to love each other and forget the past.Maybe our ancestors did do something wrong but where is our fault?Why we have to hate each other?
Let's love each other despite everything, my dear friends.
Thank you Sophie!

8.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 08:34 am

Well done dear Sophie, your efforts were well worthwhile !

My own experience is also that the best friend a Turk can find abroad is a Greek, and vice versa... They are very close.

They look alike, enjoy the same music, dance to similar tunes, have very similar food, rakı and uzo are practically identical, coffee is same, both play backgammon, both are loyal to friends, very hot blooded and fast on his feet.

Ladies of both sides are extremely intelligent and pretty! I appreciate your efforts to eradicate any existing stupid pseudo-feud.

Yasu Sophie mou!

9.       ramayan
2633 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 09:29 am

sophie..i ll force tayyeap to give you salary..you are working harder than our foreign minister...i announce you as turkish/greece peace ambassador..

cheers(bottles of ayran r ready)

come on everybody...lets ask sophie mou'S right and she ll give party each month 2 tc members with her new salary...

10.       k_georgia
48 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 10:21 am

Thank you Sophie I will try to find it in Greek also. Exactly our ideas! We have nothing to share with people so similar to us, so close to us. I believe that the only way to change our minds is the two people to be closer. If a Greek has a contact with a Turkish, they will feel like brothers, believe me... In fact they are the only ones who are lauphing with the same jikes with us !

11.       RICK
96 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 11:24 am

Thats why greek songs are popular in Turkey now

12.       sophie
2712 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 12:26 pm

Quoting k_georgia:

Thank you Sophie I will try to find it in Greek also.



Here is the link
The original article was published in ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΟΤΥΠΙΑ, on Friday, 24th March 2000.

13.       sophie
2712 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 12:32 pm

Seeing your reaction to this article, has given me hope.
Like the author said...'the sentiments cannot be marked on a map, only in our souls...'

14.       k_georgia
48 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 03:39 pm

We need this hope Sophie mou Especially these days...

15.       Joey
0 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 06:47 pm

Interesting topic.The aircraft incident over the disputed waters of the Aegean and the earlier burning of the Turkish flag in Athens must have soured relations between the two countries but I wonder what happens when Greece meet Türkiye on the football field at either club or national level. Do the opposing supporters get on well?

16.       sophie
2712 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 07:16 pm

Quoting Joey:

Interesting topic.The aircraft incident over the disputed waters of the Aegean and the earlier burning of the Turkish flag in Athens must have soured relations between the two countries but I wonder what happens when Greece meet Türkiye on the football field at either club or national level. Do the opposing supporters get on well?



You are right Joey. That's exactly why k-georgia in her post mentioned that we do need this hope now. Cause our relationships again are tensed. You know, it only takes a small spark and in no time the flames come to swallow us all. But i m optimistic. This whole thing will pass, as soon as those stupid reporters find something else to fanaticize the mass with...

As for football, well... even two teams of the same country fight in a match. How much more, when they are playing versus a foreign team from a foreign country. Hell!
But the last match that was held on greek ground, (I think it was about 2 years ago, but i cant comprehend the teams now) was a really peaceful match with respect from both sides.

17.       k_georgia
48 posts
 25 May 2006 Thu 07:39 pm

Quoting sophie:

Quoting Joey:

Interesting topic.The aircraft incident over the disputed waters of the Aegean and the earlier burning of the Turkish flag in Athens must have soured relations between the two countries but I wonder what happens when Greece meet Türkiye on the football field at either club or national level. Do the opposing supporters get on well?



You are right Joey. That's exactly why k-georgia in her post mentioned that we do need this hope now. Cause our relationships again are tensed. You know, it only takes a small spark and in no time the flames come to swallow us all. But i m optimistic. This whole thing will pass, as soon as those stupid reporters find something else to fanaticize the mass with...

As for football, well... even two teams of the same country fight in a match. How much more, when they are playing versus a foreign team from a foreign country. Hell!
But the last match that was held on greek ground, (I think it was about 2 years ago, but i cant comprehend the teams now) was a really peaceful match with respect from both sides.


Joey, I can propose another thing to ask us ...What happens when Greek people meet Turkish people and share raki together, talking about everything and saying jokes... The answer is only one (for me at least) : I have never been so close to people from other countries as I have been to Turkish. And I believe that most of Greeks who had a contact with Turkish have the same idea. Sometimes I am just thinking that if this tense get worst, its so normal to worry about my beloved friends in Turkey, than about a Greek that I have never met. Because , the point is not the borders and the nations but the humans and souls. There are not bud and good nations , there are just humans, as my favorite writer Aziz Nesin used to tell.

18.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 26 May 2006 Fri 08:29 pm

Dont worry about football !

A Greek friend once told me that the Greek soccer team AEK was originally founded by Greek immigrants from Beşiktaş, that they wear black and white colors after BJK of İstanbul...and are sometimes called, by fans of rival Greek teams, "The Turks".

Is that correct Sophie mou?

19.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 26 May 2006 Fri 09:15 pm

forgive me AlphaF but as far as i remember AEK wears black and yellow...
and we played national match in a near past as i remember so there were nothing as we hear and see on GS vs. FB matches or BESIKTAS vs FB which are both local turkish teams...

and lots of my friends going abroad with erasmus work and travel etc... says that greek ppl are just like us...
there is nothing weird about the relations between society... but you know sickness.. sick thoughts are everywhere... this is nearly with lots of nations...

20.       Lyndie
968 posts
 26 May 2006 Fri 09:59 pm

Bravo Sophie, that was a magnificent translation. Truly fabulous and all that hair and a flat belly off ya.....

21.       sophie
2712 posts
 26 May 2006 Fri 10:00 pm

The team that Alpha mou is describing, is PAOK.
PAOK’s colors are black and white and was first established in the Pera area of Istanbul, with the name “Hermes” in 1875.
Then, in 1923, after Asia minor Catastrophe, the Greeks of Istanbul renamed their club Peraclub in line with the new constitution adopted by Kemal Ataturk. Later, after the immigration, the refugees who settled in Thessaloniki (Selanik), in 1926, established PAOK which translated means the Panthessalonikian Athletic Club of Constantinople. They say that the colors were: “mourning black to symbolize the tragic history of the Greeks in Turkey and white, the color of optimism, a window onto the future, symbolizing their struggle for tomorrow and the victories they intended to win.”

AlphaF is right. The fans of the other Greek teams, call us Turks. (I say “us” cause PAOK is my favorite team )

However, like Sui said, there is AEK (Athletic Union of Constantinople), another Greek team, also established by refugees from Istanbul. I don’t know much about their history and never cared to learn actually. But I know that their colors are yellow and black and the rest of us call them hanumia, meaning “women of a harem” in Greek.

22.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 26 May 2006 Fri 10:07 pm

Three cheers for PAOK !
Whatever it is they may wish to win !

23.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 26 May 2006 Fri 10:37 pm

Ale! Ale! Ale!

24.       sophie
2712 posts
 26 May 2006 Fri 11:06 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Ale! Ale! Ale!



You forgot the ooooo
it goes ale ale ale ale oooooo

25.       Lyndie
968 posts
 27 May 2006 Sat 12:09 am

God I hate football so much! The world cup will not appear on my TV! Someone gave me a Galatasaray poster for yakup's room. Off ya... i can't ruin my beautiful cream decor with a ghastly football poster - hayır hayır hayır! I wıll put ıt on the back of his door so only he can see it when the door is closed! YUK!

26.       Aenigma
0 posts
 27 May 2006 Sat 12:10 am

27.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 27 May 2006 Sat 12:13 am

Quoting sophie:

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Ale! Ale! Ale!



You forgot the ooooo
it goes ale ale ale ale oooooo



this is when we call the striker to the near supporters Sophie

28.       Lyndie
968 posts
 27 May 2006 Sat 12:14 am

The Jimmy Choos were acceptable thank you. I have put the World Cup tickets on ebay and the money raised will pay to have my little toes removed surgically so i can wear the Jimmy's!

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