As long as the matter is Cyprus you are right but you can find plenty of other examples to such conflicts. For example, the US has satanized Cuba and denies establishing relationship with this country officially. Meanwhile, this tiny nation has impoverished, due to improportionate embargos that has continued for decades. The lion got angry with the mouse who wanted to be free and his anger is still going strong. Remember Vietnam, Afghanistan and the reasons why superpowers got there. Was it worth it?

alphaf i was just trying to be unbiased because i think the greeks comitted an evil genocide of the turkish cypriots which was completely uncalled for yet no one recognises this and turkey allegedly invaded cyprus when they were just protecting the people. don´t even get me started on how no one else seems to recognise injustice when they see it

Here is some interesting information for curious people:

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Davidcarter/mak/troublesomebishops.html

For AlphaF

He said about Cyprus:

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There are two other vital questions to be honestly replied before any one can answer Barba´s question.

1. Reflect on year 1974 and do not go very far back....In the year that preceeded the 1974 Turkish Peace Operation,  just how many civilian Turkish Cypriots do you think were killed by the Greek Cypriots?

2. Now reflect on the 36 years that elapsed, since the 1974 Turkish Peace Operation.... How many civilian Turkish Cypriots do you think have been killed by the Greek Cypriots in those 36 years?

You can ask (and reply) the same questions interchanging the phrase Turkish Cypriots with Greek Cypriots, and vica versa..

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Trying to expand AlphaF´s thaughts I would like to remind  that during the last years, there are many killings in Turkey from Kurds in what you call "terrorist" actions. There are also Kurds killed by Turkish army. So with AlphaF´s way of thinking, the best thing that could happen is to have a "peace operation" and two separate states in Turkey. One Turkish and one kurdish. Or maybe if there are some killings in a suburb of Istanbul (or Athens), or between two villages, the best idea is to have more "peace operations" and more independent states.

Personally I belieave that people must learn to live together, and use their differences for good. This is not personal for AlphaF, but to all those who believe that their country/city/children family are the best in the world...

i agree with part of what you are saying ogrenci3000 but if you have an enemy you don´t especially want to embrace your differences together. maybe you shouldn´t fight but you have the right in the world to make your own decisions and everyone has preferences so there is no use in throwing them together and expecting them to settle their problem civilly

live and let live, and don´t force things through that aren´t going to happen

one, at a time....shoot !

1. Cyprus was an independent state, mutually owned and managed by Greek and Turkish Cypriots.

2. The President of Cyprus State was Makarios (an Orthodox Bishop of Greek Cypriot origin), elected by democratic votes.

3. The foundations of this State were based on an international treaty: the same treaty designated Turkey, Greece and England as guarantors for the safety of Cypriots and the independence of their state.

4. Just before 1974, Greek Cypriot terorizm mounted on the island. Civilian Turkish Cypriots were daily victims and the State seemed unable or unwilling to stop the terorists.

5. In 1974, thru a Greece backed coup, led by a well known Greek Cypriot terrorist named Sampson, the legitimate Cyprus Government was toppled and President Makarios was murdered.

6. Turkia, as one of guarantor nations of Cyprus sovereignity, called on other guarantor countries to interfere and return affairs to a fair order.

7. Other guarantors (Greece and England) were not interested to back up their signature.(Greece in fact was backing up the coup, and British military base on the island was unharmed ; so, neither of the countries considered themselves under any responsibility for murdered Turkish Cypriots, or a legitimate President murdered on the streets)

8. Turkia intervened alone, established control and safety over half the Island. This was done after prior notification of other guarantors.

9. Years passed with a Western pressure on the Turkish side to find a resolution. Part of the Island populated by Turks were under an unfair siege, in all aspects. But at least, daily murder rages on the island were stopped.

!0. United Nations than formulated a solution (Annan Plan) which proposed uniting the two sides based on a fair new understanding...reviving the toppled independent Cyprus State, in which both sides would be represented in fair terms.

11. This proposal was put to a referandum among Cypriots of both sides.

12. Turkish Cypriots voted towards accepting of UN proposals, expressing their desire to resurrect the toppled independent Cyprus State. Greek Cypriot side voted against the proposal, either because (1) they were happy with prevailing conditions and did not want any change, or (2) they were not happy with the proposed deal which offered them only a fair share in management of the proposed independent State.

13. The UN proposal failed. International opinion thus had a chance to observe which side was an obstacle against the only fair solution. Western States however, are still pressuring Turkia and Turkish Cypriots to find a good solution (?) to the problem. Turkish side of the island is still isolated and unrecognised by the international community; Greek Cypriot side was awarded by an addmission into EU....Turkish side was punished only because they honestly supported the revival of a joint, independent and fair CYPRUS STATE, as proposed by a Union of the same Western Nations.

14. Items 1-13 above bring the situation pretty much upto date. You are all invited to fill in your personal Item 14´s, expressing your own wishes and anticipations for the future.

To ogrenci:

Kurds and Turks are not the only two etnic groups in Turkia. There are at least 15 other ethnic groups in Turkia, which should all have an equal say in this issue.

To be perfectly democratic,  the entire citizenry of Turkish Republic can be offered a referandum and asked to chose between two possibilities,

1. Give Kurds their independence, with parts of Eastern Turkey they claim, and wish them good luck.

2. Keep the unity of the country in its present form and kick all dissidents out, wishing them good luck elsewhere.

If such a separation is favored by the citizens, necessary measures should be taken that no concealed dissidents remain on either side.

Let us see what the citizens want !

This is an dishonorable presentation of Bishop Makarios, reflecting biased Western opinion. While I do not consider myself a Makarios fan, the site actually disgusted me.

Makarios was a Greek Cypriot who had honestly devoted his life to founding an independent Cyprus State, under Greek Cypriot power and management. He had no intention of joining up with Greece, nor did he sympathize with Western powers who viewed the island ony as a military (naval) base for their own purposes.

It is true that he was inclined to forget that there were Turkish Cypriots on the Island as well. His methods to overpower the Turkish minority did involve certain terorists tactics, but he was always ably responded by Turkish Cypriots who kept the situation in a stalemate.

After years of negotiations between the two sides, both parties understood that an independent state free from Turkish and Greek influences was their best bet. Had they been able to establish their sovereignity in some strength, foreign military bases would have been the next thing they would have kicked out of their island. Although sharing power with Turks did not make him particularly happy, Makarios was a true Cypriot of very independent spirit, and his anti-imperialist views were very well known.

The eventual Cypriot state, which was mutually shared by all Cypriots and Presided (thru democratic elections) by a true Cypriot like Makarios made neither the Brits (who had a military base soon to be kicked out of the island) nor the military junta ruling Greece at the time (who actually believed that the island should be annexed to Greece) very happy....This was the down fall of Makarios and the state of independent Cyprus...The President was toppled and murdered, by a Greek ( and possibly British) backed terrorist uprising.

How this mess can be cleaned up is anybody´s guess !

Greetings öğrenci3000,

How do you think we should handle it, to create a separate state in Turkie for Kurds? For example, it is estimated that there are about 3 million Kurds living in Istanbul. How should we handle that case in particular? Should we create an independent Kurdish zone in Istanbul or should we send them back to where they came from (i.e eastern or south-eastern Turkie)?

Cheers...

Edit:

Oops. With üzümbağı´s warning, I have noticed that you don´t suggest a separate Kurdish state. It was a quick read and I guess I have only read the part "separate Kurdish state" hence the above comment.

I guess you are replying without reading one another´s post. Ogrenci doesn´t suggest division as an alternative. He/She emphasized the importance of being able to live together.

There are minorities in any country. The best bet would be respecting the cultural uniqueness and cultural differences of those minorities. We denied the existence of Kurds for years when it was so obvious. Our bright thinkers came up with the idea of labeling them as mountain Turks though it was so obvious that they were not Turks. Books were written to justify the thesis that Kurds were mountain Turks. For many years, nationalist professors taught students these theses. This  bigotry is more specific to the Balkan nations than it is for the Middle East. The patriarchal, chauvinistic past of the Balkans produce these funny theories by distorting historical facts. It is like a disease and it is a costly one.