Osama bin Laden killed in shootout, Obama says

OBAMA´YA GÖRE OSAMA BİN LADİN ÇATIŞMADA ÖLDÜRÜLDÜ

02 May 2011, Monday / REUTERS, WASHINGTON

Justice according to whom ?????

DISLIKE.....

According to people who abhor terrorism.

Can you tell me Who is the terrorist please ?

Yes Aida "Justice has been done. You know that Ben Laden organized the operation of September 11, 2001, 10 years ago nearly 3,000 people died, and not just americans, a lot of men, women, children, of all origins and religions, so yes he´s the terrorist!! he doesn´t know Allah, who forbbids killing people, no religion on earth, no religion that God created can say that what ben laden did was good, or fair..I don´t like violence but when it comes to murders, they deserve to be treated like they treated innocent people!!

And i quote from the news:

Diane Massaroli, whose husband Michael was working on the 101st floor of the World Trade Center when the planes hijacked by Al-Qaeda struck, said it was a "bittersweet" moment, which had brought her some closure.

"I´m missing him all the time, but I feel that justice is done and that´s a great feeling for me. And I do feel some overall calm, that I haven´t felt in almost 10 years," she told CNN.

So if you magine yourself in the situation of this women, you´ll completely understand her and understand why american people are happy.

Nonsense....

The problem is that we don´t even think !!!...we just repeat what they taught us....what they want us to know !!!!

Have you ever asked yourself about THE NUMBERS of innocent people who died in Afghanistan by MISTAKE or DELIBERATELY ???? I don´t think so !!!

They are more than 15.000 people " children,women and old "...are they not humans, or we should always consider the Americans as humans only ????

I am not with or against Usama...I am against the way America deal with different issues !!!

Well, with all respect of your opinion, you cannot call what i said nonsense, and surely you cannot just assume that i didn´t think of people being killed in Afghanistan, and a lot of other countries, including mine during the revolution, i´m against every type of violence and i don´t care who did it and why he thinks it´s fair.

But what i wanted to say about Ben Laden, he took advantage of Islam´s name and under the name of Allah, he killed a lot of innocent people, muslims among them, so he cannot call himself a muslim, because a muslim doesn´t kill people, we´re not God on earth to make justice, but like Allah said, who kills will be killed, even if time passes, من قتل يقتل و لو بعد حين

and that´s what happened with Ben Laden, so according to Allah, justice has been done, and justice will be done for every one who´s been killed by someone who thinks he has the right to kill people for whatever reason, justice will be done whether on earth or after their death!!

Hmmm...something smells... He was living in a house outside Islamabad. Why did the Pakistani military forces not act? His body buried at sea...Why?..Islamabad is over 1000 kilometers away from the sea. Unless his picture is seen, nothing will convince me. It could all be propaganda...Seeing is believing. 

First...

Bin Laden´s death is unlikely to have any impact on the nearly decade-long war in Afghanistan, where U.S. forces are facing record violence by a resurgent Taliban.

Bin Laden was buried at sea. An official said this was done to prevent a gravesite on land becoming a shrine for followers. ( seems to be buried very quickly and I do not belive the USA military would follow Islams need to be buried within 24 hours.

I believe this is a set up for votes for Obama because a man who was dying of kidney related disease ( hepatitis C and the need for daily dialysis ) can not live this long.

Also it was said he died in 2001 from complications.

Oh it was in the new´s so it must be true...

was Bin Laden not trained by CIA to be used in Afghanistan in the first place?

Bin Laden killing brings anger, relief in Arab world

02 May 2011, Monday / REUTERS/AP, BEIRUT

When the towers were on fire after the crashes, I was in Kadiköy getting my computer monitor repaired. The whole thing was live on TV and people were watching the developments with sheer attention; then when the first building began collapsing I noticed the shop keeper next door was shouting slogans and saying he would arrange a drummer (for entertainment) to celebrate what had just happened. It felt like a human misery then. All these statements by the president and details that follow, the slogans shouted in the streets still feel the same way: human misery. That the men and women jumping out from the windows to death was one big human misery.

We are killing in the name of Allah or Jesus and making serious statements about the kill. Vengeance has been taken, the sky is blue and life is happy. Tomorrow, there will be another villain. There will always be make-believe elections. An enemy is always needed. Even if there is none, somebody will create one.

We will always be incurably backward and monsterous.

Well said Vineyard...I agree with you...Anything wrong will always be wrong.. you can not visit the sin of a father on his son/daughter. The people who were killed in 9/11 attacks were innocent as the people of Afganistan and Iraq who have been killed in various attacks. And endorsing killing of people from any other religion is against humanity...Since no Religion teaches violence..These terrorist are taking advantage of Islam and misinterpreting Quran to generate funds from affluent muslims all around the world in the name of serving muslims of the world...If these so called Gardians (terrorist) of Islam really want to do something good for muslims why don´t they open school,colleges, universities to impart education to muslims. Muslims are dying in many African states because of hunger, lack of medical facilities and of clean water..Where are these guardians...What did they do? Nothing!! They can buy you guns but not books, food, water, healthcare..TO HELL WITH THESE F***ING TERRORITS... They are earning a bad name for Islam...Thanks to them Islam is now synonyms to Terrorism...In countries like mine, where because of all their (terrorist´s) act, we are watched with suspicion always..face discrimation..People are ok with you untill unless you tell them your name..You don´t get job in intelligence agencies..you are not hired to guard VIPs or VVIPs ( read PM, Presidents and all high profile dignitaries). WHY? Because you are Muslim and you are not trustworthy..HUH!!! 

Yes, he was created by USA itself to fight against the USSR invasion in Afghanistan, trained by American Special Forces and CIA operatives in the hopes he would be a successful test project at creating an Islamic force against Soviet aggression.

USA also supported Taliban when they were fighting communist USSR.

The logic of the project was simple: promoting Islam against atheist communism.

The story is so common and familiar: you create a monster to kill your enemies + you lose the control on him later = He becomes your enemy.

And USA should ask this question to itself: If you create a monster to kill, does that not make you a monster in turn?

note: Here, of course,  the "moster" is not Islam, but terrorists created by USA.

I guess if we go back a few thousand years we can find out who really started all this, right?  And then we can analysis who got revenge first and then who avenged the revenge and so on throughout history, right? As long as your side is not the one who started it then you must be in the right? 

I personally think Osama bin Laden was a man that was responsible for many deaths (and not just on 9/11).  This is something he openly admitted and talked about and threatened to do again and asked other people to do.  I don´t think the world is better off for his existence.  At this point, I know that his death means very little with regards to saving lives.  Someone will surely take his place and the US has done exactly what he wanted...We have made him a marter.  I am sure as we respond in this forum, some person, or some military commander is planning to defend/attack/kill/ for an ideology...whether you are on one side or the other, it makes no difference.  We are all going to reap the whirlwind.  Still to the families of Osama bin Laden´s victims I would hope his death will bring some closure. 

You can defend him all you want, you can accuse the US if you want, but the fact is....long after these people and governments are gone people will still be fighting because no one is willing to see the other side.  Men like this and governments will keep there power as long as people like us keep fighting over THEIR ideologies!  As long as these entities can keep us angry at eachother, nothing will ever change.  We know this because history is repeating itself over and over and over and over.  I hope that the ideology of who is right and who is wrong and who did what to whom is soon replaced by an ideology of human dignity.   

One big human misery is a perfect statement

religion has been teaching us killing since the beginning of time

Short list

Quotes from bible :

1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it’s OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.

2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.

3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.

4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.

5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.

6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.

7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

Quran

1. As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.--2:6-7
2. In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.--2:17-18
3. Guard yourselves against the Fire prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is of men and stones.--2:24
4. They who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.--2:39
5. Ye know of those of you who broke the Sabbath, how We said unto them: Be ye apes, despised and hated!--2:65
6. Allah hath cursed them for their unbelief. Little is that which they believe.--2:88
7. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.--2:89
8. Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers.--2:98
9. We have revealed unto thee clear tokens, and only miscreants will disbelieve in them.--2:99
10. For disbelievers is a painful doom.--2:104
11. As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey´s end!--2:126
12. Those who hide the proofs and the guidance which We revealed, after We had made it clear to mankind in the Scripture: such are accursed of Allah and accursed of those who have the power to curse.--2:159
13. Those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers; on them is the curse of Allah and of angels and of men combined.--2:161

Life is funny. I read the holy Quran and after having read the parts refering to women´s role in society; I decide, what is written in this holy book cannot be the word of God. I respect women the best I can, and they respect the mightiest men in their reach due to their hormones and upbringing. What is human other than what he knows or capable of thinking. We are just a few soul who have waken up to the inadequacy of the so called sacred wisdom in creeating perfect society.

Yet since all human are the same physically and mentally though not necessarily knowledge wise, I can only respect their choices in an area I am not afraid to confess, I am not more illuminated than even the most ignorant of them all.

Why it was a kill operation? Why they aimed to kill, not capture him? He wasn´t even armed and probably had no human shiled, they really should have just shot him non-fatally, surely they are experienced enough to do so. We´ll probably get a lot more info in the months and years from now on additional details on how things went down.

The US definitely needed something that would bring general cheer for the government. Propaganda of success if the proper term I believe. 2012 will see presidential elections and Obama needs to make up for the health system reform that didn´t go very smoothly.

Don´t get me wrong, I´m not mourning Osama, I´m sure he deserved what he got, but it makes you question the idea of humanitarian ideology west claims to stand by. What happened to "aim never justifies the means?" Shouldn´t ObL be tried before being executed?

"America can do whatever we set our mind to."

This summarizes all. America is still going strong with its patriotic line. The only difference under Obama is the way things are reflected to the public.

Ocalan, the Kurdish rebel leader who is directly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people was captured in Kenya, brought to Turkey and has been serving in prison ever since.

The commandos who captured him could fill his body with bullets, I can imagine they were also full of feelings of hatread and vengeance but they didn´t. This is the difference between the European and American notions of civil rights.

I would imagine, the US was afraid of the things Obama would reveal was he given a chance to go through a fair trial. We are not aware how the whole operation was handled. Was there really no way to capture them alive. Like it is always the case, the corpses in leaked pictures seem to have received multiple bullet injuries in close range.

Now the big question is: wouldn´t it be so much better to capture the terrorists alive and question them to get information on their network etc. Only a government who has intimate knowledge about the acts and plans of a terror organization could afford to lose that information.

Most people will say justice is served. We should add to that: "by medieval standards."

Why do official declarements continue to change in time?First it was declared, he was armed and used his wife as a shield, and then it was stated neither of them has happened, he was not armed, and then it was insisted he had resisted(without a weapon?), lots of data flying around, before Pakistani leader stated that they caught him, handed over him to US forces in 2001 and US forces released him, and then there were rumours he had died because of kidney cancer in 2001 etc... 

Anyway it seems Ladin period is over, he was the created enemy after cold war, the question is who will be next bad man? Kaddafi, Zewahiri or Esad? Let American people choose one in a democratic way, that is my suggestion 

Native Americans offended by code name ´Geronimo´

This 1887 file photo provided by the National Archives shows the famed Indian warrior Geronimo, a Chiricahua Apache, posing with a rifle. AP photo

Native American leaders in the United States expressed outrage Wednesday that the name of legendary Apache warrior Geronimo was used as a military code name during the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

"To associate a native warrior with bin Laden is not an accurate reflection of history, and it undermines the military service of native people," said a statement by Jefferson Keel, president of the National Congress of American Indians, or NCAI.

Geronimo, an Apache chief who lived from 1829 to 1909, was a famed warrior who fought in what is now the U.S. state of New Mexico, battling U.S. and Mexican authorities as the American West was being settled.

Keel said using the name of Geronimo during the U.S. Special Forces operation against bin Laden in Pakistan was an affront to Native Americans because it linked them to one of the most reviled enemies of the United States. He noted that 77 U.S. troops of Native American origin have died in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001, and another 400 have been wounded.

Jeff Houser, chairman of the Fort Sill Apache Tribe, sent a scathing letter this week to President Barack Obama, demanding an apology for what Houser described as the misappropriation of their hero´s name.

"We are quite certain that the use of the name Geronimo as a code name for Osama bin Laden was based on misunderstood and misconceived historical perspectives of Geronimo and his armed struggle against the United States and Mexican government," he wrote from Apache, Oklahoma, near the burial place of the legendary warrior.

He called the link to bin Laden "painful and offensive to our tribe," especially after the U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution honoring Geronimo for his bravery and defense of his homeland. "Now a little over two years later your administration has further immortalized his existence by linking him to the most hated person in recent American history."

The elite U.S. Navy SEAL team that stormed bin Laden´s compound uttered the words "Geronimo-E KIA" - enemy killed in action - after the al-Qaeda leader was confirmed dead.

U.S. officials have stressed the mission itself was called "Jackpot" and that the name Geronimo was not equated with the al-Qaeda leader, but was the verbal signal that the mission had succeeded.

The New York Times, in its account of Obama and top officials following the progress of the raid from the White House Situation Room, described "Geronimo" as the code name for bin Laden, and quoted CIA chief Leon Panetta as saying "We have a visual on Geronimo." Time magazine, in its account, said a source in the Situation Room later issued a clarification to say the exact words were "Visual on Geronimo."

The Onondaga Council of Chiefs said there would have been an "outcry if they had used any other ethnic group´s hero" as a code name. "Geronimo bravely and heroically defended his homeland and his people, eventually surrendering and living out the rest of his days peacefully, if in captivity," the group said in a statement quoted by the Syracuse Post-Standard. As Geronimo is "arguably the most recognized Native American name in the world," the link "only serves to perpetuate negative stereotypes about our people."

The top staff member on the U.S. Senate´s Indian Affairs Committee also criticized the code name, adding that insensitive use of Native American names and symbols would be the subject of an upcoming congressional hearing. "These inappropriate uses of Native American icons and cultures are prevalent throughout our society, and the impacts to native and non-native children are devastating," Loretta Tuell, the committee´s chief counsel, said in a statement Tuesday.

She said it was the latest egregious example of a wider problem faced by Native Americans, whose names and images are used in commerce for everything from marketing professional sports teams to selling tobacco products

Religion and politics aside, Osama wasn´t/isn´t a person who deserves to live after what he did (my opinion) and if he is really dead, i´m not going to go round hosting a street party but I can honestly say good riddance. As much as I apose the "eye for an eye" statement, I would be lying if I said that if I was personally effected by his actions or even some general criminal (i.e. someone shot my relative) I wouldn´t want justice served just as bitter.

For the US government to decide whether we should see the photos or not because they are "too graphic" shouldn´t be up to them. In my opinion it should be up to the public because after all it´s the public that has been affected so much by Osama´s actions. They want proof and, as someone stated before, closure. In some cases I´m sure that some of the people that were effected (losing a loved one) wouldn´t just want to see those pictures but wouldn´t refrain from wanting to be the person to inflict those injuries upon him in the first place.

I love the way they say it´s too gruesome/graphic yet if I remember correctly we saw the personal hanging of Saddam Hussein LIVE! and it might not be the same type of graphic but watching the 9/11 being shown on every news channel whilst the camera´s got a close up of people jumping out of windows to their own deaths is definitely a sight I would call graphic.

So much for the freedom of information Act...

In my opinion, if someone issues an order entailing the death of a person without trial, he is by all means a murderer.It doesn´t matter if that person is a president. Even at wartime, there are rules governing how the sides can engage one another. The procedures of surrender and the way hostages (POW) must be treated are clearly laid out by way of international treaties.

The US is known to have violated these rules extensively.

In 1992, the American naval forces fired at the Turkish destroyer Muavenet causing the deaths of 5 officers and injuring 22 others during a naval exercise held in Turkey´s territorial waters. The rocket system that destroyed Muvenet is impossible to activate without multiple permissions and orders. In 1993, a group of Turkish officers prosecuted the US Navy. The court categorized this incident as a matter of foreign policy turning the case into a dead end.

We all remember the way the US entered Iraq following false accusations regarding the chemical weapon capabilities of Saddam Hussein regime. No one is talking about Iraq anymore. The country has been conveniently turned into a quagmire.

The US is now threatening Iran accusing them because of their nuclear energy program. We also know what is happening in Libya.

Osama was given the weapons and a pat on the shoulder by the US during the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. He defended the same cause and was regarded as a good Muslim then. Later on, he became the bad Muslim. If the US did not get involved in these organizations as a principle, there would probably be no Osama at all.

These violations of the international laws will eventually take us to a war. As a rule, no good comes out of malicious activities. Wars begin like avalanches, first a snow ball then a huge catastrophy. No matter what you have to say, I believe there are worse criminals in high places than those in the streets.