Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Turkey

Turkey

Add reply to this discussion
Moderators: libralady, sonunda
Protesters demand removal of pledge from Turkish schools
(15 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       tunci
7149 posts
 26 Jul 2011 Tue 05:46 pm

Protesters demand removal of pledge from Turkish schools

DHA photo

DHA photo

Protesters from two civil-society organizations gather Saturday in Istanbul’s Fatih district to demand the end of the daily recitation of “Our Pledge,” an oath that focuses on “Turkish values” and the greatness of founder Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

Members from the Free Thinking and Educational Rights Association, or Özgür-Der, and the Association of Human Rights and Solidarity for Oppressed Peoples, or Mazlum-Der, gathered in front of Fatih Post Office with their children carrying signs that read, “We do not want a racist Kemalist syllabus. We are rejecting the racist pledge.“

“Schools have been turned into barracks and students have been turned into soldiers,” said the group’s spokeswoman, Zehra Türkmen. “They are trying to shape our children’s mentalities with stereotypical formal ideologies. They aim to raise generations that are unable to question anything.”

Türkmen said the group was also demanding the removal of national security classes from schools and that students be taught their mother tongue in school. The group also shouted slogans demanding that headscarves be permitted in schools.

“Our pledge’s content is in contradiction with Islamic belief and is a racist recital,” Türkmen said.

A fifth-grade student among the protestors also said being obliged to recite the pledge every day was cruel.

Protesters then sent letters listing their demands to Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s office and the Education Ministry.

The removal of “Our Pledge” from schools was discussed last year, but former Education Minister Nimet Çubukçu said there were no current plans to end the classes

 

Note : I am proud of being a Turk. And the defination of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk´s nationalism is NOT like Hitler´s one. Ataturk´s nationalism is NOT based on blood, its based on "the feeling of belongingness " Anyone who feels that He/She belongs Turkish nation, anyone who loves this land deeply, anyone who thinks he/she has responsibility in working together for better future of this country is called  Turk.  Its like American,do people call themselves Italian because their father immigrated from Italy to America ? No,all nationalities living in America call themselves American..why it bothers people  that much ? Kurds, Laz people [living in blacksea area], Circassians, Georgians, Albanians,Arabs [Arab origin people in Antakya] living in Turkey see themselves as Turk. Islam is NOT conradicting with Ataturk´s nationalism.And plus you folks ,you are not the only one representing Islam in this beautiful country.

Happy is the one who calls himself a Turk ! [ Ne mutlu Türküm diyene ]

 

 

 

 

acute liked this message
2.       stumpy
638 posts
 26 Jul 2011 Tue 07:15 pm

Quote:tunci

Its like American,do people call themselves Italian because their father immigrated from Italy to America ? No,all nationalities living in America call themselves American

They are called Italian American (Italian: italoamericano singular, Italian: italoamericani plural).  You also have the African Americans, Native Americans and so on...

I for one, was born in Canada but I am Acadian because of my heritage.

Also if religion is not permitted in schools then why should there be the pledge also be permitted?  Schools are a place of learning not indoctrination and/or religion.

3.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 26 Jul 2011 Tue 08:35 pm

I for one get a bit creeped out by the Turkish pledge and how nationalist Turkish schools are. As a Dutch person it seems a bit militant. I guess I can never fully understand it as an outsider.

 

By the way, I don´t think Italian American and being for example a Kurd in Turkey can be compared. Italians were immigrants that moved to America in search of fortune. The Kurds were already in Turkey before it was Turkey.

 

I am not sure if I think the whole speech in the morning should be banned or not. I wouldn´t want my child to have to stand up like that every morning, since I think it would make her feel superior to other people, simply because she is from a certain country. But that feeling comes from my own culture. Dutch people are only proud of our nation when there is a football match on tv

Elisabeth liked this message
4.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 26 Jul 2011 Tue 11:45 pm

There was a thing called fidelity. Anyone remember what it means?

5.       stumpy
638 posts
 26 Jul 2011 Tue 11:55 pm

I think you mean patriotism gokuyum

6.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 27 Jul 2011 Wed 01:55 am

Apparently quite a few of your fellow countrymen do not agree...do you think they have the right to disagree with Kemal´s nationalism? Maybe they don´t have the sense of belonging to Ataturk´s children? Maybe their ethnicity comes before their nationality in their opinion? It always evokes a smirk on my face to hear about any authoritarian idea not being based on blood. Tell it to the Kurds Yeah, I know, the Ottomans were peaceful folks and it´s Europe´s loss it wasn´t able to appreciate their peaceful campaigns, and Ataturk is not responsible for any bloodshed at all. Everybody, without exception, turned to him and joyfully gave up their habits and customs. Sure, that is what people do when you give them a choice. I´m sure the protesters are American spies anyway, as 100% of Turkish society thinks in unison...

Native American citizens call themselves Native Americans as far as I´m concerned and are given special privileges.

Here´s a crazy idea: you are not obliged to love the country you grew up in, as it was not your decision. The country comes second, first comes the respect for an individual human being and their right to freedom of expression, even if they decide to openly speak about their dislike towards their homeland. You can´t force kids to love anyone. I´d hate it if my children´s school had a cult of an individual...a state should provide taxpayers with opportunities to earn their living and protect them. That´s what you pay for.

Quoting tunci

Note : I am proud of being a Turk. And the defination of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk´s nationalism is NOT like Hitler´s one. Ataturk´s nationalism is NOT based on blood, its based on "the feeling of belongingness " Anyone who feels that He/She belongs Turkish nation, anyone who loves this land deeply, anyone who thinks he/she has responsibility in working together for better future of this country is called  Turk.  Its like American,do people call themselves Italian because their father immigrated from Italy to America ? No,all nationalities living in America call themselves American..why it bothers people  that much ? Kurds, Laz people [living in blacksea area], Circassians, Georgians, Albanians,Arabs [Arab origin people in Antakya] living in Turkey see themselves as Turk. Islam is NOT conradicting with Ataturk´s nationalism.And plus you folks ,you are not the only one representing Islam in this beautiful country.

Happy is the one who calls himself a Turk ! [ Ne mutlu Türküm diyene ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

thehandsom liked this message
7.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Jul 2011 Wed 02:50 am

 

Quoting stumpy

I think you mean patriotism gokuyum

 

Nope. The pledge is not that important. Everyone should have a right to say it or not. The thing I protest is the hate against the founder of this country. This is what I condemn. This is something like somebody saves your life but instead of thanking him you spit on his face.



Edited (7/27/2011) by gokuyum

tunci liked this message
8.       tunci
7149 posts
 27 Jul 2011 Wed 03:17 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

Apparently quite a few of your fellow countrymen do not agree...do you think they have the right to disagree with Kemal´s nationalism? Maybe they don´t have the sense of belonging to Ataturk´s children? Maybe their ethnicity comes before their nationality in their opinion? It always evokes a smirk on my face to hear about any authoritarian idea not being based on blood. Tell it to the Kurds Yeah, I know, the Ottomans were peaceful folks and it´s Europe´s loss it wasn´t able to appreciate their peaceful campaigns, and Ataturk is not responsible for any bloodshed at all. Everybody, without exception, turned to him and joyfully gave up their habits and customs. Sure, that is what people do when you give them a choice. I´m sure the protesters are American spies anyway, as 100% of Turkish society thinks in unison...

Native American citizens call themselves Native Americans as far as I´m concerned and are given special privileges.

Here´s a crazy idea: you are not obliged to love the country you grew up in, as it was not your decision. The country comes second, first comes the respect for an individual human being and their right to freedom of expression, even if they decide to openly speak about their dislike towards their homeland. You can´t force kids to love anyone. I´d hate it if my children´s school had a cult of an individual...a state should provide taxpayers with opportunities to earn their living and protect them. That´s what you pay for.

 

 

 

Belonging Ataturk´s childeren ? Ataturk never claimed to being father of Turks, that title is given to  him by Nation itself. Cus Turkish people loved and loves  him sincerely , and greatful to him for saving the country from barbaric invasion of imperialist nations. Some few people who are provoked by spider minded people thinks that He destroyed Islam in Turkey which He didnt. On the contrary He saved Muslim population and Islam in Turkey by kicking  emperialist western powers out the country. In fact those people who are protesting "national pledge " are obviously against everything that Ataturk did..Ataturk was a human being just like us.. He didnt like  to be over praised.

They can protest , no one stops them. But one thing they should know that If Ataturk didnt start the independence war those people wouldnt have own schools to send their children to. They wouldnt have mosques to worship in...they even would have had to speak  other languages as colonised nation .

 "Kemalist ideology defines the "Turkish Nation" as a nation of Turkish People who always love and seek to exalt their family, country and nation, who know their duties and responsibilities towards the democratic, secular and social state governed by the rule of law, founded on human rights, and on the tenets laid down in the preamble to the constitution of the Republic of Turkey

Kemalist nationalism is an extension of the Kemalist modernization movement. It was brought against the political domination of sheikhs, tribal leaders and Islamism (Islam as a political system). Initially the declaration of the republic was perceived as "Returning to the days of the first caliphs "However, Kemalist nationalism aimed to shift the political legitimacy from autocracy (Ottoman Dynasty), theocracy (Caliphate) and feudalism (tribal leaders) to the active participation of its citizenry, the Turks. Active participation, or the "will of the people", was established with the republican regime and Turkishness rather than other forms of affiliations that were promoted. The shift in affiliation was symbolized with:

Turkish: Ne mutlu Türküm diyene.
(English: How happy is he/she who calls himself/herself a Turk)
—Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

 

Kemalist nationalism´s social content does not accept any adjectives placed before the definition of a nation [a nation of ...]; denounces the types of national unity based on racial, religious, totalitarian and fascist ideologies, by claiming:

Unconditional, unrestricted sovereignty belongs to the people.[11]
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
 

Regarding expansionism, Kemalist nationalism opposes imperialism and aims to promote "peace" in both the domestic and the international arenas.

gokuyum liked this message
9.       alameda
3499 posts
 27 Jul 2011 Wed 03:53 am

For those not aware, here is a translation of the pledge by Deli_kizin

 31 Mar 2008 Mon 01:40 pm

Here is my attempt of translating it so that other members can understand it too: 

Türküm, doğruyum, çalışkanım, 

I am Turk, I am honest, I am hard working 

İlkem; küçüklerimi korumak, büyüklerimi saymak, yurdumu, milletimi özümden çok sevmektir. 

My principle is to protect the small, to respect the big, to love my country and my people more than I love myself 

Ülküm; yükselmek, ileri gitmektir. 

My ideal is to (improve), to move forward/to progress 

Ey Büyük Atatürk! 

Hey Great Atatürk! 

Açtığın yolda, gösterdiğin hedefe durmadan yürüyeceğime ant içerim. 

I promise solemnly to walk on the road you have opened, to the goal you have showed, without stopping 

Varlığım Türk varlığına armağan olsun. 

May my existence be a gift to the Turkish existence 

Ne mutlu Türküm diyene!" 

How happy for the one who says ´I am a Turk´!

May I point out the fact that if you want a nation, one has to have some degree of nationalism. It is unfortunate that we are not willing to share our all with each other as yet. We do not want for our brother or sister, neighbor what we want for outselves. Most the time we give them the lesser part. The other day some "friends" gave me some water melon. I was amused to notice they had eaten the heart themselves, and given me the less sweet parts. 



 

10.       denizakkurt
2 posts
 27 Jul 2011 Wed 10:30 am

To my dear friend with the ´crazy´ idea that one is ´not obliged to love the country you grew up in, as it was not your decision. The country comes second, first comes the respect for an individual human being and their right to freedom of expression, even if they decide to openly speak about their dislike towards their homeland. You can´t force kids to love anyone. I´d hate it if my children´s school had a cult of an individual...a state should provide taxpayers with opportunities to earn their living and protect them. That´s what you pay for.´:

You are totally right in saying this and expecting this from Turkey but then in complete error in not noticing that Turkey is not a regular country and the system that she operates on cannot be evaluated by standards that other countries operate on.

 

Neither the way she is founded, nor the jeopolitical difficulties she is faced with ever since she has been established have been like other countries and this creates such a huge exception in so many ways that what you think of as being the ´cult´ of an individual is actually the only way Turkey has been able to maintain peace and exemplify some integrity and stability in the region.

This does not mean she is exempt from international human right laws and or protocols, she definitely is entitled to play by the international rules, however as a country built on the ashes of a 700 year old empire and having survived the trauma of being invaded at its heartland, a considerable majority of the citizens of the Turkish Republic feel it is extremely critical and very appropriate for Turkish people to remember what it took to save them from being a slave of the imperialist powers. So what you are criticizing here is only the Turkish people´s right to maintain their sovereignty and Mustafa Kemal is only the embodiment of that freedom fight. That being said, if you were one of those people that believed that reviving his memory and that of everyone that supported him in the Independence war was the only way to maintain your freedom, you would have supported the system too.

The rhetoric or the mannerism in which it is administered after almost 90 years may not look like it fits the human rights logic, and believe me, I would be one of the first to find ways to modernize it, but so far we are not there and therefore your criticism ends up being about people´s claim for their freedom. No human rights activist can fight something like that, not on your terms at least and I sincerely invite you to reconsider your perspective on this issue, because I am concerned that your words will get lost among a very justified cry for freedom and independence.

 

Edited (7/27/2011) by denizakkurt
Edited (7/27/2011) by denizakkurt

(15 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
TLC servers hacked, all user emails & pass...
admin: The user sign in and ... are ... with security in mind, and functional...
E-T: It´s one of the things on my bu...
gokuyum: No. It doesnt make sense. You can say ... yapmak istediğim bi...
T-E
og2009: DÜNYA TOPLUMU VE FELSEFE ... okul ... felsefe ... ....
24 HOUR FLASH SALE for learning Turkish e-...
qdemir: ...
Grammar Textbook
qdemir: ...
E-T: I see you have done this before?
harp00n: Bunu ... daha önce de ... Bu konuda iyi olduğun ç...
T-E
og2009: ...
T-E
og2009: ...
coronavirus
og2009: ...
OUR FRIENDS
og2009: ...
Coronavirus
harp00n: ...
Random Pictures of Turkey
Most commented