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Reminder of Derivational Suffix -li
(14 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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1.       Abla
3648 posts
 22 Jun 2012 Fri 12:47 pm

The derivational suffix -li, -lı, -lu, -lü is a productive piece of language. It’s funny because it’s so transparent. It makes adjectives and nouns and as a rule expresses that the entity described possesses the object or quality of the stem or is characterized by it. It is a very handy form which often needs a complete sentence when translated into English. It’s closest equivalent is ‘with’.

 

a) The possessed object can be either concrete or abstract: at|lı ‘horsedrawn’ but also ‘horseman’, sevgi|li ‘dear’, mavi|li ‘in blue’, akıl|lı ‘the one with intelligence, clever’, hız|lı ‘fast’. A question word can be formed respectively: neli dondurma? ‘what kind of ice cream?’

 

b) –li, -lı, -lu, -lü also denotes where someone belongs: üniversite|li ‘university student’, köy|lü ‘villager’, Londra|’lı ‘Londoner’, bura|lı ‘from here’. It also forms the question nere|li|siniz? ‘where are you from?’

 

c) Attached to numerals it indicates groups: üç|lü ‘threesome’

 

d) An adjective which has been formed with –li, -lı, -lu, -lü can be further modified with an attribute: kısa saç|lı ‘short-haired’, dört çocuk|lu ‘with four children’, mavi elbise|li ‘with the blue clothes’, bindokuzyüzlü yıllar ‘the nineteen hundreds’. What is even more interesting is its use with compounds where the possessive suffix has to give way to it: deniz manzarası ‘sea view’ > deniz manzara|lı ‘with a sea view’, yatak odası ‘bedroom’ > üç yatak oda|lı ‘with three bedrooms’.

 

e) Double usage of this suffix produces adjectives kız|lı oğlan|lı bir grup ‘a group consisting of boys and girls’ or adverbs gece|li gündüz|lü çalışmak ‘to work day and night’.

 

[Göksel – Kerslake, Turkish: a Comprehensive Grammar 2005]

[http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_51854]

Lady_A, lana-, tunci and Kara_Lara liked this message
2.       tunci
7149 posts
 22 Jun 2012 Fri 10:34 pm

 

This suffix also can be attached onto some infinitives by just dropping "k" in the end.

 

vurmak ----------> vurma + lı ----> vurmalı

vurma  çalgı ----> percussion instruments

*********************************

korumak ------->  koruma + lı -----> korumalı

koruma  bölge ----> protected  area

*********************************

sürmek ---------> sürme + li -----> sürmeli

sürmeli  kapı ----> sliding door

Moha-ios, Kara_Lara and lana- liked this message
3.       Abla
3648 posts
 22 Jun 2012 Fri 10:39 pm

Quote:tunci

This suffix also can be attached onto some infinitives...

 

Really? I don´t think I ever saw it before. Thanks for adding the information.

4.       tunci
7149 posts
 23 Jun 2012 Sat 12:42 am

 

Another usage of this suffix can be seen attached on some pronouns as  fixed phrase.

 

sen + li    ben + li ---> senli benli ---> familiarly

                               senli benli olmak ---> to be[behave] very familiar [friendly]

                               Onunla senli benli olma ---> Don´t be very friendly with him.

****************************************************************

siz + li   biz + li  ------> sizli  bizli ----> in an unfamiliar way , keeping distance [opposite to senli benli ]



Edited (6/23/2012) by tunci

Moha-ios liked this message
5.       lana-
352 posts
 23 Jun 2012 Sat 02:23 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

This suffix also can be attached onto some infinitives by just dropping "k" in the end.

 

vurmak ----------> vurma + lı ----> vurmalı

vurma  çalgı ----> percussion instruments

*********************************

korumak ------->  koruma + lı -----> korumalı

koruma  bölge ----> protected  area

*********************************

sürmek ---------> sürme + li -----> sürmeli

sürmeli  kapı ----> sliding door

 

I have noticed that “LI” can be added to  –mek/-mak infinitive. I assume that meaning is by doing something, with doing something…

“Selam vermekle bir şey kaybetmezsin,  ama çok şey kazanırsın.”

6.       si++
3785 posts
 23 Jun 2012 Sat 06:18 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

This suffix also can be attached onto some infinitives by just dropping "k" in the end.

 

vurmak ----------> vurma + lı ----> vurmalı

vurma  çalgı ----> percussion instruments

*********************************

korumak ------->  koruma + lı -----> korumalı

koruma  bölge ----> protected  area

*********************************

sürmek ---------> sürme + li -----> sürmeli

sürmeli  kapı ----> sliding door

 

It can be a noun clause as well:

 

Akşamları çok geçe kadar kalma ziyaretler

7.       si++
3785 posts
 23 Jun 2012 Sat 06:20 am

 

Quoting lana-

 

 

I have noticed that “LI” can be added to  –mek/-mak infinitive. I assume that meaning is by doing something, with doing something…

“Selam vermekle bir şey kaybetmezsin,  ama çok şey kazanırsın.”

 

It´s not -li suffix but ile (=with).

8.       tunci
7149 posts
 23 Jun 2012 Sat 10:32 am

 

In classical Ottoman Turkish this suffix can be seen in some loan words such as ;

 

Devlet + -----> The title that was given to high ranked statesmen [ministers, etc..]

Devletlü [ Devletli ]

**************************************

Haşmet + ---> The title that was given especially to foreign rulers, means ´majesty´, ´grandeur´

Haşmetlü [ Haşmetli ]

Note that these words didnt follow the vowel harmony

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9.       Abla
3648 posts
 23 Jun 2012 Sat 12:17 pm

Quote:tunci

Note that these words didnt follow the vowel harmony

 

I have noticed the overdose of ü in the latter syllables in Ottoman Turkish words. It surprises me. I mean if you want to break the vowel harmony why do it in the most difficult way? ü is probably the vowel variant that takes the greatest energy when pronouncing it: it is labial, it is round... Usually when phonologic rules are broken speakers are looking for what is easier, not what takes more labour.

 

Breaking phonological rules by adding some extra ü´s looks like a linguistic fashion to me. Something fancy, something done for the sake of vanity. I wonder if they really pronounced it that way.

10.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 23 Jun 2012 Sat 02:51 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

I have noticed the overdose of ü in the latter syllables in Ottoman Turkish words. It surprises me. I mean if you want to break the vowel harmony why do it in the most difficult way? ü is probably the vowel variant that takes the greatest energy when pronouncing it: it is labial, it is round... Usually when phonologic rules are broken speakers are looking for what is easier, not what takes more labour.

 

Breaking phonological rules by adding some extra ü´s looks like a linguistic fashion to me. Something fancy, something done for the sake of vanity. I wonder if they really pronounced it that way.

 

may it means: can you see how hard to pronounce even your adjectives! can you see how much effort i spend to say these! how huch value a give you! i do the hardest things for you, everbody can do the easiest ones!

 

asaletlü, rütbetlü, meveddetlü...

Sultan Abdülaziz´in ABD Başkanına gönderdiği mektup

http://www.umich.edu/~turkish/links/manuscripts/letter/letter.htm

Abla liked this message
11.       si++
3785 posts
 25 Jun 2012 Mon 12:41 pm

There are some parallels between -li and -le- suffix:

 

ara-lı ara-la-mak

ayar-lı ayar-la-mak

bağ-lı bağ-la-mak

belir-li belir-le-mek

bel-li bel-le-mek

bes-li bes-le-mek

cila-lı cila-la-mak

demir-li demir-le-mek

düzen-li düzen-le-mek

engel-li engel-le-mek

ek-li ek-le-mek

eş-li eş-le-mek

eyer-li eyer-le-mek

giz-li giz-le-mek

ilik-li ilik-le-mek

kalay-lı kalay-la-mak

kat-lı kat-la-mak

kap-lı kap-la-mak

kenet-li kenet-le-mek

kilit-li kilit-le-mek

oran-lı oran-la-mak

sak-lı sak-la-mak

su-lu su-la-mak

süs-lü süs-le-mek

şeker-li şeker-le-mek

tuz-lu tuz-la-mak

yağ-lı yağ-la-mak

yük-lü yük-le-mek

 

* Maybe (just a probability) -la- = -li + -a- which is found in

oyun oyn-a-mak

boş boş-a-mak

dil dil-e-mek

tür tür-e-mek

ad (at) ad-a-mak and at-a-mak

yaş yaş-a-mak

kan kan-a-mak

kap kap-a-mak

uz uz-a-mak

beniz benz-e-mek

don don-a-mak

bez bez-e-mek

toz toz-a-mak

kın kın-a-mak

etc.

 

 

12.       Abla
3648 posts
 25 Jun 2012 Mon 01:40 pm

Thinking about derivation always gives a good headache because it is basically random. The same suffix doesn´t give the same meaning always, you can´t sum the meaning of the word from its constituents. The only thing you can usually see is the part of speech it represents.

 

Productive derivational suffixes are easier, though. Such as -li. I have understood but I am not sure that it attaches to just about any noun and in a certain context the result is always in place and the meaning can be understood even though you never heard the word before. It´s like something between derivation and inflection.

13.       si++
3785 posts
 25 Jun 2012 Mon 02:34 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Thinking about derivation always gives a good headache because it is basically random. The same suffix doesn´t give the same meaning always, you can´t sum the meaning of the word from its constituents. The only thing you can usually see is the part of speech it represents.

 

Productive derivational suffixes are easier, though. Such as -li. I have understood but I am not sure that it attaches to just about any noun and in a certain context the result is always in place and the meaning can be understood even though you never heard the word before. It´s like something between derivation and inflection.

 

Yes -li suffix is just like a inflectional one. Another similar suffix is -lik in that regard.

14.       Abla
3648 posts
 25 Jun 2012 Mon 09:05 pm

In the grammar book which I read now four derivational suffixes are mentioned as productive:

 

1. N > N -li

2. N > N -lik

3. N > N -siz

4.a) V > N -(y)ici

b) N > N -ci

 

It seems that productive derivators are quite specific in meaning. You could almost translate them into English.

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