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MİŞ or MİŞTİ
(13 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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1.       nemanjasrb
507 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 07:20 pm

I have to ask this. What is the difference between -miş and -mişti. I mean,the both are past,right?

2.       Abla
3648 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 07:36 pm

-mIş  -  past (+ hearsay), often equals to English past tense

 

-mIştI  -  double past, often equals to English pluperfect

3.       nemanjasrb
507 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 07:45 pm

 

Quoting Abla

-mIş  -  past (+ hearsay), often equals to English past tense

 

-mIştI  -  double past, often equals to English pluperfect

 

Sağol. And what is the difference between English past tense and English pluperfect? For pluperfect I first heard now in my life. :O

4.       Abla
3648 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 07:49 pm

Sorry. They seem to use the name past perfect these days. Look here:

 

                           http://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/tensetext.htm

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5.       nemanjasrb
507 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 07:53 pm

Sorry? These days?

6.       Abla
3648 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 07:59 pm

I was taught it is pluperfect. That was some years after WW1.

 

There are some lovely schemas on that page. I wish I could find them for Turkish. =)



Edited (12/17/2012) by Abla
Edited (12/17/2012) by Abla [I tried to copy them here but they said no. Look for yourselves.]

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7.       nemanjasrb
507 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 08:04 pm

Oh,that. Okay Thank you. I´ll watch more Muhtesem,and I´ll read this. I hope it would be helpful.
For example,i heard them to say:
Ben size söz vermiştim. - I promised you. OR
Söylemiştim. - I said.
As I know,they use -miş for something that they not sure that´s really happened. But if he/she knows that he/she promis something,I don´t get why they have to use -miş(ti)... {#emotions_dlg.confused}

8.       Abla
3648 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 08:17 pm

Then you must read this thread, nemanja:

 

                http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_53653

 

tunci´s posts are especially about your problem.

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9.       nemanjasrb
507 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 08:34 pm

Tunci´s posts are always helpful. I guess it will be too this time. Inşallah.

10.       tunci
7149 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 10:12 pm

 

I call that form as Narrative perfective tense. In Turkish -mIştı  marking is used for actions that are completed in the past. By using - mIştı , we are ;

1. narrating the past action to someone

2. I witnessed or I myself  performed that action.

3. The action occurred in the definite past *

 

As in your example; 

Ben size söz vermiştim. ---> I had promised you.

 

1. I am reminding you, narrating you the event [my promising you].

 

2. I remember and i witnessed the action that it has been performed by me.

 

3. It occurred in the past and it occurred in a definite time in the past.

 

==============================================

 

The only distinctive difference between simple past tense [size söz verdim] and [size söz vermiştim] is ,  we are narrating the past event that we witnessed.

 

==============================================

3. 3. The action occurred in the definite past *

 

Although this form technically should indicate the indefinite past because of tense narrowing at present time it is used for definite past.

 According to Prof.Hamza Zülfikar ;

The definite perfective past    -dıydı    is replaced by  indefinite perfective past - mıştı 

söz verdiydim ---------------------------------> söz vermiştim

                           tense narrowed into

 

- as a result , at present time, we use -mişti form for definite perfective past time.

The nearest tense in English is  plu-perfect tense [had]

 

 



Edited (12/17/2012) by tunci

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11.       Abla
3648 posts
 18 Dec 2012 Tue 10:46 am

Now I understand why Turks sometimes use English past perfect structure in a strange way. They imitate this narrative!

 

Second language speakers often try to reorganize the language they are learning.

 

I wonder what would be the exact English translation for Ben size söz vermiştim, including the connotations tunci described. Maybe they would be expressed with intonation.

nemanjasrb liked this message
12.       Henry
2604 posts
 18 Dec 2012 Tue 11:54 am

 

Quoting Abla

I wonder what would be the exact English translation for Ben size söz vermiştim, including the connotations tunci described . Maybe they would be expressed with intonation.

 

Yes, I would stress the ´had´ part of the sentence in English

I had promised you, ....... and I will try to keep my promise.

(I am aware I made a promise to you in the past)

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13.       nemanjasrb
507 posts
 21 Dec 2012 Fri 09:11 pm

I finally read this. I didn´t have enough time..Sağ ol tunci,çooooooook. Anlıyorum şimdi.



Edited (12/21/2012) by nemanjasrb

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