I am hoping to get some opinions about Bergen and Arabesque music.I read that Bergen was very infuential and creating arabesque music, is it even true? Or she made it popular and someone else created it. I can find her songs but for some reason can´t find any concerts or music videos from her. I wondered how popular she actaully was. Or maybe she was not that popular but was reckognized more for artistic acheivement.If she is so influential, can we hear this in Sibel Can´s Unuttu Seni? And I wondered if Bengü´s song yaralı would be considered Arabesque?Her voice sounds like crying, which singer first started that?In Arabesque music, was it that Turkey tried to incorporate Arab music into Turkish music?

Another question related. I noticed on the JoyTurk Website they have a radio station "Efkar".

http://karnaval.com/stations.php#/station.php?station_id=13

What is the significance of Efkar when related to Music, is it a genre in Turkish music?

Efkar is the plural of fikir in Arabic. Fikir means idea, thought. In Turkish we say fikirler (plural) instead of efkar. Efkar has another meaning in Turkish. It means melancholy. I dont know why it means that. Maybe because melancholic people get lost in their thoughts Efkar is not a music genre. Maybe because the main character of Turkish music is melancholy, so no need to make it a music genre

That makes sense. I understand Arabesque music is moody or on the sad side.

This station sounds a bit like that.

Could Bengü´s yaralı be considered Arabesque?

Bengü is a pop singer as far as I know. I dont know if the song can be called arabesque because it is sad. There must be other criteria. But I dont know much about music. So I hope you can find someone who can answer you.

I never thought arabesque is necessarily sad. But emotional it is. Energetic. Hot hot.

I am not an expert but I have understood typical features of arabesque are long overtures and a sort of dialogue between the strings and the vocalist.

Ebru Gündeş has some songs that I consider arabesques. Like Yalan, Dertler benim olsun, Senin olmaya geldim (a very happy and bright song, not melancholic at all).

Bengü´s Yaralı? Nope, too flat.

Arabesque is something more than ´just sad music´. It is a sub-culture.

A few years ago in a column I wrote the text below about arabesque:

"But I would like to have a few words about our pop music´s illegitimate baby conceived from the folk music: Arabesque!

Sometimes it is called as  "yoz music -degenerated music ", "gecekondu -shanty town/ night buildings-  music" or as "minibus music.". This music contains almost every single aspects of the folk music but the songs mainly come from city life and culture, opposed to the rural culture which gave life to folk music. This music takes its material from the changing cultural structures of the cities after mass immigrations. The separation of the cultures in big cities and difficulties of adaptation have been the main contributers of this music. The main themes in this kind of music have  always been constant hopelessness and expressions of pain and That is the reason why some people (like me) show a negative attitude!!

 I think the name ´Orhan gencebay´  specifically should be mentioned when we talk about arabesque music in Turkey as his unique style brought the term  "arabesque music" itself."

Thanks everyone, this is helping me a lot!

Dialogue between the strings and the vocalist - cool!

Bengü´s Yaralı I thought had an Arabic sound even before I had heard of the term Arabesque (from my friend at the döner). Not only is the lyrics on the sad side but the song has a lot strings, and the percussion and rhythm I thought sounded Arabic or Arabesque. Is it possible her song is not considered Arabesque because of her association with "pop" music?

But I can see the other side. If someone from Turkey started recently listening to American Pop music and then heard a ballad or Country sounding song from Miley Cyrus and asked me about it, I would be like (yeah whatever), no that´s just a pop song.

Something that I am starting to notice is that Turkish pop singers still have a strongly developed "other" side, being a softer or traditional or ballad style. Sure, Bengü has a lot of pop/dance stuff, which doesn´t interest me, but then she has this other side with tracks like: Yaralı, güller yaniyor, ucuz mumlar, rüya, Unut beni. A bit like Madonna, a strong pop side, but lots of good ballads too.

Interesting article you wrote!

I didn´t understand your critique of Arabesque Music. I got the impression that you are more of a Turkish Traditionalist when it comes to Turkish Music and you don´t think Arabesque measures up.

But what I don´t understand is this: 2 amongst the strongest Turkish singers, İbrahim Tatlıses and Sibel Can, are Arabesque according to this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabesque_Turkish_music. Is that article inaccurate? Or are you unimpressed with İbrahim Tatlıses and Sibel Can?

Keep in mind, I´ve only listening to Turkish Music for a short time, not even a year.

Back to Bergen, I asked someone in Turkey last weekend if she was popular and I did not get much of a response.

And what about the fantazy muzik?

How about Gülay?

http://www.gulaysezer.com/diskografi.html

Is she arabesque? Is she popular.

Some of her rhythms are very complicated, I can´t even count to them. Is that from Traditional Turkish music or Arab music or something?

I know only onse song of Gülay and it is one of my all time favorities. It is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8sILUsdA0E

One of the other my all time favorites is Yusuf Taşkın´s Ağla Sevdam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc2k-XGqr18

She looks quite different in that video (from the more recent videos).

Does Cesaretin Var mı Aşka mean Do you have the courage to love?

I listened to the other song, I think I need to listen to it again.

Here is one from Gülay that sounds complicated to me. I try to count to it (i.e. 1-2-3-4 or 1-2-3) but I can´t figure it out:

Bahçada Yeşil Çınar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccPnp4sLL4I

A traditional song, I wondered but didn´t know, thanks.

For the counting, I meant the rhythm rather than the sylables. I think it is in 5´s which would be very unusual in modern music.

Any idea by Traditional how old this would be? Or how does one find out if a song is traditional?

For a Turk it is very easy to recognise a folk song. They are always written with syllabic meter. They are purer and simpler than arabesue music. Most of the time they are played with saz.

I have noticed in some Turkish songs the Lyrics of verse repeats. This was surpising to me.

For example in most English Pop or Rock songs you have something like: Verse 1, Chorus, Verse 2, Chorus.

This song below actually has the verse repeated 4 times (i.e. the first paragraph below). I was hoping to know more about this. i.e. is this common in Turkish songs or other types or music? or the origin of this?

Elveda/Bengu

Hani biz aşkı senle yaşayan bir çift gözdük
Ne oldu bu halimizi ikiye böldük
Acıtan sen değilsin tek hata yalnız bende
Böylesi canımdan çok sevmekti

Sen değil miydin bana aşk emek ister diyen
Ben değil miydim sana kalbiyle suçsuz gelen
Şimdi vazgeçtin yani bunu mu söylüyorsun
Sen de ne çok sevdin biliyorsun

Elveda diyemem sana
Sen bitir en doğru buysa
Ben yapamam gücüm yok buna
Kalbimde seni saklarım
Hayallerimle yaşarım
Benim için üzülme..

its very common in turkish music yes

Let´s go back to the birth of arabesque music in Turkey.
When it began, how it began, why it began...
When we look at Ottoman times, we dont see an arabesque music as we understand today. There were arabesque and persian music types but not melancholic or sad. Even we can see western type of music after sultan mahmud the second. (bknz: yine bir gülnihal)

I read somewhere that arabesque music start with repuclic times after radio invented and became common. In the first decades of republic (1930-195 there were a heavy westernization politics. Of course music was not excluded. Almost everything including music that belongs to ottoman era were refused. No private radio stations were there at that time. State radio stations dont broadcast what folks demand. So people started to listen arabic radio channels even if they dont understand any single word. There were no better alternative. Later, we started to use arabic types with turkish lyrics in a very heavy style that arabs dont use. Nowadays arabesque music lost its popularity.

From what I hear it seems like Arabesk music is in reality a take off,  or a Turkishization of classical Egyptian music. Some of the rhythms an riffs sound to be almost lifted from Egyptian music by composers like Abdu Wahab and others. If you are familiar with Egyptian music, you hear it immediately. 

FWIW, I find it very annoying. It´s not here nor there....If you were not familiar with Egyptian music, it might be ok to you. 

But according to Wikipedia, both Sibel Can and İbrahim Tatlıses are Arabesque:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabesque_%28Turkish_music%29

Is it true?