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Turkey May Hit Netherlands With Sanctions As Row Escalates
(22 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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10.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 21 Mar 2017 Tue 06:45 pm

 

Quoting JNQ

 

 

I´m so sad that even you fell for this G. First of all, they were not Turkish citizens, they were Dutch citizens. They were born here, their children are born here, all their families live here, they speak Dutch, they work here, they play soccer here, they pay taxes here, they will prb die here and once or maybe twice a year they visit the old country because the sun is so nice. 
Second, when this handful of hooligans was gathered, the riot police was ordered to come. Then they kept calm until the riot police were gone, and then they attacked the remaining police. They were throwing bricks and stones taken out of the street, and kicking policemen when they were down on the ground. Those images you don´t get to see in Turkey but we do. And this one man is so lucky and should be thanking god on his knees that he was only bit in his ass by a dog, instead of being shot, which would have been totally justified if policeofficers had to defend themselves. I totally agree with you things should have been handled without force, but tell that to the people who started it. And I won´t even say anything about what would have happened if this kind of hooligan riot had started on Taksim. Also I totally agree this is a win for both extreme sides. Sadly. I´m just happy extreme right didn´t win the elections in my country because of this. 

As for the ´deporting by force´ of the Turkish minster, see above and this is what I heard from the mayor: while police were being attacked, the ministers and her security agents refused to come out of the car. Dutch police were totally unaware who else was inside the car, if they were armed, what their plans were, and how they would come out of the car. They are obligated to secure the situation, so they had to take into account the possibilty that there were weapons in the car, that people would come out of that car with their guns pulled, reading to shoot or even shooting. The minister herself was never treated ´brutally´ as you call it. Had they just come out of the car, nothing would have been the matter, although indeed as she was a foreign government in the house of another government without permission, she would have been escorted out nevertheless. 
Please don´t believe anything you read in the papers. Even I don´t do that.

Also, this word ´insulting´ doesn´t mean very much in Holland. Police do what they have to do and they have a right to do it. Turkish parliament just abolished ministerial immunity didn´t they? Well, welcome to abiding the law young lady! 

 

I meant Turkish citizens of Holland. And I think maybe some of them are both citizens of Holland and Turkey. I didnt know the both sides of the story. I didnt know about holigans attacking police when they were outnumbered. All I saw that a police dog biting a Turkish protestor and police preventing others to help him. That really made me angry. Because he is a human being and he deserves to be treated so. I still think it is inhuman using dogs against protestors. There must be other methods to handle them. You say that police could shoot him. That is unaccaptable too. Is it that easy to kill a person?

I think Holland has valid arguements too. And I think it was wrong going uninvited but I still believe that to get the votes of extremists Holland goverment used unneccessary force. And that made me see that democracy is just a fancy word even in Europe. I witnessed that same things happening here every day can happen in Holland too. It was a big disappointment for me. I hate populism and vote hunting more than anything.

 



Edited (3/21/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (3/21/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (3/21/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (3/21/2017) by gokuyum

11.       denizli
970 posts
 21 Mar 2017 Tue 07:32 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

... And I think it was wrong going uninvited but I still believe that to get the votes of extremists Holland goverment used unneccessary force. ...

 

 

I don´t think that´s correct. The Dutch extremists is not the government. The Dutch extremist (Geert Wilders/PVV Paty) was/is an opposition party. They are in the parliament in Holland, but not in the Government.

JNQ liked this message
12.       JNQ
465 posts
 21 Mar 2017 Tue 07:42 pm

There was no unnecessary force used.

Police are armed. Turkish police is armed too. If they have to use their weapons, they will occasionally hurt or kill people. It has happened. In all countries. Police have the right to do so in certain circumstances.

And dogs are used on the police force everywhere. Turkish media made you believe by framing that it´s such an unusual thing to use dogs but it isn´t. They are on the airport, on investigantions, on football matches. Turkish police uses dogs too, don´t think they don´t. You can rest assured that with 50 cameras standing there it was necessary and they had a right to use them too. It´s really silly to think using weapons is better than using dogs. 
And they didn´t prevent the others from helping, they prevented the others from getting bitten by the dog.  

 

 



Edited (3/21/2017) by JNQ

denizli liked this message
13.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 22 Mar 2017 Wed 12:21 am

 

Quoting denizli

 

 

I don´t think that´s correct. The Dutch extremists is not the government. The Dutch extremist (Geert Wilders/PVV Paty) was/is an opposition party. They are in the parliament in Holland, but not in the Government.

 

I know who he is. Maybe it was wrong to use extremist term. What I meant is there  are nationalists and patriots who vote for these parties. Other than them all people more or less have patriotic feelings.A brutal action against Turkey could change the way of some votes and I guess it did. This must have been calculated by Holland goverment. All I criticise is violence, populism and vote hunting. 



Edited (3/22/2017) by gokuyum

14.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 22 Mar 2017 Wed 12:23 am

 

.



Edited (3/22/2017) by gokuyum

15.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 22 Mar 2017 Wed 12:23 am

 

Quoting JNQ

There was no unnecessary force used.

Police are armed. Turkish police is armed too. If they have to use their weapons, they will occasionally hurt or kill people. It has happened. In all countries. Police have the right to do so in certain circumstances.

And dogs are used on the police force everywhere. Turkish media made you believe by framing that it´s such an unusual thing to use dogs but it isn´t. They are on the airport, on investigantions, on football matches. Turkish police uses dogs too, don´t think they don´t. You can rest assured that with 50 cameras standing there it was necessary and they had a right to use them too. It´s really silly to think using weapons is better than using dogs. 
And they didn´t prevent the others from helping, they prevented the others from getting bitten by the dog.  

 

 

I cant approve unnecessary use of police force. It doesnt matter where it happens. No police must shoot someone unless he is attacked by a lethal weapon. Would you want polices to be like American police who can shoot people without a solid reason?

 



Edited (3/22/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (3/22/2017) by gokuyum

16.       og2009
409 posts
 22 Mar 2017 Wed 12:43 am

maybe this is a political game...politics means "giving image for communities" according to the political sciences... 



Edited (3/22/2017) by og2009

gokuyum liked this message
17.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 22 Mar 2017 Wed 01:06 am

 

Quoting og2009

maybe this is a political game...politics means "giving image for communities" according to the political sciences... 

 

That is exactly what I wanted to tell. 

18.       JNQ
465 posts
 22 Mar 2017 Wed 10:23 am

 

Quoting gokuyum

A brutal action against Turkey could change the way of some votes and I guess it did. This must have been calculated by Holland goverment. 

 

There was no brutal action. They were being attacked by hooligans. No guns were used. It wasn´t calculated by the Dutch government, is was calculated by the Turkish government. 

scalpel - - liked this message
19.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 22 Mar 2017 Wed 11:21 am

 

Quoting JNQ

 

 

There was no brutal action. They were being attacked by hooligans. No guns were used. It wasn´t calculated by the Dutch government, is was calculated by the Turkish government. 

It was calculated by both sides. It was a political game. It makes me suprised to see you fanatically defend your goverment.

 



Edited (3/22/2017) by gokuyum

20.       denizli
970 posts
 22 Mar 2017 Wed 05:09 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

It was calculated by both sides. It was a political game. It makes me suprised to see you fanatically defend your goverment.

 

 

I don´t think either Government planned it as a game. How can you plan hooliganism. These things just escalate. No different than at a Footbal Stadium. The hooligans do this, then the Police do that, then the hooligans respond, then the police respond... If the hooligans don´t stop, eventually someone gets hurt. I wasn´t there but it didn´t seem like a peaceful protest.

Anyways it doesn´t make sense for the Dutch Government to plan something like this. It was the PVV party, the anti-immigrant party who looked like they benifitted, and they are not the Government. As after the clash, Geert Wilders stated on live television, according to him: the Turkish immigrants showed thier true colors that day, that they support Turkey over the Netherlands. And then the PVV party ended up doing well in the election, finishing in 2nd place and with more seats than in the 2012 election.

 

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