Language |
|
|
|
|
|
Complicated grammar
|
| 1. |
31 Jul 2006 Mon 06:06 pm |
|
I am new to this site. I know some Turkish and have been learning from tapes and books. My friend in Turkey (who is an English teacher) advised me to concentrate on vocabulary and not get too involved with complicated grammatical construction which - he says - will come in time (as it would with a child learning to talk). I am aware of past/present/future tenses etc and basic suffixes so is it really necessary to know so much about the grammar at the start - your discussions are just confusing me!
|
|
| 2. |
31 Jul 2006 Mon 06:08 pm |
|
Welcome to the site.....
I am sure it is not necessary to know very much about Turkish grammar in order to be able to learn the language. But ultimately any language is a set of words that can be strung together according to grammar rules!
Is there anything in particular that is confusing you???
|
|
| 3. |
31 Jul 2006 Mon 08:27 pm |
|
Yes I understand that. I just think that I may be trying to assimilate too much 'advanced' grammar too quickly. I think I need to thoroughly grasp the more simple stuff - even if it means I can only use fairly simple sentences - before I move on. I think that people will make an effort to understand what you are saying if you make the effort to say it - if you see what I mean. A lot of our Turkish friends don't speak very 'correct' English but we do understand them all the same. They ask us to correct them and usually they do the same for me (my husband still hasn't progressed past food and drink, hello and goodbye!) It is hard to try and speak Turkish in Turkey as they all seem to want to practice their English on us.
|
|
| 4. |
31 Jul 2006 Mon 09:01 pm |
|
You could certainly do worse than trying to post some simple sentences in the "Practice Turkish" forum.....that will give you the opportunity to increase your grammar skills at your own pace.....
|
|
| 5. |
31 Jul 2006 Mon 09:58 pm |
|
Forget about the grammar. You can learn most of the grammar intuitively.
You can learn Turkish by only reading texts with the help of a dictionary. If you know enough grammar to find a word in the dictionary then you don't need to study more. Keep reading and reading.
Example:
"gidiyorum"
When you look at this word if you know that you must find "gitmek" then don't study any grammar.
|
|
| 6. |
01 Aug 2006 Tue 04:14 pm |
|
Thanks for the good advice Erdinç. I can usually work out what the infinitive is so hopefully that's a good start. I think - for the moment - I'll stick with the way I was learning before - as much vocabulary as I can learn together with as many 'set phrases' as possible - like 'kendine iyi bak', 'görüşÃ¼ruz' and others in everyday use. String them all together and hopefully you will have the beginnings of a Turkish speaker!! 
|
|
| 7. |
01 Aug 2006 Tue 05:36 pm |
|
Quoting erdinc: You can learn Turkish by only reading texts with the help of a dictionary. |
There seems to be a distinct shortage of suitable texts to read......I have not even found a single Turkish children's book available in England 
|
|
| 8. |
01 Aug 2006 Tue 06:29 pm |
|
Our friend Ali Akpınar has written some books I think. You could check his website or ask himself. He is a member here.
http://www.study-turkce.com/
http://www.turkishclass.com/user_aliakpinar
|
|
| 9. |
01 Aug 2006 Tue 08:12 pm |
|
Quoting erdinc: Our friend Ali Akpınar has written some books I think. You could check his website or ask himself. He is a member here.
http://www.study-turkce.com/
http://www.turkishclass.com/user_aliakpinar
|
Thanks Erdinç - although the link isn't currently working for me
|
|
| 10. |
01 Aug 2006 Tue 09:18 pm |
|
When we go back to Turkey in October I think I'll look for some children's books to bring back - this seems like a good way to practice reading Turkish. I'm just going to try Erdinc's link now. No - not working for me either.
|
|
| 11. |
01 Aug 2006 Tue 09:34 pm |
|
It was working for me.. maybe there are too many people trying to get to the website at once 
|
|
| 12. |
01 Aug 2006 Tue 09:40 pm |
|
What makes our language difficult is not the advanced vocabulary or tenses or personal suffixes. These are managable. The difficult part is verbal adverbs and verbal adjectives and advercial clauses build with them.
Among them we have the famous -dik suffix (geldiğimde, okuduğu zaman, aradığı için, göremediğinden, etc are all -dik suffix versions) and -iken, -ince etc.
Unfortunately children's books include these words as well. Therefore a children's book in English might be easy to an English learner but a children's book in Turkish is not easy for a Turkish learner.
Another big problem is that the İslamic community have their own publications and books for children. These are totally rubbish and include words that have been omited from our language 50 years ago (a long time in our standards).
I don't think a foreigner can easiliy identify a kids book written from İslamic perspective. They are trying to spread their politics on every issue. Be sure you have an educated and modern person with you while you choose any book.
|
|
| 13. |
04 Oct 2006 Wed 04:58 pm |
|
Quoting erdinc: Forget about the grammar. You can learn most of the grammar intuitively.
You can learn Turkish by only reading texts with the help of a dictionary. If you know enough grammar to find a word in the dictionary then you don't need to study more. Keep reading and reading.
Example:
"gidiyorum"
When you look at this word if you know that you must find "gitmek" then don't study any grammar.
I guess I keep banging on about this. I totally agree that getting bogged down with grammar can hinder you because you become aware of mistakes you may make. If you are not free to let the language flow then you don't learn.
Since I have been TRYING harder with the grammar not only have I made more mistakes but have not been enjoying learning.
When I learnt things without questioning the formation and just accepted it as translated I was doing much better.
So back to the drawing board.....
|
|
|
| 15. |
05 Oct 2006 Thu 05:24 am |
|
Well , I too think turkish grammar is very complicated but I am trying hard to learn it...although I cannot be as fluent as I'd like because I am TOO focus on making no mistakes when writing!
I think the grammar questions on the forum are VERY USEFUL and interesting but they also confuse me sometimes or when they are very "advanced" I feel turkish is so difficult and there is so much to learn, also the suffixes, I think it is not as easy as it might seem and you need a lot of determination to learn and not to give up, adverbial clauses of time and conjunctions are hard as well...
I have been studying (by myself) for 1 year now but it's so sad to realize that -in spite of my effort-, I have made very little progress!
Dilara.
|
|
| 16. |
05 Oct 2006 Thu 10:41 am |
|
Quoting Dilara: Well , I too think turkish grammar is very complicated but I am trying hard to learn it...although I cannot be as fluent as I'd like because I am TOO focus on making no mistakes when writing!
I think the grammar questions on the forum are VERY USEFUL and interesting but they also confuse me sometimes or when they are very "advanced" I feel turkish is so difficult and there is so much to learn, also the suffixes, I think it is not as easy as it might seem and you need a lot of determination to learn and not to give up, adverbial clauses of time and conjunctions are hard as well...
I have been studying (by myself) for 1 year now but it's so sad to realize that -in spite of my effort-, I have made very little progress!
Dilara. |
Turkish grammar can get very complicated but it can be as simple as any other languages. Try to see it in its simple and regular ways.
Here are some points to compare:
- Turkish verbs are regular. So you don't have to know what the irregular verbs are. This issue can be a nightmare with some languages (French, Italian for example). You have no chance other than memorising all the irregular verb forms tense by tense, person by person
- Turkish is consistent. In Turkish the modifier always comes before the modified. On the other hand take the following examples:
good enough (modifier after modified)
sufficently good (modifier before modified)
the running man (modifier before modified)
the man running in the park (modifier after modified)
etc.
Even weirder languages allow both, even in one sentence, simultaneously.
Comme la belle langue bizarre française!
- Turkish doesn't care about sex. So there is no "he or she" thing when we speak in general things. I know this "he or she" thing is considered to be annoying by English speakers for example.
- There is no article, there is no gender. You don't need to care about the gender of the words.
- You don't need to use the plural when it is already implied by the number
one girl -- bir kız
two girls -- iki kız
In Italian you should care about the gender as well:
una ragazza -- bir kız
due ragazze -- iki kız
due ragazzi -- iki erkek or bir erkek + bir kız
- Question sentences are constructed without changing the word order by making use of the particle "mi". You just put it after the word you want to query.
Ali Elif'i seviyor -- Ali loves Elif
Ali mi Elif'i seviyor? -- Somebody loves Elif. Is it Ali?
Ali Elif'i mi seviyor? -- Ali loves somebody. Is it Elif?
Ali Elif'i seviyor mu? -- Does Ali love Elif?
Or you can replace them with the question words without touching the word order.
Kim Elif'i seviyor? -- Who loves Elif?
Ali kimi seviyor? -- Who does Ali love?
- Turkish is free formatted language meaning you can freely re-order sentence units. You don't need to be concerned with the word order too much.
- Easy phonemic alphabet
etc.
|
|
| 17. |
10 Oct 2006 Tue 07:26 am |
|
Quoting aslan2: Quoting Dilara: Well , I too think turkish grammar is very complicated but I am trying hard to learn it...although I cannot be as fluent as I'd like because I am TOO focus on making no mistakes when writing!
I think the grammar questions on the forum are VERY USEFUL and interesting but they also confuse me sometimes or when they are very "advanced" I feel turkish is so difficult and there is so much to learn, also the suffixes, I think it is not as easy as it might seem and you need a lot of determination to learn and not to give up, adverbial clauses of time and conjunctions are hard as well...
I have been studying (by myself) for 1 year now but it's so sad to realize that -in spite of my effort-, I have made very little progress!
Dilara. |
Turkish grammar can get very complicated but it can be as simple as any other languages. Try to see it in its simple and regular ways.
Here are some points to compare:
- Turkish verbs are regular. So you don't have to know what the irregular verbs are. This issue can be a nightmare with some languages (French, Italian for example). You have no chance other than memorising all the irregular verb forms tense by tense, person by person
- Turkish is consistent. In Turkish the modifier always comes before the modified. On the other hand take the following examples:
good enough (modifier after modified)
sufficently good (modifier before modified)
the running man (modifier before modified)
the man running in the park (modifier after modified)
etc.
Even weirder languages allow both, even in one sentence, simultaneously.
Comme la belle langue bizarre française!
- Turkish doesn't care about sex. So there is no "he or she" thing when we speak in general things. I know this "he or she" thing is considered to be annoying by English speakers for example.
- There is no article, there is no gender. You don't need to care about the gender of the words.
- You don't need to use the plural when it is already implied by the number
one girl -- bir kız
two girls -- iki kız
In Italian you should care about the gender as well:
una ragazza -- bir kız
due ragazze -- iki kız
due ragazzi -- iki erkek or bir erkek + bir kız
- Question sentences are constructed without changing the word order by making use of the particle "mi". You just put it after the word you want to query.
Ali Elif'i seviyor -- Ali loves Elif
Ali mi Elif'i seviyor? -- Somebody loves Elif. Is it Ali?
Ali Elif'i mi seviyor? -- Ali loves somebody. Is it Elif?
Ali Elif'i seviyor mu? -- Does Ali love Elif?
Or you can replace them with the question words without touching the word order.
Kim Elif'i seviyor? -- Who loves Elif?
Ali kimi seviyor? -- Who does Ali love?
- Turkish is free formatted language meaning you can freely re-order sentence units. You don't need to be concerned with the word order too much.
- Easy phonemic alphabet
etc. |
Very interesting observations Aslan2! it brings me to think that turkish has many "qualities" that make its learning easier for example, there is no article or gender as you correctly poınted out ! which is a very complicated issue in my language español which causes lots of trouble to learners! still, I think türkçe zor bir dil although , when you 'assımılate ıt' ın your head everythıng ıs so logıcal ! (except conjunctıons they are another story)
Selamlar,
Dilara.
|
|
| 18. |
11 Oct 2006 Wed 04:59 pm |
|
I always remember seeing something written in one of my turkish phrase books and it said 'anyone can learn another language dont forget that when we were children we didnt sit down and learn grammer it was something that came natural to us'
|
|
| 19. |
11 Oct 2006 Wed 05:32 pm |
|
Quoting oreniyorum8: I always remember seeing something written in one of my turkish phrase books and it said 'anyone can learn another language dont forget that when we were children we didnt sit down and learn grammer it was something that came natural to us'
|
Turkish Children Learn Their Mother Tongue Earliest
A research conducted worldwide has established that Turkish children are the fastest at learning their native language.
The results were released at the International Association for the Study of Child Language’s 10th congress in Berlin, Germany, where it was indicated that Turkish children could speak their native language by the age of 2-3 years in a grammatically correct manner. Linguistics Professor Klann Delius noted that the Turkish language was easy to learn. “Suffixes in Turkish that determine person and tense are regular. Using them is like arranging Lego pieces.†According to the research, it takes 12 years for Arab speaking children, and 4-5 years for German children to acquire the grammatical mastery in their mother tongue. The congress held in Berlin is attended by about 800 linguists from around the world.
|
|
| 20. |
11 Oct 2006 Wed 05:50 pm |
|
Quoting erdinc:
Unfortunately children's books include these words as well. Therefore a children's book in English might be easy to an English learner but a children's book in Turkish is not easy for a Turkish learner.
Another big problem is that the İslamic community have their own publications and books for children. These are totally rubbish and include words that have been omited from our language 50 years ago (a long time in our standards).
I don't think a foreigner can easiliy identify a kids book written from İslamic perspective. They are trying to spread their politics on every issue. Be sure you have an educated and modern person with you while you choose any book. |
Well, Ive just come back from Turkey and I found a Turkish translation of half a dozen Hans Christian Anderson stories (which I don't think were written from an Islamic perspective!!). I am hoping these won't be too difficult for me and it will be of help that I already know the stories in English. I'll let you know! 
|
|
|
