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10.       vonnyz
176 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 05:59 pm

Hi erdinc,

Thanks for sharing. I felt I learn something new again about Turkey. So on a scale of 100%, how would you rate the % of the poor, middle, high income people in Turkey. Ok maybe not Turkey, just focus in Istanbul?

11.       ekd
322 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 06:06 pm

thanks for all the information! x

12.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 06:16 pm

This is a good question. It is also a popular discussion in Turkia. There are statistics on this issue. The main source is Devlet İstatistik Enstitüsü (The Official Institute of Statistics).

This is their offical website in English:
http://www.turkstat.gov.tr/

Here are latest figures:
http://www.die.gov.tr/english/SONIST/sonist.html

Here is "The Results of Income Distribution"
http://www.die.gov.tr/ENGLISH/SONIST/GELIR/gelir.html

Here is the latest statistics on this issue:
http://www.die.gov.tr/ENGLISH/SONIST/GELIR/k_270206.xls

They are deviding the total population to quintile (a fifth of total). The richest quintile gets %46 of national total income and the poorest gets %6.

In other words, when considering the total incomes in Turkia for a year, half of it goes to %22 of the population and the other half goes to %78.

13.       Elisa
0 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 06:27 pm

Quoting erdinc:

I can tell you why this is so. In Turkia the government doesnt bother collecting tax from income. There is of course an income tax and it is very high. I think it is %30 to %40 percent of your yearly income. The problem is that nobody pays income tax and everybody shows zero income on paper. There is no control. Only %2 of tax payers are controlled whether or not they are paying a fair tax.

Since the government doesnt like collecting tax from income they collect it in indirect ways. For instance oil prices are World's highest in Turkis because %70 of it is tax.

Mobile phone bills are incredibly high since more than half of it is tax. There is a commonication tax in for mobile phones and there is a vat of total costs. This means they are taxing taxes.

Luxury goods are taxed highly. All branded goods, sproting goods (nike, adidas etc.), fashion good, imported alcohol, imported cigarets, electronics (mp3 players, mobile phones) fall in this category.
Unfortunately because there is no income tax and there is only these indirect taxes, the poor gets poorer and the rich gets richer. There are more rich people in Turkia than you can imagine.



Coincidentally I read an article about tax in Turkey in Time Out Istanbul magazine. This is what it says:

A taxing life

"For most people the taxman is somewhere up there with the Grim Reaper in terms of popularity, and escaping the swift sweep of the scythe seems to be a favourite Turkish passtime. According to figures released by the Finance Ministry a massive 6.2 billion YTL of tax is unpaid from last year. For every 100YTL collected in tax by the government, it is estimated that 110YTL goes unpaid."

Does make you think, doesn't it..

14.       vonnyz
176 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 06:38 pm

erdinc Thanks again. Will check out the sites you mentioned.

Gosh, in my country when it comes to paying tax. No one dares to escape from it. You can get charged for not filing the income tax.

I have to call the authority and make sure the documents were sent to me so that I can fill it in. (thats the olden days, now we do e-filing. You are given a login ID and password, login, enter details and CLICK! There goes your form and of course deduction of the tax from your account) And I have to ensure that it was submitted on time.

15.       Elisa
0 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 06:41 pm

Quoting vonnyz:


Gosh, in my country when it comes to paying tax. No one dares to escape from it. You can get charged for not filing the income tax.



Same here. We all fill in our tax forms, but if you would dare to put another amount, they would still know that it is wrong. Sometimes we wonder why we take the effort to fill it in, since they know everything already anyway..

16.       christine_usa
284 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 06:42 pm

These links are very helpful, and I've pasted them into my Turkey folder bookmarks.

Throughout my visit, I was amazed at how well of many people seemed in many cities. I find it surprising that mortgages are not given by banks in turkey, and that people actually have to pay for a home or car with cash! I can't fathom how someone could come up with 100,000 USD- to buy a home, but it seems many do.

I was surprised also not to see any homeless people. In Phila, and many other cities poverty is very visible.

17.       Elisa
0 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 06:51 pm

Quoting christine_usa:

These links are very helpful, and I've pasted them into my Turkey folder bookmarks.

Throughout my visit, I was amazed at how well of many people seemed in many cities. I find it surprising that mortgages are not given by banks in turkey, and that people actually have to pay for a home or car with cash! I can't fathom how someone could come up with 100,000 USD- to buy a home, but it seems many do.

I was surprised also not to see any homeless people. In Phila, and many other cities poverty is very visible.



I think it has never been common to take a mortgage to buy sth, since the interests are/were so high.

As for not seeing poverty, I think you should look twice.. I saw a lot of wealth in Istanbul, but loads of poverty too. Beggars, people sleeping in parks (and no, it wasn't just an afternoon nap) people who are rumbling through trash cans to see if they can find anything they can sell, the "eskici" passing every morning, collecting old pots all kinds of stuff that people want to get rid off. That guy was passing by 7 days a week, I can't imagine it is the job he has been dreaming of..

18.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 06:51 pm

Greetings,
I found new figures about income levels. The biggest worker's union Türk-iş makes researches on this issue for years. They have two income limits that they keep updated.

One is "açlık sınırı" (starvation limit) and the other is
"yoksulluk sınırı" (poverty limit) of income.

According their researches %18 of the population lives under starvation limit and %37 lives under the poverty limit.
The poverty limit is 1867 YTL per family.

If they don't start collecting income tax and if they don't start setting economical law sentences to economical crimes (this is rarely the case) then the poor will get poorer by these indirect taxes.

The only thing that is relatively cheap in Turkia is bread. When I buy bread in Turkia I sometimes see people buying five or more breads. They have nothing better to eat than bread.

Many local authorities in Turkia have founded bread factories. They have hundreds of small shops all over the city where they sell cheaper bread.

Here is one example. They are the biggest in İstanbul in this field.
"established by the İstanbul Great City Municipality"
http://www.ihe.com.tr/english/default.asp

Here is one from Ankara:
http://www.ankhalkekmek.com.tr/main.asp

The poor people don't understand anything from income levels or from income tax or from indirect taxes. The only thing they understand are the price of bread. If the price is good they will again vote for the same party.

19.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 06:54 pm

Quoting vonnyz:

You can get charged for not filing the income tax.



There is no economical punishment in Turkia for economical crimes which is a very big problem. 16 year boys who were starving took a few sweets from a shop and they were sentenced more than a bussinessman who bankrupted his own bank and made the government pay billions.

20.       Chantal
587 posts
 25 Aug 2006 Fri 08:23 pm

Quoting vonnyz:

Last December was my first time in Turkey. I was quite alarmed to find out that the things there were quite expensive.



Funny that you say that Because I was there 6 weeks ago, and I thought everything was so cheap! lol

I've spend way too much money in 2 weeks, because everything was so cheap! If you try to have dinner for 2 persons here in Holland, you pay at least 35 euros, in Turkey it wasn't more than 20 - 25YTL (in the most expensive looking restaurants..).

And about the tax.. I think that this is also the reason why there are so many fake electronics, the 'real' ones are way too expensive!
A friend of mine bought a very pretty looking mp3player, but when we were looking at the backside, there was a spelling mistake somewhere, which gave it away .

Oh well.. it's a good thing that Turkey wants to join the EU, because now they have to change a lot before they will be allowed to enter! Maybe the government will open their eyes

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