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Past tense for present events
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| 10. |
22 Sep 2006 Fri 08:35 am |
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Quoting bod: In Türkçe, sometimes past tense is used to express something that is happening now! Bu biliyorum. I guess it is something that just needs accepting but I have a couple of questions.......
Is there any rule to say when past tense is used for present events?
What meaning do the present continuous and aorist tenses have (if any)
For example:
anladım - I understand (literally I understood)
But when would these be used: anlıyorum - anlarım |
Turkish past tense is also used for past perfect (actions that have just been completed). Turkish doesn't care when an action is completed. It could be just now or years ago.
Example:
Onu en son 1 yıl önce gördüm -- I last saw her 1 year ago.
Onu şimdi gördüm (also implies I still see her at this moment) -- I have just seen her.
When one says "anladım", they mean "I have (now) understood it". So "anladım" and "anlıyorum" are almost always interchangeable with the same meaning.
Sometimes, you can even use "past tense" for the actions that are about to be done.
Ben gittim -- I am leaving here very soon (consider me gone)
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| 11. |
22 Sep 2006 Fri 07:59 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix: Quoting Chrisfer: Aahh.. so, if I want to say, "I don't understand Turkish well," would I say, "Türkçe iyi anlamam"? I think I've been using anlıyorum for general understanding, and anladım for understanding specific statements, and have completely ignored the aorist tense.
Good question bod. |
If you say Türkçeden anlamam that means: "I am not inrested n Turkish" or "I don't know much about Turkish" but here, there is some apathy.
My idea is to use "Türkçeyi çok iyi anlamıyorum" or "Türkçeyi çok iyi anlayamıyorum"
That is exactly "I can understand something in Turkish but it is not very well". In the last sentence, i added "ability" form to be clear that you cannot understand. Because if you don't add it, it may mean that you don't do it even though you can (=you don't want to do it) |
So it sounds like different verbs have different connotations in different tenses, and for each verb we have to learn when to use the aorist tense, when to use present simple, and when they're interchangeable. Is this true? (Could this actually be one area where Turkish is less regular than English?)
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| 12. |
23 Sep 2006 Sat 08:01 am |
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Quoting Chrisfer: So it sounds like different verbs have different connotations in different tenses, and for each verb we have to learn when to use the aorist tense, when to use present simple, and when they're interchangeable. Is this true? (Could this actually be one area where Turkish is less regular than English?) |
Sorry, I know, sometimes I make things harder... That is in some usages, not for all. I gave the examples for some exceptions. Especially, "anlamak" is a little different.
Don't be afraid for all verbs
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| 13. |
23 Sep 2006 Sat 08:34 am |
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Quoting Chrisfer: So it sounds like different verbs have different connotations in different tenses, and for each verb we have to learn when to use the aorist tense, when to use present simple, and when they're interchangeable. Is this true? (Could this actually be one area where Turkish is less regular than English?) |
It is a relative thing. Depends on from where you are looking at it.
From the point of view of Turkish, it is an irregularity to not use the continuous tense for some verbs like below (a list to keep in mind)
(I had to check my grammar book for the list below)
1- feel, hear, see, smell, notice, observe
2- adore, appreciate, care, like, desire, detest, fear, hate, loathe, love, mind, value, want, wish
3- agree, appreciate, believe, expect, forget, know, mean, percieve, realize, recall, recognize, recollect, remember, trust, understand
4- own, owe, belong, possess
5- seem, signify, appear, contain, consist, keep, concern, matter, hold
And from the point of view of English, it is an irregularity to use continuous tense for those verbs (a list to keep in mind)
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| 14. |
23 Sep 2006 Sat 11:52 am |
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Quoting aslan2: 2- adore, appreciate, care, like, desire, detest, fear, hate, loathe, love, mind, value, want, wish |
I am not sure I understand what you are saying......
To take two examples from the list above, my understanding is that they use present continuous tense to give their general present meaning and simple past to give their past meaning:
sana tapıyorum - I adore you
sana tapdım - I adored you
seni seviyorum - I love you
seni sevdim - I loved you
This is different from anlamak where the past form (anladım) is used to describe a present situation.
Can you please explain what is special about the list of verbs and what each numbered group means?
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| 15. |
23 Sep 2006 Sat 12:02 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting aslan2: 2- adore, appreciate, care, like, desire, detest, fear, hate, loathe, love, mind, value, want, wish |
I am not sure I understand what you are saying......
To take two examples from the list above, my understanding is that they use present continuous tense to give their general present meaning and simple past to give their past meaning:
sana tapıyorum - I adore you
sana tapdım - I adored you
seni seviyorum - I love you
seni sevdim - I loved you
This is different from anlamak where the past form (anladım) is used to describe a present situation.
Can you please explain what is special about the list of verbs and what each numbered group means? |
You cannot use "be V+ing" in English when we use "-iyor" for them in Turkish.
sana tapıyorum -- I am adoring you (?)
seni seviyorum -- I am loving you (?)
senden hoşlanıyorum -- I am liking you (?)
senden nefret ediyorum -- I am hating you (?)
seni istiyorum -- I am wanting you (?)
etc.
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| 16. |
23 Sep 2006 Sat 12:08 pm |
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Teşekkürler - şimdi anladım 
Incidentally, in English some of the examples you give are occasionally used but it is rare and usually slightly poetic. For example if I am eating a particularly good meal I might make an exclamation "I am liking this food!".
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| 17. |
24 Sep 2006 Sun 01:28 am |
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Thanks, aslan2, that's what I suspected... my beginner level students were always quite baffled when I told them that we rarely use non-action verbs with -ing ("But... it's true NOW!").
I know, caliptrix... I sometimes felt down-right evil when my students finally thought they had understood something, and I had to tell them that there was yet another factor  ... and yet, we do need to know. Thank you!
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