Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Turkey

Turkey

Add reply to this discussion
Moderators: libralady, sonunda
another good articel by Elif Safak/ a very good comparison of America and Europe
(27 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
[1] 2 3
1.       kadersokak
0 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 05:53 am

Religion and Rationality


The difference between the social, cultural and intellectual heritage of the European continent and that of America has gained a special significance in today’s world.


However common their slogans are, there are those discreetly advocating the thesis that there is or will be a Clash of Civilizations between the East and West, or between Western democracy and Islam. Even though they prefer to use the generalization “Western world,” actually the “East” can not be mentioned as a single entity. Many things are lost on Turkish intellectuals and readers when they fail to distinguish that Western society is a constantly boiling heterogeneity made up of dozens of different colors and factors that while conflicting, are yet harmonious and mixed.



One of the basic differences between Europe and America lies around the topics of “religion” and “religiosity.” For many Europeans, especially the European intelligentsia, religion and religiosity are individual choices. In this case, they are assumed not to make an imprint on public spaces or seep into the state structure or ideology. Expressing it another way, religion is a personal preference completely outside the public realm. Especially when we look at Northern European writers and intellectuals, we see they have taken this assertion a few steps further: Religiosity is a modern trait. That is, it points to a body of meanings and rules that has no place in the post-modern world. Even if they don’t say this openly, many European intellectuals think that religiosity was spread in a time of modernity, but that it has seen better days to a large extent. There are two important results emerging from this approach. First, European intellectuals have a difficult time understanding immigrant groups who live in Europe, some of whom can be very religious. Just as some of these groups may belong to Muslim immigrants, the devout Catholic Polish immigrants need to be included as well. Secondly, the same European intellectuals have not only difficulty understanding the growing religiosity in their own societies, but they find it very hard to understand America as well. In comparison to Europe, America possesses a much more religious social fabric, and, most importantly, their religion is continually visible in the public sphere.


Consequently, there are two separate cultural streams flowing parallel in the Western world; occasionally in conflict and sometimes distant. On the one hand, there is Europe with its settled secular culture and state structure. While on the other, there is America with its increasingly robust Christian fundamentalist religious dialectic.


This week a “religiosity and superstitions” research report published in the British press received strong reaction. This university research, which examined why and how people gave importance to superstitions for centuries, was actually, in one sense, “an effort to rationalize the irrational.” Among the findings, functions were listed like, “born from the need to give order to chaos, lightens the individual’s feeling of loneliness, and provides easy formulas to man in difficult times.” I’m not going to debate the research findings. hat interests me is how much the research was affected by the pragmatic, positivist British tradition and how great a difference there is between this method and the method in America.


America and Europe hold two completely different approaches to the subjects of religion and religiosity, this contradiction will become even more obvious in the near future.


September 12, 2006



2.       Rain
0 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 11:47 am



Yea Let me explain.. uSa and europa said we want to brin democracy to middle east.. but they only brng trouble.. kiLL so many innocent.. Europea talkng about turkey if you wanna join us you have to follow the ruLes.. can you say to me.. in europea pple can make fun with the religion.. even pple can say fuck the religion everytng they want... but in here no 1 can dare to do it...bcz they know wht the hell ll happn ...ELIF SAFAK is a turkish...but she not said all herslf... some 1 force her to say... If america and europea go with this brain ...they ll lost a lot thngs.. but iSLam countries ll be great in future even now they are in war..We have soul...not only talkng like them...I HATE USA AND EUROPEAN Govermnt.. around the world alrdy pple dont like europea and usa.. bcoze they like to kill... nthng else..

3.       aenigma x
0 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 12:11 pm

Well, I think we are well aware of your hatred towards us, thank you Rain. You are generalising about everything. There are many devoutly religious people in Europe and USA. Also, while I am the FIRST to condemn the actions of our Governments over Iraq and Afghanistan, I do not accept that WE are the only countries to cause war, and kill.

If your attitude is common, then God help us all. People are people Rain, we are all just people and we are all different. Dont judge countries as a whole.

4.       Rain
0 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 12:23 pm



No i stil saying all europea and usa... whn the time israil start to war with lebonon so 2.000 innocent die where is europea? coz Usa shut their mouth thts why they cnt talk anytng..europea jst dog fo usa...expclly ENGLAND( like Blair) people dunno anytng about muslim countries but they like to talk full of shit why? muslim women like to cover head...but fo europea fo usa they are terorist ..oh come on all is bullshit...Denmark they make fun with our prophet.. and later they said why muslim are getting crzy we also make fun with ourreligion is easy... Look people brain..

5.       aenigma x
0 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 12:31 pm

But its ok for Muslims to burn an effigy of the Pope eh?
No, I will not enter into this discussion. I think Islam is a beautiful religion and I respect all religions and people, and judge them individually. I wont be drawn to argue with you anymore.

6.       aenigma x
0 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 12:36 pm

Do you not realise we have a LARGE population of Muslims in the UK. They are also represented by Tony Blair. That is democracy, for better of worse. You judge us ALL?

7.       Rain
0 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 12:39 pm

why u getting crzy whn u hear the real thng? yes isLam is the most good religion in the world.. i nt saying bad about other religion coz we are nt the pple like yourcountry pple.. we know how to respct we know how to behave... you only talkng but cant show me anytng.. i saying myopinion ...u saying uropinion... no 1 fightng.. but u runng why u know coz u only see from tv chnell u never see pple die infornt of you... you only know how to sleep how to eat how to enjoy.. this is yourlife.. go iraq see pple cnt find water to drink but u so good can sleep well.. thts why i m saying you talkng bullshit.. jst learn smtng bfre talk...

8.       aenigma x
0 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 12:42 pm

How dare you judge me? I have already told you I do not agree with what is happening in Iraq. I also was shocked yesterday when many innocent women were killed by THEIR OWN PEOPLE while queuing for oil for Ramadan, just as I am shocked by all the killing there. I do not agree with USA and UK either. I respect ALL religion and I respect all people and judge them only on their OWN actions. I will not discuss this further with such a narrow minded person, and also am fully aware that this discussion is against the rules of Turkish Class.

9.       Rain
0 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 12:45 pm

ta ta lady... I wish u and like yours... ll learn smtng real fo life.. nt tht sht.. if you wanna say idiot fo me nevermnd,.. you guys only know how to talk...

10.       ismitta
20 posts
 24 Sep 2006 Sun 04:41 pm

If being religious means spitting with hatred on other people then THANK YOU - no rituals in the name of Yahve or Allah for me!!!! I wonder what the One and Only Almighty and Forgiving would say about all that if she/he/it could speak. Read some Rumi or any other mistics - bring some love into your life RAIN! And if you believe in your God - trust your God - with your or without your help his/her/its plans will be caried on And you should trust that America, Europe, Israel, Turkey - all are in this plan. Unless,... there's no plan and no god needs no one to carry it on - then we are left as we are - some of us full of hatred others trying to share LOVE!!!

(27 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
[1] 2 3
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
Why yer gördüm but yeri geziyorum
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much, makes perfect sense!
Etmeyi vs etmek
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much!
Görülmez vs görünmiyor
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much, very well explained!
Içeri and içeriye
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much for the detailed ...
Present continous tense
HaydiDeer: Got it, thank you!
Hic vs herhangi, degil vs yok
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much!
Rize Artvin Airport Transfer - Rize Tours
rizetours: Dear Guest; In order to make your Black Sea trip more enjoyable, our c...
What does \"kabul ettiğini\" mean?
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much for the detailed ...
Kimse vs biri (anyone)
HaydiDeer: Thank you!
Random Pictures of Turkey
Most liked