Iraqi reporter Al-Zaidi is in prison, for throwing his shoes at Bush, in a press conference."

Here is a little note I received from an Iraqi friend.

 

"Urgent, just reported: Al-Zaidi in U.S. run Camp Cropper prison
Iraqi TV al-Sharqiya just reported on the news that AL-Zaidi is transferred to Camp Cropper prison [the Airport prison, managed by the American forces].
The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

http://www.kroma.no/2008/bushgame/  Nisan alin ...Ates!

 

http://www.planetda n.net/pics/ misc/georgie. htm  Bush dusmekten kurtulunca mouse ile yardim etmeniz yeter...

 

Tortured; very American...

Iraqi reporter Al-Zaidi is in prison, for throwing his shoes at Bush, in a press conference."

Here is a little note I received from an Iraqi friend.

 

"Urgent, just reported: Al-Zaidi in U.S. run Camp Cropper prison
Iraqi TV al-Sharqiya just reported on the news that AL-Zaidi is transferred to Camp Cropper prison [the Airport prison, managed by the American forces].
The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

 He should think himself lucky!!! He would be dead if this happened in some other countries (which I won´t name!!!).

 

Still, it was a bad attempt anyway, he should have used a wooden clog

 He should think himself lucky!!! He would be dead if this happened in some other countries (which I won´t name!!!).

 

+ 1 

didn`t I say he would get a free ticket to guantanamo?

 

I agree that this is very american, and very predictable.

Did he ?

Ý heard he got 10 yrs in jail or something

 they are all american prisons.

Yes, the Iraqis ARE known for their trustworthy accounts of what has happened to their own people when held prisoner, aren´t they? I mean, the Iraqis, and Arabs in general, certainly are a trustworthy lot aren´t they? I believed every word they said when I lived in the Middle East. (Insert sarcasm here.)

 

I guess his brilliant move of throwing a shoe at the most powerful man in the world, and I´m not saying that I think Bush should be given that label, doesn´t deserve to be punished, does it? He should just be made to sit down, right? (Insert more sarcasm here.)

 

Does anyone really believe that after the horrible accounts of what happened at Quantanimo and Abu Grey (not sure of that spelling) that Americans would subject themselves to that kind of criticism again by torturing some unimportant Iraqi idiot who threw his shoe at Bush? He really thinks that throwing a shoe will change Bush´s mind about anything and that it will really make a point and express the opinions of the Iraqi people?

 

The Iraqi who sent this account of what happened to that man obviously thinks so highly of himself that he thinks American soldiers and government officials have nothing better to do than waste their time torturing an idiot who threw a shoe, and as a result, ruined his own life. And for what? Not a damn thing. Did he really think he would accomplish something? Hold your emotions in check, buddy.

 

And how does this Iraqi guy who sent the account of torture know? Does he know the guy personally? Does he work at that particular prison? Has he seen the guy after he was tortured? How would he know? From the reliable news reports in Iraq? Right.

 

Why is this even being debated on this site? The accounts of torture on this man are all hearsay. No one knows the truth except the man who threw the shoe, and he is an idiot. This is just another opportunity to bash America.

 

America isn´t even 300 years old yet and it is the most powerful country in the world. That´s why people hate America. Americans don´t always agree with everything their government does, but people generalize and hate all Americans anyway. But it is still the most powerful country in the world, and no one wants to admit that is the real reason they hate America and Americans.

Good comeback tami. Way to hurt me. Anybody got some tissue so I can wipe my tears?

you sound just like a bigoted American nationalist who can`t even see the barbaric crime the Americans have been carrying out in Iraq, so I don`t think it`s worth to argue with you.

And I saw how wonderful the middle east was to their friendly neighbor Iraq when Saddam was killing his own people......where were you guys then?

when Saddam and his beloved ally America was killing the Kurds in Halepje, Turkey was the only country who accepted 500,000 of Kurds into the country from Iraq. where were you Americans(who are the great allies of Kurds now) back then?

You mean the same Kurds you have been hunting down in the mountains for years now....I have a difficult time believing that.

For the record, tami, I am not American. And, I have lived in three different countries and traveled extensively in the Middle East, albeit in no war torn areas, except for Israel and Palestine. I do not view Turkey as the Middle East, nor do I view it as Europe. Turkey is neither. It is a truly unique country.

 

America has never been allies with Sadam Hussain. America is damned if it does, and damned if it doesn´t. America left Saddam alone for a while because the Iraqis wanted them to, but they were never allies with that man. America is allies, however, with Turkey and the American government has no problem with Kurds, but like many other countries, they do have a problem with the Kurds who are trying to kill Turks in order to claim southeast Turkey as its own land and own country basically. Do you have a problem with the PKK tami?

 

How many Middle Eastern countries have asked America to help resolve the situation in the Middle East and bring peace to that region? Queen Rania of Jordan went to America personally to ask them to help. America is truly damned if it does and damned if it doesn´t. Tami, you ask where was America when Saddam was killing the Kurdish people of Iraq? I think you should be asking, why was Saddam killing the Kurdish people of Iraq? You make America out to be the bad guy in that situation. You say Turkey is the good guy for accepting all those Kurdish refugees into Turkey. How does Turkey treat those Kurds now? What opinion do the Turkish people have now of those same Kurdish refugees? I´ve seen discrimination of Kurds in Turkey, and I have only been there twice!

 

Tami, you sound like a racist Turkish nationalist who is willing to believe whatever he hears, unless he disagrees with it.

  Prove me wrong. 

 And I saw how wonderful the middle east was to their friendly neighbor Iraq when Saddam was killing his own people......where were you guys then? 

Canlý, you´ve been busy since I last signed off.  You said two things about America that I find very interesting.  You seem to think Americans want to take over and control Iraq. They are actually trying to teach the Iraqi army how to take control of their own country so they can get out of there! If the Iraqi government and army can´t control their own country and eliminate the terrorists cells within their own borders, no country will be safe unless it is an ally of Iraq. Can you name one ally of that country?  One ally that is sane, stable, productive, and takes care of its people? 

 

You also said that when Saddam started killing his own people, Americans decided to go in and kill the rest. What?  The American army went in to eliminate the terrorists cells in Iraq and Afganistan, not to kill Iraqis.   Yes, they´ve killed some civilians. That happens in war.  Every country who has ever fought in a war has killed innocent people. Every country.  So why are Americans the only ones who are criticized for it?  What about the terrorists who purposefully put civilians in places they know are being targeted by US and UK military, and they leave them there to be blown to bits?  This has happened, and it is public knowledge.  You might even find it on wikipedia.  The problem with wiki is that ANYONE can modify and edit the information, so it is not a credible or reputable source of information.  Take it with a grain of salt.

 

How many innocent people have died at the hands of terrorists?  Does anybody even know?  They will not stop until they kill everyone they don´t like, no matter what the reason.  Do you agree they need to be stopped?  What is so wrong with America, the UK, and European troops trying to stop terrorist groups from being successful? Can you honestly say that if America and Europe just went home and left Iraq and Afganistan and Pakistan to do whatever they wanted that you would feel safe?  Maybe you would since you live in a Muslim country, but most Turks do not sympathize with terrorists and do not agree with violence toward other religions. Turkey is a fairly liberal country and the Muslim extremists don´t like that about Turkey.  Istanbul has been the victim of many terrorists attacks, one when I was there the first time. It will only get worse if someone doesn´t stop the terrorist cells, yet everyone criticizes the people who are trying to do so.  If other countries don´t like the fact that American and Europe are trying to stop terrorism so the rest of the world can be safe, then let´s send some Turkish soldiers in there to do it.  Turkey has been a target more than once, and they are fighting their own battles with the PKK in the east. Turkey knows how it feels to be a target.  Why don´t they fight back?  I´m not saying this as a criticism as I love Turkey and hope to live there one day.  I´m just creating an example and asking a question.

 

I´m not trying to argue or offend anyone. I do like a good debate on this subject though and today has been quite interesting.  I haven´t heard one thing to make me change my mind on anything. 

I Need a Job
  
I will be available in January 2009, and I am willing to
relocate.
  

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520
  

 

  LAW ENFORCEMENT:

I was arrested in Kennebunkport , Maine , in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I plead guilty, paid a fine,and had my driver´s license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving recordhas been ´lost´ and is not available.
 
   MILITARY:

 I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my druguse. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam
  .
   EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:

 I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader. .
 
   PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

 - I ran for U.S. Congress and lost.
 - I began my career in the oil business in Midland ,Texas , in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn´t find any oil inTexas . The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
 - I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in asweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. 
-  With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas .
 
  ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS :

- I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies,making Texas the most polluted state in the Union .
-  During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America .
-  I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to thetune of billions in borrowed money.
-  I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.
-  With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida ,and my father´s appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President of the United States , after losing by over 500,000 votes.
 
   ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

-  I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
-  I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.
-  I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the  U.S. Treasury.
-  I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.
-  I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
-  I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.  I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.
-  In my first year in office, over 2 million American s lost their jobs and that trend continues.
-  I´m proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of anyadministration in U.S. history. My ´poorest millionaire, ´Condoleezza Rice,has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.
-  I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. - - - My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay,  presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. history, Enron.
- My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys  to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election  decision.
-  I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution.
-  More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.
-  I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.
-  I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.
-  I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
-  I appointed more convicted criminals to my administration than any President in U.S. history.
-  I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States Government.
-  I´ve broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.
-  I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
- I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
- I refused to allow inspector´s access to U.S. ´prisoners of war´ detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
-  I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US election).
-  I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.
-  I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.
-  After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the  worst security failure in U.S. history.
-  I garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the World Trade  Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.
-  I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.
-  I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, preemptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.
-  I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut  in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime.
-  In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.
-  I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.
-  I am supporting development of a nuclear ´Tactical Bunker Buster,´ a  WMD.
-  I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.

  RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

-  All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father´s library, sealed and unavailable for public view.
-  All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
-  All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President attended, regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.
-  I specified that my sealed documents will not be available for 50 years.

marylyons thinks Al-Zaidi is an idiot. She loves Bush and calls him the most powerful man on eartH

Well ! I doubt that very much. Here is Mr.Bush´s CV. Read and decide who is the real fool.

 

__._,_.___

Canlý, you´ve been busy since I last signed off.  You said two things about America that I find very interesting.  You seem to think Americans want to take over and control Iraq. They are actually trying to teach the Iraqi army how to take control of their own country so they can get out of there! If the Iraqi government and army can´t control their own country and eliminate the terrorists cells within their own borders, no country will be safe unless it is an ally of Iraq. Can you name one ally of that country?  One ally that is sane, stable, productive, and takes care of its people? 

 

You also said that when Saddam started killing his own people, Americans decided to go in and kill the rest. What?  The American army went in to eliminate the terrorists cells in Iraq and Afganistan, not to kill Iraqis.   Yes, they´ve killed some civilians. That happens in war.  Every country who has ever fought in a war has killed innocent people. Every country.  So why are Americans the only ones who are criticized for it?  What about the terrorists who purposefully put civilians in places they know are being targeted by US and UK military, and they leave them there to be blown to bits?  This has happened, and it is public knowledge.  You might even find it on wikipedia.  The problem with wiki is that ANYONE can modify and edit the information, so it is not a credible or reputable source of information.  Take it with a grain of salt.

 

How many innocent people have died at the hands of terrorists?  Does anybody even know?  They will not stop until they kill everyone they don´t like, no matter what the reason.  Do you agree they need to be stopped?  What is so wrong with America, the UK, and European troops trying to stop terrorist groups from being successful? Can you honestly say that if America and Europe just went home and left Iraq and Afganistan and Pakistan to do whatever they wanted that you would feel safe?  Maybe you would since you live in a Muslim country, but most Turks do not sympathize with terrorists and do not agree with violence toward other religions. Turkey is a fairly liberal country and the Muslim extremists don´t like that about Turkey.  Istanbul has been the victim of many terrorists attacks, one when I was there the first time. It will only get worse if someone doesn´t stop the terrorist cells, yet everyone criticizes the people who are trying to do so.  If other countries don´t like the fact that American and Europe are trying to stop terrorism so the rest of the world can be safe, then let´s send some Turkish soldiers in there to do it.  Turkey has been a target more than once, and they are fighting their own battles with the PKK in the east. Turkey knows how it feels to be a target.  Why don´t they fight back?  I´m not saying this as a criticism as I love Turkey and hope to live there one day.  I´m just creating an example and asking a question.

 

I´m not trying to argue or offend anyone. I do like a good debate on this subject though and today has been quite interesting.  I haven´t heard one thing to make me change my mind on anything. 

I disagree with lots of things that the American government has done, but that doesn´t mean that all of America is bad.  George Bush doesn´t run the country by himself, and there are a lot of people who disagree with many of his actions.

You need to reread my posts.  I did not claim to love George Bush.  In fact, I think he is an idiot.  I did not claim he is the most powerful man in the world. I did not say I believe Bush is the  most powerful man in the world.  I don´t remember my exact words but I believe I said that I did not necessarily believe he should have that label, but that label has been given to him as a result of him being the leader (unfortunately) of the most powerful country in the world. 

 

His driving record couldn´t have been too lost.  You found it.

 

Where did you find this? The fact that stuff like this is posted on the Internet and that people take time to find it just gives the man more power, right?  I´ve never Googled "George W. Bush" and never will.  I don´t have the interest or the time to waste. I also did not read this information. Like the information posted in most Middle Eastern newspapers, it is probably not accurate.

 

My posts are not about George W. Bush.  My posts are about America.  People refuse to look at both sides of the story.  I disagree with lots of things that the American government has done, but that doesn´t mean that all of America is bad.  George Bush doesn´t run the country by himself, and there are a lot of people who disagree with many of his actions.

 

AlphaF, you are a fool if you believe this information about George Bush. Not because it is or isn´t true, because I don´t know if it is or isn´t.  But if you read this and think YOU know, and then you base your opinions of an entire country on this information, which was probably posted as a joke on the Internet, then you are the fool. 

 Just ignore AlphaF...he has come out of exile recently and is a little disillusioned at the moment.

 Just ignore Teaschip - she has been a little disillusioned ever since she voted for Bush... twice!

Just ignore George W. Bush, he´s no longer president

Offf, I´m so glad you posted that, for a brief moment I thought you´d post "Just ignore Daydreamer, she does not have The before her nick"

 Unfortunately for you, the power of the US is on a downward slide now.  The king is dead, long live the king.

 

(PS.  A lot of people who disagree with many of his actions?  Be specific please.  How many Iraqis died before the general public in the US came to this decision?)  I notice even Teaschip, who used to defend Bush like a mother defends her baby, has recently been backing down...

Along with your Queen...  Please tell me when I defended or ever praised Bush here.  I think people love to read between the lines and come with assumtions on their own.    For the record...I think he has made some great decisions during his presidency and some terrible ones...

 Just ignore Teaschip - she has been a little disillusioned ever since she voted for Bush... twice!

 Well it is true....you are soooooooo last year darling

 Just ignore the loud mouth brit who craves attention here....

 a baby to look after...  

 TheBaby

My posts are not about George W. Bush.  My posts are about America.  People refuse to look at both sides of the story.  I disagree with lots of things that the American government has done, but that doesn´t mean that all of America is bad.  George Bush doesn´t run the country by himself, and there are a lot of people who disagree with many of his actions.

I think we´re all right and wrong in some aspects. I have been against the war from the start based on what my perception of it is, but despite that I´m allowing the possibility that there might have been intelligence and information I wouldn´t have access to that would have made the decision to go to war more understandable.

 

And TheAenigma, since you want to know who was against the war. Why don´t you google anti-Iraq war protests (over 260 thousand hits) or Americans against war in Iraq (over 400 thousand hits).  

 Will TheBaby be joining TC soon?

 Unfortunately for you, the power of the US is on a downward slide now.  The king is dead, long live the king.

 

(PS.  A lot of people who disagree with many of his actions?  Be specific please.  How many Iraqis died before the general public in the US came to this decision?)  I notice even Teaschip, who used to defend Bush like a mother defends her baby, has recently been backing down...

(1) Just out of interest, name ONE of the "rights" for invading Iraq.  I am not asking much eh?

 

(2) 260 thousand???? 400 thousand???  Out of YOUR population?  Disgusting!

Melek74, I agree.  That is exactly what I mean by both sides of the story. 

 

TheAenigma, did you smile on 9/11 when the second plane hit the WTC and everyone with a brain realized this was no accident?  Some people did. Some people felt that Americans deserved it.  Do you?

1) I don´t know of any "rights" for invading Iraq, like I made clear in several posts of mine I have been against the war in Iraq from the beginning. What I was saying is that my opinion is based on my perception and it may not be based on compelte information. And so is your, you don´t have access to intelligence and the same information that your Prime Minister would, so I don´t think you´re as informed about it as you´d like to think you are.

2) The number refers to the number of "hits" not people. It would indeed be disgusting if it was just people. If you look at polls, the opinions have been split more or less down the middle, so that brings the numbers up to 150 million of people who don´t agree with the decision to go to war. I´m not going to ask you how many people are against the war in YOUR population, I don´t care and I don´t think it matters. I think everybody should be against killing other people and in any case your opinon or mine does not matter to the person who´s going to send the troops over.

Of course I didn´t smile...but please tell me what 9/11 has to do with the invasion of Iraq?

 

I am interested

 You generalize TheAenigma.  That´s Theproblem! Generalization! Bush started the war after he was elected.  I cannot explain why the American people elected him AGAIN, but he started the war in Iraq after he was elected.  He started it right after 9/11.  You better believe the American people thought something should be done.  Americans are not just going to sit on their ass and do nothing, and I don´t blame them. So he didn´t exactly do the right thing, but troops were sent to Afganistan too, and don´t tell me Afganistan didn´t ask for it.

 

So the power of the US is on a downward slide. Fine. Then somebody else better pick up the slack, and we all know who it won´t be and who it will be.  The UK is 2nd in command, and if America isn´t the most powerful country in the world, Britian will be.  There is a reason for that. Democracy, freedom of speech, a secular government, freedom of speech, and democracy. Oh, and did I mention freedom of speech and secular government? No many countries have both, even if they claim they do.

 

Teaschip, thanks for the support.  It is nice to chat with someone else who can finally see both sides.

 Of course I didn´t smile...but please tell me what 9/11 has to do with the invasion of Iraq?

 

I am interested

 Really?  You seem to know so much.  I won´t claim to KNOW but here is my PERCEPTION. 

 

After 9/11, America felt vulnerable, of course.  There had been no attacks on American soil since Pearl Harbor, and before that, no battle in America since the Civil War.  So America started looking for the culprits so they could go kick their asses.  I say again, does anyone blame them?  I think that´s the reaction that was expected by those terrorists. They wanted America to feel vulnerable. 

 

So in the search to find the culprit, bin Laden came to the forefront of course. But he didn´t act alone obviously, so America targeted Afganistan and anyone with ties to Afganistan.  Need I say more?

 

Again, this is just my very basic, I´m-not-an-attorney-or-government-official understanding of it all.  Perhaps the American government sees their mistake now, but the war in Iraq, like I´ve said before, has turned into something different now than when it first began.

People fail to forget that U.S. troops found thousands of boxes of powder and manuals in Baghdad which is used to make chemical warfare.  Although they found no weapons of mass destruction...they found substances (yellow cake) needed to make these.  Hmm, wonder what Saddam was going to do with these?  I guess we should have sat back and just waited to see. 

 Since when did the US consider themselves to be World Police?  Shall we invade the US and see what weapons they have?

 

As Saddam was put in power by the US, I am sure they provided most of that stuff too

somewhat tiring actually. zzzzzzz

Finally something i can agree with....its tiring !

 

But i cant afford to zzzzzzzz as you do,its luxry for us,as long as you ´US´ still here in the area,one must watch for his back

If you don´t know of any right reason to invade Iraq, what are you defending?  Of course we are given the same information as you...that there were "weapons of mass distruction" of which they had no evidence, and which has since been proved completely false.  I don´t see your point.  With regard to Blair, he felt "obliged" to join the US invasion, despite very strong opposition from his own cabinet, government and the public...and now realises it was his downfall.

 

Strange - these are the same people who voted Bush back into power with a majority at the previous election to this

 

Actually OUR opinion does matter - it is what democracy is all about or should I say SUPPOSED TO BE about.

 I´m watching you Canli....

 That line has been used over and over again...somewhat tiring actually. zzzzzzz

Who says I was defending anything? I was agreeing in my post with the perception that people have a tendency to only look at one side of a debate while ignoring or failing to accept as valid arguments that speak for the other side. And the point I was making is the our perceptions are never the whole truth because we don´t have access to the whole truth and because what we know is manipulated by our governments and the media. We´re all wise when we look back at history and events, but we don´t have that luxury when we´re involved in them. As an example, I voted for Bush in 2000 - one of the things I regret, however at that time I had no idea that war was to come. I also had no idea that Al Qaeda exists. Call it ignorance or being naive, I don´t care. But my decision to vote for Bush was obviously not based on being fully informed and definitely I wasn´t (and I am still not) politically saavy enough to have been able to predict the possibility of a war. I voted against Bush the second time around, and lost. I´m not afraid to admit that there are things I don´t know or don´t understand and that I was wrong in some of my decision making. And I resent when people assume to have the monopoly on truth (only trouble comes out of that).

 

As far as democracy. Maybe I´m cynical, but to me it´s an illusion that people on the top feed us, the peanuts. The power is in the hands of "haves" - we´re "have-nots" - and as long as we buy into what they tell us, they´re happy. Maybe it´s de jure democracy, de facto plutocracy or oligarchy - one of those fancy words. As you could see in your own country - Blair decided to join the Coalition AGAINST the popular opinion. So forgive me if I keep thinking that the opinions of individual citizens are not all that important to those on top.

 

 You generalize TheAenigma.  That´s Theproblem! Generalization! Bush started the war after he was elected.  I cannot explain why the American people elected him AGAIN, but he started the war in Iraq after he was elected.  He started it right after 9/11.  You better believe the American people thought something should be done.  Americans are not just going to sit on their ass and do nothing, and I don´t blame them. So he didn´t exactly do the right thing, but troops were sent to Afganistan too, and don´t tell me Afganistan didn´t ask for it.

 

So the power of the US is on a downward slide. Fine. Then somebody else better pick up the slack, and we all know who it won´t be and who it will be.  The UK is 2nd in command, and if America isn´t the most powerful country in the world, Britian will be.  There is a reason for that. Democracy, freedom of speech, a secular government, freedom of speech, and democracy. Oh, and did I mention freedom of speech and secular government? No many countries have both, even if they claim they do.

 

Teaschip, thanks for the support.  It is nice to chat with someone else who can finally see both sides.

 The fact of the matter is the groundwork for the invasion of Iraq was laid down in the Project for a New American Century in the mid 90´s...Take a look at the signatures ....Rumsfield, Cheney and many of the most influential members of the Bush administration.

 

As to the American people electing him again. He was NEVER elected.   There is ample evidence of massive fraud and voter supression of the 2004 vote. Kenneth Blackwell promised to deliver the vote, and it certainly appears he did. Add to that various electronic vote methods....and the 2004 election hardly looks to be without suspicion.

 

Free speech zones? Wasn´t the whole country supposed to be a free speech zone?

 

Need I say anything about your comment, "So the power of the US is on a downward slide. Fine. Then somebody else better pick up the slack,....." ??? Just what is your point? When was it acceptable to be a policeman to the world of soverign countries? Don´t you understand what soverign means?

 

As for secular government...there has been massive effort to undermine that with the Republicans as of late. Why on earth was Obama forced to claim he´s a Christian? How about all of Bush´s "Faith Based" funding? Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell got massive amounts of money from it....secular? 

Great post Alameda

Yes I was going to comment about the election and the boasts of "democracy" myself, but you did it sooo much better

 Thank you my dear...we agree on the more important issues. BTW there were at least 400,000 at the demonstrations in San Francisco...I know, I was there.

 

BTW I edited my earlier post to add:

 

" Just what is your point? When was it acceptable to be a policeman to the world of soverign

countries? Don´t you understand what soverign means? We have more than enough issues at home to deal with."

People fail to forget that U.S. troops found thousands of boxes of powder and manuals in Baghdad which is used to make chemical warfare.  Although they found no weapons of mass destruction...they found substances (yellow cake) needed to make these.  Hmm, wonder what Saddam was going to do with these?  I guess we should have sat back and just waited to see. 

Thank you my dear...we agree on the more important issues. BTW there were at least 400,000 at the demonstrations in San Francisco...I know, I was there.

 

 

I was JUST reading about the Russians proposing a bill to treat criticism of the Russian government as treason. So, in comparison ...

 The fact of the matter is the groundwork for the invasion of Iraq was laid down in the Project for a New American Century in the mid 90´s...Take a look at the signatures ....Rumsfield, Cheney and many of the most influential members of the Bush administration.

 

As to the American people electing him again. He was NEVER elected.   There is ample evidence of massive fraud and voter supression of the 2004 vote. Kenneth Blackwell promised to deliver the vote, and it certainly appears he did. Add to that various electronic vote methods....and the 2004 election hardly looks to be without suspicion.

 

Free speech zones? Wasn´t the whole country supposed to be a free speech zone?

 

Need I say anything about your comment, "So the power of the US is on a downward slide. Fine. Then somebody else better pick up the slack,....." ??? Just what is your point? When was it acceptable to be a policeman to the world of soverign countries? Don´t you understand what soverign means? We have more than enough issues at home to deal with.

 

As for secular government...there has been massive effort to undermine that with the Republicans as of late. Why on earth was Obama forced to claim he´s a Christian? How about all of Bush´s "Faith Based" funding? Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell got massive amounts of money from it....secular? 

 They DID NOT find any yellow cake. Where on earth do you get your information?

 

CA is where it´s at! I was living in FL back then - we f* up everything

 

On the other hand, it´s not all THAT bad. I was JUST reading about the Russians proposing a bill to treat criticism of the Russian government as treason. At least we can talk about how "bad" we have it.

Ermm sorry to interupt your argument but I wondered if you might be interested in helping us with TC Forum Peace Day? .....

 It´s not today is it?  If it´s today, I can´t do it..  But maybe another day.

 Alameda I´m starting to think you don´t live her in the U.S....obviously you only research sites and listen to your own biased media.  Here is one of many proofs that the U.S did find yellow cake in Iraq...just type in the word Canada and yellow cake.. happy reading.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/07/20087813165610303.html

 Have you ever seen a thread in a knit start to unravel? If you don´t check it right away, the whole thing will unravel.....and as to talking about how bad we have it......unless one does extensive research, they will be very uninformed. The reportage of the corporate profit based media does not present much of a "fair and balanced" news. News has become entertainment.

 OK teaschip...however did you read this:

 

"Yellow cake uranium is not strong enough to power an electricity station or nuclear weapon until it is re-processed and enriched."

 

The fact of the matter is that after 12 years of sanctions, weapons inspections, no fly zones, Iraq was hardly in any position to present any serious danger to the US.

 

CA is where it´s at! I was living in FL back then - we f* up everything

 

  here you go, one of the example of politness

 Glad you pointed that out Alameda "enich" is the key word here.  What do you think Saddam was planning on doing baking a cake with it.  Not to mention they also found white powder that is used for chemical weapons....let me remind you a nerve gas in which he killed his own people with.  If you believe that this evil man was not going to hurt anyone other than his own people...well I beg to differ.

 If you believe that this evil man was not going to hurt anyone other than his own people...well I beg to differ.

Agreed. Question is, who has the time and energy or is motivated enough to do the extensive research? So much easier to just turn on the news (hopefully something other than Fox) and be spoon fed what´s on the menu. It´s sad, by my favorite "news" program is actually The Daily Show.

 wow, teas, you´ve got a degree in chemistry?

 Our media...what media?  Sarah Palin´s church got burned down...did you hear about that?  No, it´s not breaking news...but my god if it was Jeremiah Wrights church ....we would be accused of hate crimes and riots in the street and I´m sure it would be plastered all over the media.  I would rather watch reality shows than listen to our biased media...

Not in the mood canim?  

The official one is on 21st December and the TC one is on 30th December

Feel free to do both if you want

 I just checked the calendar and the 21st is on a Sunday....can´t do it on a holy day.  But December 30th may work.  I need some peace......

 The fact of the matter is the groundwork for the invasion of Iraq was laid down in the Project for a New American Century in the mid 90´s...Take a look at the signatures ....Rumsfield, Cheney and many of the most influential members of the Bush administration.

 

As to the American people electing him again. He was NEVER elected.   There is ample evidence of massive fraud and voter supression of the 2004 vote. Kenneth Blackwell promised to deliver the vote, and it certainly appears he did. Add to that various electronic vote methods....and the 2004 election hardly looks to be without suspicion.

 

Free speech zones? Wasn´t the whole country supposed to be a free speech zone?

 

Need I say anything about your comment, "So the power of the US is on a downward slide. Fine. Then somebody else better pick up the slack,....." ??? Just what is your point? When was it acceptable to be a policeman to the world of soverign countries? Don´t you understand what soverign means? We have more than enough issues at home to deal with.

 

As for secular government...there has been massive effort to undermine that with the Republicans as of late. Why on earth was Obama forced to claim he´s a Christian? How about all of Bush´s "Faith Based" funding? Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell got massive amounts of money from it....secular? 

 You never have the Big "O" on Sunday? 

  lollllllllllll

Ý wonder if we can ask admin to put a sign on the site main page..Not allowed under 18 till 31th of December ?

 Well with some of the arguments, name calling and insults flying around here it might be a good idea ALL the time.

 lol well i agree

But then we would miss doudi really with her comments

So...mmm ok,let´s sneak it every now an then without the sign lol

 Maybe admin can set up a children´s section. That way we could pop in and see her when we want.

 Maybe admin can set up a children´s section. That way we could pop in and see her when we want.

 I´m jsut tr yingt oimagien her raection hwens he raeds thsi! 

 Or what if he made it the other way around,section for us who are more than 18...and we get there with our special ÝD...a secret word only we knew..

 Maybe admin can set up a children´s section. That way we could pop in and see her when we want.

 Or what if he made it the other way around,section for us who are more than 18...and we get there with our special ÝD...a secret word only we knew..and let the children out in the play ground so we can have an eye on them

Ýf we made a section for them,they will always try to leave claming ...

´ Heyyyy,im not a child ,im old enough ´thing

 Wouldn´t it just be easier to sell her to the circus?

 Wouldn´t it just be easier to sell her to the circus?

 I wonder how much we could get for her?  Enough for more tequila?

 I wonder how much we could get for her?  Enough for more tequila?

 It is certainly worth having a go on e-bay - we need extra supplies for the Christmas Party

 Selling children in TLC !

Ý warn you...its not allowed,and its even forbidden to think about and....!

And its a warning,i will skip it this time,but next time will be dealing with TLC high authorities !

Sorry but - even without discussing it in pm - I have to agree with Canli here and draw the line at selling children.  Your own (if you have them) maybe - but a definite no-no to other people´s

Sorry but - even without discussing it in pm - I have to agree with Canli here and draw the line at selling children.  Your own (if you have them) maybe - but a definite no-no to other people´s

 What about renting them?  Is that allowed?

I am now taking opening bids on SuiGeneris!  Bids begin at $100.  Who would like to open? 

 Would you rent Doudi??  I swear!! She would drive you crazy!!!  (bless her )

I am now taking opening bids on SuiGeneris!  Bids begin at $100.  Who would like to open? 

 I´ll give you $1!!!!!!!!

 Is this for stripping at the Translation Lounge Party?    I´m a bit lost here - he´s not a child is he???

 LIR, please keep up.  You told us we can´t sell children so we are now selling Sui! 

Sorry but - even without discussing it in pm - I have to agree with Canli here and draw the line at selling children.  Your own (if you have them) maybe - but a definite no-no to other people´s

 Is this for stripping at the Translation Lounge Party?   

 Ã agree with LÝR,you can sell your own if you have,´ you will be excused´ but other people´s !

Definitely NOT!

 

Ehmmmm,LÝR,i believe we have this in the rules...yes ?

 Nooooooooooooooooooo!!! Not me.....but I was thinking of renting her to others instead of selling her.  I am now going with plan B

 We´ve moved on Canli.  We no longer have plans to sell Doudi....at least right now.  We are auctioning off Sui.

 I only want ones that look good in this uniform (not sure about the one on the left though )

 

 I´m not sure this is a good idea.  These guys boobs are bigger than some girls in the lounge and they might get a bit jealous of that. 

 We´ve moved on Canli.  We no longer have plans to sell Doudi....at least right now.  We are auctioning off Sui.

 Ohhhh,sry...didnt notice...but can we do that ?!

 

Ý need to talk with LÝR about it!

 These then?

 

 

 I am sure you could make a few amendments to the rules

 

1. Multiple registrations are prohibited and are grounds for immediate account deletion.

2. Vulgar, obscene or sexual screen names are not allowed.

3. Members may be auctioned off to the highest bidder at any time.

 Ehmmmm,except in one certain thread...you meant that ?

 These then?

 

 I see no sexual SCREEN NAMES in that thread

 Ohh,no lol

Ý meant we add this to the rules

 

No sexual screen names except in the O thread lol

 But none of us have sexual names

Unless "girleegirl" means something sapik in Egypt

 Wont you accept new registrations for that day ?!

Then no Rocco,nor rocco,or maybe RoCcO..or ...

Unless "girleegirl" means something sapik in Egypt

 Eygptian, Swahili, Farsi, Mandarin, Japanese........it means something sapik all around the world! 

Hey Rocco Siffredi would strip for the party!!  Where´d he go??

 Eygptian, Swahili, Farsi, Mandarin, Japanese........it means something sapik all around the world! 

 Bod has a ´girlee´  - is it you??

 Bod has a "girly", not a "girlee".   

  

It´s no surprise you believe this muck....

 Thats what they meant by one word gathering all us together then ?

Totally off-topic but TEASCHIP´S IN THE CHAT ROOM!! 

Totally off-topic but TEASCHIP´S IN THE CHAT ROOM!! 

Totally off-topic but TEASCHIP´S IN THE CHAT ROOM!! 

 WITH SUI!!!!! 

 WITH SUI!!!!! 

Ooops they finished....act natural.... :whistles:

Part of an article "A dictator created then destroyed by America"  

 

"In the aftermath of the international crimes against humanity of 2001 we have tortured, we have murdered, we have brutalised and killed the innocent - we have even added our shame at Abu Ghraib to Saddam´s shame at Abu Ghraib - and yet we are supposed to forget these terrible crimes as we applaud the swinging corpse of the dictator we created.

Who encouraged Saddam to invade Iran in 1980, which was the greatest war crime he has committed for it led to the deaths of a million and a half souls? And who sold him the components for the chemical weapons with which he drenched Iran and the Kurds? We did. No wonder the Americans, who controlled Saddam´s weird trial, forbad any mention of this, his most obscene atrocity, in the charges against him. Could he not have been handed over to the Iranians for sentencing for this massive war crime? Of course not. Because that would also expose our culpability.

And the mass killings we perpetrated in 2003 with our depleted uranium shells and our "bunker buster" bombs and our phosphorous, the murderous post-invasion sieges of Fallujah and Najaf, the hell-disaster of anarchy we unleashed on the Iraqi population in the aftermath of our "victory" - our "mission accomplished" - who will be found guilty of this? Such expiation as we might expect will come, no doubt, in the self-serving memoirs of Blair and Bush, written in comfortable and wealthy retirement. "

 

 

Rest here:http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-a-dictator-created-then-destroyed-by-america-430197.html

NO!!!! She is not talking with Sui. She is bagging herself a dudu to take to the Christmas party!!!!!!!

 I missed this post earlier, very interesting reading.

Thanks Armegon

 

..........America has never been allies with Sadam Hussain.  America is damned if it does, and damned if it doesn´t.  America left Saddam alone for a while because the Iraqis wanted them to, but they were never allies with that man..............

marylyons thinks Al-Zaidi is an idiot. She loves Bush and calls him the most powerful man on eartH

Well ! I doubt that very much. Here is Mr.Bush´s CV. Read and decide who is the real fool.