Turkey |
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Being not married and having a child
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| 1. |
15 Jul 2007 Sun 09:46 pm |
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No! It's not what you think, I'm not pregnant.  But a Turkish friend told me that when a woman in Turkey is not married and has a child that child is not getting an identity card from the government, as if the child does not excist. This not having an ID means also no health insurance but - to me most important - no right to education, to school. The kid will be uneducated, probably also illiterate.
Is that really true? In 2007?
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| 2. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:00 am |
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thats not true Trudy,and which law system can punnish an innocent baby this way,sure it has all rights as the all others..But pity thats a real to soceity look at this kids with the bad eyes as if they r quilty mostly..
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| 3. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:08 am |
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Quoting Trudy: No! It's not what you think, I'm not pregnant. But a Turkish friend told me that when a woman in Turkey is not married and has a child that child is not getting an identity card from the government, as if the child does not excist. This not having an ID means also no health insurance but - to me most important - no right to education, to school. The kid will be uneducated, probably also illiterate.
Is that really true? In 2007? |
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| 4. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:11 am |
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they get idenitity card with surname of her/his mother..
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| 5. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:13 am |
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theres a saying about that in Turkish,''gördüğün inan,duyduğuna inanma''(believe what you saw and don't belive what you heard) 
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| 6. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:17 am |
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Quoting MrX67: theres a saying about that in Turkish,''gördüğün inan,duyduğuna inanma''(believe what you saw and don't belive what you heard) |
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| 7. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:19 am |
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Quoting karekin04: Quoting MrX67: theres a saying about that in Turkish,''gördüğün inan,duyduğuna inanma''(believe what you saw and don't belive what you heard) |
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| 8. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:21 am |
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Quoting MrX67: Quoting karekin04: Quoting MrX67: theres a saying about that in Turkish,''gördüğün inan,duyduğuna inanma''(believe what you saw and don't belive what you heard) |
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Hmmm ama...I would imagine, Mr. X67, in a culture where virginity and parentage are of paramount importance, it is a disgrace to have a child if you are not married...no?
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| 9. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:22 am |
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Quote: i think just an information error karekin.. |
 but on the topic maybe you can answere a question thats kindoff on that topic. If a woman there does have a child when she is not married (with her boyfriend or whatever) do the men take responsibility? Maybe even help out financially?
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| 10. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:27 am |
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Quoting aenigma x: Quoting MrX67: Quoting karekin04: Quoting MrX67: theres a saying about that in Turkish,''gördüğün inan,duyduğuna inanma''(believe what you saw and don't belive what you heard) |
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Hmmm ama...I would imagine, Mr. X67, in a culture where virginity and parentage are of paramount importance, it is a disgrace to have a child if you are not married...no? |
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| 11. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:34 am |
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Quote: Quoting karekin04: i think just an information error karekin.. |
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| 12. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 02:14 am |
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Socity and laws are different things. Society may think it is a shame having a child without marriage. But laws (which are same all around Turkey) protects the innocent baby's rights and treats him/her equal. Has identity (if proven medically) with father2s name and family name. If mum does not want to say who the father is, simply gives the baby her family name, takes the ID.
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| 13. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 12:49 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: well as i said to be a kid without a dad or to be a singel mum may be one of the hardest social stitation in Turkish people still,especially at the rural areas aenigma,may be thats a wrong choice for the mum... |
You can't just blame the mum MrX67! What about the absent dad eh? Doesn't he get any blame? 
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| 14. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 01:28 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: Quoting MrX67: well as i said to be a kid without a dad or to be a singel mum may be one of the hardest social stitation in Turkish people still,especially at the rural areas aenigma,may be thats a wrong choice for the mum... |
You can't just blame the mum MrX67! What about the absent dad eh? Doesn't he get any blame? |
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| 15. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 06:22 pm |
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but MrX... you still are saying things like "you can't blame the child for a parents mistake"???? My question is.... why is it a mistake? If these people are in love and have spent time together and happen to get pregnant its a mistake??? It's looked down on??? So it's ok then women have to have abortions to save face, because I know that happens there. What a sad society having to always hide the reality that its not the early 20th century. Again I say... love and reproducing was around long before the concept of a "legal marriage".
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| 16. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 06:33 pm |
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I am afraid I have to disagree with you, for once Karekin!!! I think there is no excuse for "accidents" these days - its just selfishness and lack of responsibility that causes them (with only a very few exceptions).
Its one thing to be in love for a while and spend time together, but quite another to bring a human being into this world. It should be planned and both parents should think very hard about it. A baby not some kind of "seal" to a relationship, it's at lifetime commitment.
Just my opinion..... 
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| 17. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 06:34 pm |
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Quoting karekin04: but MrX... you still are saying things like "you can't blame the child for a parents mistake"???? My question is.... why is it a mistake? If these people are in love and have spent time together and happen to get pregnant its a mistake??? It's looked down on??? So it's ok then women have to have abortions to save face, because I know that happens there. What a sad society having to always hide the reality that its not the early 20th century. Again I say... love and reproducing was around long before the concept of a "legal marriage". |
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| 18. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 06:41 pm |
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Quote: sure the biggest fault on dad ,and so why passed that for its clear and known by everyoneand really big shame or lack of self respect for a man,to leave her with a baby.. |
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| 19. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 06:46 pm |
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Quote: Quoting geniuda: sure the biggest fault on dad ,and so why passed that for its clear and known by everyoneand really big shame or lack of self respect for a man,to leave her with a baby.. |
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Shame on BOTH of them for NOT using contraception!
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| 20. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 06:48 pm |
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Quote: Quoting aenigma x: Quoting geniuda: sure the biggest fault on dad ,and so why passed that for its clear and known by everyoneand really big shame or lack of self respect for a man,to leave her with a baby.. |
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Shame on BOTH of them for NOT using contraception! |
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| 21. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 06:52 pm |
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Quote: Quoting MrX67: Quoting aenigma x: Quoting geniuda: sure the biggest fault on dad ,and so why passed that for its clear and known by everyoneand really big shame or lack of self respect for a man,to leave her with a baby.. |
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Shame on BOTH of them for NOT using contraception! |
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It was not intended to be a joke. I was following on from my post above. Why would you think it's funny? Sorry, but having a baby is a lifetime commitment, not some kind of joke. If you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to make sure you PLAN a baby and don't let "accidents" happen.
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| 22. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 06:59 pm |
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i think noone of us can't guess feelings of this kind kids,so really very important topic even more then conraception ....to make a baby very easy if you don't have any phsical problem but to creat a strong personality only posible a great harmony of dad&mum,hope its enough reason to be more serious..?
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| 23. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:00 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: i think noone of us can't guess feelings of this kind kids,so really very important topic even more then conraception .... |
How can it be MORE important? If people were more responsible, we would not have to worry about the feelings of these chlidren. It's pretty basic stuff.
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| 24. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:01 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: I am afraid I have to disagree with you, for once Karekin!!! I think there is no excuse for "accidents" these days - its just selfishness and lack of responsibility that causes them (with only a very few exceptions).
Its one thing to be in love for a while and spend time together, but quite another to bring a human being into this world. It should be planned and both parents should think very hard about it. A baby not some kind of "seal" to a relationship, it's at lifetime commitment.
Just my opinion..... |
p.s. how dare you disagree with me, see if I joing your gang! 
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| 25. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:05 pm |
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Karekin!I think you are mistaking what I am saying - clearly, from what you say, your children were planned (it makes no difference if you are married or not, as long as both parents want to bring a human being into this world).
I feel very strongly about all these unplanned pregnancies as I used to work in this area and was sick of hearing about "my boyfriend didn't like using them" or "I can never remember to take pills" coming from parents who were so inept at caring for their children that they were on child-protection registers.
It makes my blood boil!!!!!
PS I dare! 
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| 26. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:05 pm |
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Quote: and how come a kid can get enough love without dad or mum?? |
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| 27. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:10 pm |
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to have a kid,i think the one of most important decide in life which have to think about it thousands of time again and aagain be4 done,for creat a more peacfull,happily and loving generations...
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| 28. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:13 pm |
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Quote: Quoting karekin04: and how come a kid can get enough love without dad or mum?? |
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| 29. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:14 pm |
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i believe that happy societies based on happy families only with exceptions even.
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| 30. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:15 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: Karekin!I think you are mistaking what I am saying - clearly, from what you say, your children were planned (it makes no difference if you are married or not, as long as both parents want to bring a human being into this world).
I feel very strongly about all these unplanned pregnancies as I used to work in this area and was sick of hearing about "my boyfriend didn't like using them" or "I can never remember to take pills" coming from parents who were so inept at caring for their children that they were on child-protection registers.
It makes my blood boil!!!!!
PS I dare! |
My story is to bizarre to even share but it really doesn't fit in any scenerio
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| 31. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:16 pm |
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Quote: Quoting MrX67: Quoting karekin04: and how come a kid can get enough love without dad or mum?? |
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| 32. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:18 pm |
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Quote: Quoting karekin04: Quoting MrX67: Quoting karekin04: and how come a kid can get enough love without dad or mum?? |
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| 33. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 07:26 pm |
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Quote: Quote: Quoting aenigma x:
Shame on BOTH of them for NOT using contraception! |
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It was not intended to be a joke. I was following on from my post above. Why would you think it's funny? Sorry, but having a baby is a lifetime commitment, not some kind of joke. If you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to make sure you PLAN a baby and don't let 'accidents' happen. |
As a single mother (never married) I can say that my child has been the most beautiful blessing I've ever received, I will never regret. I was in love, but surely taking my own responsibility by using contraceptives, I wasn’t planning this but yes, accidents happen. But, I will never consider this an 'accident' or a mistake because even if the dad is not with us, my child has received as much love from 'mum' and family as if the father would be here. Yes, It’s sometimes difficult because the mother has to fight sometimes triple for the child’s well being and I know it is never the same as having both parents together. But as time passed by I realized that it was better this way, why force someone to stay, then get marry and keep a “miserable marriage†which in the long run will not only affect both parties but also the child? Because it was obvious that if the father ran away his love was not truthful. I mean, all situations are different, it all depends on the circumstances, but this is only one example (mine). But yes,I agree with the fact that it is very important to take responsabilites from both sides and plan it
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| 34. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 10:01 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: I am afraid I have to disagree with you, for once Karekin!!! I think there is no excuse for "accidents" these days - its just selfishness and lack of responsibility that causes them (with only a very few exceptions).
Its one thing to be in love for a while and spend time together, but quite another to bring a human being into this world. It should be planned and both parents should think very hard about it. A baby not some kind of "seal" to a relationship, it's at lifetime commitment.
Just my opinion..... |
fully agree!
you cant just go around and fall in love with the person you met and think HE/SHE is my love and then go have sex.
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| 35. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 10:09 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting aenigma x: I am afraid I have to disagree with you, for once Karekin!!! I think there is no excuse for "accidents" these days - its just selfishness and lack of responsibility that causes them (with only a very few exceptions).
Its one thing to be in love for a while and spend time together, but quite another to bring a human being into this world. It should be planned and both parents should think very hard about it. A baby not some kind of "seal" to a relationship, it's at lifetime commitment.
Just my opinion..... |
fully agree!
you cant just go around and fall in love with the person you met and think HE/SHE is my love and then go have sex. |
Sure, you can. That's why we have the welfare system.
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| 36. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 10:10 pm |
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what engima says, would of course be ideal.
but?
parents must raise children teaching them about sexuality.
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| 37. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 10:10 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting aenigma x: I am afraid I have to disagree with you, for once Karekin!!! I think there is no excuse for "accidents" these days - its just selfishness and lack of responsibility that causes them (with only a very few exceptions).
Its one thing to be in love for a while and spend time together, but quite another to bring a human being into this world. It should be planned and both parents should think very hard about it. A baby not some kind of "seal" to a relationship, it's at lifetime commitment.
Just my opinion..... |
fully agree!
you cant just go around and fall in love with the person you met and think HE/SHE is my love and then go have sex. |
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| 38. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 10:16 pm |
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I agree marriage is not the right answer for every situation. If you become pregnant, I don't believe you should automatically marry the guy. This could complicate things even more, if your just getting married for the sake of it. "Well I thought it was the right thing to do" usually means "divorce".
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| 39. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 10:27 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: what engima says, would of course be ideal.
but?
parents must raise children teaching them about sexuality. |
And of course all children take notice of their parents and also those parents themselves have to be role models along with the society they grown up in.
And that means, everywhere you look, TV, advertisements, newspaper, magazines, films, games (computer sort), internet, shop windows, shops themselves........................... and of course some governments (particularly ours) make it easy to be promiscuous, handouts, housing, free this, free that.
Everyone has a responsiblity for their own society and how children grow up.
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| 40. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 11:11 pm |
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Quoting libralady: Quoting femme_fatal: what engima says, would of course be ideal.
but?
parents must raise children teaching them about sexuality. |
And of course all children take notice of their parents and also those parents themselves have to be role models along with the society they grown up in.
And that means, everywhere you look, TV, advertisements, newspaper, magazines, films, games (computer sort), internet, shop windows, shops themselves........................... and of course some governments (particularly ours) make it easy to be promiscuous, handouts, housing, free this, free that.
Everyone has a responsiblity for their own society and how children grow up. |
but parents are the most responsible ones.
there are parents in those societies who raise their children properly in so called sodom and gomorrah.
the thing is that it is parents themselves buy them agresive games or dont control children's PC, dont know what type of books or magazines they may have. maybe in general they absolutely have no contact with children? maybe they are too busy or selfish to communicate?
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| 41. |
16 Jul 2007 Mon 11:49 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting libralady: Quoting femme_fatal: what engima says, would of course be ideal.
but?
parents must raise children teaching them about sexuality. |
And of course all children take notice of their parents and also those parents themselves have to be role models along with the society they grown up in.
And that means, everywhere you look, TV, advertisements, newspaper, magazines, films, games (computer sort), internet, shop windows, shops themselves........................... and of course some governments (particularly ours) make it easy to be promiscuous, handouts, housing, free this, free that.
Everyone has a responsiblity for their own society and how children grow up. |
but parents are the most responsible ones.
there are parents in those societies who raise their children properly in so called sodom and gomorrah.
the thing is that it is parents themselves buy them agresive games or dont control children's PC, dont know what type of books or magazines they may have. maybe in general they absolutely have no contact with children? maybe they are too busy or selfish to communicate? |
And being a responsible parent yourself you would know how easy it is to keep your children from the sort of rubbish displayed daily - once your children are at school you only have control over what is in the home. You have no control over pier pressure, or what is taught and how it is taught.
I agree, first and foremost children are the responsibility of the parent but as a parent there are many hurdles and outside pressures to overcome.
Social exposure is everywhere and you dont really have control over that, all you can do it hopefully train your children in the rights and wrongs and hope it all sinks in. But children have a lovely habit of doing the absolute opposite to what there parents say or do.
Take a family of two chilren both brought up the same by very responsible parents. One does well at school, does nothing wrong; the other, gets into trouble at school, with police, drugs, and ends up in prison - now explain that?
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| 42. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 12:18 am |
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But most of the people in the east don't have ID cards,MrX67.
Well,my mom watches woman reality programmes
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| 43. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 12:20 am |
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Quoting uzeyir: But most of people in the east don't have ID cards,MrX67.
Well,my mom watches woman reality programmes |
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| 44. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 12:26 am |
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Quoting MrX67: Quoting uzeyir: But most of people in the east don't have ID cards,MrX67.
Well,my mom watches woman reality programmes |
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Then why does Serap Ezgü call women's husbands?She says "come here and let your child have an id card"
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| 45. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 12:32 am |
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Quoting uzeyir: Quoting MrX67: Quoting uzeyir: But most of people in the east don't have ID cards,MrX67.
Well,my mom watches woman reality programmes |
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Then why does Serap Ezgü call women's husbands?She says "come here and let your child have an id card" |
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| 46. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 12:36 am |
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Quoting MrX67: Quoting uzeyir: Quoting MrX67: Quoting uzeyir: But most of people in the east don't have ID cards,MrX67.
Well,my mom watches woman reality programmes |
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Then why does Serap Ezgü call women's husbands?She says "come here and let your child have an id card" |
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It seems a nice job,but to change my mother's mind is still difficult
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| 47. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 12:40 am |
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Quoting uzeyir: Quoting MrX67: Quoting uzeyir: Quoting MrX67: Quoting uzeyir: But most of people in the east don't have ID cards,MrX67.
Well,my mom watches woman reality programmes |
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Then why does Serap Ezgü call women's husbands?She says "come here and let your child have an id card" |
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It seems a nice job,but to change my mother's mind is still difficult |
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| 48. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 12:43 am |
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libra
as a parent you do all your best,
but for goodness sake you are not your child.
if your child chooses wrong things, then... nothing you can do, it must be his/her nature.
you cannot ban everything around you! you cant turn all evil into flowers for the comfort of your child. the world is tough, they will face the evil things soon or later.
but i should admit i do agree with you: there is too much of evil going in mass-media (in public), it simply became sodom and gomorrah.
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| 49. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 12:49 am |
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humanity choking in hedonism hell day by day,so immediately have to found social recipes for save next generations..
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| 50. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 10:39 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: libra
as a parent you do all your best,
but for goodness sake you are not your child.
if your child chooses wrong things, then... nothing you can do, it must be his/her nature.
you cannot ban everything around you! you cant turn all evil into flowers for the comfort of your child. the world is tough, they will face the evil things soon or later.
but i should admit i do agree with you: there is too much of evil going in mass-media (in public), it simply became sodom and gomorrah. |
Oh so you agree with me then!! 
Maybe I am old, and may I look stupid (gomorrah what is it? :-S ) but I have successfully brought up two sons! The reference above was me and my brother and we were brought up in the 60's, by ultra strict parents when social life was very different to now!
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| 51. |
17 Jul 2007 Tue 08:26 pm |
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Quoting libralady:
Oh so you agree with me then!!
Maybe I am old, and may I look stupid (gomorrah what is it? :-S ) but I have successfully brought up two sons! The reference above was me and my brother and we were brought up in the 60's, by ultra strict parents when social life was very different to now! |
'sodom and gomorrah!' - they say (some shout) seeing a chaos. search in wikipedia.
how can you be sure of bringing up children succesfully?
cant you be modest? cant you say: "i strictly brought up children and i do hope they are good people?"
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| 52. |
18 Jul 2007 Wed 11:47 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting libralady:
Oh so you agree with me then!!
Maybe I am old, and may I look stupid (gomorrah what is it? :-S ) but I have successfully brought up two sons! The reference above was me and my brother and we were brought up in the 60's, by ultra strict parents when social life was very different to now! |
'sodom and gomorrah!' - they say (some shout) seeing a chaos. search in wikipedia.
how can you be sure of bringing up children succesfully?
cant you be modest? cant you say: "i strictly brought up children and i do hope they are good people?" |
At 27 and 29 they have never been in trouble with the police, don't take drugs, both went to university and got degrees and are both successful in their jobs. And I was not strict, my parents were.
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| 53. |
18 Jul 2007 Wed 11:56 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal:
'sodom and gomorrah!' |
I have never had reason to read the bible, and I am an agnostic so therefore I have not encountered these words before. Now I know!
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| 54. |
19 Jul 2007 Thu 12:00 am |
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Quoting libralady: Quoting femme_fatal:
'sodom and gomorrah!' |
I have never had reason to read the bible, and I am an agnostic so therefore I have not encountered these words before. Now I know! |
Haven't you ever heard of General Knowledge though? I never had reason to read Harry Potter, but I know its about a wizzard kid
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| 55. |
19 Jul 2007 Thu 12:06 am |
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Quoting libralady: Quoting femme_fatal:
'sodom and gomorrah!' |
I have never had reason to read the bible, and I am an agnostic so therefore I have not encountered these words before. Now I know! |
so havent searched in wikipedia? you lazylady!
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| 56. |
19 Jul 2007 Thu 12:08 am |
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to be parent,migh the most holy but hard mission of life,so have to think thousands times be4 get this great mission,things goin so worse day by day,noone of us don't have any right to give more trouble to society with our a few minutes enjoy.....
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| 57. |
19 Jul 2007 Thu 01:34 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: Quoting libralady: Quoting femme_fatal:
'sodom and gomorrah!' |
I have never had reason to read the bible, and I am an agnostic so therefore I have not encountered these words before. Now I know! |
Haven't you ever heard of General Knowledge though? I never had reason to read Harry Potter, but I know its about a wizzard kid |
General knowledge to me is all about what you are interested in and I am not interested in that particular subject. Therefore it does not automatically store in my brain. And I wait for the sarcastic response about age etc etc 
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| 58. |
19 Jul 2007 Thu 01:37 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting libralady: Quoting femme_fatal:
'sodom and gomorrah!' |
I have never had reason to read the bible, and I am an agnostic so therefore I have not encountered these words before. Now I know! |
so havent searched in wikipedia? you lazylady! |
No I am too busy polishing my ivory tower
btw, it must have been tucked away somewhere in my pea size brain, as how would I know those words come from the Bible? 
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| 59. |
19 Jul 2007 Thu 01:38 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: to be parent,migh the most holy but hard mission of life,so have to think thousands times be4 get this great mission,things goin so worse day by day,noone of us don't have any right to give more trouble to society with our a few minutes enjoy..... |
Just a few minutes?
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| 60. |
19 Jul 2007 Thu 02:35 pm |
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Quoting libralady: General knowledge to me is all about what you are interested in and I am not interested in that particular subject. Therefore it does not automatically store in my brain. And I wait for the sarcastic response about age etc etc |
No sarcasm - just shock. General knowledge is only what you are interested in? Hell! That must make for a very narrow-minded view on life....
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| 61. |
19 Jul 2007 Thu 03:19 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: Quoting libralady: General knowledge to me is all about what you are interested in and I am not interested in that particular subject. Therefore it does not automatically store in my brain. And I wait for the sarcastic response about age etc etc |
No sarcasm - just shock. General knowledge is only what you are interested in? Hell! That must make for a very narrow-minded view on life.... |
Oh well, so be it! Only I know how far my interests go...........and I dont have time to write all about them here
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| 62. |
19 Jul 2007 Thu 06:03 pm |
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It is easy thing to have a baby..but it is the most important thing has to be look after him/her well..so if you think to give him/her a good life,good education without father! why not?but I dont think so..father is father everytime...
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