Greeks and Turks have more in common than they might like to admit. First of all, the food. Giant slabs of meat roasting on a stick - call it kebab or call it souvlaki, it´s the same thing. Then there is spanakopita, or borek in Turkish, olives, white beans in tomato sauce (fasuliye or fasolada) and the sweets: baklava, helva, kadayif, not to mention all the yogurt....

They have many words in common, too, despite the complete difference in language. They both drive with a devil-may-care attitude, and use the already narrow sidewalks as parking lanes. Both countries are fiercely proud of their history, language and culture - if you listen to a Greek, they invented everything, if you listen to a Turk, their country is the very birthplace of civilization. And if you have problems with the evil eye, they will sell you the same charms in Athens as in Istanbul.

http://debnemens.blogspot.com/

Absolutely! In fact, we all have more in common then we think. It´s quite sad how people prefer to fight against each other instead of working together...

Roswitha, the music is the same too. We lived together hundreds of years.

Another reason for the similarities is that the Greeks actually lived together with Turks when other minorities formed their own districts or neighborhoods. The Greeks were also trusted with important services in the government.

We learned many things from Greeks. They served as our window into the European civilization. There is still a sympathy for Greek people in Turkey unaffected from the bitter incidents of the near past. I believe majority of people in Turkey would like to be closer to Greeks on account not only of the similarities but also of the fact that these two peoples have proven that they could form a synergetic coexistence.

Unfortunately, like in many other things, the voice of rednecks who racistically name Turks as barbarians or Mongols on the Greek side and those who ridicule Greeks on the Turkish side is heard more than that of the moderate people.

I could not agree more..

 Wait a minute...I thought We, phoenicians, invented everything

I truely think that mediterraneans have many things in comon and they should focus more on what unites them instead of what divides them.

Roswitha, you forgot to mention the most important beverage in the region and that is arak (arabic) Raki (turkish), Ouzo (greek), Oghi (armenia). It is so good with kebab especially when it is home made. cheers.

The problem is when you are in the country.. as a Turk who lives overseas, my best friends have always been Greeks, and Greek Cypriots.

By the way, Please watch "My big fat Greek Wedding" if you haven´t until now... I always see my people there.

Cypriot greeks arent like the ones who lives in Greece, at least they arent so uneducated and dont shout without any reason with their wives  and get a shout as answer from them even in the streets. Ýn Cyprus almost everybody knows english so its not a big deal to comunicate with them while in Greece, mainly in Big cities like Athens and Salonika, if you dont know any Greek, you may have a lots of problems to buy food or find your right way for example. Here even if you dont know any turkish, the native ones try their best to make you understand what they are trying to explain and also to understand you. There, men prefer get married with a woman who is rich. The tradition there is that the woman must have the house (her parents buy or build one for all of their daughters so if they get divorced they will have a place to stay, but some stupid ones pass the house in name of their husbands and after the divorce they have no place to go except their parents houses. The parents of the woman give everything for the house, even the basic stuff but the guy just get inside of it and make lots of complains about what he see

In here ( Turkey) people are fast to help foreingner without asking anything in exchange and if they can they also offer you help to learn turkish and they give you a place to stay when you have got no one and they offer you the best that they have at home, even their own beds. In Greece greeks are always self-centered and owner of the reason. Even when they are quite wrong they always wanna prove they are right, they have bad educated behaviour at table and they like to use bad words all the time and speak bad things (I meant lies) even among themselves when the person isnt close to defend him/herself. Even if they can help they never do.. they always think about their own navels before everything, they have no idea how its difficult to be a foreingner in their country if you came from miles away and have no relatives around you. They dont care about taking a exam to go to the university even knowing that all courses and uni there are public, they are always affraid of leaving their families to go to another city to study or work since their mother do everything for them and they dont know how to do anything by themselves.. they think that everybody around is guilty for the bad situations except themselves.. they treat their mothers as slaves and shout with them when they dont find any ironed t-shirt in their rooms... They complain that foreigner have jobs and they dont... if we wanna get a job there we must accept anything like washing dishes in a dirty traditional restaurant by hours getting a ridiculous salary but they dont accept this sort of job coz they think they desirve something better to spend money talking and drinking frappes for hours without doing or thinking about anything, life for them has no responsability, it should be for enjoying all the time ( like Socrates and Platon thoughts).

Most of them like spending time speaking bad things about turks and telling that one day they will organize a war to take ´Constantinopla´ back from the turks.They never mention the world ´Istanbul´. But I never saw any turk losing their time talking such stupid things against greeks in here.

I am talking those experiences I had while living for a year in Greece and compairing with my almost 6 months here in Turkey. So I mean, I am not talking about things I heard from someone or I watched in a movie, this was I experienced in my own skin and saw with my own eyes.

This is unbelievably generalistic and rude!!!  Most Greeks I know have better things to do than sit around "speaking bad things" about Turks! Maybe you only met "uneducated" people there

I am sure our Greek members will love it.........

 I am not being generalist. At least 90% of them are like this. If you never have been there or here for at least one month dont talk about what you dont know.

 All the Brazilians I ever met were opinionated and rude.... how do you like MY generalisation !

 How many times have I heard this before on TC?  Usually from little girls who have blind love for Turks...

What I am talking in here is real and meaningfull, since I am not talking about a fairy tale. I really dont care about what you think. My post wasnt putted in here because of you or to learn your opinion. You havent been there I suppose so just talk when you lived it. By the way. England as far as I know has the most strungle  immigration system in the world, they treat everybody like garbage mainly the ones who come from latin or muslim origin so, you are not the most indicated here to say anything.

And what I am talking about is your very real GENERALISATION.  Did you visit ALL of Greece?  All of Turkey?  You would get a very different opinion in a southern village in Turkey, than in Istanbul, and I am sure the same can be said in Greece.

The way you describe the entire Greek population is laughable! You talk of them 

being uneducated, intolerant of Turks etc?  You are insulting an entire country.  Not only this but you state is as FACT without even saying "in my opinion". 

PS. I can post my opinion without your permission

What´s up?  Would they not let you in?

You will have a very narrow mind if you continue to judge people by their nationality, not by their individual actions.

It is peasant mentality.

Ah so you make no comment about  how the police behave with us in the airport and how we are treated in the streets in London for example,  right? Everybody in there from latin country is treated as stealer or prostitute and muslim people as terrrists. How do you like the generalisation of your police?

As far as I know telling the truth isnt an insult, insult is inventing lies about other who arent present to defend themseves.

I have been in many cities in here and Greece, and I am not talking about Istanbul or just big cities in Greece.

You are so funny!  You are talking about wrong things with my country´s government NOT it´s people! With regard to immigration at the airport, you would find that Brazil would behave the same way if you had millions of people trying to live there. We are a very small country.

I am always happy to discuss all the many faults with our government.  However, I believe THIS discussion was about judging an entire population of individuals and describing them as "uneducated" etc.

You should not get the two things mixed up dear. 

A guy who was working with work visa as electricist in your very powerful and allmight country was killed from his backs inside the metro station as a cockroach and until now nobody was punished or taken out from the police. They affirmed their confunded him with a terrorist. Ýf the police in here or in some 3rd world country had commited the same  ´mistake´ I am sure the british government would inved the country and kill the guilty one withou worrying about anything. People from your county (not just the police) think they are better than the rest of the world either and actually we dont need England for nothing. As you said it a small country qua qua qua.

 Sorry, but nobody in our country considers outselves to be "powerful and almighty".  

I agree this sounds very bad - do you want an argument about which of our country´s is the most corrupt (England or Brazil)?   As I said before I am happy to discuss the MANY faults of my country - I dont have blind devotion to one country like yourself.

I think you should calm down and stop using this forum as an outlet to relieve you of all your nationalistic hatred!!!!

You can have the "last word" as I really see know point in furthering this discussion sweety.

Flowers for you

 That´s terrible..they are very bed Brits.....

the discussion here is about greeks and turks so, stop trying to justify your called 1st world country in here.

 This is great fun

You argue like a child!!!!  Actually, it was YOU who went off-topic and started talking about the UK

Adios amigo

 Yes!  Stop it now Aenigma!!

 Sadly, this observation appears to be true - even on this forum!

and your posts looks very adult as we can see...

 Me no.. if you look back your first post you are gonna see that you  putted Brazil in the middle of the conversation talking about how they are opined and rude. Not the contrary as you say. If it was a british guy who was supporting his family with his honest job and legally in any country, and was confunded with a terrorist and was killed like cockroach with 5 shots in his backs in front of lots of people inside the metro you would feel so indignant as I still feel after those 3 years without no response or punishment.

PS: I AM NOT YOUR AMÝGO and second: amigo is used for men. I suppose that if those post wasnt put here in english you wouldnt be able to give your ´very adult´ discartable opinions in here.

 Did you not realise I said that as an example/joke as it is similar to your generalised comments about Greeks?

I would never say such a thing seriously about an entire population!  I have met some wonderful Brazilian people...... lately I met one who is a not so

Adios amigo

 Ah joke... it was a joke...  you never talk in seriou in here, you are here just to cause polemic and make fun with serious things.

 I wish you wouldn´t add things to your posts after I answered them!  Actually I was very serious - my joke was to make a serious point.  Maybe you should try it sometime

Aenigma.. Please,for Gods sake do not cause an arguement for only one day

Lady_Metal - if you add huge amounts of texts to your posts AFTER I responded, how can I possibly respond to your points?  Especially as those posts are directed to me

 I would never try it since I am not like you... making fun with quite serious things may be your way to live and spend your time but itsnt mine.

 Dont worry - your comment about Greeks being uneducated was the funniest thing I read here for years

You are very good at making funny comments

 i am not saying Greeks are rude, but I really wonder, why are you so upset.. and by the way, in lots of threads we were called racists, and blah blah, and generalised for many things.. and when we tried to defend ourselves, you people were making fun of it.  What happened now?  Why can you people generalise Turks but not Greeks??????

 I have never said "all Turkish are racists" - I love Turkey and Turkish people and would never say such a stupid generalisation about any country

If you think differently, please feel free to quote my post where I said this

PS I am not upset at all by Lady Metal´s post - I just disagreed.

 + 1!

 When you agree with something serious in your life we are gonna prepair a big party with fireworksby the way you said previously that I am devoted for Turkey this is why I am telling such things about greeks.You dont know me so dont tell it again. Second : the truth generally is painful to hear. Third: as I said before, you never lived in there, you have no idea about how things work in there.

 I agree about the fact that one´s behaviour is always different when they are home and when they are away from home.

Thank goodness our dear classmate Sophie is not here to read what some of you think of Greeks.  Uneducated?  Hmmmmmm dont think so

Since when are you telling others what to say (again) or not? What an arrogance!

 I couldn´t agree more.....I have relatives in Italy (Naples and Sicily) and I have found much common ground with Turkish culture....more common than not! 

 Well I did not say that.. like I said, most of my best friends are Greeks.. but the fact is people change according to their environment..

We have a saying in Turkish:

Her horoz kendi çöplüðünde öter... which means every person is more confident and powerful in their homeground.

By the way, I think it is quite sad that there are still people from Greeks and Turks who doesn´t like each other, blame each other or tolerate each other.

I think we should really enjoy the fact of sharing a great culture, cuisine, food, etc.

 I meant dont tell ME it again. You are not supposed to tell anything about someone/something you dont know.

 Simple solution if you don´t want to read what other people write: Don´t read.

 I agree with you and frankly posts like Lady_metal´s that insult the entire population of Greece do not help.

Luckily we have a better perspective from a Turk (not a Brazilian) - Vineyards

you are wrong. the head of London police department was forced to resign by boris johnson a few months ago.

 Ah really? That´s good to know that they took some providence about this case, it looks as if it would keep forgotten in the time.

I think the investigation is still going on..and I dont think B. Jhonson sacking Blair is anything got to do with that case..

Calm down people...

What are we really discussing here?

I like Greece very much. I was there last year and looking forward to visiting the country again in the near future.

Brazil is another country I am so curious about. Hope I can see it in my life time. (which seems to be the only way actually).

I find most British people to be  very logical, informed and well-mannered. These observation leaves out the British football fans who turned the entire ground of Taksim square into a stinking, sticky, beer quagmire. (Liverpool fans as they were waiting for the final match vs AC Milan)

 Actually after 3 years they are still investigating.. this story of ´ we confunded him with a terrorist´ was proved that it was a lie. They followed him since he left his house until the metro, then they started to shot againt him with the metro station full of people withou caring if some shot could reach somebody else... actually the truth is that they thought he was living illegaly in there and when they asked him to stop he got scared and ran. This is why he was murdered. Anyway even if the guys was fired and they paid a good money to the family, nothing would bring his life back

 Dearest Vineyards,

THIS is what we are discussing....

 I totally agree... very well said

This thread should be called Lady-Metal´s view of countries.

We had Greece

Then UK

Who is next?

it is obvious that you have become calmer since you are a father i vividly remember your passionate arguements here by the way..i agree

 scared emotion was really funny

Your tolerance on this website amazes me!  Read the post below and imagine it was written about Turkish people.....

 You forgot I mentioned Turkey as well. And you looks more interested about discussing my posts than the theme as a totality. While you just keep your ass sitting in a confortable chair in your ´great´ 1st world country and just know the other countries by photo or from what people tell you, its quite easy to make an argument. When you are going abroad and see with your eyes you can understand the difference. And this is what you dont want understand in here or dont wanna see.

YOUR description of my country, not mine

I have travelled a great deal in my working life, so actually you should take your own advice and not comment on me personally unless you know me

do you mean this Aenigma? Read her post that i am quoted

 ah the same about when you told me I am devoted for Turkey and this is why I was telling so ´bad´ things about greeks.

America? (The bed and the gud ones of course)

Some country in western Europe? Name  any.

Or just North-Korea or Birma?

 Hehehe yesssssss! But you missed a few - go back and edit

i have personally worked and lived in both turkey and greece, i believe we are all human beings and not "labels" there are good and bad people in all parts of the world you dont have to visit them to know that, and i am talking from experence!! Dont put people in boxes just because of were they were born, and please stop attacking uk, noone is attacking brazil !!     

it was boring enough to read those racist sentences. cant do it again. sorry

Well, knowledge is very much related to experience.  Like Susan said, you can not generalise people, as we are humans, and every human being is different.  Lady-Metal could have a point, while when Ciko edited her text, it has a point too.. There are good people and bad people, good policies and bad policies everywhere, but i think you can not generalise a whole community because of an individual.

 I seriously don´t know if I should cry for you or laugh at you.  Your posts are absurd and yet you are quite serious with your one-sided, backwards views.  I´m so confused.  What to do...what to do.....

 guess I will go for the laugh!!! 

Incidentally, is there some kind of a tension between Britain and Brazil? I suppose there is one between Argentina and the UK. Argentina and Brazil being archrivals (at least in football), the Brazilians must logically be siding up with the UK against the tango boys. Could  there be some kind of a Latin pact against the UK?

If so why do you dance at their carnivals?

 No never

Until today.....

When Aenigma joins the discussion, it becomes 7 pages in a few hours!

 Admin is still paying me £10 a post ya?

 I can do that for 1 pound perpost lol

 But it is...

 better to have....

 £10 per post

 Dimi?

 This is a bit rich comming from you TheAenigma when you recently laughed a new member off the site for merely saying he was greek.

Yes Greece is our neighbor.

Neighborliness is very important for our culture for good times and bad tmes.

And we like  Greekland and its ancient history.

Same climate, same district, same culture.

We  always  gave some useful info’s.they want to our Greek friends from TLC.

But any how they don’t give  us  any  info on Thessaloniki and  Athina unfortunately.Even a reply?

EXCEPT  evchron...I thank her very much.

 Actually - as I keep telling you (but you choose not to listen) My "laugh" consisted of a "" and had nothing to do with that person being Greek, but because of the kind of comments we have seen about them here!

I will call it contamination!!

Quoting thehandsom

I will call it contamination!!

 Oh really?

And what would you call YOUR pages of arguments?  Intelligent discussion?

O

M

G!!!!

Shut up ppl! First of al its so wrong to generalise smthg abot a whole group of peple! You cant say fro example all egyptians are funny, or blah blah, there are teh good and there are the bad, its as simple as that! theres the educated and the non-, and if we were to sit and pick out the faults of EVERY country, it´d take us a million years!!!!!!!! And lady metal, lol, you didnt sy not even one good thing about them! You culdve at lest said some good and some bad!!!And about the similaraties between tURKS AND GREEKS, OF cOURSE undeniablle!!!All meditterian counries to say the truth, my mom says there used to be alot of greeks living in Egypt, she says especially in Alexandria, they always have restraunts i dont know why , and i think there were alot of greeks in Turkey during the ottoman tmes, or am i completely wrong? Anyway, food, culture, eerything isn´t it amaing how were all so alike in so many ways? B t unfortunately, nobody likes to admit them, everyody´s too proud and too arrogant!Imagine fr ex, Turkey and greece could do united?

ANywya... ummmm.... im bored

 It was one of several reasons - Blair had been asking for it for a while.

Ha ha ..I agree completely.. And me too..

 Of course there is!  Masa won the race but Hamilton won the championship

 Useful references:

Iraqi Genocide thread....

That thread was necessary for enlightment!!

Quoting thehandsom

That thread was necessary for enlightment!!

 Of course darling .... we are always looking to you for wisdom and enlightment.....

But never finding

haha Obviously you wont get any!! And I am getting paid £15 pounds for my posts..

looooooooooool!! U ppl are crazy really! But-dont ever stop!Who said brits were boring???

(ummmm..THE WHOLE WORLD!!!!)

 I sometimes pay £15 for wine....but rarely find it better than a £7 bottle

 you two are stealing my dear admin... i will do what you do for 1 pound per post

can it be the reason that you dont have the taste?

 No I have very good taste - I just don´t believe hype and expensive packaging

 One Brit and One Turk and give a good stir and you get a very hot dish

 Dont you mean one Brit and one Brazilian?

(bu arada...where I come from Brazilians are something completely different )

I seriously doubt about that..

Quoting thehandsom

I seriously doubt about that..

 Well of course you are the wise and enlightening one ...

It is good that you have acknowledged

Quoting thehandsom

It is good that you have acknowledged

 May I join your band of faithfully adoring ladies?

Sorry, But no...

Quoting thehandsom

Sorry, But no...

 Phew! It would have been hard .....

ha ha do you always say that when you are refused?

Quoting thehandsom

ha ha do you always say that when you are refused?

 I dont know - it never happened

okeeeeyyyy. whatever you say.. anyway. I am letting you ´off´ this time..

And now, what is the latest topic?

Quoting thehandsom

okeeeeyyyy. whatever you say.. anyway. I am letting you ´off´ this time..

 Oh really?!!!!!!  How kind canim.

Wow! That was some serious sexual tension between theH and theA!!!

 That is exactly what I meant!  One Brit and One Turk, stir and you get a very hot dish

 Hard ?  Enlighten us

 Hahaha

Dont worry canim, I didn´t forget you

I´m still waiting for your bikini pictures darling...

 Oh god .... here is Meltem

It was j..j..jj.jjjjust a joke Meltem!

Where... where is she? She was supposed to be on vacation!

 Ã couldnt agree more too,we have lots in common between us ´Egyptians´ and all mediterraneans.

You could feel you have good understanding for the way they think,believes and the way their brains works .. as if you are reading them .

Although i had some experience not a long time ago.

Ý have a greek friend,he is  cool and nice ,he wanted to interduce me to one of his friends,so i met her in another forum at the chat there,we used to see each other there before

He taught me how to greet in greek

Once i started and said hello,it was like a storm coming to my way...and as you may know ´if you are familiar with mediterraneans´ its not easy to stop them once they start hee hee

She was actully attacking me,fighting out of the blue !

Her problem was....she thought i was a Turk !

Ý dont know how did she suspect it,but that was it,started accusing me of being murderer...and many others.

Of course,i was replying in English and my friend translated what i said at first,that i could also say same about her just for being greek if i want...etc and it was almost a fight between us and havent ended untill my friend took over and explained that im not Turk but im Egyptian

she apologized,and was being over friendly too...but it was too late ,it wasnt enough for me,i said and what if im Turk?!

Needless to say,that i made my friend pay for that later 

The point...she didnt even know me...but she judged,attacked me just for being a Turk,and didnt stopped untill she knew otherwise!

If we had some kind of pact against UK our immigration would behave with them exactly as they do with us at there in the passport control and also in the streets.

   People who started this forum talked about the similarities and I showed the differences. I am not telling that they should be united or separated (greeks and turks) and by the way, the problems coz of Brazil was world champion 5 times and Argentinians are envious coz they won just 2 and the first one was stolen, really isnt a reason to quarrel at all, since we never had any 400 years of domination between each other and  althought we are neighborns, the differences are bigger than the similarities ( by the way I honestly today admite more the argentinian football then brazilian one since they dont have lots or dirtiness in the time to convoke players - just calling the ones who are patrocinated by Nike - and their matches are better to watch since they are tatically obedients and more intelligent than brazilian ones to play), but actually this isnt my point in here, the same way as I am not attacking UK as well, but people think that tell the truth is a attack or being rude and abusive, foreigners arent deported from the airport in here or another 3rd  world country when they have the documents necessary to enter just coz the policeguy at the immigration control didnt go with their face and just decide for it himself as they do in Spain and mainly in UK (observe that before leaving our countries we must pay for the visa and apply  months before go, but if you look at spanish or british embassy sites they say clearly that even if they give you a visa, its not garanteed that when you reach there they will let you get in, even in Greece it wasnt different at immigration control,they search for drugs in our luggage and make us show money to them and make the same questions thousands of times if your passport doesnt belongs to EU, completely different from here where you are received with a smile and a welcome and no questions or luggage check. But what I am trying to say is that people generally likes to discuss about polemic topics without have any vivence on it, most of people who wrote their opinion here never have been in Greece. Actually I must admit that my first week in there as tourist was amazing coz they was behaving different. After you start to live there, things run to see different... the same about everywhere in the world. Of course that you will find bad points everywhere... but I think it will be useless keeping such discussion since we will not reach any solution and things wont change. Some Greek people I met in my country says that they saw their grandfathers of fathers being murdered for a turk soldier in front of their eyes and this is why they hate turks... some greeks after living abroad for years came back to their land and was rejected for their own compatriots... they said that they couldnt keep living there and went back to Canada or another country they was living before.

I respect your opinion about UK immigration Lady_Metal, but have you considered what our solution is.

Every SINGLE day in the UK, 1,500 immigrants arrive.  Imagine what the figure would be if our immigration was less strict.

Whilst I appreciate our immigration is overly strict (and sometimes very unfair) - what is your solution?

 To treat every other human as a fellow human being????

 As I said above Merih, I agree with you that our immigration is very tough and overly harsh. 

My question was, what solution do you have?  Let all immigrants into the country until people fall into the sea?

 That´s what I said.. the problem is how they treat you, more than if they allow you in the country.  I did not face any problems until now, as I am Australian at the same time.  but even some of my Aussie friends, originally from Italy, or Spain, or Greece and who has a bit darker complexion than usual have been treated as suspects.. and that is ridiculous.  Who gives the right to these people they have a right to treat an other one badly, or humiliate them???

So I think the solution is very much behavioural...  I do not say, they should allow everyone in the country, as we face the same thing in Australia, but they can treat the others humanly.

The problem with trying to reason with you Lady-metal, is that essential you are rabid west hater.   Whatever is said, you will continue to hate us.

You hate everything about the UK and it´s greedy capitalism.  However, people like you are the very ones who want to come here and complain bitterly when you have problems getting a visa.

If you hate our country so much, the way it is run, our fair system of giving money to the poor and unemployed - why you want to come here so much?

 I agree with you about this Merih and I think it is very very sad.  I have friends who are DAILY judged by their appearance and colour of their skin.  It makes me feel sick

 I know this and I understand as well. The solution is everyone keep in their own countries of find another country to immigrate since we know that there is no opportunities of job in there as before, so no reason to immigrate to UK for at least 5 years ago.But even to enter as tourist is quite a nightmare!

OK I take back my above comments!!! Apologies.

I agree with you that you should be free to enter as a tourist with no hastle and EQUAL treatment.

 Where in my posts you understood that I want go there so much? And show me where did I say I hate your country and british people? What are you talking about? I never tried to enter in your country coz I have lots of firends who wasnt accepted and was deported and they was going to study english. I learnt it by myself, I thing I dont need to go to there to learn english, right? or even to find a job.

 I think The Aenigma did her best.  It would be really good if you can make peace..

 Well you certainly gave the impression that you hate us!

Anyway, see above post - I apologised for my comment

 I accept your apologies and more, I invite you to have a cup of tea!

By the way when I want to say something I dont give any impression but I tell it directly. The same way as I never said I hate greeks at all.

Tesekkur ederim

Would prefer Brazilian coffee though

NO PROBLEM

Peace in country Peace in world ...M.K.ATATURK

Mevlana Celalettin´s words:
"gel, gel, ne olursan ol yine gel.
ister kâfir, ister mecusi, ister puta tapan ol yine gel.
bizim dergâhýmýz, ümitsizlik dergâhý deðildir.
yüz kere tövbeni bozmuþ olsan da yine gel..."


"Come, come, whoever you are.
Wonderer, worshipper, lover of leaving.
It doesn´t matter.
Ours is not a caravan of despair.
Come, even if you have broken your vow
a thousand times
Come, yet again, come, come

Love your neighbors -Lets first learn how to be humans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8nlSgJFMsg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIVWqZog8vw&feature=related

Nice one Roswitha,

What a lovely way to end a debate of which you started. Lets hope everyone takes note.

 Yes, dear Ros always starts debates, then glides off into the sunset 

I always picture her with matches in hand, striking one, throwing it into the kindling that is TC, then quietly moving on to her next subject with a secret smile on her face.

The silent assassin

TheAenigma,  It was bonfire night yesterday, and if Ros glides off into the sunset, she has still left a nice ending. OR AS SHE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKdhcXbXI7o

look at the last comment on this video by kebabConnectionTr look waht he syas, i think hes right and sums it all up!

Thanks so very much for your commebnts dear Sheena and Theaenigma.

 I noticed that both Greeks and Turks have very much in common.  I mentioned to a Turk once that I wanted to go to Greece and he said "why go to Greece when Turkey is so much better".

Are these Turks and Greeks??

And don´t forget Sambuca from Italy. Very similar drink (and my favorite)

Yes I love it too, but I only put some icecubes in it, not water like I put with raký or ouzo. Not everyone seems to agree that they are ´very´ simular though: I had two friends from the Netherlands with me on holiday this year, and we always drink Sambuca together on a night out, but they really couldn´t understand how people can drink raký.

 Ice in Sambuca????????? Nahhhhh - three coffee beans and light it, drink through the flames!  The Italian way hehehehe

 Oh I should try that! What do you mean with light drink?

 +1000000

There is no other way to drink it Mmmmmmmm

 No I meant light it as in set fire to it!  Drink it down in one btw.................

Just missed the "it" out first time (been back and added ut)

Yes, I don´t think Raki is as sweet (or strong). Yilmaz will drink Raki, but dosen´t like Sambuca. And this is someone who will put çok, çok tatli in his çay!

That´s the way!! Right on!

 I havent tasted Raki nor Sambuca. I tried ouzo and i found it not as strong in alcohol as Arak.

Tradition requires that water is added to Arak before ice. If ice is added directly, it results in the formation of an aesthetically unpleasant skin on the surface of the drink, as the ice causes the fat to solidify out of the arak. If water is added first, the ethanol causes the fat to emulsify, leading to the characteristic milky colour.

Anyways, below is a link for the recipe of arak, any idea how they make Raki?

http://toula-lebanon.blogspot.com/2006/11/making-arak.html

 Haa like that. I was already surprised

I was in a bar last summer, actually it was just as you describe, with a coffeebean and they set it on fire (I dont know what liquor it was, it wasnt sambuca but it was just as strong for sure), you were to drink it down immediately and then turn the glass on the table with a straw between it so you could ´breathe in´ the air that was left in your glass and supposedly the alcohol that vaporated by setting it on fire. Its supposed to make you get drunk quickly, but I wouldnt know because the alcohol probably already vaporated by the time I had the guts to put my lips to a glass that had just been on fire

I should try it out though. I realized it doesn´t get that hot

I BELIEVE THAT NOT ONLY GREEKS AND TURKS HAVE SIMILARITIES,BUT ALSO ALL PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD...FIGHT AGAINST RACHISM,IT´S ONE OF THE BIGEST DISEASES IN OUR WORLD TODAY!!!!

To me all sorts of anis, raki, arak and ouzo are equally tasteless. I don´t believe you can produce noble drinks from potato, sugar reed, anis or barley. Somehow however, Turkish people like raki and look down on other anis drinks. To me, there is not much difference at all.

In Lebanon arak has been considered before the industrial revolution as the noble drink and wine the popular one.

Indeed, the Lebanese masses could not afford the copper still to distill arak while wine making did not require heavy investments. The wealthy Lebanese who owned a still produced refined arak for their families and friends according to secretly kept recipes and then the still was lent to their subjects as a sign of generosity.

In Lebanon, before the brandmania, owning a large arak still was a sign of success and sophistication (source: http://www.massaya.com/arak.aspx)

what in the world is arak? You know arak in arabic means sweat ,right?

 Arak is a Lebanese  aniseed-tasting liquor ; It has has many distilled-from-grapes cousins around the Mediterranean (Raki, sambuca, ouzo, pastis, etc etc).

The word arak also describes sweat in arabic, a parallel often drawn with the shimmering droplets that coagulate in the delivery tubes prior to the finished 53% proof product dripping out of the still.

I think this thread should be named "let´s be mediterranean for a week" instead of greek now that we are a bit off subject

ah ah sa7 5alas 3ereftoh! i just didnt know that thast what it was called!

I know about absinthe and anis addiction in France and Spain from the books of Ernest Hemingway. It seems all around the Mediterranean, there is a certain type of anis drink.

One grape distillate which I find superior in taste to others is grappa. It tastes and smells like raisins.

The problem is, grappa is not sold here or maybe I am not aware of a place where it is sold. Just a glass of it after a meal feels very nice.

Absinthe is in a different league!!!  It had included "wormwood" which was a hallucinate.  It is said that without absinthe being in Paris during such a creative time, we would never have had the impressionist movement, as most artists and writers were completely addicted to it!!!!  It was to the early part of the century, what LSD was to the 1960s.

It was banned for many years, but has since be re-launched without the addictive drug (wormwood)

You are very very right on that one!  I have tried it and it numbs your mouth!  It is a killer at 90% proof.  If you ever watch Moulin Rouge there is a poster somewhere in the back ground advertising it.  Lethal stuff!!! and never again.................

I think the real absinthe is even forbidden in the Netherlands, because it is too dangerous. One sip too much and..................

I never knew it was forbidden until last summer when I went to buy it at tax free for Kadir, but they told me you could only get the ´weaker´ versions.

I have also never seen grappa in Turkey either, even Italian restaurants generally dont have it as far as Ive noticed. I really love that too, but I can´t drink the ones that have more than 50% alcohol. I think grappa goes to as about 60 or maybe even 70. It has a distinct and lovely taste though and it is great in espresso as well.

Surprized. I always thought the Netherlands is a place where alcohol and narcotics addictions are considered as part of personal freedoms. Does it make sense to allow weed and curb absinthe

Having said that when I used to smoke, I would occasionally roll a Drum or Samson can´t remember which one tasted better.

I believe I know almost all the curse phrases in Dutch, courtesy of a nasty friend who was raised in Holland.

 It is not banned any more, the brewing? of it has changed as theAenigma "fountain of all knowledge" posted above 

 Only about alcohol

 The ban was lifted in 2004 (after it had been prohibited for nearly 100 years), but the absinth that is sold in here now, is not comparable to the one sold in eastern European countries or so it is said (where apparantly Dutch tourists go to to get their stock?). Also the percentage of alcohol of absinth I have seen in most alcohol stores here is quite ´low´.

 Hehe. Can you please confirm my personal thought that Turkish curse phrases are much ruder than ours?

 The main difference is that it does not include a hallucinetic drug anymore

 Yeah I know but actually I was mainly referring to the high percentage of alcohol

Btw the Dutch lift of the ban seems very late?? Maybe they should have wait a bit more since our youth is drinking itself to coma for fun.

 Well, Turkish curse phrases tend to be very sophisticated and creative but in the wrong direction of course.

Another thing about them is that they are not possible to translate. As for Dutch swear phrases, they are pretty straight forward - at least the ones I know. They sound very funny to me. Especially the one that goes like "plur tagi zeup jo"  The spelling is surely wrong...

Pleur toch eens op joh. (Take a hike, get lost). It´s not really bad, there are worse....  

Vineyards, you also know all the meanings of all your cursings and name-callings?

 I doubt if I would have gotten that one!

Yes, it isnt really bad. I could nearly imagine my mom saying it   Actually I relaly think that we curse rather politely. I still get annoyed by Turkish curse phrases, (for example when watching a match or when in the traffic), I am sure they are no longer seen for its meaning (among the young population, whod obviously not use it next to their ´bigger ones´ , but just have become ´general curse phrase´, but as a foreigner I automatically translate it, and they are very rude.

 Yes, but this is not a proper place of course

Thanks for the translation by the way. I think Dutch is a very funny sounding language (in the positive sense) I don´t know where you got that voiced velar plosive : "g".

You can´t imagine the curse phrases I keep overhearing from young girls. I can´t believe in my ears. Can Yucel was known for his blatant cursing and true, he was an unorthodox person to say the least. Nevertheless, not only was he a good chap but he was also a very good chat companion who would speak with perfect strangers about poetry and politics. His father was an icon statesman and took up a very important place in the cultural awakaning of Anatolia after the declaration of the republic. He was so much under influence of his. He was a very political person. I don´t know how I managed to switch to Can Yucel though.

That ´g´ is not so hard to pronounce. Just imagine trying to get rid of some phlegm and spitting on the floor....  

 I remember that sometimes I had a throatache from talking too much in class in primary cshool Especially after the weekends or holidays where I hadnt seen my friends much and thus talked less.

Yes, I believe I can do that. I practiced saying  Van Gogh. Especially when you repeat Gogh part several times people begin to think you are a pervert.

Try this tonguebreaker Vineyards:

Als in Graven graven gravengraven graven, graven graven gravengraven.

When in Graven dukes are digging dukesgraves, dukes are digging dukesgraves. (Or something like that.)

What about these:

Zehn Ziegen ziehen zehn Zentner Zement zum Zahnarzt, zum zementieren zerbrochener Zähne

Ten goats draw ten hundredweights cement to the dentist, to cement broken teeth.

Konstantinopolitanischeduddelsackpfeifenröhrlifabrikantentochter 
Daughter of the manufacturer of Constantinople bagpipe pipes

und of course :

Many years ago, an East German girl told me this:

Fischer´s Fritze fischt frische Fische, frische Fische fischt Fischer´s Fritze.

Turkish tongue twisters sound relatively innocent but still difficult :

Þemsi Paþa pasajinda dili büzüþesiciler

Those whose tongues (I wish) will get puckered at Þemsi Paþa (usually covered) passageway

Dal kalkar kartal sarkar kartal kalkar dal sarkar.

Twig goes up the eagle dangles the eagle lifts off the twig gives.

These English sounding phrases actually mean something in Turkey, guess what.

- I run each teen me?  / Did you drink ayran
- A wet each team.      / Yes I drank
- I run each make is tea your sun each.  / Drink, if you want to drink ayran.
- Catch bar duck each teen?  /How many glasses of it did you drink
- On bar duck each team.  / I drank ten glasses of it
- Why high one why!   / Whoa, bastard

Source: High school web sites.

 One glass of wine too many perhaps?? 

This is hilarious! I remember a sentence in English used to teach English people to curse in Polish. Never say "Tea, who you yeah bunny" in Poland while talking to someone

Well, I barely remember when I was drunk last time. Me and a friend had drunk 2 and a half bottles of tequila together and went on to drink three large glasses of beer for celebration. I remember asking for the third bottle from the barman and drinking it up. I actually said good bye world before sleeping.

These days, I always drink just one bottle and I never get drunk on it

 Yeah, me either!! 

You guys are reminding the movies:

A crowd and GG is getting up and saying: ´hi...I am GG and I am an alcholic´

and the crowd goes all together : ´hello GG´

 No canim, that was YOUR line but you were too drunk to remember!