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Use of the -sene tense
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| 1. |
29 Aug 2006 Tue 10:49 pm |
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Does the -sene imperative tense simply form a more polite form of the normal verbal imperative or is there more to it than just that.
For example, what is the difference between these two:
Bugün senden yürüme git
Bugün senden yürüme gitsene
Today you go for a walk
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| 2. |
29 Aug 2006 Tue 11:13 pm |
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Quote: Does the -sene imperative tense simply form a more polite form of the normal verbal imperative or is there more to it than just that.
For example, what is the difference between these two:
Bugün senden yürüme git
Bugün senden yürüme gitsene
Today you go for a walk
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First, the correct translations must be:
Bugün (sen) yürüyüşe git.
Bugün (sen) yürüyüşe gitsene.
The sense in the second sentence is between request and order (adding -e /-a to the verbal imperative conveys the sense of something between strong request and order), while it is an absolute order in the first sentence.
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| 3. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 12:03 am |
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Quoting qdemir: First, the correct translations must be:
Bugün (sen) yürüyüşe git.
Bugün (sen) yürüyüşe gitsene. |
Can you explain how yürüyüşe is formed?
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| 4. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 12:13 am |
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"yürüyüş" is the noun stem and as you know -e is the case suffix.
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| 5. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 12:17 am |
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Quoting qdemir: "yürüyüş" is the noun stem and as you know -e is the case suffix. |
Why can't the verbal noun "yürüme" not be used here instead of "yürüyüs"?
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| 6. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 12:24 am |
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Quote: Why can't the verbal noun "yürüme" not be used here instead of "yürüyüs"? |
Sometimes you ask hard questions, bod 
"Yürüyüş" means going out for a walk in that sentence.
If it had meant walk we would have used the verbal noun "yürüme" as you have said above.
Yürümeye başla. (start walking)
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| 7. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 12:43 am |
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Quoting qdemir: Sometimes you ask hard questions, bod |
I will take that as an immense compliment 
Hopefully this is an easier question
Is yürüyüş formed like this:
yürü-y-üş
verb stem + buffer consonant + -üş suffix???
If so, what is the -üş suffix?
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| 8. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 12:49 am |
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-ış, -iş, -uş, -üş
This is a suffix that builds permanent nouns out of verbs. It doesn't apply to every verb.
examples:
gitmek (to go) > gidiş (deperature)
bakmak (to look) > bakış (glance)
yürümek (to walk) > yürüyüş ('a walk' as in 'take a walk')
gülmek (to smile) > gülüş (a smile, the smile)
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| 9. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 12:57 am |
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Quote: Hopefully this is an easier question
Is yürüyüş formed like this:
yürü-y-üş
verb stem + buffer consonant + -üş suffix???
If so, what is the -üş suffix? |
verb stem + buffer consonant + -üş suffix??? = right
-iş is a suffix which is used to produce nouns from verb roots or stems: yürü-y-üş (you know the wovel harmony here).
gülmek >gül-üş
okumak >oku-y-uş
giyinmek > giyin-iş
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| 10. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 01:08 am |
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Some examples:
gidişin yaktı beni
gülüşÃ¼n kor gibi aklımda
o susuşun
bakıp bakıp duruşun...
kuşların ötüşÃ¼
yağmurun yağışı
güneşin batışı
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| 11. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 08:30 am |
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Quoting erdinc: -ış, -iş, -uş, -üş
This is a suffix that builds permanent nouns out of verbs. It doesn't apply to every verb.
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What do you mean by "it doesn't apply to every verb"? I would say the opposite. I cannot imagine how you cannot apply it to a verb.
Give me one example.
Look at my examples
Saat 3'te oraya gidemeyişimiz buna neden oldu.
Aniden çıkıp geliverişi hoş bir sürpriz oldu.
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| 12. |
30 Aug 2006 Wed 11:09 am |
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Let's take the examples given by caliptrix.
These ones are permanent nouns (kalıcı isim):
Quoting caliptrix:
gidişin yaktı beni
gülüşÃ¼n kor gibi aklımda
o susuşun
bakıp bakıp duruşun... |
His second part is different than the first.
These ones are noun modifications (belirtili isim tamlaması :
kuşların ötüşÃ¼
yağmurun yağışı
güneşin batışı
It is not possible to derive permanent nouns from all imperatives.
For instance, there are permanent nouns such as 'gidiş, gülüş, bakış, çıkış,' etc. but these not permanent nouns: 'yazış, uyuyuş, düşÃ¼nüş, yapış, batış, söyleyiş, yüzüş' etc.
The noun modifications don't necessarily have a permanent noun.
The -iş suffix in noun modification is different.
For instance these two "yağış" are not the same:
Bugün çok yağış var.
Yağmurun yağışı dinmedi.
These two "çıkış" are different:
Çıkışı bulamıyorum.
Adamın fırlayıp öyle bir çıkışı oldu ki hepimiz şaşırdık.
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| 13. |
31 Aug 2006 Thu 07:01 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix: Some examples:
gidişin yaktı beni
your leaving enraged me??
gülüşÃ¼n kor gibi aklımda
your smile seemed bright red, (Maybe made me blush)??
o susuşun
her silence??
bakıp bakıp duruşun..
the end of the search??
kuşların ötüşÃ¼
bird song??
yağmurun yağışı
rainfall??
güneşin batışı |
the sunset??
Not sure I understand,
could we have a translation please
:-S
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| 14. |
31 Aug 2006 Thu 07:11 pm |
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Quoting qdemir: Quote: Does the -sene imperative tense simply form a more polite form of the normal verbal imperative or is there more to it than just that.
For example, what is the difference between these two:
Bugün senden yürüme git
Bugün senden yürüme gitsene
Today you go for a walk
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First, the correct translations must be:
Bugün (sen) yürüyüşe git.
Bugün (sen) yürüyüşe gitsene.
The sense in the second sentence is between request and order (adding -e /-a to the verbal imperative conveys the sense of something between strong request and order), while it is an absolute order in the first sentence. |
İ don't believe i understand the sene-imperative tense
How do we form it?
İs it imperative and we add kişi eki to it ? or what suffix do we use ?
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| 15. |
31 Aug 2006 Thu 07:40 pm |
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I believe the "sene" "sana" sense can best be understood as the "will you", "won't you" in English.
I have heard it used in, say a cafe when some one comes in and sees someone they know, start to chat and the seated person will say "otursana" "won't you sit down"
I have also heard it used (a lot!) when my husband is talking to our son eg "baksana" "dinlesene" at these times its meaning seems to be more like "WILL YOU PAY ATTENTION/LISTEN TO ME!!" as you would speak to a child who isn't paying attention in English.
So some times the meaning is a polite request with a hint of not understanding say why the person is still standing, as in the first example, and sometimes an instruction with a degree of annoyance as in the second example.
Etty
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| 16. |
31 Aug 2006 Thu 07:49 pm |
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Ohh ty Etty,
İ understood the meaning now,
But what is its form ?
Eylem + kişi eki + (a,e) ??
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| 17. |
31 Aug 2006 Thu 08:10 pm |
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I think, but could be wrong, the correct use with the other pronouns would be
oturayım I'll sit down
otursun let him sit down
oturalım let's sit down
no idea about 'them' maybe otursunlar???
Etty
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| 18. |
31 Aug 2006 Thu 11:17 pm |
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Greetings,
All the verb conjugations mentioned here so far are covered in winmekmak.
You can see the tense, suffixes, translations of the conjugations. There is no other program that can recognize a verb conjugation (*). Also winmekmak is for free. I have also worked on its last update.
1. open this page:
http://www.ipb.nu/winmekmak/
2. scroll down and find the link for the last version (0.2 . Click on the link and save the program somewhere on your computer (for instance to "my documents" or "desktop".
3. After you have downloaded the program start it and press the F3 key on your keyboard.
4. Type a conjugation such as otursana, oturayım, otursun, etc. and press enter.
(*) Other programs work only the regular way. You give the infinitive and they tell you the conjugations.
For instance you enter "oturmak" (to sit) and they tell you "oturmayacağım" (I will not sit) is the future tense, negative conjugation for first person singular.
But with winmekmak you can enter "oturmayacağım" or any possible conjugation (with F3 key) and ask what it is.
Check a list of most sources on this topic:
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_6212
Compare #2 and #21 for instance.
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