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Atatürk
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1. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 05:33 am |
Today is the anniversary of Atatürk's death. Let's see how much we know about him and his contributions to present Turkey, which he founded after the WWI. His statues are virtually everywhere you go, he's the single most revered national hero.
Atatürk was the millitary commander under whose leadership Turkey became an independent country in 1923. He was also the first president for 15 years.
It's him who secularized Turkey, changed the alphabet to latin and introduced tons of revolutionary changes in the society (including giving rights to women). I can't think of many more people in the world history who were even closely as influential, brilliant, charismatic and ahead of their times as Atatürk. He literally changed the course of the history.
Some argue that because the social and political changes were imposed on the society (as opposed to the society developing on its own), people didn't fully embrace them. Also, he introduced the idea of nationalism into the Turkish society.
For more information, you can check out:
http://www.ataturk.com/
http://www.answers.com/topic/mustafa-kemal-atat-rk
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 11:11 am |
Thank you for reminding us Catwoman What an amazing man. Here are some of his most famous quotations:-
"In order to stave off covetouness, greed, and spite, citizens world over must be educated".
"We do not consider our principles as dogmas contained in books said to come from heaven. We derive our inspiration, not from heaven, or the unseen world, but directly from life".
"It was when I entered the military preparatory school and put on its uniform, that a feeling of strength came to me, as if I had become master of my own destiny".
"My people are going to learn the principles of democracy the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will, every man can follow his own conscience provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him act against the liberty of his fellow men".
"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives.. you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours.. You the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears. Your sons are now living in our bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well"
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 11:42 am |
Quoting aenigma x: Thank you for reminding us Catwoman What an amazing man. Here are some of his most famous quotations:-
"In order to stave off covetouness, greed, and spite, citizens world over must be educated".
"We do not consider our principles as dogmas contained in books said to come from heaven. We derive our inspiration, not from heaven, or the unseen world, but directly from life".
"It was when I entered the military preparatory school and put on its uniform, that a feeling of strength came to me, as if I had become master of my own destiny".
"My people are going to learn the principles of democracy the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will, every man can follow his own conscience provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him act against the liberty of his fellow men".
"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives.. you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours.. You the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears. Your sons are now living in our bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well"
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what wise and beautiful words he had..may he rest in peace
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4. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 11:43 am |
Quoting robyn : what wise and beautiful words he had..may he rest in peace
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+1 They are beautiful eh?
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 12:00 pm |
Quoting aenigma x: Quoting robyn : what wise and beautiful words he had..may he rest in peace
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+1 They are beautiful eh? |
especially the last quote about accepting all in turkey's 'bosom'..if only more people thought like ataturk..i know that certainly doesn't happen in the majority of the uk
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 01:40 pm |
Incredible what he achieved in such a short period of time.I am surprised there has not been more response to this thread but I suppose people nowadays tend to forget their history.
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 01:54 pm |
I had never heard of Atatürk until I joined this site! :-S And I have since learnt a great deal both about Turkey and Atatürk. I can't remember learning about Turkey at school only in geography, except I had this notion about Constantinople (loved the word) being a fascinating place and I found out later in life, why I had this fascination - my grandmother was half Turkish!
Yes he acheived a great deal for Turkey and it's people - and think that his model could be well used in other parts of the world too!
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 01:56 pm |
Quoting Joey: Incredible what he achieved in such a short period of time.I am surprised there has not been more response to this thread but I suppose people nowadays tend to forget their history. |
I agree with you about his achievements, but I dont necessarily agree that people forget their history. Today, of all days, is not only the anniversary of the death of Ataturk, but Armistice Day and I, for one, do not forget that.
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 02:01 pm |
Quoting catwoman: For more information, you can check out:
http://www.ataturk.com/
http://www.answers.com/topic/mustafa-kemal-atat-rk |
Thank you for the links, Catwoman. You have whetted my appetite and will read his biography.
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 03:15 pm |
...indeed, Catwoman, thank you so much for the links! ...most interesting in my opinion!
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 04:05 pm |
as this topic is to speak about attaturk
i want to say the opion of arabs and muslums in all muslum contries except turkey about him ( i know maybe all my turkish friends may get angry with me as they see him as the father of turk)
here in egypt if u ask some one or any one about him he will say :the angre of god upon him....
here all muslums consider him a very bad person who made bad think he distroy the islamic collection and made the islamoc contry into many small weak contries
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 04:44 pm |
Quoting yusuf : as this topic is to speak about attaturk
i want to say the opion of arabs and muslums in all muslum contries except turkey about him ( i know maybe all my turkish friends may get angry with me as they see him as the father of turk)
here in egypt if u ask some one or any one about him he will say :the angre of god upon him....
here all muslums consider him a very bad person who made bad think he distroy the islamic collection and made the islamoc contry into many small weak contries |
So, yet again, religion is the problem. It is not about the country, or the man's achievements, it is about religion and power? Offfffffff ya
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 04:55 pm |
Quoting aenigma x:
So, yet again, religion is the problem. It is not about the country, or the man's achievements, it is about religion and power? Offfffffff ya  |
Still.. Yusuf said something that draws attention. I think as the Ottoman people probably thought the same about the İslam that time as the Egyptians nowadays still do, that this means that the changes came through by the usage of a lot of violence. It must have been a hard time for a lot of people. If you ask me, it is not only gold that is shining in his biography.
Nevertheless I hung the Turkish flag with picture of Atatürk on it that Narlıdere Belediyesi gave me on my balcony yesterday. Because though it probably wasnt that fun to live in the time Atatürk changed and developed the country, the changes were probably for the best.. cos look what has become of Türkiye
By the way, that last quote is very impressive. Wonderful.
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 05:10 pm |
Wow, such an interesting thing you said Esther. We talked about something very similar in my ethics class last week. The question is - what is the right thing to do - to respect people's desires (to do something harmful to themselves, or not do something that is good for them) or to impose on them the things that they don't realize that are good for them.
It's such a controversial question and so hard to answer clearly.
However, I admire Ataturk for his mind, talent, ideas. I'm not exactly happy about the bloodshed that he caused. But then again, it was wartime and I'm scared to think what Turkey would be like if it wasn't just for this one man - Ataturk.
The reason why Muslims hate Ataturk is because he secularized Turkey and got rid of religious power.
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 05:12 pm |
Quoting catwoman: However, I admire Ataturk for his mind, talent, ideas. I'm not exactly happy about the bloodshed that he caused. But then again, it was wartime and I'm scared to think what Turkey would be like if it wasn't just for this one man - Ataturk.
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This is why I hung out that flag after all
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 07:37 pm |
Atatürk may well be the greatest leader of the 20th century, of any country in the world.
It was suggested that maybe history, or his people have forgotten about him, because of the lack of response in this thread. But what can you say about this great man? There is too much to supply in a single thread. No people in the world revere their leader the way the turks revere Atatürk.
"I don't ask you to fight today, I ask you to die today."
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 07:52 pm |
Quoting yusuf : here in egypt if u ask some one or any one about him he will say :the angre of god upon him....
here all muslums consider him a very bad person who made bad think he distroy the islamic collection and made the islamoc contry into many small weak contries |
This is nonsense first of all. Most arab countries chose to live under British rule as opposed to Ottoman rule during the 1800's. The fall of the Osmans happened over the course of one hundred years. The fall of the Osman Empire cannot be blamed on Mustafa Kemal. The Young Turks are as much to blame as anyone for the empire, but you also have to blame the padişa's themselves for ineffective governing. The fate of the Osman Empire was sealed long before WWI and its alliance with Kaiser Wilhelm and the Germans.
Ataturk saved his land, he saved his people. By the end of World War I, the plan was to tear apart what is now Turkey and divide it amongst the Russians, Greeks, French, British among others. Turkey would have been only a small nation in central Anatolia. Without Istanbul. Without Izmir. Without any of the coastal cities on the Agean or Mediterranean Seas.
Again I say, no one man is more responsible for the well being and destiny of his people than Ataturk.
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11 Nov 2006 Sat 08:07 pm |
@ Keith: thanks for this information, I did not know that part of history.
@ yusuf: it is nonsens - I agree with Keith - to say that ALL muslims hate Ataturk. As if all muslims feel and think the same. Haven't you heard about the great differences in the several movements of islam? No bigger difference between a member of muslim brothers and an Aleviet (not to mention all the other sorts).
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12 Nov 2006 Sun 11:59 am |
I find it amazing that even when Atatürk is criticized we get little response from turkish members.This seems to back up my original thoughts
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12 Nov 2006 Sun 12:25 pm |
Quoting Joey: I find it amazing that even when Atatürk is criticized we get little response from turkish members.This seems to back up my original thoughts |
What are those original thoughts Joey?
We know who he is? The fact is there are people who love him (me included) and there are those who don't (we know them well). What's the point of exchanging a tit for tat?
He is THE BEST THING ever happened to Turkish nation.
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13 Nov 2006 Mon 04:08 pm |
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