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Sad news from Turkey
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| 10. |
19 Jan 2007 Fri 08:30 pm |
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kaddersokak, don't misunderstand me.
Western colonialism is no better (if not worse). I personally have no issue on how the Osmans ruled. By most accounts, Istanbul was very open to Christians and Jews during Osman rule. I am only pointing out that the Kurds, Armenians and Arabs have always favored self-rule as opposed to outside rule, Osman or otherwise.
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| 11. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 12:59 am |
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Quote: I am only pointing out that the Kurds, Armenians and Arabs have always favored self-rule as opposed to outside rule, Osman or otherwise. |
KeithL,
How do you know that 'the Kurds, Armenians and Arabs have always favored self-rule as opposed to outside rule, Osman or otherwise' ? Are you a historian? How many books did you study for giving such a comment on Ottoman History?
Do you think that English Agent Lawrence had gone to Arabia just for a nice trip, or to propagandize English policies, and to spread enemity on Arabs towards Turks? What Americans do in Irak in these days? Are they bringing peace to the country, or seperating the Iraki people as Sunni Arabs, Şii Arabs, Kurds etc? After seperating ad making them small parts, it is easy to colonize the country. Isn't it?
First,please, you should read the books on true history of Ottoman State and then critisize it.
Kaddersokak gave a bibliography on Ottoman history in his message above. Most of them are written western scholars. Maybe you can read and get true information about our past.
Regards.
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| 12. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 01:16 am |
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Since you asked, I've read nearly 20 books on the history of the Osmans. I have friends that have lineage to the Osmans for several hundred years. I have access to private, public and military libraries in Ankara, Istanbul and Edirne. I would never be so boastful as to call myself an expert. But for the purposes of this board, I think I am well informed. If you want to proclaim yourself smarter than me, so be it.
But since my statements really havent been very provacative, I would guess you may be a bit close-minded in your outlook.
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| 13. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 02:07 am |
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Quote: 1. I don't want to proclaim myself smarter than you. I just say that 'let's be objective!'
2. You say 'I personally have no issue on how the Osmans ruled.', but on the other hand, you go on saying 'I am only pointing out that the Kurds, Armenians and Arabs have always favored self-rule as opposed to outside rule, Osman or otherwise.' Do you think, are there any logic in these arguments? Do they give same message? If you '...personally
have no issue on how the Osmans ruled.', why you judge it's policies towards the Kurds, Armenians and Arabs?
3. And for this judgement of yours about our history, should I thankfull or gratefull to you?
4. I haven't used any insulting word towards your personality, but you called me as 'close-minded'. I just return that adjective to you.
But since my statements really havent been very provacative, I would guess you may be a bit close-minded in your outlook. |
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| 14. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 05:20 am |
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Let me say that I am pro-turk, not necessarily pro-osman. Mismanagement in the 1800's caused the problems that led to the Young turk movement being necessary in the first place. I think Turkey should be governed exactly the way Ataturk outlined it.
That said, if the Armenians didnt want self-rule, they would not have allied with the Russians. The kurds to this day want self-rule as Ocalan and his band of thieves perform their evil.
The Arabs didnt need the British to fuel their hatred for the Turks. The British only gave the arabs the strength to resist.
Show me anywhere, in any book, where these peoples enjoyed being ruled by the Osmans.
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| 15. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 11:17 am |
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| 16. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 11:28 am |
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Quoting Trudy: and also said that Kurdish separatist group PKK is a terrorist organisation. [/I] |
The PKK are exactly that...
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| 17. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 02:17 pm |
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| 18. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 02:28 pm |
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unfortunately all kurds loves pkk http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/kultursanat/5792693.asp?m=1&gid=112&srid=3432&oid=3
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| 19. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 02:33 pm |
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Quoting CARTEL: unfortunately all kurds loves pkk http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/kultursanat/5792693.asp?m=1&gid=112&srid=3432&oid=3 |
I cannot read this link but I don't believe your statement.
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| 20. |
20 Jan 2007 Sat 02:35 pm |
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Quoting CARTEL: unfortunately all kurds loves pkk http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/kultursanat/5792693.asp?m=1&gid=112&srid=3432&oid=3 |
That is a downright lie. How on earth have you come to that conclusion?
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