I want to make a comment about the racist abuse that frequently goes on in the chat room – always by the same 2 or 3 people who I could name but don't think I need to as I am sure most people know who they are. I think we non-Turks are quite aware of Turkish feelings toward the PKK (for which they have very good reasons) but does this give these people the right to verbally attack any Kurdish person who happens to venture onto the site? Quite obviously I don't have enough Turkish to follow everything that's said but the vitriolic nature of the comments is obvious - even to someone with a minimal grasp of the Turkish language – and many comments are made in English so leave us in no doubt as to what is going on.

I don’t know how many people witnessed last night's confrontation – as I did – from outside the chat room. This seemed to be more of a two-way 'discussion' than usual but soon got totally out of control until the intervention of two of the more obviously intelligent and certainly less belligerent members of TC calmed the situation down a bit. Politics and religion are supposedly no-go areas in TC and posts in the forums have been removed and members given warnings for this reason – so why are they deemed acceptable in the chat room? I think admin and the moderators need to keep a closer eye on what goes on in there.

We are supposed to have freedom of speech in the UK but if anyone was heard to verbally abuse a member of another ethnic group in this way they could face serious consequences. For many years the UK was under attack from the IRA and recently from Muslim extremist terrorists – however no right-thinking person is going to abuse every Irish or Muslim person they come across as a 'bomber' or 'terrorist'. Yet, seemingly, to some Turks, every member of the Kurdish race is seen as a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer although not all of them make their feelings quite so clear in quite such an unpleasant way. If you question this attitude the answer is usually 'You're not Turkish - you wouldn't understand'.

Well okay, I'm not and maybe I don't but if these people want a platform for racial abuse and harassment could they please find it somewhere else and not on this site which – in case they’ve forgotten - is supposed to be for people who want to improve their LANGUAGE skills and would maybe also like to enjoy a pleasant multi-national chat from time to time without feeling they are in the middle of a race war.

+ 100000 etc. Lady in Red, you said it so well!

I was watching as well and I witnessed it!

I couldn't agree with you more LIR! Nor could I have expressed it so well. I have witnessed many ugly conversations in the chat room too, not just racism but disgusting 'chat' about other TC members here too.

It needs close moderating...

When you see such conversations in the chat room, please copy the conversation text in the chat room and send it to me in a private message or through the contact page.

Conversations in the chat room are not stored in the system, so I can't go back and look at past conversations. Please report to me any abuse of the chat room or the website in general. Racism will definitely not be tolerated.

I also missed last nights racial argument but nevertheless I have seen my fair share and also been attacked too. All I can say is that I agree with LIR 100%!!!
Quite frankly it's rediculous!

Also when people talk in another languages other than English or Turkish please can they not be shouted at for it.

e.g.
"THIS IS A TURKISH WEBSITE LOOK ABOVE OR ARE YOU BLIND!?!"

Yes it is true, this is a Turkish website for learning Turkish or even Turks use it for learning English but there are other nationalities trying to learn these languages as well!
In chat there have been Spanish, Polish, Russians, Hungarians, English, Turkish, Arabs etc and they have all had conversation with others in their 1st language not just from the two nationalities (English and Turkish) and some people find it easier to learn another language whilst studying it in their own, not through another foreign language!
Dilara (I think) was helping Spanish people learn Turkish (had a forum on it) because it was easier for them to understand it and she got great thanks for it because it helped them a lot. So yes it may be a Turkish learning class but come on! people are learning it from different languages!

I too witnessed this argument- if you can call it that - it was more a slanging match, the people involved may find this amusing and entertaining but i certainly do not. It spoils the pleasure of using this site.
I agree completely with the comments made by LIR (well said). Get these idiots off this site, so it can be used and enjoyed by us normal people.

Congratulations, gilly! This is your first post! So, welcome to TC!

Lady in red, my respect!
You said it so well!

RESPECT

then the 'victim' in all of this stated that he was and still does support the PKK group, thats when my pity waned drastically..

no,as most people know here, okkes is kurdish.I personally could not give two hoots about the whole kurdish/turkish debate but when it comes to people supporting TERRORIST groups that have murdered innocent civilians, children etc i have no sympathy, think of it whatever you will because I could never condone someone supporting groups such as PKK, Al Qaeda, IRA etc etc.

I always sympathized with the IRA as well as the INLA, till the IRA made the cease-fire agreement with the British troops. Hope there is no MI5 spy haunting this site!

God save Ireland (along with us) from British Imperialism!

Sorry, I deleted my post ! I am rambling and not making sense today.....I am.....Kai!!!!

(only joking Kai )

First, I must confess I did not witness the forum dicussion mentioned here, but after having read some exchanges of replies generated by certain topics, I must say that "understanding the other" is sometimes a problem here, raised by the lack of understanding of a simple thing: the main preocupation of those involved in a discussion should not lie in trying to change each other, radically and quickly; rather, it should lie in correctly interpreting the differences between us, standing up to these differences, and understanding them...

The difference is that the racist discussion took place in chat room NOT on the forum, juliacernat. When people post on the forum they put their name to their post and express their OPINION. I was not aware of any post recently where people were "trying to change each other, radically and quickly"??!?

my comment meant to be a call for understanding- or, at least for making an effort to understand each other-... and I think it could work both in the forum discussions and in the chat room

I think most people here do try to be understanding of cultural and religious differences. However, there will be some subjects which people feel very strongly about. Why should they have to tone down their opinion for the benefit of people who shy away from conflict? A difference of opinion does NOT have to mean disrespecting anothers views or attacking someone personally.

From my own personal stance, I always endeavour to start my posts with "I think" or "in my opinion" - I rarely claim my opinion to be 'fact'.

This is a discussion forum - are you suggesting we must not express our opinions or, must in some way make them less conflicting?

I was not trying to underestimate the difference of opinions or the expressing of ideas/feelings/thoughts, but I think an effort of understanding would help-in many cases-to avoid that an argumentative diffence of opinions turn into a clash of opinions.

Well, I "respect" your opinion and "understand" your reasons juliacernat, but admit I cannot be persuaded to change my mind on this! Surely you are not trying to "radically and quickly" do this?

In the interests of avoiding a "clash of opinions", notwithstanding my efforts to "understand", I think we should, in the spirit of good classmates, agree to differ !

it seems like it's hard enough to agree on how to approach this problem... never mind solving it .

whether considered the same or not ...they are both equally abhorent

Ok, ok... there are now two genuine questionees of this interesting question. Thanks for clarification Aenigma .

and the same thing occurred tonight with a different kurdish person(without involving pkk) surprise surprise.

This is how was racism is considered in the U.S. Racism in the U.S. is considered to be a dislike/negative concept of one person based on their ethnicity, which in turn leads to a refusal or denial of opportunities to advancement-jobs/education, inability to live comfortably-violence/harassment/threat of bodily harm. Racism has to do with power to keep an individual or group of individuals from pursuing their hopes, dreams, aspiration and from aquiring or maintaining basic rights and priviledges that members in other ethnic groups enjoy. So while we use racism interchangeably wtih prejudice or even ethnic hatred...until prejudice or ethnic hatred becomes a systematic action it is not racism.

That is my understanding of racism based on readings and lectures from Prof. Pedro Noguera former U.C. Berkely faculty. I am sure that others have defined it differently. Too, common usage has rendered these terms as synonyms. And as in all languages, terms and their connotations change from speaker to speaker year after year!