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Aorist / Present Continuous Question
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| 1. |
11 Mar 2007 Sun 01:46 pm |
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Is there a practical difference between:
Kahve ister misiniz
and
Kahve istiyor musunuz
If there is a difference, does it apply to all verbs when used with the interrogative particle?
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| 2. |
11 Mar 2007 Sun 02:47 pm |
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Quoting bod: Is there a practical difference between:
Kahve ister misiniz
and
Kahve istiyor musunuz
If there is a difference, does it apply to all verbs when used with the interrogative particle? |
Yup,
Practically they are of the same meaning.
But in details there are some nuances.
1.İstiyor musunuz ? is used in a continous process.
say; you are in a cafe and ordered a cake, the the waiter can ask you this question.
*It is not polite to start a conversation with this question.
*And it is also used to check if you want it NOW.
:: Do you want a coffee now?
2.İster misiniz is polite form of istiyor musunuz and also can be used to start a conversation.
Say; someone is willing to give coffee for free and you are there by chance  . So s/he can ask you this one.
*It doesn't carry the NOW information.(practically)
*So don't expect the service to be carried out at the moment.
*But since it is the polite form of istiyor musunuz?, you can have the service THEN(NOW) depending on the action if it is contious or not.
I hope I didn't confuse you more...
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| 3. |
11 Mar 2007 Sun 02:53 pm |
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Generally, aorist form is politer than progressive form.
Only in cases they are interchangeable though.
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| 4. |
11 Mar 2007 Sun 03:21 pm |
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You typically use the -r tense when offering something to someone, when stating that you're willing to help and generally when you're being polite
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| 5. |
11 Mar 2007 Sun 05:05 pm |
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Quoting SunFlowerSeed: I hope I didn't confuse you more... |
No - that makes lots of sense......
But another question!
Is the same true for all verbs that can be made into questions?
For example - what about these:
Bu resimden hoşlanır mısın?
Bu resimden hoşlanıyor musun?
Türkçe bilir misiniz?
Türkçe biliyor musunuz?
Bir sandalye oturur musun?
Bir sandalye oturuyor musun?
Türkçem anlar mısiniz?
Türkçem anlıyor musunuz?
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| 6. |
11 Mar 2007 Sun 09:56 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting SunFlowerSeed: I hope I didn't confuse you more... |
No - that makes lots of sense......
But another question!
Is the same true for all verbs that can be made into questions?
For example - what about these:
Bu resimden hoşlanır mısın?
Bu resimden hoşlanıyor musun?
Türkçe bilir misiniz?
Türkçe biliyor musunuz?
Bir sandalye oturur musun?
Bir sandalye oturuyor musun?
Türkçem anlar mısiniz?
Türkçem anlıyor musunuz?
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These are same but the first usages are weird
Weird: Bu resimden hoşlanır mısın? (but if there is a verb to do, it will be ok)
Ok: Bu resimden hoşlanıyor musun?
Weird: Türkçe bilir misiniz?
Ok: Türkçe biliyor musunuz?
This one can be a response, otherwise it is weird too:
Bir sandalyeye oturur musun?
This is a normal question:
Bir sandalyeye oturuyor musun?
the last one is a bit confusing too:
"anlar mısın?" has a special meaning. It means "are you good at something?" so if there is a sentence like you made, it should be this one:
Türkçemden anlar mısın?
But it is weird too because "your Turkish" is not something to be good.
"anlıyor musunuz" is the question. anlamak needs an /i/ word:
Türkçemi anlıyor musunuz?
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| 7. |
12 Mar 2007 Mon 05:57 am |
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Quoting SunFlowerSeed: Generally, aorist form is politer than progressive form.
Only in cases they are interchangeable though. |
As I said only in some cases they are interchangeable.
Caliptrix is right about that. Though, grammatically, all sentences are correct, meaning is not equal every time.
That's why they are called aorist and progressive tenses, not the-polite-tense and progressive tense. Some languages has polite tenses which is not connected with time, I mean you add time tense separately. Example:Korean.
We think aorist tense as a wide-range-in-time tense. You can use it to tell the things that are general.
Let's see some examples.
Bu resimden hoşlanır mısın? -This is not correct because you are pointing to a picture in real time(NOW) 'bu resim'. In aorist, hoşlanmak is used to express if you like it generally, so you have to specify something to make it wide-range-in-time tense(GENERAL).
Bu tarz resim(ler)den hoşlanır mısın?
Here tarz gives enough information for a wide-range-in-time sentence. Tarz = style/kind.
You are expecting a general idea from him about that
kind of picture. Which is not directly involved in that painting but the style of it.
or you can say 'Resimden hoşlanır mısın?' without pointing a special painting to get his idea if he likes to paint, see or talk about paintings. If you like know the action that he likes to, you'd better ask 'resim yapmaktan hoşlanır mısın?' or 'resim bakmaktan hoşlanır mısınız?' <-- that sounds weird though.
Bu resimden hoşlanıyor musun? -Grammatically correct- This is also not correct in the meaning. Hoşlanmak can be used in progressive tense for an action which is continuing at the moment of asking.
You need extra words to sound it correct.
Bu resimden hala hoşlanıyor musun?
Is your 'liking' still continues for this painting?
Benden hoşlanıyor musun? can be an exception in this manner.
You expect a wide-range-in-time answer which cannot be said as 'benden hoşlanır mısın?', it also carries the NOW information too.
You can also say 'resimden hoşlanıyor musun' in the meaning of 'resimden hoşlanır mısın'. But aorist is politer in this case.
If you want to get his idea about THIS picture, the correct way to ask that should be:
Bu resimden hoşlandın mı?'
The pointing(bu) means that the process is happening (NOW).
So the answer is in progressive too even it is said in past tense. 'Evet, hoşlandım' - 'Hayır, hoşlanmadım'.
Answers bring more questions...
I hope I didn't skip much.
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| 8. |
12 Mar 2007 Mon 12:19 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix: This is a normal question:
Bir sandalyeye oturuyor musun? |
Why the dative suffix?
I thought the /a/ suffix would make the question mean "are you in the process of sitting down on a chair?" whereas without the suffix the question means "are you already sitting on a chair?"
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| 9. |
12 Mar 2007 Mon 12:24 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting caliptrix: This is a normal question:
Bir sandalyeye oturuyor musun? |
Why the dative suffix?
I thought the /a/ suffix would make the question mean "are you in the process of sitting down on a chair?" whereas without the suffix the question means "are you already sitting on a chair?"
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Bir sandalyeye otururmusun?= Will u sit on a chair?
Bir sandalyeye mi oturacaksın?= Is it a chair which your gonna sit on?
Bir sandalyede oturuyormusun?= Are you sitting on a chair?
Bir sandalyede mi oturuyorsun?= Is it a chair you are sitting on?
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| 10. |
12 Mar 2007 Mon 12:43 pm |
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* slaps wrist *
I always forget that the interrogative particle doesn't have to come at the end of the question!!!
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| 11. |
12 Mar 2007 Mon 12:45 pm |
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Quoting bod: * slaps wrist *
I always forget that the interrogative particle doesn't have to come at the end of the question!!!
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A good way to remember...
"Post-it-Note on knickers" hehe dont take it off till u remember 
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| 12. |
12 Mar 2007 Mon 04:18 pm |
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Quoting gusel_kiz: "Post-it-Note on knickers" hehe dont take it off till u remember |
A post-it-note on who's knickers 
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| 13. |
13 Mar 2007 Tue 10:53 am |
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OK, let me check if I understood this right:
If I was asking something to someone in Turkish, and I couldn't understand the reply, I should ask:
Daha yavaş konuşabilir misiniz - can you speak a bit slower, using a polite request.
And if I wanted someone to speak English right now, and I wanted to ask that through a polite request, I'd have to say Ingilizce konuşabilir misiniz?. Here, I'd prefer to use the aorist tense because it's more common to use this one in combination with abil/ebil, right?
However, suppose I wanted to know if someone speaks English(is able to speak that language), I'd ask
Ingilizce konuşur musunuz? - because I don't want that person to speak English now, I just want to know if s/he is able to. If I said Ingilizce konuşuyor musunuz? it would sound something like "Are you speaking English (at this moment)?" Doğru mu?
I would really really appreciate it if someone told me if my babbling makes any sense  
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| 14. |
14 Mar 2007 Wed 12:00 am |
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Quoting Elisa:
However, suppose I wanted to know if someone speaks English(is able to speak that language), I'd ask
Ingilizce konuşur musunuz? - because I don't want that person to speak English now, I just want to know if s/he is able to. If I said Ingilizce konuşuyor musunuz? it would sound something like "Are you speaking English (at this moment)?" Doğru mu?
I would really really appreciate it if someone told me if my babbling makes any sense |
I think "İngilizce konuşur musunuz" looks like still as a request.
"İngilizce konuşabiliyor musunuz?" is the question of the ability of English language.
"İngilizce konuşuyor musun?" may mean both: the ability and the activity for now. By the way, all of these sentences can be used in some extraordinary conditionals. Who knows...
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