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cami - mevzu- a special case of nouns HELP
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| 1. |
27 Oct 2007 Sat 11:00 pm |
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Can somebody give some help with these group of nouns?
We are studying nouns that have "two stems", such as:
kitap - (kitab-)
renk - (reng-)
yatak - (yatağ
şehir - (şehr-)
And there is
cami - (cami'i)
mevzu - (mevzu'u)
nevi - (nev'-i)
I dont understand these last three: when are they used, what do they mean, how are they written (is the apostrophe and the - in the official spelling?)
The book writes only a small insignificant paragraph on it and I cant understand it. Some help would be much appreciated.
Thanks a lot!
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| 2. |
27 Oct 2007 Sat 11:23 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: Can somebody give some help with these group of nouns?
We are studying nouns that have "two stems", such as:
kitap - (kitab-)
renk - (reng-)
yatak - (yatağ
şehir - (şehr-)
And there is
cami - (cami'i)
mevzu - (mevzu'u)
nevi - (nev'-i)
I dont understand these last three: when are they used, what do they mean, how are they written (is the apostrophe and the - in the official spelling?)
The book writes only a small insignificant paragraph on it and I cant understand it. Some help would be much appreciated.
Thanks a lot! |
theses words is arabic orgion , not followed some turkish grammer ,i mean when adde to them suffix , ex: saa't -saa'tler not saatlar ....
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| 3. |
28 Oct 2007 Sun 11:02 am |
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Can somebody add suffixes to the words then? So that I can see how to spell the words 'when suffixed'?
I know that saat becomes saatler and how to write, but I cant figure out for the other 3 words.
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| 4. |
28 Oct 2007 Sun 01:15 pm |
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Assume that they are consonant ended and add the suffixes according to the vowel armony.
E.g.
Mevzu'u
Mevzu'umuz
etc.
However young generations do not care about it. And in daily speech they may become:
Mevzusu
Mevzumuz
etc.
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| 5. |
28 Oct 2007 Sun 03:23 pm |
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Quoting si++:
Mevzu'u
Mevzu'umuz
etc.
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Thanks!
So the ' is officially written, right?
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| 6. |
28 Oct 2007 Sun 09:05 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting si++:
Mevzu'u
Mevzu'umuz
etc.
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Thanks!
So the ' is officially written, right? |
Honestly, I am not sure but I think apostrophe is not for it. I see many examples like that but non of them has '
Süleymaniye Camii
Ekmek bayii
Şiir mısraı
Günün mevzuu
On the other hand, apostrophe is used for something different. In Arabic, there is a sign called "cezm". If there is a letter with "cezm" sign, the syllable which has the letter has to finish differently from which pronounced in Turkish.
For example,
in Arabic: Mes'ele
in Turkish: Mesele
It means topic/thread/subject in Turkish. But it comes from Arabic. According to the rules in Turkish, you have to pronounce it by the syllables like:
me-se-le
But in Arabic, as I wrote: Mes'ele:
mes-e-le
First you have to read until "s": mes
and then the rest is same as in Turkish: e-le
In order to show this difference, some resources put apostrophe, and we can understand where the syllables are separated. "mesele" is a word which is used in Turkish very much, so it was changed by time for the Turkish rules without a specific arrangement.
Another apostrophe usage is for the letter "ayn" in Arabic. If the syllable finishes by this letter "ayn", you have to stop immediately and maybe express it a bit mor than the others. For that reason, some books put "'" apstrophe where "ayn" finishes. "mevzu" could be the example of this one, but I cannot find a well-known example for this for now.
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| 7. |
28 Oct 2007 Sun 10:05 pm |
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Thank you caliptrix,i've enjoyed reading your explanation 
Btw,Mesele in arabic mean 'for example'
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| 8. |
29 Oct 2007 Mon 06:25 am |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting si++:
Mevzu'u
Mevzu'umuz
etc.
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Thanks!
So the ' is officially written, right? |
No it's not. I used it for illustration purpose to show that as if there were a consonant there.
However some people write it that way (incorrectly). For example google the following to compare the hits:
mevzuunda
mevzu'unda
Anyway, we have "konu" for "mevzu" and it's becoming more popular.
As for cami, I think we use it the Turkish way more and more.
"Camisi" instead of "camii" is not considered an incorrect usage and used also in written language.
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| 9. |
30 Oct 2007 Tue 04:02 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Thank you caliptrix,i've enjoyed reading your explanation
Btw,Mesele in arabic mean 'for example' |
Thank you, I thought there was a difference between mesela and mesele. We say "mesela" = "for example", but mesele sounds like topic or in another meaning: "problem"
Sizinle bir meseleyi görüşmek istiyorum.
"I want to talk a topic (problem) to you."
Or "sorun";
Gitmek bir mesele, gelmek başka mesele.
Going is a problem, coming is another problem.
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| 10. |
30 Oct 2007 Tue 10:02 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix: Quoting CANLI: Thank you caliptrix,i've enjoyed reading your explanation
Btw,Mesele in arabic mean 'for example' |
Thank you, I thought there was a difference between mesela and mesele. We say "mesela" = "for example", but mesele sounds like topic or in another meaning: "problem"
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caliptrix, you are right,
in arabic too we say :"mesela" (مثال ),which meaning "for example",
and " mes'ele " (مسألة ), meaning "problem"
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| 11. |
01 Nov 2007 Thu 02:03 am |
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Quoting caliptrix: Quoting CANLI: Thank you caliptrix,i've enjoyed reading your explanation
Btw,Mesele in arabic mean 'for example' |
Thank you, I thought there was a difference between mesela and mesele. We say "mesela" = "for example", but mesele sounds like topic or in another meaning: "problem"
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İ didnt know you have these word too
İ thought you just pronounce mesele with 'e' instead as we pronounce it with 'a'
İn that case ,yes you are right,and we use them same as you do.
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