Turkey |
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Secular Apartheid at Work
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1. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 12:44 am |
Secular Apartheid at Work
[Originally published in Turkish Daily News]
Mustafa Akyol
"Injustice anywhere," said Martin Luther King, "is a threat to justice everywhere." Therefore the world should learn and care about the story of Tevhide Kütük, the 17-year-old Turkish schoolgirl who just became the latest victim of Turkey's self-styled apartheid.
It all started several months ago in Kozan, a municipality in the southern city of Adana. The young and bright Tevhide, a student of the state-sponsored quasi-religious "Imam-Hatip" schools, heard about the essay contest that the Education Ministry launched to celebrate the annual Teacher's Day. She wrote a fine piece on the virtues of teaching, and submitted it to the organizing committee. Soon the jury decided that she was the best writer among all the other students in her hometown, and thus she deserved to win the award, which was a very modest present by all standards, but a very inspiring reward for a modest teenager.
VIP apparatchiks
On Nov. 28, Teacher's day, Tehvide, along with other winners in poetry and painting, was invited to a ceremony at the town hall. She, of course, accepted the invitation and showed up on that day with all her enthusiasm. After some boring speeches by the usual dignitaries, the winners of the contests were called to the stage. With joyful music playing in the background, Tevhide cheerfully climbed the steps and exuberantly lined up with other kids in order to be congratulated and applauded.
Yet things were not destined to go right. In the VIP seats, there were a bunch of sinister men whose loyalty to tyrannical state principles exceeded their respect and care for human beings. The moment they saw Tevhide, they were shocked and abhorred. Because the little girl was wearing the Islamic headscarf! In official Turkey, that symbol only belongs to the untouchables, those who pollute the sacred soil of the secular republic with their offensive religious presence. Especially army commander, Major Hüseyin Çopur, and local governor, Aydın Tetikoğlu, were deeply affronted by this little girl who dared to break the rules of the caste system. The outlaw had to be punished, and law and order had to be restored.
So, after less than a minute that little Tevhide took stage, these two men – one in uniform, the other in unimind – took a quick measure to save the secular republic from her. "Take her down," they told their aides. And a man in a black suit approached Tevhide to whisper into her ear that she had to leave the stage immediately. She was shocked for a few seconds, and then rapidly moved away while bursting into tears.
Local TV cameras were shooting the whole event. Somewhere at the back, Tevhide cried for minutes and minutes, while her parents and friends tried to calm her down. But she neither calmed down nor decided to give up. She walked again toward the front seats, in order to speak to the VIP men. She stood right in front of the national education director. "Why don't you give me my award, my teacher," she asked. "This is a great injustice."
The "teacher" – a man with a thick mustache and apparently a thin conscience – just looked at her with a humiliating face. “No,†he ordered, “just get back to your seat!†There was nothing he could do, actually. As a loyal apparatchik, he was only following orders.
Tevhide, who was still crying, left the hall along with her family and many other people who reacted against this official injustice. Days have passed since that episode and the family says that the young girl is still very sad and they fear that she might get into depression. Even if she doesn't, she will probably remember this trauma for the rest of her life. And not just her, but millions of others in this country who cover their heads because their beliefs will continue to feel insulted and humiliated.
Shame, not happiness
The weekly humor magazine “Leman†has a great cover this week, with the title “The tears of a young girl†and a cartoon that shows the poor Tevhide being kicked by a huge army boot. (Leman is a secular magazine, by the way. It is just non-fascist. ) I think this caricature is a very accurate depiction of not just Tevhide's drama, but also the whole apartheid regime in this country, which is, despite all our democratic achievements, still intact.
[To see the cartoon: http://www.ilkhavadis.net/haberler/39488 ]
This has to end. Now is the time for freedom for all Turkish citizens, whatever their creed, langue and way of life may be. The unelected and self-appointed VIP's of Turkey have to accept a “freedom chart†similar to the one that their ilk in South Africa had to concede in the ‘90s. Enough is enough.
If they insist on preserving this system of organized injustice, then they will be undermining the very foundation of this country: The consent of the citizens. I have to admit that I am already shaky in that regard. I love Turkey with all its history, people, and culture, but I can't find a way to sympathize with its authoritarian state. It really doesn't help much to reiterate Atatürk's motto, “How happy is the one who says I am a Turk.†I do say that I am a Turk, but that hardly gives me happiness. In fact, when I see all the cruelties done in this country to its people by its sovereigns, it even gives me shame.
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2. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 01:05 am |
I remember reading the story from the online papers.
It is very sad and tragic.
I think all those state-sponsored quasi-religious "Imam-Hatip" schools should be closed immediately.
They do not suit this century.
They dont suit the modern life.
And then the army commander, major and whoever responsible should be banned from public offices.
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 01:19 am |
Quoting thehandsom: I remember reading the story from the online papers.
It is very sad and tragic.
I think all those state-sponsored quasi-religious "Imam-Hatip" schools should be closed immediately.
They do not suit this century.
They dont suit the modern life.
And then the army commander, major and whoever responsible should be banned from public offices. |
I am glad you are not one of those who have the right to rule in Turkey If you think those schools shoul be banned then you absolutely agree with the army commander.
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 01:31 am |
Quoting GatewaytoTR: Quoting thehandsom: I remember reading the story from the online papers.
It is very sad and tragic.
I think all those state-sponsored quasi-religious "Imam-Hatip" schools should be closed immediately.
They do not suit this century.
They dont suit the modern life.
And then the army commander, major and whoever responsible should be banned from public offices. |
I am glad you are not one of those who have the right to rule in Turkey If you think those schools shoul be banned then you absolutely agree with the army commander. |
I dont agree with the army commander AT ALL.
But those schools..OMG man, they are just brain washing machines!!
Taking pupils at the age of 11 and teach them one sided religion only is a good thing? are you saying that they are learning the science and everything necessary for education in those schools?
Of course they should be banned..
They should all be transfered to state schools.
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5. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 01:36 am |
How does the Turkish educational system differ from the European and the American one? Wish to know.
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6. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 01:41 am |
For example even in France, which is the most secular country in Europe, religious schools are allowed. The students are taught Catholic religion along with other subjects in those schools.
You do not have to like them but you can not just ban them if Turkey is a democratic country. You should respect differences.
By the way, it seems you do not like the Turkish army but you have a mentality as authoritarian as them.
Personally, I respect Turkish army because they are defending Turkey againts Kurdish seperatist terrorists despite their actions as ecplained in the article by Mr. Akyol.
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7. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 01:49 am |
Gateway - looks like you are a product of those religious schools. For the sake of turkish people, I'm glad that YOU are not making decisions.
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8. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:00 am |
These schools are a danger for a country that has so much potential.. as I said before, handsome, its a loss for them that you have left!
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9. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:04 am |
Quoting GatewaytoTR: For example even in France, which is the most secular country in Europe, religious schools are allowed. The students are taught Catholic religion along with other subjects in those schools.
You do not have to like them but you can not just ban them if Turkey is a democratic country. You should respect differences.
By the way, it seems you do not like the Turkish army but you have a mentality as authoritarian as them.
Personally, I respect Turkish army because they are defending Turkey againts Kurdish seperatist terrorists despite their actions as ecplained in the article by Mr. Akyol. |
I agree with you about the religious schools in France and the other countries like the UK.
But the quality of the teaching in those religious schools in turkey is laugable, so they are not compareable.
And also there is a slight difference in europe and christianity. Because christianity, long time ago left the idea of ruling the nations with religion. (please remember Henry the VIII) But islam on the other hand, because of the Ottoman Sultan was the caliphat as well, did not forget the idea of ruling the nations with religion, which we call it sheria. (although during ottomany period, having the religion and the kingdom in one hand, whereas in europe kingdom and religion divided their power, was useful)
So i dont think teaching 14 years (is it 11 or 14 years old now? I will check) old the idea 'sheria is islam, you are muslims etc' is particularly good for them. (I am still wondering if they teach darwin in those schools for example.if they do ..how? how does science fit into those lessons)
From my view, I want the best possible education for those kids. And state schools are better for them. Considering that they are young minds and vulnerable to ideas, the state should make the call and ban those schools for their future.
And I am sure you are very well know that those schools were banned by Ataturk. And in 1980's K Evren let them open. (it is the reason for example Fetullah Gulen said 'he will go to heaven' for Evren)
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:08 am |
what an interesting insight, thanks thehandsom. without an e.
Finding the inner Muslim prince
In the third of his Ramadan articles, Eric Walberg looks at the increasing attraction to Islam on the part of Westerners
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/864/cu6.htm
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11. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:19 am |
Well, if everybody agrees then you can close those schools and let state to decide what is good for the citizens of Turkey.
P.S. Catwoman, you are not funny at all.
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12. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:22 am |
Quoting Roswitha: thehandsom. without an e.
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I put an e because it bothers me that he doesnt have one
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13. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:29 am |
Quoting Deli_kizin:
I put an e because it bothers me that he doesnt have one  |
Me too...let's start a petition to make him add an "E"!!!
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14. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:31 am |
Quoting GatewaytoTR:
P.S. Catwoman, you are not funny at all. |
Uhhh, yeah...she is.
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:31 am |
Quoting GatewaytoTR: Well, if everybody agrees then you can close those schools and let state to decide what is good for the citizens of Turkey.
P.S. Catwoman, you are not funny at all. |
I think education is one of the services state should provide for its youngsters. And the education those kids are getting is not enough in those schools..
so the state is failing them in my view..
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:33 am |
Quoting girleegirl: Quoting Deli_kizin:
I put an e because it bothers me that he doesnt have one  |
Me too...let's start a petition to make him add an "E"!!! |
stop that girls..
It was all a tiny spelling mistake.. that is all..
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:36 am |
Quoting thehandsom: Quoting GatewaytoTR: Well, if everybody agrees then you can close those schools and let state to decide what is good for the citizens of Turkey.
P.S. Catwoman, you are not funny at all. |
I think education is one of the services state should provide for its youngsters. And the education those kids are getting is not enough in those schools..
so the state is failing them in my view.. |
yes that is your view and people do not have to agree with you. In fact, most people in Turkey do not because they have elected a person their prime minister for a second term who is a graduate of one of those schools.
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:45 am |
Quoting thehandsom: It was all a tiny spelling mistake.. that is all..
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I didnt mean it like that Its more my spelling mistake that I write it with an E!!
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19. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:50 am |
I heard that Erdoğan called the girl afterwards. All nice and well but did he call the girls who were forced into religious education and took it to court??!!
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20. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:53 am |
Quoting GatewaytoTR: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting GatewaytoTR: Well, if everybody agrees then you can close those schools and let state to decide what is good for the citizens of Turkey.
P.S. Catwoman, you are not funny at all. |
I think education is one of the services state should provide for its youngsters. And the education those kids are getting is not enough in those schools..
so the state is failing them in my view.. |
yes that is your view and people do not have to agree with you. In fact, most people in Turkey do not because they have elected a person their prime minister for a second term who is a graduate of one of those schools.
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Well..There are several elements why we still have an islamist as a prime minister. I dont want to go into those details.
But I want to say that Hitler came into power with election as well..Ama, It did not mean Fasizm was right. did it? Sometimes people's preference of voting does not mean that they are right about what they are saying..
Even if you are right that about 47% of turkish population want religious schools, then they are WRONG.
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 02:58 am |
Handsom lets meet!!! Look we are adviced to
This is a PM I just got:
I read your and thehandom's forum messages. you are very biased in same things I mean both of you are pro-Kurdish and pro-secularism and anti-religious freedom. you should get together and meet I think
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23. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 03:03 am |
Lets be biased
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25. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 03:05 am |
Dont laugh from outside catwoman!!
You are welcome to come to the meeting too (of course you should be pro-Kurdish and pro-secularism and anti-religious freedom)
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26. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 03:06 am |
Quoting thehandsom: Quoting GatewaytoTR: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting GatewaytoTR: Well, if everybody agrees then you can close those schools and let state to decide what is good for the citizens of Turkey.
P.S. Catwoman, you are not funny at all. |
I think education is one of the services state should provide for its youngsters. And the education those kids are getting is not enough in those schools..
so the state is failing them in my view.. |
yes that is your view and people do not have to agree with you. In fact, most people in Turkey do not because they have elected a person their prime minister for a second term who is a graduate of one of those schools.
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Well..There are several elements why we still have an islamist as a prime minister. I dont want to go into those details.
But I want to say that Hitler came into power with election as well..Ama, It did not mean Fasizm was right. did it? Sometimes people's preference of voting does not mean that they are right about what they are saying..
Even if you are right that about 47% of turkish population want religious schools, then they are WRONG.
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I will stop here. Because I believe in democracy and I respect the choice of Turkish people.
But I can say do not worry, Turkish army can defend you against any threat. Look how they are dealing with Kurdish seperatists terrorists.
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27. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 03:07 am |
Quoting thehandsom: You are welcome to come to the meeting too (of course you should be pro-Kurdish and pro-secularism and anti-religious freedom) |
Hadi gel canım!!! We can make a strong movement!
Like they said on the youtube film inside the mosque: they operate inside before taking over!!
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28. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 03:07 am |
Quoting thehandsom: Dont laugh from outside catwoman!!
You are welcome to come to the meeting too (of course you should be pro-Kurdish and pro-secularism and anti-religious freedom) |
I am not very funny, so all is left for me is to laugh at others...
(PM me where the meeting is)
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29. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 03:09 am |
Quoting GatewaytoTR: But I can say do not worry, Turkish army can defend you against any threat. Look how they are dealing with Kurdish seperatists terrorists. |
That's a good joke! Do not make fun of the turkish army's failures again!!!
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30. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 03:16 am |
Quoting catwoman: Do not make fun of the turkish army's failures!!!  |
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31. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:01 am |
Missionaries. traitors, deserters, PKK supporters are all having a ball !
There is something wrong here....
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32. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:04 am |
Quoting AlphaF: Missionries. traitors, deserters, PKK supporters all having a ball !
There is something wrong here.... |
The peanut's back. Why don't you actually make a life for yourself outside of this web site flapha? Nobody wants you?
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33. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:07 am |
Compare our respective contributions to this site. The question is why you are here?
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34. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:15 am |
Quoting AlphaF: Compare our respective contributions to this site. The question is why you are here? |
This is a very good, interesting question you could take some time off to ponder...
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35. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:18 am |
Catwoman,
I dont have time to waste with you.
I suggest you keep away from my posts, if you learn nothing from them...
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36. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:24 am |
Quoting AlphaF: Catwoman,
I dont have time to waste with you.
I suggest you keep away from my posts, if you learn nothing from them... |
What else do you have time for alpha, all you do here is wasting it!
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37. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:26 am |
I am not interested....
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38. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 12:05 pm |
Quoting AlphaF: Missionaries. traitors, deserters, PKK supporters are all having a ball !
There is something wrong here.... |
I wonder which one I am.
However, an advice to the writer: doing it against a wall of a mosque is not recommended!!!
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39. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 12:49 pm |
Quoting AlphaF: Missionaries. traitors, deserters, PKK supporters are all having a ball !
There is something wrong here.... |
... dont you have ball? i think there is something wrong with you
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41. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 03:05 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting ciko: ... dont you have ball? i think there is something wrong with you  |
I had a ball once, but my sister kicked it into next door's garden and would not get it back because she was scared of their dog
Life is so hard sometimes  |
well i didnt mean that kind of ball lucky that nobody understood it
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42. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 03:06 pm |
Quoting ciko: Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting ciko: ... dont you have ball? i think there is something wrong with you  |
I had a ball once, but my sister kicked it into next door's garden and would not get it back because she was scared of their dog
Life is so hard sometimes  |
well i didnt mean that kind of ball lucky that nobody understood it |
Durrrrrrrrrrrr I know you didn't mean THAT type of ball. I was being silly (it is permitted at lunchtimes)
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 04:52 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III:
I had a ball once, but my sister kicked it into next door's garden and would not get it back because she was scared of their dog
Life is so hard sometimes  |
Hey III, I think I found your ball.......
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_13_26927
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44. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 05:16 pm |
really not easy to understand that how come a healthy mind can be barrier front of innocent freedoms??And how come a someone's heart eyes can be blind for this tragic event.Friends world or life never our private ownerships and freedoms only not what we understood,pls a bit more tolerance....
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 05:17 pm |
Quoting GatewaytoTR:
P.S. Catwoman, you are not funny at all. |
OH Come on! She is usually funny every other Tuesday of months ending in "r".
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46. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 05:22 pm |
Are this quasi-religious schools run by the government? I think I missed something.
We have a lot of religious based schools here in the US but they are private schools. Public schools here are not allowed to promote religion in anyway. Just curious.
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47. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 05:50 pm |
Curious...has anyone here ever attended an imam hatip school? They are just as good as any other turkish school where students don't learn english either. I know several people who graduated from imam hatip schools and they have not been brainwashed in any way, in fact they are very grateful that they were given an education they otherwise may not have been able to receive.
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48. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:05 pm |
Quoting azade: Curious...has anyone here ever attended an imam hatip school? They are just as good as any other turkish school where students don't learn english either. I know several people who graduated from imam hatip schools and they have not been brainwashed in any way, in fact they are very grateful that they were given an education they otherwise may not have been able to receive. |
yes i had education in imam hatip school.. is there any question?
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49. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:18 pm |
Quoting ciko: Quoting azade: Curious...has anyone here ever attended an imam hatip school? They are just as good as any other turkish school where students don't learn english either. I know several people who graduated from imam hatip schools and they have not been brainwashed in any way, in fact they are very grateful that they were given an education they otherwise may not have been able to receive. |
yes i had education in imam hatip school.. is there any question?  |
Süper! So, ciko were you brainwashed at that evil, evil school?
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50. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:23 pm |
Its not only about evil. Its about the fact that government shouldnt support religiously based schools.
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51. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:24 pm |
To be honest I agree that pupils may be trained religious matters by the consent of their parents, but I believe it must not be during the standard curriculum.
It can be at weekends or summer time but standard curriculum must not be mixed too much with religious matters
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52. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:26 pm |
Quoting azade: Quoting ciko: Quoting azade: Curious...has anyone here ever attended an imam hatip school? They are just as good as any other turkish school where students don't learn english either. I know several people who graduated from imam hatip schools and they have not been brainwashed in any way, in fact they are very grateful that they were given an education they otherwise may not have been able to receive. |
yes i had education in imam hatip school.. is there any question?  |
Süper! So, ciko were you brainwashed at that evil, evil school? |
Brainwashed? hahahahahaha if i were brainwashed i would be praying in the mosque now
no never..the only difference is we just get more lessons about religion..like reading quran and arabic lessons and rules of islam and life of Prophets and histories of religions bla bla..but furthermore we got all lessons which other students have at other schools.and the school i attended was the best one in my hometown and most of my classmates went to the best universities of Turkey ( this is not including me )
But i am personally against that government finances that kind of schools..i think the state should have the same distance to all faiths..or should have distance to any faith..
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53. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:30 pm |
Quoting ciko: [
But i am personally against that government finances that kind of schools..i think the state should have the same distance to all faiths..or should have distance to any faith.. |
+1
+1
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54. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:32 pm |
Quoting boradiz: Quoting ciko: [
But i am personally against that government finances that kind of schools..i think the state should have the same distance to all faiths..or should have distance to any faith.. |
+1 |
only 1 ?
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55. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:33 pm |
Evil was written sarcastically, that's the only practical use I know of that word
When you graduate from an imam hatip school you get a regular diploma and you're most likely not any more religious than the next person. The good thing about the imam hatip system is that they grant opportunities to young people who otherwise may not have been able to get an education. The students are not exceptionally religious in any sense, they still go out to look at girls or smoke on the school's attic. They may learn how to read arabic and so what?
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56. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:38 pm |
Quoting azade: they still go out to look at girls or smoke on the school's attic. |
hey hey hey we never smoked on the attic.. toilets were more practical
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57. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:40 pm |
Quoting ciko:
Brainwashed? hahahahahaha if i were brainwashed i would be praying in the mosque now
no never..the only difference is we just get more lessons about religion..like reading quran and arabic lessons and rules of islam and life of Prophets and histories of religions bla bla..but furthermore we got all lessons which other students have at other schools.and the school i attended was the best one in my hometown and most of my classmates went to the best universities of Turkey ( this is not including me )
But i am personally against that government finances that kind of schools..i think the state should have the same distance to all faiths..or should have distance to any faith.. |
I agree it's not a good signal to send that the state finances religious based schools. Maybe if they sponsored kids going to robert college that would be better Or just regular good schools would do
What you're saying about graduates attending the best universities is something that I wanted to point out as well I just didn't have anything to back it up on. I have found that if you tell people that you gratuated from an imam hatip school it often creates a kind of "wow" factor. It usually shows that you are well-educated.
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23 Jan 2008 Wed 06:41 pm |
Quoting ciko: Quoting azade: they still go out to look at girls or smoke on the school's attic. |
hey hey hey we never smoked on the attic.. toilets were more practical |
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59. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 07:51 pm |
Quoting Elisabeth: Are this quasi-religious schools run by the government? I think I missed something.
We have a lot of religious based schools here in the US but they are private schools. Public schools here are not allowed to promote religion in anyway. Just curious. |
That is a very intelligent qouestion Lisa...Honestly...
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60. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 07:58 pm |
Quoting AlphaF: Quoting Elisabeth: Are this quasi-religious schools run by the government? I think I missed something.
We have a lot of religious based schools here in the US but they are private schools. Public schools here are not allowed to promote religion in anyway. Just curious. |
That is a very intelligent qouestion Lisa...Honestly... |
Should I be flattered that you think so?
Anyway, from reading the subsequent posts I know the answer. I find it interesting that these schools are run by the government. It makes this situation a rather sticky wick then! I think your government makes it clear that the scarf can't be worn in public schools, is this right? In any case, I think it is poor taste to make an example of a small child. Poor thing. Perhaps a little more thoughtfulness in handling the situation was in order.
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61. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:45 pm |
Dont even think that is my general opinion Lisa...
My compliment was related to this question only...
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62. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:57 pm |
Quoting AlphaF: Dont even think that is my general opinion Lisa...
My compliment was related to this question only... |
You can keep your compliments to yourself. I am in no need of them. Coming from you, it means very little anyway.
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63. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 08:59 pm |
SO TRUE, ELIZABETH
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64. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 09:20 pm |
I was right too....
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65. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 11:02 pm |
Quoting Elisabeth: Are this quasi-religious schools run by the government? I think I missed something.
We have a lot of religious based schools here in the US but they are private schools. Public schools here are not allowed to promote religion in anyway. Just curious. |
Have you not heard of Bush's faith-based initiatives?
" President Bush has gone "under the radar" and around the Congress to spread his faith-based initiative throughout the federal government, according to a new study released Monday.
The study, compiled by researchers at the Rockefeller Institute of Government in Albany, N.Y., is one of the first comprehensive looks at the Bush administration's efforts to redirect government grants to churches and other faith-based groups.
"Religious organizations are now involved in government-encouraged activities ranging from building strip malls for economic improvement to promoting child car seats,'' the study states. "
faith-based initiative
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66. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 11:07 pm |
Quoting azade: The students are not exceptionally religious in any sense, they still go out to look at girls or smoke on the school's attic. |
Actually, muslim men don't have problems with feeling too restricted by their religion. It's only women who are not allowed to make a step without her husband's permission. (this is of course an exaggeration, but you get the point )
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68. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 11:14 pm |
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69. |
23 Jan 2008 Wed 11:22 pm |
Quoting catwoman: Quoting azade: The students are not exceptionally religious in any sense, they still go out to look at girls or smoke on the school's attic. |
Actually, muslim men don't have problems with feeling too restricted by their religion. It's only women who are not allowed to make a step without her husband's permission. (this is of course an exaggeration, but you get the point ) |
Muslim men are not supposed to neither smoke or check out girls but you are right a lot of them are doing haram things anyway.
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70. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 12:04 am |
Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: ... dont you have ball? i think there is something wrong with you  |
I think you might be right on point there ciko.... (this also explains all the mental issues he might have) |
Check your own balls....You are not fooling me !
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71. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 12:30 am |
Quoting AlphaF:
Check your own balls....You are not fooling me ! |
Well its great to be a woman with balls! But a man without is just.. a dick
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72. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 12:34 am |
Btw it is so strange to see the word Apartheid in other languages!It is originally Dutch and sounds so weird in English
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73. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 01:36 am |
Quoting Elisabeth: Quoting GatewaytoTR:
P.S. Catwoman, you are not funny at all. |
OH Come on! She is usually funny every other Tuesday of months ending in "r". |
Are you trying to prove that you are funnier then me, Elisabeth? Just so you know, I really don't care. Some people are just born to be wise and serious! (no pointing fingers of course)
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74. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 01:38 am |
Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting AlphaF:
Check your own balls....You are not fooling me ! |
Well its great to be a woman with balls! But a man without is just.. a dick  |
Gosh, you cracked me up DK!
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75. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 02:08 am |
Quoting Deli_kizin:
Well its great to be a woman with balls! But a man without is just.. a dick  |
This will hurt!!
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76. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 06:16 am |
time to hit the sack....keep well, friend !
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77. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 09:44 pm |
Quote: Quoting catwoman:
Well its great to be a woman with balls! But a man without is just.. a dick  |
Gosh, you cracked me up DK!  |
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78. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 09:52 pm |
They have another name for ladies with extras..They dont call them women.
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79. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 09:53 pm |
Quoting AlphaF: They have another name for ladies with extras..They dont call them women. |
.............and they don't call them ladies either...
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80. |
24 Jan 2008 Thu 11:01 pm |
Quoting catwoman: Quoting azade: The students are not exceptionally religious in any sense, they still go out to look at girls or smoke on the school's attic. |
Actually, muslim men don't have problems with feeling too restricted by their religion. It's only women who are not allowed to make a step without her husband's permission. (this is of course an exaggeration, but you get the point ) |
beliefs and practises,so different things and if only our weak human volition could be enough strong for live goodnesses of beliefs..Human nature lower the animals and higher then angels and main thing we r on the which point of this scale whatever we believing
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