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DEATH OF ATATURK
(44 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 5
1.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 07:15 am

There are some claims that Ataturk's death is far from being natural. The point of the claims is that he was intentionally misdiagnosed and deliberately mistreated during his illness, leading to his untimely demise. (died at 57 years of age).

While I can not provide references in English, a google search "Ataturk nasil olduruldu" may lead Turkish speakers to a number of entries...which do look plausible, but offer no conclusive proof.

The most serious claims, that I am aware of, come from a researcher named OGUN DELI (see internet, for quick reference) and can also be found in the doctorate thesis of a Naval Officer (a medical doctor).

Mr. Deli has written a book on the subject, which is freely circulated and sold in bookshops - if anyone is interested.

Whether or not true, the claim is a very serious one that Turkish public should find difficult to live with. One would normally assume that a full scale investigation would be launched to (1) disprove the claim and possibly try Mr. Deli for false allegations, or if the claim is proven to be correct, (2) to let public know who was behind the plot, punish collaborators if any is still alive.

Neither of the alternatives happen; people just pretend that the claim does not exist. What is intriguing to me is that everybody keeps silent;

Turkish Military,
Turkish National Assembly,
Political parties, major politicians,
Turkish Media (with minor exceptions)
Turkish Historians,
Turkish Universities, Academics,
Other Turkish Professionals, Turkish doctors (except a few)
Turkish youth, the werewolves,
Fiercely moustached Turkish Nationalists (with minor exceptions)
Turkish National Soccer Team,

all seem to be in a tacit agreement to keep silent and ignore the claim, for the time being.

BELIEVE IT, OR NOT.....

2.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 12:01 pm

Oh Alpha! You stated his murder as fact yesterday and now you say it comes from a book by Mr. Crazy! lol

There are always conspiracy theories when famous or well-known people die - almost without exception!

People make a lot of money from this claims - you only have to look at Paul Burrel and his claims about Princess Diana!! As soon as he was asked to give evidence in court, he suddenly does not have his "proof" anymore and things he may be lost it! lol lol lol

As to your theory that there should have been an investigation, the post-mortum was obvious enough to satisfy everyone that his death was natural. The only reason the ridiculously expensive court case about Princess Diana's death is going on in the UK is because of a very rich man who lost his son and wants to blame SOMEBODY other than his own staff.

3.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 12:53 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

people just pretend that the claim does not exist. What is intriguing to me is that everybody keeps silent;

Turkish Military,
Turkish National Assembly,
Political parties, major politicians,
Turkish Media (with minor exceptions)
Turkish Historians,
Turkish Universities, Academics,
Other Turkish Professionals, Turkish doctors (except a few)
Turkish youth, the werewolves,
Fiercely moustached Turkish Nationalists (with minor exceptions)
Turkish National Soccer Team,

all seem to be in a tacit agreement to keep silent and ignore the claim, for the time being.

BELIEVE IT, OR NOT.....



I am surprised you find it so intriguing! I thought this was standard policy in Turkey for ANYTHING that is a bit uncomfortable to discuss, or anything which does not promote Turkishness

4.       christine
443 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 01:21 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:



People make a lot of money from this claims - you only have to look at Paul Burrel and his claims about Princess Diana!! As soon as he was asked to give evidence in court, he suddenly does not have his "proof" anymore and things he may be lost it! lol lol lol

Yes anyone can claim lots of things about a person once they are dead, because they are no longer here to defend themselves.

The only reason the ridiculously expensive court case about Princess Diana's death is going on in the UK is because of a very rich man who lost his son and wants to blame SOMEBODY other than his own staff.



This is totally true and is a waste of money. The truth will never be known and it is time to let Diana rest in peace.

5.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 02:02 pm

There are doubts on his post mortem, too.

6.       azade
1606 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 02:18 pm

He died of cirrhosis, probably caused by his fondless of rakı. End of story.

But I see why nationalists would want to turn to conspiracy theories...
Why not just let him rest in peace?

7.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 03:24 pm

He was treated for cirrhosis, but he did not have that disease (wrong diagnosis). The medicine they used to treat him was mercury based (wrong and fatal treatment); questioned by many at the time, totally banned now.

His liver totally disappeared after post mortem. In a situation where everything was photographed and recorded, there seems to be no records of what happened to the remains of his liver.

Who is Diana? Who is the mystery rich man?

8.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 03:38 pm

The thing is, partner, you are stating these things as fact, but where is your evidence (other than from Mr Crazy's book)?.

Have you personal knowledge of the missing liver? Did you request to see it?

9.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 03:49 pm

Correct to say I have no first hand information..How can I have it? I was not around at the time.

But there have been other articles, TV shows etc., suggesting the same theory.

No one ever rejected the suggestions. Mr. Deli gives names; his is a very serious accusation, which should be punishable, if false.

10.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 03:50 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Who is Diana? Who is the mystery rich man?



Diana is goddess of the hunt (according to Roman mythology -but what do Italians know eh?)

I am still trying to find a mystery rich man!
(preferably very old, with a low libido, a heart condition and no children to inherit his wealth )

11.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 03:57 pm

Partner, would you be amazed if I said all Italians from around Toscana region may have Turkic ancestry?

12.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 03:58 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Partner, would you be amazed if I said all Italians from around Toscana region may have Turkic ancestry?



Sadly no. You will have to do more than that to amaze me
I assumed we ALL have Turkish blood

Those naughty Turks get everywhere. I have always assumed that Adam and Eve were Turks no?

13.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:03 pm

But you know I would not even mention someting like this with no basis at all....At least not to you !

14.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:09 pm

Adam and Eve, at least Eve, were definitely not Turkish.

If she were Turkish, that apple would have been washed, peeled and nicely sliced !

15.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:10 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Adam and Eve, at least EVE was definitely not Turkish.

If she were, that apple would have been washes, peeled and nicely sliced !



And presumably wearing more than fig leaves

16.       christine
443 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:10 pm

Quoting AlphaF:



Who is Diana? Who is the mystery rich man?



Where have you been in the last ten years. 1997: Princess Diana dies in Paris crash.


Diana, Princess of Wales, has died after a car crash in Paris.
She was taken to hospital in the early hours of Sunday morning where surgeons tried for two hours to save her life but she died at 0300 BST.

In a statement Buckingham Palace said the Queen and the Prince of Wales were "deeply shocked and distressed".

Prince Charles broke the news of their mother's death to Princes William and Harry at Balmoral Castle in Scotland where the royal family had been spending the summer.

The accident happened after the princess left the Ritz Hotel in the French capital with her companion, Dodi Al Fayed - son of Harrods owner, Mohammed Al Fayed.

17.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:12 pm

Quoting christine:

Quoting AlphaF:



Who is Diana? Who is the mystery rich man?



Where have you been in the last ten years. 1997: Princess Diana dies in Paris crash.


Diana, Princess of Wales, has died after a car crash in Paris.
She was taken to hospital in the early hours of Sunday morning where surgeons tried for two hours to save her life but she died at 0300 BST.

In a statement Buckingham Palace said the Queen and the Prince of Wales were "deeply shocked and distressed".

Prince Charles broke the news of their mother's death to Princes William and Harry at Balmoral Castle in Scotland where the royal family had been spending the summer.

The accident happened after the princess left the Ritz Hotel in the French capital with her companion, Dodi Al Fayed - son of Harrods owner, Mohammed Al Fayed.



Dont feed him with this - of course he knows! lol lol lol

18.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:12 pm

Keep me away from dudu affairs ...no gossip here....

19.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:14 pm

Well Mohammed Al Fayed is certainly rich - and he lost his only son, and he is old....

Maybe he fits my requirements - as long as I do not have to convert to Islam?

20.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:25 pm

Dont change the subject, partner ! I can see through your sincere efforts to stop me proving that Italians are actually Turks ! (what do they know?)

21.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:27 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Dont change the subject, partner ! I can see through your sincere efforts to stop me proving that Italians are actually Turks !



Well I am inclined to believe you - Italian men are notorious for sexually harassing women...it must be in their blood! They are also famous for their dictator!

PS. I took the liberty of correcting your typo partner

22.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:31 pm

Unfortunately my claim is not based on ladies' harrassable points.
This claim revolves around antique stones with incriptions on them - the ones Italians keep digging up, but can never read..

Still not curious?

23.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:32 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Unfortunately my claim is not based on ladies' harrassable points.
This claim revolves around antique stones with incriptions on them - the ones Italians keep digging up, but can never read..



Well based on your (and my) evidence, I think we can conclude that it is true

24.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:35 pm

I have not seen many Italian men with fierce moustaches though .... is that important do you think?

25.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:35 pm

OK...I will now have to go and find another utterly ridiculus point of discussion...)))))))))))))))

26.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:37 pm

Italians lost their moustaches, while fighting against barefoot Eithopian patriots....that is another subject !

27.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:38 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Italians lost their moustaches, while fighting against barefoot Eithopian patriots....that is another subject !



lol lol lol
Aha interesting....here is our new utterly ridiculous point of discussion.

Tell me more! Hadi!

28.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 04:40 pm

I think Brits lost their fierce moustaches during World War I - the war ended and suddenly they had gone! I think Turks and Germans stole them, as both still sport them in a dandy fashion

29.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 10:09 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting AlphaF:

Who is Diana? Who is the mystery rich man?



Diana is goddess of the hunt (according to Roman mythology -but what do Italians know eh?)

I am still trying to find a mystery rich man!
(preferably very old, with a low libido, a heart condition and no children to inherit his wealth )



Don't you already have Alpha?

30.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 10:13 pm

Quoting Elisabeth:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting AlphaF:

Who is Diana? Who is the mystery rich man?



Diana is goddess of the hunt (according to Roman mythology -but what do Italians know eh?)

I am still trying to find a mystery rich man!
(preferably very old, with a low libido, a heart condition and no children to inherit his wealth )



Don't you already have Alpha?



Is he rich?
I should stop arguing with him dimi?

31.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 10:19 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting Elisabeth:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting AlphaF:

Who is Diana? Who is the mystery rich man?



Diana is goddess of the hunt (according to Roman mythology -but what do Italians know eh?)

I am still trying to find a mystery rich man!
(preferably very old, with a low libido, a heart condition and no children to inherit his wealth )



Don't you already have Alpha?



Is he rich?
I should stop arguing with him dimi?



I will have to check my sources....but initial investigations have revealed he is really a wealthy American oil barren!

32.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 10:22 pm

Quoting Elisabeth:

I will have to check my sources....but initial investigations have revealed he is really a wealthy American oil barren!



Sorry ...gotta go!
(How long does it take to convert to Islam and gain some nationalistic tendencies?

.......thanks for info....must hurry.....bye...........

33.       MrX67
2540 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 10:27 pm

to get back Atatürk impossible,so we need new Atatürks for grow his ideas and upgrade his revoliations..Today and future more important then past and world's realities changing so fast,so lets open road of new Atatürks..

34.       ciko
784 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 10:45 pm

New Ataturks?... No more please

35.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 10:51 pm

Quoting ciko:

New Ataturks?... No more please



How about
Matterturk?
Hatterturk?
Flatterturk?

36.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 10:57 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting ciko:

New Ataturks?... No more please



How about
Matterturk?
Hatterturk?
Flatterturk?



Fatterturk....the more "full figured" leader.

37.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 11:12 pm

Quoting Elisabeth:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting ciko:

New Ataturks?... No more please



How about
Matterturk?
Hatterturk?
Flatterturk?



Fatterturk....the more "full figured" leader.



or Latterturk - The Deceased

38.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 11:18 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting Elisabeth:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting ciko:

New Ataturks?... No more please



How about
Matterturk?
Hatterturk?
Flatterturk?



Fatterturk....the more "full figured" leader.



or Latterturk - The Deceased



Or Batterturk - A Somewhat Aggressive Leader

39.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 11:27 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting Elisabeth:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting ciko:

New Ataturks?... No more please



How about
Matterturk?
Hatterturk?
Flatterturk?



Fatterturk....the more "full figured" leader.



or Latterturk - The Deceased



Or Batterturk - A Somewhat Aggressive Leader



Scatterturk....he was the more cowardly brother...always running away, that one.

40.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 11:28 pm

Whatsthematterturk...never had a clue what was going on.

41.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 11:31 pm

MadAsAHatterTurk - self-explanatory

42.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 28 Jan 2008 Mon 11:32 pm

Splatterturk...fell from a window

43.       alameda
3499 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 12:17 am

Quoting AEnigma III:

..........I am still trying to find a mystery rich man!
(preferably very old, with a low libido, a heart condition and no children to inherit his wealth )



Beware AEnigma III....there may be nephews.... nieces....cousins brother and sisters....remember Howard Hughes?...........then there was Anna Nicole...not so easy..

44.       alameda
3499 posts
 29 Jan 2008 Tue 12:23 am

Quoting AlphaF:

He was treated for cirrhosis, but he did not have that disease (wrong diagnosis). The medicine they used to treat him was mercury based (wrong and fatal treatment); questioned by many at the time, totally banned now.

His liver totally disappeared after post mortem. In a situation where everything was photographed and recorded, there seems to be no records of what happened to the remains of his liver.



.........is this true? Almost reminds me of JFK....

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