This vow (Andımız) is read by all primary school students in every morning before lesson:


ANDIMIZ
"Türküm, doğruyum, çalışkanım,

İlkem; küçüklerimi korumak, büyüklerimi saymak, yurdumu, milletimi özümden çok sevmektir.

Ülküm; yükselmek, ileri gitmektir.

Ey Büyük Atatürk!

Açtığın yolda, gösterdiğin hedefe durmadan yürüyeceğime ant içerim.

Varlığım Türk varlığına armağan olsun.

Ne mutlu Türküm diyene!"


here is a video of students

My Webpage

Here is my attempt of translating it so that other members can understand it too:


Türküm, doğruyum, çalışkanım,
I am Turk, I am honest, I am hard working

İlkem; küçüklerimi korumak, büyüklerimi saymak, yurdumu, milletimi özümden çok sevmektir.
My principle is to protect the small, to respect the big, to love my country and my people more than I love myself

Ülküm; yükselmek, ileri gitmektir.
My ideal is to (improve), to move forward/to progress

Ey Büyük Atatürk!
Hey Great Atatürk!

Açtığın yolda, gösterdiğin hedefe durmadan yürüyeceğime ant içerim.
I promise solemnly to walk on the road you have opened, to the goal you have showed, without stopping

Varlığım Türk varlığına armağan olsun.
May my existence be a gift to the Turkish existence

Ne mutlu Türküm diyene!"
How happy for the one who says 'I am a Turk'!



Please correct me where I am wrong.

This vow (Andımız) should be abolished..
It is quite embarressing!!

no harm on mindfull nationalism unless turn on racism,and a strong world citizenship's road pass on peacfull nationalism..

I don't understand what you mean


It is just my opinion that nationalism shouldn't be fed in schools at daily basis, that there is no need for nationalism to learn to accept other people on the globe. And it is my choice of life not to be nationalistic or pattriotistic There is no discussion about that anyway

There are two big waves in the world today; one is the rise of nationalism which began one and a half centuries ago and it is still going strong, and the other one is the rise of individualism.

There are two types of economic models in the world today; one is based on natural resources and the other is on industry. Industrialized countries used nationalism to split countries into more managable chunks. They neeeded individualism to augment consumption. Individualism destroyed the patriarchal family model and gave way to the formation of new homes with extensive needs in all departments. Nationalism killed peace and harmony and it provided the final curtain for old society.

Once there was prose, poetry, music, social activities, now these are all replaced by an arguably more efficient society of lonesome souls seeking happiness everywhere.

Today, happiness is the most sought after asset.

I think it should be explained here for some people that Turkish students say this every day in school in the mornings.

its normal. hahahaha.
we also have it. i`m in 2nd year high school now
and we still say it.
we say it with our right hands raised.
hahahahaha.

I see nothing wrong about a vow like this at school, it is a matter of tradition so I don't think this is what makes nationalists. Some countries don't have vows like this and still there are nationalists.

I believe patriotism is a good thing - a vow doesn't teach it for sure, but gives a sense of belonging. I disagree with any kind of religious lines to be repeated, but if it's just a pledge to your country then what's wrong with it?

This pledge has been said by the 7 years olds 10s of years in Turkey.
After all those years, the generations who grew up with 'andimiz' (and of course with 'ne mutlu turkum diyene' as well) just managed to create the quality of living standards 'just above' African countries.!!!
So basically they are empty and they are not working.
(personally, instead of brain washing with people with empty slogans, it is better if we taught people why holland generates 7 times more money from their agricultural product than turkey or why and how they make nearly 10 billion dollars each year from the export of tulips with 15 million people where as we just managed the same amount from tourism several years ago with 80 million people!! )

Anyways, about andimiz.

I doubt the validity of it and also I doubt the relevance of it as well as I find it quite disrespectful to my country's citizens.
It is against everything about multiculturalism.
There are not Turks only in Turkey.
There are people they dont want to call themselves turk and they are the people of Turkey.
They are turkish.
They dont call themselves Turk.
And everybody should respect this.

ps..I think recently the minister of education said something about it too.
I think he argued that "putting foreign children (like germans, english etc) into line of assembly every morning and force them to say 'I am a Turk' as a first line would be forcing them to lie".
It is, to be honest,a confession that we have been forcing our own people to lie for a long time
And nobody should say that "'I am Turk' in that context does not not mean turk as ethnic race"..please. we should not lie to ourselves

I am proud of my ancestors and I don't mind if they were as poor as African people or as rich as the Swedish. Thanks to the lives of hundreds of thousands of hungry, battered troops that defended their motherland at Dardanelles could we survive as a nation fighting against the English, the French, the Italians, the Greeks and the Indians all at once and at a time when there was no money in the government's coffers. The leader of these people produced a new republic from the ashes of the past. This new republic achieved an unprecedented transformation process which saw the collapse of old institutions, a destruction of the superstitions and quantum leaps in all spheres of life. We needed to be oriented towards a target and we needed to be polarized politically to make that possible. This is a known process.

We know all the heroes of other nations including imaginary ones like Superman or the 50's heroes like Montgomery and Patton, let us not forget Stallone and his
American propoganda series. Those are so comical, in Turkey only comedy versions of them are shot.

Our nationalists are fewer, calmer and essentialy more moderate than the US nationalists I have come accross on the net. For every one hundred ultranationalists with a racial discourse we have just one or two.

European ppl and even some tukish ppl who live in europe see turkish ppl ignorant. they look us from top. that s why they always give advices. they just talk and talk nothing else. We wont educate our children as u want. coz we see turkish children who educated in europe. I know all of you are very small minority, think like that. ur type of persons can say one day, this flag is old, we should find another new one. coz it wont mean anything to them. but it does too much us. being a part of this country is not easy. and we know this, we can give our life without any hesitate when needed.

I didnt want to start a discussion with this topic. IF TURKISH CLASS IS NOT A POLITICS AND RELIGION WEB SITE, ONE OF THE MOST SUITABLE POST IS THE ONES, GIVING KNOWLEDGES ABOUT TURKEY. Some members post politic things which show their views, but no body criticize it or say something wrong. We forgot that this class is a language class for along time.

This post is all about turkey and tukish culture. it s reality in turkey. it happens at schools every morning. I dont see anything wrong with this Andımız. I really didnt think it will take bad comments. it s just an innocent promise for students. why are u looking for racism under everything? being patriotic is bad ? Yes Im "narrow minded", maybe moderators must delete or close this topic. I wont say I wait respect from members coz I know members well now.

i am a teacher,
almost nobody (teachers, students) is happy with repeating this oath every morning...and i feel bad and stupid when i force kids line-up and repeat it every morning...more than 90% of the students just pretend, they playback! which means very few really feel sth. when they cry out (or pretend) the andimiz. though i know it will be hard for some to accept this bare truth!
and yes deli kizin, schools shouldnt be the place where nationalism is fed!
better if removed from practice!

Well, I am not Turkish, but I have raised my son to be proud to say the Pledge of Allegiance (US) in school. I would be really sad and hurt if it was decided not to say it in schools anymore. My father was in the US military along with my two brothers. My family sacrificed a lot for our country. I am very proud of that fact and I am glad when Americans are asked to remember that sacrifice. I don't think praising your country is necessarily racism but on the same hand, I don't think critisising your country means you don't love it. I can understand the great pride some of our Turkish members have in their country and I think its nice to see devotion to their heritage.

do you want THE list of all intellects killed by the NATIONALISTS?

It's like Elizabeth said about America's Pledge of Allegiance. It is a tribute to those who fought so many wars and gave their lives at a young age so that today's children can be free and live under self-rule.
The people in the US that protest pledge of allegiance are the type of people who will protest anything, just for the sake of protest.

Andımız is the same. It honors Turkey's hero's that kept Turkey out of the hand's of its enemies after the fall of the Osmans.

I agree with both Keith and Alameda. Global Village project was a lame one from the very beginning. We are all different countries, cultures, nations. I am astounded at seeing how easily some of us have solved the mystery of foreign cultures.

In today's world, you cannot run even the simplest form of international business unless you understand the internal mechanisms of the society you are doing business in.

I am neither like Roswitha, Catwoman, Deli Kizin, Alameda or anyone else belonging to a different nation. I am what I am and it is your problem if you think I am doing the right thing when I live up to your expectations in terms of thinking and reasoning. All that you are doing is trying to reverse irreversible values deep rooted into cultures. I have an accomplished culture which is not like yours, my music is not even similar to yours, my philosophy can be something to be ridiculed from say a German's point of view but in fact it is my life and soul and I am proud of being a member of this culture because it makes me happy.

The schools in Turkey educate Turkish children. Those children will live in Turkey not in Washington or London. They will hopefully stay and work for their country. We know how weakness is penalized in the international arena of politics where everyone works for their interests. We would like them to love their country at least as much as a US, English or Polish person does. (We don't even want them to love it as much as the French do).

Summarily, we would like to hold on to our cultural heritage by living and dying as Turks.

Vineyards, I certainly respect your feelings and opinions, but I would also like to give my opinion in response to you. I am not trying to change you (or anybody else), I am only responding to what I see. At the same time, I am not only not criticizing you and your culture as a whole, but only certain aspects of it. And my only purpose in doing that is to point out things that might be to your benefit and to the benefit of other people living in your country. Don't you think that people/cultures should take a critical look at themselves every once in a while in order to keep getting better and not to stagnate?

Catwoman, we Turks criticize ourselves more than you know. We have been doing this for at least a couple of centuries.
Sadly, nothing gets better by criticizing when critics contain destructive elements.

For example, when someone implies that our oath is wrong because it contains racist, nationalistic elements then I am entitled to asking this question: why am I supposed to understand that oath the way you do? Why should I not use the word Turk whereas it means nothing more than a citizen of Turkey.

Ethnically, you can be a Kurd, Armenian or whatever but if you are a citizen of this country you are a Turk. You can call yourself an Armenian Turk but it is different from being an Armenian citizen living in Armenia. You need to serve this country. If you don't want to serve this country international laws permit immigration rights. If you feel loyal to Armenia, you are free to go and live there.

For my own part, I never thought about immigrating to the US or the UK because I never felt like serving American or British people or their intererests. I have always wanted to preserve my culture and values, and let me tell you I am very, very, very and very comfortable with a great majority of those values.

About the list above about nationalism:
I have been living in the uk and the nationalism I have seen here is nothing to do with the nationalism in turkey.
And nationalism is dying in developed countries because 'being a citizen is more important' than being a nationalist.

Thanks for the corrections, thehandsom. I will update my translation.

Congratulations on you observations. These are your own observations. I always happily defended that we Turks don't have racist elements in our culture after hearing so many UK and Swedish people talk about skin colors, religious beliefs so frequently.

I think an oath is nice, especially if it is one that remembers the one who made life of today possible for us yesterday. But what Gernas said, is what I heard of most teachers I have spoken to in Turkey, the majority of teachers and pupils does not feel anything when saying this. If I were to decide (which obviously Im not, but hey, this is all hypothetical anyway), I would start the schoolyear with this oath, maybe end it, and use it for special occasions like graduations.

I have to agree with thehandsom, it is not suitable for young children.

It's pointless to try and debate which country is more racistic. I believe the UK to be a rather racistic place, and the Netherlands, which wasn't really racist let's say some 5 years ago, is going through a very bad development where people have discriminating thoughts about Islam and about foreigners in general. I would never say that there is no racism in the UK or in the Netherlands (I just talk about my two motherlands, I dont know really about the rest of Europe), but it is a fable to believe that the strong nationalism in Turkey, is not very close to racism. That doesn't mean that all who love the oath, are racists. But it means that racists generally love the oath.

+10000000 thehandsom right on spot.

It's horrendous to see "ne mutlu türküm diyene" written on every beautiful mountain in areas populated by kurds. I don't understand how people can be so brainwashed they refuse to acknowledge the truth behind turkish assimilation politics.

Oh about my post: I never meant to say that the ENTİRE British and Dutch population is a racist. I just meant that it is ridiculous to debate where and whether there is racism somewhere or not, because it's everywhere unfortunately.

I also will make the comparison that the people in Turkey that protest Andımız, are the same people in America who protest Pledge of Allegiance in school, Christmas Trees and Nativity Scenes.
These people with their communist ideology really bore me...

What has it got to do with communism?? Individualism and personal freedom would be better choices.

The government cannot transport individualism or personal freedom on trucks. These concepts develop themselves without the direct influence of the government.

Personal freedom or individualism will be just void concepts in a region that do more to maim a country than to contribute to its progress. DTP hails Ocalan as the leader of the Kurds so do the masses in a couple of Eastern province. The party keeps receiving votes of the Kurdish citizens. If Ocalan is their leader, they are not serving this country at all. It is natural that Kurds are disturbed at seeing the symbols of this country. They prefer their own tri-color flag, they have their own leader. All that has to be done is waiting until the day comes.

NE MUTLU TURKUM DIYENE...we turks dont care about uturkish youth will grow up with their heros...and every turkish children will be next heros if u like or not...gerisi yalan

I believe in free speech...as long as it's my speech or as long as everyone agrees with me!!

I wanna add smth to this subject:

"Türk'e kefen diken karşısında bizi bulur."

This student vow is our traditional features of Turkish educational system and applied in primary schools in order to strenghen the identites of the Turkish posterities. whether u like it or not, u have to show respect this tradition.

the most powerful states in the world are nationalist states. I lived in Paris and Marseille for a long time and observed that French people are very nationalistic, and they reject and ignore the people who are from different countries, and they believe that French nationalism help them to evaluate their identities as well.

Hence, nationalism is a necessity for the states to protect their ID's. Essentially, French Revolution in 1789 was occured in the centre of Europe, so what happened?

the nationalism style of Atatürk is very peaceful, creative, helpful, and innovative. Regardless the ethnic origin, if someone who likes his/her flag, country, culture, he/she's a Turk, that's all... Turks, Kurds, Cerkes, Laz, Armenians, Greeks in Turkey are all sisters and brothers and we live in Turkey peacefully, without any discriminative provocations. However, USA and EU makes agitations to divide the boundaries of Turkey with using ethnic identities in Turkey, and we are aware of these ambushes. (Real Turks must be aware of these kinda ambushes).

Whether u accept or dont accept, you must show your respects to our national identities. Turkey is belonged to Turks, that's all...

look what Atatürk's saying:

"Dünyanın bize hürmet etmesini istiyorsak evvela bu hürmeti, hissen, fiilen, fikren bütün hâl ve hareketlerimizle gösterelim. Bilelim ki milli benliğini bulmayan milletler, başka milletlerin esiridir."

22 March 1924.

any questions?

I just want to add one thing: French nationalism isnt really comparable to the nationalism you find in other West-European countries.. You are right, they are strong nationalistic and dont easily accept other people. Actually, I have been there on holidays many many times, and even if they spoke English, they just refuse to speak anything but French with me


And when Atatürk said 'Ne mutlu Türküm diyene', I am sure he meant nationality the way you try to describe: peaceful, with space for all ethnicities united in one Turkey. But it is put a little out of context by many ülkücü Im afraid


As a last: I respect your traditions, but that doesn't mean I agree with them And if you want a country to improve, you have to question your own traditions: what is good about them and what needs change? How can we improve our country, without loosing touch with our inheritage? But I dont think that is disrespectful. I think that is what Atatürk wanted: a people that grows to the future and moves along with the time.

u misunderstood my sentence. "Real Turks" implies the ppl who identify themselves as Turk, love livin in Turkey, defending Turkey... etc, regardless the ethnicity. that's all... where's the racist seep?

If u read the expressions of Atatürk carefully, u can clearly infer that there's no existence of "westernization". Atatürk's aim is to reach the contemporary civilization level and then to exceed it. The key of reaching and exceeding is "work, work, work efficiently, and follow the developments in the modern world." Besides, being aware of the ambushes to the motherland. that's all...

civilization can be located in the West or East. It doesnt matter. Our aim is to exceed the civilization level, and westernization can't provide Turkey to be successful, but Turkey should follow the developments in the West. Look what Atatürk's saying:

"Acılar gördük. Bunun sebebi, dünyanın vaziyetini anlayamadığımız içindir."

Atatürk used the nationalistic movements in French Revolution and adapted it to the new state. So, Turkish ppl became "Millet" and they gave up being "Ümmet". Ümmet sisteminden, millet sistemine geçtik böylece. Hence, it's very healthy for the Turkish ppl due to the becoming of "Millet". that's all...

Atatürk's expressions and revolutions can't be understood and emphasized without reading, making investigations from the creditable sources.

Ülkücü ppl betray the nationalism structure of Turkey, and no relationship with Atatürk's nationalism style. So, we dont have to take them seriously. They are the shame for Turkey and they always make agitations and chaos in Turkey. the last work of them is killing Hrant Dink. it's a shame for Turkey and dirt the image of Turkey in the world. I'm still castigating that event...

that's all..

Did I say anyone here should not have the right to question? All I have done is disagreed. Slam??? Maybe. You have never slammed anyone here?

As I have said countless times. Turkey is at a crossroads now. The nations that form G-7 and are permanent UN Security members did not become stable democracies over night. They went through the same identity struggles early on as Turkey is going through now. This is why I do not hold Turkey to the same standards as I hold to western nations.
Do my views conflict sometimes because of this? Yes.

to all of you that have ability to understand, from Ataturk:

Turkish youth!

Your first duty is forever to preserve and to defend the Turkish independence and the turkish republic.

This is the very foundation of your existence and your future. This foundation is your most precious treasure. in the future, too, there may be malevolent people at home and abroad who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. If some day you are compelled to defend your independence and your republic, you must not tarry to weigh the possibilities and circumstances of the situation before taking up your duty. These possibilities and circumstances may turn out to be extremely unfavourable. The enemies conspiring against your independence and your republic, may have behind them a victory unprecedented in the annals of the world. it may be that, by violence and ruse, all the fortresses of your beloved fatherland may be captured, all its shipyards occupied, all its armies dispersed and every part of the country invaded. And sadder and graver than all these circumstances, those who hold power within the country may be in error, misguided and may even be traitors. Furthermore, they may indentify their personal interests with the political designs of the invaders. The country may be impoverished, ruined and exhausted.

Youth of Turkey’s future,

Even in such circumstances it is your duty to save the turkish independence and republic.

The strength you need is already imbedded in your noble blood.


thank you Ataturk, thank you

That was very moving, I see Ataturk was a great speaker. But what menaces are there for Turks now? What perils are there? Who is the enemy? Who wants to occupy Turkey?

u all dont know anything about Turkey and some countries' politics about turkey. OPEN UR EYES. PLEASE

Thanks for putting the speech into the perspective Vineyards. Of course, encouraging the young ones to develop, to aim for what's best for them is what each country should be doing. I don't think anyone has a problem with that here.

I know about giving women their rights, I read about it in Ataturk's Mausoleum as well as about making Turkey secular. It must have been difficult and glory be to him for the fact that he achieved it.

However, the way I see it, the discussion here progressed into dwelling upon nationalism as being the result of misunderstood patriotism. When I asked who constitutes such great a danger to Turkey that some members here proclaim that "We shall prevail, we'll never give up, we will be great etc" I got the "are you kidding" answer.

I haven't studied political science, but for all I know, neither the USA nor EU (or, in other words, the bed west) wants to take over Turkey. Why would they? From what I read here, I get the sense that the biggest enemy of Turkey is some of its people who are so full of hate that they see enemies even when there aren't any...

u must be kidding... if u see turkey maps used by some countries, u will understand us. but I dont want you understand us. we know what is reality. we are aware of it.

here is one:

click

Members here firstly should learn a little bit history of Turkish Republic, if they are interested politics of Turkia, then its better to comment on, otherwise sounds ridiculous as janissary mentioned...

when USA declares they have many enemies, it s ok for you.

did I say something for you. I said ppl who dont accept turkey has enemies. they think we imagine enemies I dont know what u think.

Some people seem to think that accepting the fact that there exists such a thing as 'over-nationality' in your country, makes you love your country less? I think it makes you love your country more, with all that it has inside..

And for Janis: please don't take such maps seriously It means you take USA's foreign policy very serious I agree with DD, the next president probably wont be that 'obsessed' with the Middle East. At least I really hope so, the west sort of created a chaos in the East decades ago, and now the US claims to try and 'improve' the Middle East, but all they do is selfishly destroy what should be healed

I absolutely agree that the Middle East is of great interest to the US. But it doesn't mean US would like to conquer Turkey. Turkey is an ally in NATO and is important for strategic reasons. If US wanted to divide Turkey and give part of it to Kurdistan, Turkey no longer would be an ally and would join anti-US countries and helped to form a strong front against US and EU. US would never risk it.

Politics have nothing to do with likes or dislikes, it is cold calculation of what is more beneficial. And it is more beneficial to the US to keep Turkey on their side.

There are no frienships in international politics. Every country must be prepard for the worst. We cannot establish a foreign policy on the assumption that America will always be our friend.

Plus the US is fond of threatening their friends when it thinks that they are not submissive enough. A former US Defense Secretary once said when Turkey did not grant the US the right to use the bases in Turkey to organize the air raids from: Well, we (the US) can be sure that New York and Boston will remain in the US but can Turkey be sure whether Istanbul and Izmir will always be theirs?

Friends don't threaten and humiliate friends. Friends don't take money from other friends and then turn around and act like they don't owe any allegence. Turkey isn't too proud to come begging to the US for money. I recall we forgave a 9 billion dollar debt to Turkey.

So Vineyard please explain friendship then to me?

Teaschip, I am not willing to get involved in the gutter fight you are trying to start. You will have to find someone else to pour your derision on.

We know, we know.... America is Great, Turkey sucks. blah blah blah...

This is a general response to everyone ignorant on the history of Turco-american friendship.
This is the record of a great friendship between Turkey and US with excerpts from newspapers. Turkey fought alongside US in the Korean war forming the so called reserve forces backing up the US troops. It was positioned right into the middle of the quagmire by the "dark orders" given by the US generals. This is a story of how General Yazici saved the ass of the US in Korea creating a "small" miracle.

The rest can be found at :

http://www.korean-war.com/turkey.html

Ever since this display of friendship, Turkey thinks twice before sending troops outside the country.

"4500 soldiers in the middle of the firing line have known how to create miracle. The sacrifices of the Turks will eternally remain in our minds." - Washington Tribune

"The courageous battles of the Turkish Brigade have created a favorable effect on the whole United Nations Forces." - Time

"The surprise of the Korean battles were not the Chinese but the Turks. It is impossible at this moment to find a word to describe the heroism which the Turks have shown in the battles." - Abent Post

"The Turks have shown in Kunuri a heroism worthy of their glorious history. The Turks have gained the admiration of the whole world through their glorious fighting in the battles." - Figaro

"The Turks who have been known throughout history by their courage and decency, have proved that they have kept these characteristics, in the war which the United Nations undertook in Korea." - Burner - U.S. Congressman

"There is no one left who does not know that the Turks, our valuable allies, are hard warriors and that they have accomplished very great feats at the front." - Claude Pepper, U.S. Senator

"I now understand that the vote I gave in favor of assistance to Turkey was the most fitting vote I gave in my life. Courage, bravery and heroism are the greatest virtues which will sooner or later conquer. In this matter, I know no nation superior to the Turks." - Rose - U.S. Senator

"While the Turks were for a long time fighting against the enemy and dying, the British and Americans were withdrawing. The Turks, who were out of ammunition, affixed their bayonets and attacked the enemy and there ensued a terrible hand to hand combat. The Turks succeeded in withdrawing by continuous combat and by carrying their injured comrades on their backs. They paraded at Pyongyang with their heads held high." - G.G. Martin - British Lieutenant General

"The Turkish forces have shown success above that expected in the battles they gave in Korea." - General Collings - Commander US Army

"We owe the escape of thousands of United Nations troops out of a certain encirclement to the heroism of the Turkish soldiers. The Turkish soldiers in Korea have added a new and unforgettable page of honor to the customs and legends of heroism of the Turkish nation." - Emanuel Shinwell - U.K. Minister of Defense

"The heroic soldiers of a heroic nation, you have saved the Eighth Army and the IX'th Army Crops from encirclement and the 2nd Division from destruction. I came here today to thank you on behalf of the United Nations Army." - General Walton H. Walker, Commander, Eighth Army

"The Turks are the hero of heroes. There is no impossibility for the Turkish Brigade." - General Douglas MacArthur - United Nations Forces Commander in Chief

"The military situation in Korea is being followed with concern by the whole American public. But in these concerned days, the heroism shown by the Turks has given hope to the American nation. It has inculeated them with courage. The American public fully appreciates the value of the services rendered by the Turkish Brigade and knows that because of them the Eighth American Army could withdraw without disarray. The American public understands that the United Nations Forces in Korea were saved from encirclement and from falling in to the hands of the communists by the heroism shown by the Turks."


After reading this, check out the results of another joint campaign at Bosnia. The US built the largest ever military base in history. The base is so big, together with the Chinese Wall it is one of the two structures visible from outer space. Every other friend has long returned home after liberating Bosnia. It turns out our great friend has some other intentions as well.

Our friend is notorious for helping people under its patronage. Remember what happened to the Bikini islands. How they have been deported from their native land after the bomb experiement made on their island. In Iraq there would be chemical weapons and that constituted the primary reason for the invasion, where are the chemical facilities?

Our government in the 50's was naive enough to believe that the US was our friend. There is no denying that some of the deal might have included a foreign aid too. Luckily, we are no longer selling our blood for any money.
But truth be told we have never sold our friends like some of our friends did in the past.

Now go figure out who sucks big time.

Great post Vineyards!!!

I don’t believe anyone disputed Turkey being an asset to the Americans in the Korean War. However, lets look back after World War II when the Brits left Greece and Turkey and the Truman Doctrine was signed. Basically the U.S. committing to balance the power in the Near East. Turkey welcomed that with open arms it is estimated at $400 million that went to Greece and Turkey as a result of the Truman Doctrine.

Let us not forget as well why Turkey entered the Korean War. They wanted to show their solidarity to the West not to mention more importantly what their capabilities were. As Turkey entered the Korean War there were over 3,000 casualties and approx 700 deaths. Unfortunately, Turkey entered into the War lacking weapons and equipment that were totally obsolete. The United States had to increase their military budget form $13 to about $50 billion that amount meant the military would have better guns more equipment and yes, their was money for Turkey. This was the turning point for Turkey’s role both in European and Near Eastern Power and it’s defense in which the United States supported and as a result Turkeys full support membership into NATO.

With Turkey’s army of nearly 500,000 people and equipment obsolete, the United States began to understand that Turkey as an investment of the security of the West. It cost $9,000 to fit a Turkish soldier where as to put an American soldier in Turkey it was $60,000 . So the money sent to Turkey in paid dividends was basically a terms of Western security. The critical peace between Turkey and the United States was the concern from Turkey of the Soviet Union. What Turkey wanted was a guarantee that strategically aligning with the United States who had nuclear weapons. What Turkey was willing to committ was a defense to the West , a membership into NATO, military assistance, economic assistance. In which the United States followed through on every aspect and continue s to do so this very day.

I'm sorry you are compelled to say "we suck". :-S

It is evident that you belong to a supermarket culture where everything is measured in dollars. I am trying my best not to flame you any further than that. There is a phrase common in countries full of people who think they can buy everything with their money: put your money where your mouth is! I am not willing to see anyone of our soldiers or people get killed because of the "criminal" ambitions of your government.

Actually, my post wasn't cut and pasted. It was research I did on the matter, found on the internet. Please be my guest and try to cut and paste this link, it's protected.So what the hell is your point Keith? You may also want to look at Vineyards post as well, found the same information on Yahoo. You obviously have a problem with me, as a mod if you have personal problem, you need to pm me. I'm tired of your calis remarks. It is quite evident who the immature one is here. I post, vineyard responds and Keith is right behind him. Actually, it's quite amusing how you protect eachother. I didn't realize men did this sort of thing.

Responding to Vineyards post. Bought obviously once again Turkey has no problem taking the money. Now what's worse? What kind of message does that send?

Also if you notice, Keith and vineyard NEVER respond on Jans posts. Interesting, now isn't it.

I personally don't endorse all of his posts. So what? Should I react to every single post just to please you?

I was once a target of Turkish nationalists in this site but since you talk first and research later on...

For those who talks about nationalism, you must differentiate  the words between nationalism and racism. Do not mix up these words. There is absolutely nothing wrong or harm to love your country and it´s natural that you want to protect your country which doesnt make you a racist because of that. And it first starts with yourself and your country. You can´t be good with peace to any other countries/people or to love if you dont have peace and love to your own motherland.It´s like people almost feels shy or think it will be wrong to say that they love their country because it will sound like they´re racists; from their point of view.  I can see that the world has misunderstood the Turks and dont understand  since there is a lot of discussions about this. Turks might be nationalists but they don´t hate other nations in this world. They are only protecting their country from enemies and that doesnt make them racists for that. Its a ridicilous reasoning to mix up nationalism and racism cause there is a big difference between those words!

Yurtta Sulh Cihanda Sulh! Peace in the country Peace in the World!

Only (ands) of people like you can be abolished, because their (ands) are worthless anyway.

When it comes to (ands) of people like me, no one can abolish them.

Watch it kitty !

Are you sure you know what an (and) is?

Lustrum itching of yours?

Are you sure you know what an (and) is?

You must have taken this oath many times yourself as one of "us Turks".  You can not keep your oath, you can keep nothing. 

God save your own "L"!