Turkish Politics |
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BBP leader Yazıcıoğlu / House of Lords/UK
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| 20. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 07:33 pm |
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Awful quotes. And what a tragedy that they convey. The problem with google is that you get lots of hits and as moving quotes as yours if you try typing in the Armenian Genocide.
There are many voices on each side of the story and it's hard to see which side is true. Perhaps both.
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| 21. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 07:36 pm |
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we are sure of ourselves and ready to open our ottoman archieves everytime... can they do this? NO.
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| 22. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 09:00 pm |
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Quoting janissary: we are sure of ourselves and ready to open our ottoman archieves everytime... can they do this? NO. |
Turkey also opened graveyards where Turkish were buried by armenian as well.do they open any??? no,they cant find any graveyards coz armenian killed Turks systematically...
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| 23. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 10:34 pm |
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I am a bit puzzled I must say..
Because we were talking about Talat pasha here and suddenly Janissary coming with some confessions of what ermenians did.. haha
I have read many stories about what ermenians did to us and many stories about what we did to them. Stories from both sides are horrible. (btw..I think number of circulating stories about what we did to ermenians during those years are several folds comparing to the stories about what ermenians did to us..)
Anyway..I dont think it is the scope.
I think Janissary is trying to prove one of the following here:
a- something happened and ermenians did something to us then we did something to them
b- only ermenians did something to us we did not do anything.
But however, nothing changes the fact that whatever happened (god knows exactly how many) many hundred of thousands of ermenians died. Rough estimates are around 500.000 , I think.
And also we can not change the fact that we moved all ermenians by force (women/men/childeren etc) from entire anatolia including the west which was nothing to do with the ermenian incidents happened in the east.
And in the end ,ermenians could not bear the journey (or whatever) they died.
That is the incident..
We, as Turks, accept the fact that they died!!
Lets go back to Talat Pasha now.
He was the interior minister..
It is the fact that he dealt with the deportation by himself..Everybody agrees?
There is a fact here everybody agrees too:
Hudreds of thusands of ermenians died.
Forget the rumors about 'Teşkilat-ı Mahsusa' -a secret service of the time reporting to Enver,talat,cemal pasha-, forget the rumors about Teşkilat-ı Mahsusa's head 'Bahaittin Şakir' and his thugs attacked the deportees; forget the rumors Talat pasha coordinated all these by himself from his home and send secret messages to Teşkilat-ı Mahsusa.
..Even those rumors are not true, forcing some people, young/old/kids/childeren/ women/men, from all over anatolia to somewhere out of empire and cause almost all of them die itself is a crime..
That is the reason I will bever be proud of Talat pasha.
Ataturk was not proud of him either..
So far, as far as I know, only people with limited knowledge about history and racists owns him..
Well.
It is fine by me!!
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| 24. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 10:36 pm |
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Quoting janissary: we are sure of ourselves and ready to open our ottoman archieves everytime... can they do this? NO. |
Do you have any idea why we banned this conference?
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/23/news/turkey.php
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| 25. |
01 May 2008 Thu 02:47 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: b- only ermenians did something to us we did not do anything. |
Yes we deported them  . No need to explain the reason to a handsom member like u. I think u know how many revolts they cause by the help of tashnacks and hunchaks. Let me quote a small part from an article what happened during this revolts;
Quote: The seriousness of these events is still horrifying. Armenians who lived side by side with the Turks for many centuries how and under what conditions made such brutal activities? These activities should be analyzed by the methods of psycho-sociology. The telegram which is reveled in 'Document 1' is one of the most shameful records in history: '... Until now, in Erzurum City 2.121 Muslim corpses were buried. All of them are males. All corpses have axe, bayonet and led wounds. Their livers were taken of and there pointed piles in their eyes...' 3 |
Quoting thehandsom: But however, nothing changes the fact that whatever happened (god knows exactly how many) many hundred of thousands of ermenians died. Rough estimates are around 500.000 , I think. |
what an estimate 500.000, Pamuk says 1-2 million(i cant remember know). According to foreign sources before relocation Armenian population in entire Empire not only in Anatolia is roughly between 1.000.000-1.400.000 and according to Ottoman archives in 1914 the population of armenians is 1.221.850 in empire. Approximately 700.000 left Anatolia during relocation(500.000 died??  ,Turks also killed hundred thousands,millions,billions of Kurds according to Poles of this site), some came back btw. And the number of armenians died who joined to allied forces, during revolts and relocation are approximately 200.000 according to Ottoman sources. Epidemics, Kurdish tribe attacks are the main reasons of causalities during relocation especially the ones who migrated to Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Caucasus etc.
Quoting thehandsom: We, as Turks, accept the fact that they died!! |
Accepted (but not 500.000 ) however how many Turks and muslims died during armanian revolts, does anybody need to mention? Just only in Sivas and its neighborhoods the civilian muslim population killed(not died) by armenian gangs is about 150.000 during the period of WW1.
Quoting thehandsom: Lets go back to Talat Pasha now.
He was the interior minister..
It is the fact that he dealt with the deportation by himself..Everybody agrees? |
Members of İtthat Terakki were judged because of armenian issue by Allies in Malta, and you should know the result of judgement, huh?.
Quoting thehandsom: Ataturk was not proud of him either.. |
And i think you also know why he was not proud of him but armenian issue is not the reason.
I dont know why i respond to this post, i think im bored, told again and again like a broken record, and always same response from handsomes and Poles or vice versa...
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| 26. |
01 May 2008 Thu 10:40 am |
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Quoting armegon: ...
I dont know why i respond to this post, i think im bored, told again and again like a broken record, and always same response from handsomes and Poles or vice versa... |
Actually, you keep quoting articles from the events and I keep refraining myself doing the same..
The reason I am not doing that is becasue it is not going to help. As i said before, you can find many many horrible stories from both sides and taking the quotes from stories only about what ermenians did and brushing off the other part's stories as propaganda is a sign of denial of brain washing!! We have to do better than that.
I think according to Talat pasha's records '924.158 ' ermenians subjected to relocation.
How many died is of course still disputed, according to ermenians the values is 1.5 million, orhan pamuk said 1 million, historian Halil Berktay says at least 600.000.
Basically, I dont think we will ever know the real value.
It was the reason why I said 500.000.
If you read a bit more about the issue you will see the embaressement ottomans felt after the incident. They opened court cases against those three pashas.
Actually, i am abit bored about this topic myself. it was not my intention to discuss 'ermenian issue' here.
you are coming back again and again like a broken record yourself with the knowledge of historic books published by our governement only.
This means not being able to take off yourself from the brain washing.
Come on, go and read different sources as well. It wont harm.
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| 27. |
01 May 2008 Thu 11:10 am |
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Quoting armegon:
Turks also killed hundred thousands,millions,billions of Kurds according to Poles of this site) |
Why do I have the feeling that you meant me here? I apologise for not commenting on your words of wisdom in the Polish Genocide thread. I just felt it wasn't worth my time to reply to a person who doesn't read. If you had read the first page of my discussion with Tamidakika there, you'd know why I used the word genocide with the word Kurds and it would have saved you the embarrassment of missed sarcastic remarks. I do encourage you to read before replying and I do encourage you to understand what you read before trying to be witty. There's nothing more pathetic than an attempted joke at something you misunderstood.
Quote: I dont know why i respond to this post, i think im bored, told again and again like a broken record, and always same response from handsomes and Poles or vice versa... |
I wish that was true as well. Unfortunately, while Handsom does know a lot about Turkish history, I don't. That's why the only comment I made was about the discrepancy of sources available. I have never posted a single thing about Turkey being responsible for the Armenian Genocide.
Too bad the discussion level as usual when the Grim Brothers (not a spelling mistake) join in drops dramatically. From a discussion about a controversial person, it changed into accusations of Armenians. It's really getting tiresome when no matter what is being discussed, there's always somebody to point a finger at something else. It's no surprise though. Even three-year-olds argue this way. When they find nothing wise to say, they either go for the 'you are stupid' argument or 'Bonnie wet his pants' one.
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| 28. |
01 May 2008 Thu 12:23 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: Quoting armegon:
Turks also killed hundred thousands,millions,billions of Kurds according to Poles of this site) |
Why do I have the feeling that you meant me here? I apologise for not commenting on your words of wisdom in the Polish Genocide thread. I just felt it wasn't worth my time to reply to a person who doesn't read. If you had read the first page of my discussion with Tamidakika there, you'd know why I used the word genocide with the word Kurds and it would have saved you the embarrassment of missed sarcastic remarks. I do encourage you to read before replying and I do encourage you to understand what you read before trying to be witty. There's nothing more pathetic than an attempted joke at something you misunderstood.
Quote: I dont know why i respond to this post, i think im bored, told again and again like a broken record, and always same response from handsomes and Poles or vice versa... |
I wish that was true as well. Unfortunately, while Handsom does know a lot about Turkish history, I don't. That's why the only comment I made was about the discrepancy of sources available. I have never posted a single thing about Turkey being responsible for the Armenian Genocide.
Too bad the discussion level as usual when the Grim Brothers (not a spelling mistake) join in drops dramatically. From a discussion about a controversial person, it changed into accusations of Armenians. It's really getting tiresome when no matter what is being discussed, there's always somebody to point a finger at something else. It's no surprise though. Even three-year-olds argue this way. When they find nothing wise to say, they either go for the 'you are stupid' argument or 'Bonnie wet his pants' one.
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I havent understood what this site is for....
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| 29. |
01 May 2008 Thu 12:35 pm |
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long live killingggggg,long live hate,long live revenge,long liveeeee hate,long live prejudices,long liveeeee harmful wisdom...Damn withhhhh peace,damn withh friendship,damn withhhhhh today and future....
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| 30. |
01 May 2008 Thu 01:12 pm |
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Quote: Quoting Daydreamer: Why do I have the feeling that you meant me here? |
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it was not you  , was a general comment in tamikidakika's thread but i do not suppose you think different so you can continue to assume it was you...
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