More information about -ebil, -abil suffixes can be found here:

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/cancant.htm

correction:
"Assuming we have a very" should be :
"Assuming we have a verb"

Hi Erdinc,
I’m, unfortunately, far away from advanced learner. So thanks for detailed explanation. Now I completely understand “–ebil/-abil“ suffix. But ”diğ” is still too complicated for me. I must work more on it using links you noticed.
SPECIAL thanks for your support in the moment when I needed it mostly!
I’ve just lost any hope that I could speak Turkish ever.
Now you gave me this hope again. You confirmed that I was on the right way.
Of course, I accept your advise to read as much as I can, I already do the same. I’m specially interested in poetry, although I’m not able to read it without translation.(Don’t laugh – I started with popular Turkish songs, so I can thank Tarkan for my first steps in learning Turkish!) Short stories would be nice, where I can find it. Where I can find texts you worked for us, turkish learners?
I agree with you that the soul of a language lies in the way how words come together, but, unfortunately, “putting the words together” is my biggest problem. I’ve become tired of disapointing any time when can’t underestand simple text, although I knew meaning of every word separately and almost all grammar rules. But I hope that this is the matter of practice and that I will overcome this by more reading and learning.
As for pronunciation, this is absolutely not problem for me, because in my native laguage rules of reading are the same as in Turkish - we read as written.
I must tell you that I had the similar situation with Russian as you had with English: I was lerning it in school, after that I was reading alot – poetry, novels, texts about history – and I was sure that I perfectly know Russian. However, when I came to situation to speak, I realized that I can’t! I couldn’t compose a simplest sentence! Fortunately, this blockade didn’t last long, I started to speak the way I knew, without any complexes and soon I had no more problems. My speaking, as you said, sometimes was pretty funny, but it didn’t bother me. I really hope that it will happen with my Turkish also. We’ll see in August, when I go to my vacation to Turkey.
I suppose that now I should try to translate sentences you quoted. It wil be double test for me: knowledge of Turkish and English. So…

1. Seni sevdiğim kadar kimseyi sevmedim.
It’s easy, because it’s part of poem you translated for me: I didn’t love anybody as much as I loved you (or: I haven’t love anybody as much as I have loved you – I’m not sure how to tell this on English – on my language this is the same)
2. Seni daha çok görebilmeyi isterim.
I don’t want to see you any more (I know it’s wrong, but I couldn’ think anything better)
3. Mutlu olmayı kim istemez?
(HELP, I don’t understand the meaning of the sentence, although I know the meaning of every word separately: mutlu – happy, olmak-to become, kim-who, istemek-to want/wish)
Maybe: Who wants to become happy?
4. Daha çok Türkçe öğrenmek istiyorum.
I want to learn Turkish more.
5. Arkadaşlarımla konuşabilmek istiyorum.
I want to be able to speak with my friends. (or: I would like if I could talk with my friends)
6. Onların söylediklerini anlayabilmek istiyorum.
I would like if I could understand their talking (? – I’m pretty sure that this is wrong)

Please don’t laugh if I wrote some stupidity!!!!!
One day I will speak Turkish excelent,but now I’m just a poor beginner.

Kendine iyi bak – hoşÃ§akal!
Slavica

Merhaba Slavica,

The suffix you are having trouble with is the `-dik` suffix. This is a very complicated suffix. It is used to make adjectives from verbs. I suggest to ignore this suffix and keep improving your language with easier issues.

For more reading material you can follow the links given here in this website. On the right of this page you will see a list of `links`. Click on `Turkish Language` and a list of online turkish websites will appear.
By following one of them, the princeton turkish website, I could find two very usefull pages:

http://www.princeton.edu/~turkish/reading1.html
http://www.princeton.edu/~turkish/practice/tlepss.html

The second one is great I think. Open the folders when you see them on the left.


Your translations are very good.

1. correct!

2. Seni daha çok görebilmeyi isterim.
isterim is `I want` so this sentence is affirmative.

3. Mutlu olmayı kim istemez?
Maybe: Who wants to become happy?
Almost right. iste-me-z has the negative suffix.
Who doesnt want to be happy?

4. perfect!

5. well done.

6. very good.

kendine iyi bak
erdinç

Merhaba, Erdinç, thanks a lot!
I'm so happy I can ignore "-dik" suffix at this moment and continue learning with something easier.
Pages you mentioned are relly great, very interesting and I started to use them with pleasure.
Since my translations were "very good", as you said, does it mean that there is hope for me to speak Turkish one day?
But, I have one more question. In this sentence: "Seni daha çok görebilmeyi isterim", what's "meyi" in word "görebilmeyi"? . And also "yi" in "olmayı" (Mutlu olmayı kim istemez?).
I suppose that answer is very simple, but it confused me when I was translating.
And just one more question. Did I understand well that in Turkish we use one tense for both Eglish present perfect and past perfect tenses? (sevdim = I loved = I have loved) If so, that's much easier for me, because in my native language is the same situation. I always had problem what past tense to use in Engish.
Once again, thanks for your help and support.
Kendine iyi bak.
Slavica

Hello Slavica,

I`m sure you will be speaking turkish very well one day. I think you already can speak the basic sentences.

About `görebilmeyi`, `olmayı` etc :
This is called The Direct Object Form. It is also known as The Accusative. The suffix makes the word the object of the sentence.
Example:
Türkiye > Türkiye'yi severim.
çikolata > Çikolatayı severim.
ev > evi gördüm.
okumak > okumayı severim.
yürümek > yürümeyi severim.
The accusative can be used either with nouns or verb. In both cases the word becomes the object of the sentence. When the word is ending with a consonant the accusative suffix will be:
-i/ü/ı/u (like in ev > evi)
when the word is ending with a vowel there will be the buffer `y` added and the suffix becomes:
yi/yü/yı/yu (like in the other examles above)

Here it is important to know when used with verbs it is somewhat easier. As you know the infitive suffixes are -mak and -mek. The k at the end drops here. And we get -me and -ma. Now we need to ad the accusative suffixes. There is only one way to add them. And this is as:
-meyi
-mayı
So when the accusative is used with and verb it has to take either -meyi or -mayı. There is no third option.
More Examples:
Yüzmeyi severim.
Televizyon izlemeyi çok severim.
Türkçe konuşmayı seviyorum.
Tarkan şarkı söylemeyi bilmiyor.

About the accusative you can find everything you need just here:
http://www2.egenet.com.tr/mastersj/turkish-case-suffixes.html

About perfect tenses:
No there is another tense in turkish which can be used as equivalent of past perfect.
example:
I had seen you. > seni görmüştüm.

Maybe I shouldnt say there are no perfect tenses in turkish. Since the past perfect is pretty much met by a form of inferential past in turkish like in the above sentence. But dont worry. All these things are again too much detail. You dont need them. Even some turks dont use all these details.

The thing I wanted to say last time is that you need to use simple past tense in turkish for both translating present perfect and simple past tenses from english. So it becomes:
I have lived here. I lived here. >> Burada yaşadım.

Your example is also correct: "sevdim = I loved = I have loved". Yes well done. But here there is no past perfect tense here.

I loved: simple past tense > sevdim
I have loved: present perfect > sevdim
I had loved: past perfect > sevmiştim

If you had problems with the perfect tenses I think your language is smillar to turkish by not having present perfect tense.

There is one more thing I want to say. I think studying all these siffixes isnt a good way to go. I would never suggest a learning strategy like this. The most important thing is to understand. Learning Turkish can be easier than any language if you think this way. Look at these words for instance:

okumak
oku
okuyabilmek
okuyabilmeyi
okuyabilirim
okumalıyım
okuyabilmeliyim
okusana
okur musun?
okudun mu?

As you see all these word have the same origin: `okumak`. Probably you will understand the meaning of the sentence with any of these words. Even if you dont completely understand you might have an idea what it is about. So I suggest reading anything you can find. Suffixes will be too tiring. Dont bother with them. They will come on they own with time without much studying.
I hope this helps. Cheers,
erdinc

Hello!
I like to thank you both.
Slavica for your questions and Erdinc - for your lessons. They help us much. They are very good for me though.
I have same problems as Slavica and your suggestions, Erdinc are exellent.
Thank you again.

Hi Bliss,
I’m so glad that my questions and Erdinç's lessons are useful for you too. I also feel better knowing that other people have the same problems as I do. I agree that Erdinç's suggestions are exellent. They make learning much easier and much more pleasant. Did you see the sites he recomended us? I find

http://www.princeton.edu/~turkish/practice/tlepss.html

very interesting and useful. I recommend you to test yourself (small word “sinav”, under the picture), it’s not so difficult, and you will be very proud when get high score and realise how much you already know. I would like if you let me know did you succes. And I have one question for you: is English your native language?

Merhaba, Erdinç,
I have no more words to thank you enough.
Yes, now I understand clearly! I knew about The Accusative, it’s suffixes and it’s using With nouns (we have 7 cases in my language, including accusative), but I didn’t know that it can be used with verbs too, this is something absolutely new for me. We use cases only for nouns and pronouns, never with verbs.
About perfect tenses: thanks, “sevdim” is enough for me at this moment!
Erdinç, you are really a REAL teacher! You don’t only give us lessons, but, which is much more important, teach us how to learn, and I appreciate this very much. Yes, I know that studying suffixes isnt a good way to go, but I thought that I couldn’t understand a word if I can’t recognize it’s suffix. Well, now it’s too late, I’ve lost lots of time studying suffixes, but now I will accept your advice and try with simple understanding. I already read anything I can find.
Well, since I see that your answers to my questions are useful for the others too, may I ask you to tell me something about The Ablative (-dan/-den, -tan/-ten suffixes), because this is the case we don’t have in our language. I think that we use The Genitive in situations when in Turkish Ablative is using (I’m not sure until you explain to me function of Ablative).
And my last question for now: if I say “Limon agaci alabilirim nerede?” did I ask where I can buy a lemon tree? (This is what I have to do when I go to Antalya).
Forgive me if I ask too much, but I have real confusion in my head with three different languages mixed in it
Be sure that every your suggestion helps and I’m grateful for this.
Kendine iyi bak
Slavica

Hi again Slavica,
I`m happy to know I can help others by learning Turkish.

The accusative with verbs can be used to translate these kind sentences:
I like swimming. > Yüzmeyi severim.
As you see here swimming/yüzmeyi has become the object of the sentence. Technıcally, the word swimming/yüzmeyi is called a "verbal noun" now and is no more a verb.

Ablative Case and Genitive case :
Ablative is very simple to explain. It means `from`. All the information is again on the page mentioned before.

http://www2.egenet.com.tr/mastersj/turkish-case-suffixes.html
The ablative suffixes are -den, -dan, -ten, -tan
examples:
okul > okuldan > from the school
Okuldan sıkıldım. > I'm bored from the school.

Ankara > Ankara`dan > from Ankara
Ankara`dan geliyorum. I come from Ankara.

The Ablative is the answer for any question starting with "From where/what/who...?"


The Genitive case is again simple. On the same page there is some explanation about it. The suffixes are
-in/ün/ın/un
or when after a vowel:
-nin/nün/nın/nun

Examples:
Okulun kapısı > Okul-un kapı-sı > The school's door door of the school
Denizin rengi > deniz-in renk-i > the colour of the sea

The second words with suffixes you see like kapı-sı and renk-i are different. These are the possesive suffixes.

“Limon agaci alabilirim nerede?”
This sentence is acceptable. As a simple rule, you need to put the verb always at the end.
“Limon agaci nerede alabilirim ?” would be better. The correct sentence though is:
“Limon ağacı nereden alabilirim?”

Cheers,
erdinc

Merhaba again and thanks again, Erdinç!

I gave you some short time for helping other people, and now I'm continuing with my questions.

My first question is: can we use the infinitive instead “accusative+verb=verbal noun”?
I like swimming. > Yüzmeyi severim.
I like to swim. > Yüzmek severim.
Like in: I want to see you > Seni görmek istiyorum.
or I want to buy shoes > Ayakkabı almak istiyorum
If this is the same, version with infinitive is more acceptable for me (in spirit of my language)

I found the site you mentioned – it’s great – all cases on one page! So I compared it with cases in my language, and, yes, I was right, we use The Genitive in both situations when in Turkish is using Ablative and Genitive. It's easier in English – Genitive is for "of" and Ablative is for "from"

Now I’m alittle confused about Dative. I think that sometimes Dative is used in Turkish where we use Accusative in English and my language.
Deli diyorlar bana.
(Sorry, I couldn't think better example but this part of Tarkan's song!)
- Literally translated it is "They call crazy TO ME". But we use Accusative and say "They call ME crazy". Am I right? (And am I complicated?)

My next question is about Imperative. I found lessons about all tenses and moods (Present, Aorist, Future, miş-past, di-past, Conditional…), but I couldn't find anything about Imperative. I only know that it is formed by dropping the "-mek" or "-mak" from the Infinitive, and adding "-me" or "-ma" for negative.
unutmak - to forget
unut beni – forget me
unutma beni – don't forget me
And what's happening if I talk to more persons? Or I want to tell that somebody has to do something? I'm sure you'll recommend to me some useful link.
Thanks in advance. I hope I will soon know Turkish so well that I won't need to bother you with more questions.
Kendine iyi bak
Slavica

Greetings Slavica,

"My first question is: can we use the infinitive instead “accusative+verb=verbal noun”?"
Normally we can`t but `istiyorum` is an exception. In fact when I teach the infinitive form I give lots of examples in my lessons with the infinitive used together with `istiyorum`.

I like swimming. > Yüzmeyi severim. > correct

I like to swim. > Yüzmek severim. > incorrect

I want to see you > Seni görmek istiyorum. > correct

I want to buy shoes > Ayakkabı almak istiyorum. > correct

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DATIVE CASE: to, towards
Deniz-e gidiyorum. I go to the sea.
Okul-a gittim. I went to school.
The next example (the one you mentioned) is a good one. This shows that we need to be flexible with a foreign language. It is important to understand that a foreign language can be different. We just need to accept it as it is and move on.

Deli diyorlar bana. > They call me crazy.
Now for the shake of the grammatical structure I can force the translation:
Deli diyorlar bana. > They shout towards me `crazy` They tell to me that I`m crazy.
But these sound very unnatural. So with translations we need to be flexible. If you understand the meaning this is enough to go on learning. You might or might not translate it in any other language. Understanding is the most important part. I think words can be understood better when we see them in a sentence. And sentences can be understood better when we read a story.

But look at this example:
Bana gel. > Come to me.
Here we can see the meaning of `bana` celarly. It means `to me` or `towards me`.

When I started learing English knowing German has helped me a lot. Not because there is a lot of smillarity between languages but because I knew a foreign language could be very different. You need to relax and enjoy swimming in foreign seas.

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IMPERATIVE
Slavica you know a lot about the imperative already. That`s great. When you use the imperative with other persons than you(singular) we simply need to add the personal suffixes at the end. If the imperative is ending with a vowel like in `oku` we put the buffer `y` in between.

Examples:

GELMEK:
Singulars:
1.person: Ben geleyim. > let me come
2.person: Sen gel. (polite: siz gelin) > you come
3.person: O gelsin. > he needs to come > let him come
Plurals:
1.person: Biz gelelim. > we come > let us come
2.person: Siz gelin. (polite: siz geliniz) > you come
3.person: Onlar gelsinler. > they need to come > let them come

ALMAK:
Singulars:
1.person: Ben alayım. > let me take
2.person: Sen al. (polite: siz alın) > you take
3.person: O alsın. > he takes > let him take
Plurals:
1.person: Biz alalım. > we take > let us take
2.person: Siz alın. (polite: siz alınız) > you take
3.person: Onlar alsınler. > they need to take > let them take

OKUMAK:
Singulars:
1.person: Ben okuyayım. > I read > let me read
2.person: Sen oku. (polite: siz okuyun) > you read
3.person: O okusun. > he reads > Let him read
Plurals:
1.person: Biz okuyalım. > we read > let us read
2.person: Siz okuyun. (polite: siz okuyunuz) > you read
3.person: Onlar okusunlar. > they need to read > let them read

about translations: whenever there is a second suggestion for a translation the second suggestion is much better.
First person for imperative is quite uncommon but the question form is quite common.
Ben gideyim mi? Should I go?

Here are some links:
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/3484/turkish-verb-imperative.html
http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/imperative.htm
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1717639&lastnode_id=898906
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