See, the problem is that for ALL Muslims, Muhammad (sawas) is a moral exemplar, not just the ´fundamentalists´. By stating that Muhammad-as-moral-exemplar is a ´fundamentalist mindset´, you imply that anyone who believes this - all Muslims - is a fundamentalist.

Moreover, it is a testament to Hari´s complete ignorance as to Islamic law, which contrary to Western (and, incidentally, fundamentalist) opinion, is not some monolithic Napoleonic ´Code´ for all time, but more akin to Western English or American common law, that is, an ongoing legal debate utilizing legal tools and systems for determining not only the rights and responsibilities between human individuals, but between God and humans.

And one of the tools in the legal cabinet is defference to local custom and law. For example, Muhammad wore a beard. He spoke highly of wearing a beard. But this does not mean that it is a sin, or contrary to Shari´a, to shave, because wearing a beard was local custom in Arabia at that time.

But to actually learn something about Islam and Islamic culture would mean studying it or - Heaven forfend! - speaking to an actual Muslim and run the risk of their being a terrorist who will kill you!

And besides, here in the United States our economy is sound, our national infrastructure top notch, no one lacks for health care, racism has been solved and sexism eliminated, our children receive the world´s best education, the middle class is thriving, more and more people own their own homes and are able to pay off their debts, we´re in the midst of the longest patch of peace-time in our military´s history (and our soldiers are treated to only the best we have to offer), our jails are empty and jobs are plentiful, there´s an electric car in every driveway and a chicken in every pot...

... so it only makes sense to criticize other cultures, since we´re doing so well.

Actually, the splinter/log thing is from your Bible. Jesus said it. Have a read in your gospels, they´re good literature; our Qur´an and our Prophet speak highly of them.

I think Jesus´s point was that it is easier to criticize another than to examine one´s own faults. Easier to talk about child-brides in Yemen than to look at teenage pregnancy, abortions, the rot in our foster-care system, etc here at home, let alone do something about it.

 It´s not MY Bible, I´m an agnost. I just reacted to the way you make things black and white as if there is no grey, no in-betweens 

 Here is an answer from Diyanet(the religion works)´s old president to that age issue which really irritates me...

14 Ağustos 2006 tarihinde Hz. Aişe’nin evlenme yaşını sormuştum. Siz de 18-19 yaşlarında olduğunu yazmıştınız. Bu konuda kaynak gösterir misiniz? Özdemir BAŞARGAN

Hz. Aişe, Peygamberimizle evlenmeden önce Cübeyr b. Mutam ile nişanlanmıştır. Cübeyr’in babası, ailesi içerisine İslamiyet’in girmesini istemediğinden bu nişanı bozmuştu. Bundan sonra Hz. Peygamber’le nişanları yapılmıştır. Bu hadise Hicret’ten 3 yıl önce idi. Hemen bütün siyer kitaplarında Hz. Aişe’nin 6-7 yaşında iken Mekke’de nişanlandığı ve nikáhının kıyıldığı, 9-10 yaşında da Medine’de zifafa girdiği yazılı ise de Hz. Aişe’nin evlendiğinde yaşının çok daha büyük olduğunu ablası Esma’nın biyografisinden öğrenmiş bulunuyoruz. Esma, Hicret’in 73. yılında 100 yaşında vefat etti. Hicret’in vukuunda 27 yaşında idi. Esma, Hz. Aişe’den 10 yaş büyük olduğuna göre, demek ki Hicret zamanında Aişe 17 yaşında idi. Zifafın Hicret’ten 8 ay sonra olduğu dikkate alındığında yaşının 18 olduğu ortaya çıkmaktadır. Bu konu çeşitli Arapça kaynaklarda mevcuttur. Türkçe olarak da Süleyman Nedvi ve Mevlana Şibli’nin kaleme aldıkları "Sadr-ı İslam ve Asr-ı Saadet" isimli eserde, ayrıca Diyanet yayınları arasında bulunan "Hatem-ül Enbiya Hz. Muhammed" adlı kitabın Aişe bölümünde bu bilgiye yer verilmektedir. Hz. Aişe’nin Peygamberimizden önce Cübeyr’le nişanlanmış olması, onun yetişkin, evlenme çağına gelmiş bir kız olduğunu göstermektedir.


Diyanet İşleri Eski Başkanı

Mehmet Nuri YILMAZ

If Christians fail so much to see logs in their eyes, how come films like Dogma or The Life of Brian are accessible from any DVD rental as well as played on TV? How come Jesus Christ Superstar has not caused the director to get killed? How come there are many films portraying homosexuality among priests as well as showing child abuse by them? Papers have no problem printing amusing cartoons with god/Jesus and other Christian/Jewish/Buddhist mythology and nobody dies because of it. And yet it´s Christians who never talk about their problems. yeah, right.

BTW, I am not Christian myself so I´m not defending my religion.

You have no idea of what bad conditions are..this makes me sick.  So what some of your 401k has been affected, no one in the U.S. can be denied healthcare, racism and sexism is better in this country than most, our education system is fine and the people who couldn´t afford high mortgages to begin with are loosing them.  What is your point in all this, really?

 Please tell us the point you are trying to make here...Sure it´s easier to criticize no doubt, but that doesn´t mean we shouldn´t reflect on other behaviors,cultures or religions.  If you would like to discuss the problems with teenage pregnancy, I suggest start a topic on it.

I have no idea what bad conditions are? I have no 401(k). I make $30,000 a year helping the mentally ill get off YOUR streets and into decent housing and, if they´re lucky, a job and a decent life.

Nobody can be denied healthcare? Hah! Yes, they can. They are denied healthcare all the time. Maybe you don´t see it, but that doesn´t means it does not exist.

Or perhaps you mean they can have an emergency procedure and then spend the rest of their lives paying back the $100,000+ that saved their lives at 25%+ interest rates, having their credit score decimated so that they can never own their own home or buy a car or take out loans for higher education which limits their jobs to ones within walking distance or on public transportation inevitably limiting their career options to the local chain whatever where they work a non-union job that provides minimal financial remuneration necessitating taking a second job which prevents them from parenting their children appropriately which potentially leads their children to teenage pregnancy, drugs, gangs, or just not-doing-well in the poor inner-city or rural school they attend where the teachers are so tied by the bureaucracy they cannot teach and references to evolution or to mountains have been expunged by politically-motivated lobbying groups so that these children will never be able to compete for jobs in a global marketplace. All because one person without health care had the misfortune to, say, cross the street in front of a drunk driver, or catch a severe infection.

This is the reality for millions of lives in the United States today, but instead of addressing the gross injustices in this country, the privileged few yammer away about child brides in Yemen - a criticism which, safely enough, insulates them from having to actually DO something or (worse still) SACRIFICE something to right an injustice.

My point is that, as a Muslim, I am sick of hearing Westerners criticize Islam knowing next to nothing about it, misrepresenting Islam as a monolithic hyper-conservative culture with no diversity of opinion and ultimately backwards and barbaric.

These anti-Islamic polemics have existed since Islam came about, and they as hurtful and ignorant as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Mein Kampf, or Holocaust Revisionism. Westerners criticize child-marriage but apparently take no issue with Israeli soldiers shooting Palestinian children. Westerners criticize so-called ´Islamo-fascism´ and yet support Sa´udi Arabia, Hosni Mubarak´s Egypt, or any totalitarian regime in the Middle East that supports US national interests. Some will defend a woman´s right to flush an unborn child from her womb but criticize her decision to wear a veil, a decision that is between a woman and her God, as internalized sexism. Westerners shake their heads when Muslims express outrage at cartoons depicting our Prophet as a terrorist, but callously talk of turning Iran into glass with nuclear weapons, sending Iraq "back to the Stone Age", as if this is somehow less disgusting and hateful speech.

My point is that it is the very height and definition of hypocrisy to critique another´s way of life both when you know nothing about it as well as when there are such glaring errors in your own way of life.

Jesus´s point - one with which I happen to agree - is that it is the job of us Muslims to critique our culture and way of life, which is something which we have done and currently do and shall continue to do, and the job of others to critique their own. To do otherwise invites only misery.

But hey, don´t take my word for it - spend a day pointing out the faults in your spouse, your co-workers, your boss, your friends, and then say "Hey, you don´t have a right to be upset! It is everyone´s right to criticize anything or anybody they wish".

I suspect their answers shall be less diplomatic than mine here.

I find it very curious that some Muslims protest about criticism of Islam overall (and compare it to nazi propaganda??? ) instead of responding to the points of criticism. That is one telling point.

By the way, you don´t have to "know Islam" to criticize the actions of Muslims that are clearly immoral. Get used to it... And there is so much hypocricy coming from some Muslims, who criticize everything, but rage when they are criticized themselves.

Well said. I hear many Christians say that the Pope, the bishops, the priests should not stick their nose in issues they can´t talk about, I hear many people say that it´s the Roman Catholic clergy that causes more Aids by forbidding people to use condoms, I hear only people who despise the abuse of kids by priests, I have seen some of the films you mentioned, I have read many books that criticize Christian beliefs, and despite of all this criticism there are no attacks (except for a few fanatic anti-abortion idiots in the US), no war. I seldom hear a Muslim say that maybe some things are wrong or outdated, that they look thoroughly at their rules, beliefs and traditions. No, ´we´ have to be respectful, ´we´ have to accept all that´s done in the name of a religion because the religion doesn´t allow people to think for themselves. I´m sorry if I insult someone, but I really get pissed off when I hear that everlasting moaning. It´s 2008 you know, grow up.