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Why criticism of Islam is a necessity
(112 Messages in 12 pages - View all)
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80.       CANLI
5084 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 10:18 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 

By the way your message could be seen as an insult as well, if I was that sensitive.  But I´m not! 

 

 That only if it wasnt true

 

Quote:

So do you think all Americans liks to joke about Muslims?

 

Well,not all Americans,but most i guess

As i cant say all Americans hate/dislike Muslims,but most.

 

But,i believe you ought to know better,so doesnt most of the Americans like to joke about Muslims ?

81.       teaschip
3870 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 10:21 pm

If I don´t agree on someone´s religion or culture, I do not have to respect it.  I may have to tolerate it, but not respect it.  Big difference!

 

Also, for the last time I DID NOT SAY YOUR PROPHET WAS GAY!

 

I could care less if he was married to 1 woman or 100 women or what his sexual preference was.

 

82.       teaschip
3870 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 10:24 pm

But,i believe you ought to know better,so doesnt most of the Americans like to joke about Muslims ?

Quote:

 

 

My country likes to joke about everybody including themselves, so no Muslims aren´t the only jokes being told in America.

83.       CANLI
5084 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 10:39 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

If I don´t agree on someone´s religion or culture, I do not have to respect it.  I may have to tolerate it, but not respect it.  Big difference!

 

 

 Care to explain ?!

 

İ say respecting but not believing in it.

You say,tolerate but not respecting

 İn my understanding,not respecting something means it would be a material to your insults,calling names...ect

And i believe you didnt mean that

 

So care to explain the difference between what i say and what you say?!

 

My dictionary says,

 

tolerate:

Put up with something or somebody unpleasant

Recognize and respect (rights and beliefs of others)

 

So ? {#lang_emotions_confused}

84.       Trudy
7887 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 10:44 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 I think perhaps another term you may better understand is

 

manners

 

I personally feel everyone deserves respect until they prove to me they don´t.

 

 Thank you, teacher, for showing me another of your links.

85.       Trudy
7887 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 10:49 pm

Canli, it´s very simple: I dont´t respect Islam nor Christianity nor Buddhism nor.... Why? Because they are things and I don´t respect things. I do respect Muslims, Christian, Buddhists when they showed me they earn it. I was taught by my (very Catholic) parents that no-one deserve respect just because of their being (in religion, age, status, profession or what) but they might deserve it in their behaviour. And earning that is simple: see and treat me as just another equal person, same level, worth the same, even though I have different ideas, beliefs, race, gender, age etc. That´s all.

86.       teaschip
3870 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 10:52 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Care to explain ?!

 

İ say respecting but not believing in it.

You say,tolerate but not respecting

 İn my understanding,not respecting something means it would be a material to your insults,calling names...ect

And i believe you didnt mean that

 

So care to explain the difference between what i say and what you say?!

 

My dictionary says,

 

tolerate:

Put up with something or somebody unpleasant

Recognize and respect (rights and beliefs of others)

 

So ? {#lang_emotions_confused}

 

 

Here is a good article on the difference between tolerate & respect.  He sums it up much better than I can.

http://www.booktalk.org/rationally-speaking/04-01-tolerance-vs-respect.php

 

87.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 11:00 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris

Can you give me the lines where those imams said that? as i given my source?

 

and you are forgetting the fact that... Mohammed meets with Islam during the marriage of his with Hatice! and Hatice was one of the first people who accepted the islam

 

And he was not after hatica! it was vice versa... duty his being honest and very good charactered person so we can say that he was not a Dudu ...

Here are the lines:

Bukhari
    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:

    Narrated ´Aisha:
    that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ´Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)´
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:
    Narrated ´Ursa:   
    The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ´Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
   

Dawud
Book 41, Number 4915:

    Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu´minin:

    The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr´s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.


    Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
    Narrated Aisha:

    The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah´s Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah´s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
   
   
   Tabari, volume 7, page7: "....my marriage (to Muhammad) was consummated when I was nine....."
   Tabari, volume 9, page 131 "Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"....

 

And regarding his marriage to Hatica.

Of course Hatica was after Mohammed.

She was 40 and he was 25.. Most of the sources will say that Mohammed was under his uncle´s umbrella at the time and he was very poor..

And then there is this meyr. she was valued as 500 gold pieces.. But no books say that the money was actually paid to Hatica.  And of course, during the marriage, Mohammed  did not get married to another wife..Some of the books say that he did not because Hatica had the money and the authority and she was the boss.. But after Hatica´s death Mohammed went into multiple marriages with a speed..

Anyway..

 

 

88.       CANLI
5084 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 11:02 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 I was taught by my (very Catholic) parents that no-one deserve respect just because of their being (in religion, age, status, profession or what) but they might deserve it in their behaviour. And earning that is simple: see and treat me as just another equal person, same level, worth the same, even though I have different ideas, beliefs, race, gender, age etc. That´s all.

 

 İ agree with that,no one deserve respect for what he /she is,but for who he /she is.

 

 But Trudy,that takes time !

Earning respect takes time,at least few till you judge does he/she deserve your respect or not.

So till then,would you respect or disrespect that person till you judge him/her ?

 

İ would respect him/her till that time,even if it only took few minute,then the rule should be,´respect till prove otherwise´ yes?

89.       CANLI
5084 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 11:07 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

And regarding his marriage to Hatica.

Of course Hatica was after Mohammed.

She was 40 and he was 25.. Most of the sources will say that Mohammed was under his uncle´s umbrella at the time and he was very poor..

And then there is this meyr. she was valued as 500 gold pieces.. But no books say that the money was actually paid to Hatica.  And of course, during the marriage, Mohammed  did not get married to another wife..Some of the books say that he did not because Hatica had the money and the authority and she was the boss.. But after Hatica´s death Mohammed went into multiple marriages with a speed..

Anyway..

 

And what do you think handsom ?

From what you said,i understood that she was a rich old woman who wanted to marry a young man

And she was such dominated woman in both work and home,that he couldnt escaped her untill she died..

 

So,im really curious to know what do you think ?

 

90.       Trudy
7887 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 11:16 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

İ would respect him/her till that time,even if it only took few minute,then the rule should be,´respect till prove otherwise´ yes?

 

Maybe you and I have different ideas about respect but my answer is ´no´, I wouldn´t do that. I would treat them with a distance like politeness but my respect goes far beyond that level, so that you need to prove you deserve it.

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