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Welcome to Kurdistan
(262 Messages in 27 pages - View all)
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10.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 09:47 pm

 whaaaa???

Quoting MrX67

Not easy to understand that whats benefit about  that and everybody has to be honest instead of proving their history inteelagnce with the crowded,scientific and nice words??...

 

 

11.       MrX67
2540 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 09:54 pm

ne oldu,anlamadýnmý???

12.       alameda
3499 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 10:10 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

 

I don´t agree with you that what you posted has anything to do with the rights of Kurdish minorities, or their struggle to retain their culture, while forming an independent state. There a lot of realities under the appearances that you seem to miss, if you truly believe this is about justice or fairness. This is a political game.

 

 

Whew   a lot of thought and very well written +++....

 

I think it´s about strategic territory...the Bosphorus....waterfront property and the gateway to Eurasia...and water resources as well.....how many people throughout history have tried to gain control over that area?..........but humanitarian interests are the least part of this.

13.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 10:11 pm

hayir pek anlamadim...

ne dimeye calisiyon?

Quoting MrX67

ne oldu,anlamadýnmý???

 

 

14.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 10:20 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 

 

Whew   a lot of thought and very well written +++....

 

I think it´s about strategic territory...the Bosphorus....waterfront property and the gateway to Eurasia...and water resources as well.....how many people throughout history have tried to gain control over that area?..........but humanitarian interests are the least part of this.

 

+1000

15.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 11:12 pm

Quoting cynicmystic

Well thanks for this article handsom, it was informative for us Turks once again. No name calling here. I just want to share some of my thoughts on the establishment of a Kurdistan, and some of the possible intentions that may lurk behind such an idea.

 

 

 

I know it was and thanks for answering properly without resorting ´name calling´

 

Quote:

True, the idea of establishing a new country called Kurdistan, which will supposedly include southeastern Turkey, parts of Iran and Iraq, has been around for a while. But, on the contrary to your suggestion, this idea has nothing to do with the thoughtful & benevolent sentiments about giving ´landless people´ their land that they can call their own in the name of justice or fairness. The Kurdish issue, as well as the Armenian issue, has always been political tools designed, implemented and propogated by Western countries. Depending on the specific geopolitical circumstances of each time period, the Kurdish & Armenian cards are played by the big players, such as the US, Germany, France, and the UK, for the sole purpose of protecting their vested interests in the region. The involvement of Germany & the UK in funding & arming the PKK, and escalating violence in Turkey is well known. (That is also the main reason why both countries today have a lot of Kurdish immigrants. In accordance with the vested interests of these countries, they found it more suitable to play the Kurdish card, rather than the Armenian card. The Kurdish issue served their purposes better. As a side effect of their past involvement, both Germany & the UK are having serious problems with organized crime. The Kurdish mafia in London has completely taken over the lucrative business of trafficking heroin, which used to be the playing field of the Turkish organized crime groups in the past. The situation is similar in Germany and Holland as well. But this is just a side effect, and doesn´t have much to do with the topic..)

My original post was simply to show that how some people in Turkey did not know the name Kurdistan was used by the Turks and how that simple word iritates some Turkish people irrationaly..The writer (Mustafa Akyol) was simply saying that how the word Kurdistan was used in Ottoman times..

Regarding EU sponsoring and fuelling Armanian and Kurdish problems of Turkey has always been stress ball for Turkish politicians and the Army.. I think in my earlier posts, I explained again and again, this is part of a paranoia stemming from the WWI. It has  no bearings.. I even remember giving examples how our politicans will use the same argument even for simple incidents such as accidents in ship manufacturing yards (example : Tuzla shipyard) ..Thinking that kurds are puppets of western countries is not a very glamorous thing. It is kind of hitting below the waist. I mean  for Kurds..They are citizen of Turkey as much as the army generals.. Nobody should suggest that some of our country´s people happened to be treacherous by birth..I am not buying it..

I am not going to talk in depth about why all those kurds are residing in some of EU countries because I have given many documents and posted many news articles here about how many kurdish villages have been burnt, how their names have been changed, how the language was banned etc. They are our citizens and they deserve to live as well..

So i dont think I should  repeat it again.

 

Quote:

Whether the Turkish army reacted the right way or not to these externally imposed challenges is debatable. However, the real cuplrits behind this state-sponsored terrorism were Germany & the UK, not really Turkey. I have always felt that the Turkish army should have been smarter and have employed different tactics to deal with the problem. For over a decade, over one third of the government´s revenues went into dropping bombs on its own land and people. The Turkish army literally shot itself in the foot

 

Well, I think I mentioned several time in other posts regarding army´s behaviour during this war and how many people died how many of them were kurds etc..

There have been crimes against humanity during all those years there.. Every single day they are discovering something new about what happened exactly.

There are 17,000 missing people in a list.. they are just unearthing something new such as how the army units would go and pick the people from their homes and streets and then kill them after a long torture..

Those acts were done under the name of ´fighting terrorism´ by our boys not by Germany or the Uk..

 

Quote:

The Armenian issue, on the other, has always been supported and escalated by France. That is why there is, to this day, a strong Armenian lobby in France. The US plays both cards depending on their key interests. Although the Armenian lobby is not as strong as it is in France, the Armenina issue, from time to time, re-surfaces and becomes part of the political tools intended to "show a stick under the table." Currently, the US is toying with the Kurdistan card; but tomorrow they may suddenly switch to the Armenian card depending on how things go. I don´t think I need to tell you that neither issue has any humanitarian basis or that any of these civilized Western countries give a damn either about Kurds or Armenians. They don´t. They see and use them as pawns on a global chessboard. Both are used as political tools that are intended to benefit the interests of foreign powers. You may wonder about what these interests are, and I would suggest paying attention to the shifting power dynamics in the region over the last decade

This is just the "official explanation". So nothing new here really..
I have heard this in my entire life from the people who said to us ´there is no kurds´ in Turkey .they just happened to be Turks living in mountains´..But later on they accepted that they lied..
The same authorities who told us there were only 400.000 armenian subjected to ´techir´ then we learnt that it was 1.000.000..
They simply lied to us and some people still believe in them..
I dont..
Anyway.. But we all deserve to know the truth..

Quote:

The first invasion of Iraq, which followed the fact that Saddam´s ..................................................................................

I would agree what you are saying above generically.. But we already knew many of those facts anyway.. I would not be bothered by myself personally but thanks for writing..
And almost all wars are related to economics anyway. 

Quote:

Everything really depends on how the big boys will cut a deal to establish the new power dynamics. Kurdistan may or may not be part of that plan. Analysts often state that there are two regions in the world, whose destabilization could lead to a third world war. These regions are Turkey & Iran. We will see what happens. I don´t agree with you that what you posted has anything to do with the rights of Kurdish minorities, or their struggle to retain their culture, while forming an independent state. There a lot of realities under the appearances that you seem to miss, if you truly believe this is about justice or fairness. This is a political game.

I dont agree with you..It is as simple as that.

I have given many articles and documents here reagarding how kurdish struggle started and how we have treated our own population..

There have been official documents showing that assimilation was the action taken by our own state for Kurds.

Turkey has been preparing herself for Kurdistan for a long time since the first invation as they had the facto self rule in northern Iraq...I am not sure if it is a good idea kurds to have an independant state in Northern Iraq or not..

But I still dont understand why Turkey should fear of an independant Kurdistan in northern Iraq anway.

Is there some thing that we are afraid of? cxan we say  that we did not make the life horrible for our Kurds? 

If we are accepting that we did not treat our kurds inhumanely, why do we fear to think our Kurds will join them? 

Basically what you have written up there generically a summary of what our state says about our kurdish problem (some people still try to refer it terrorism only). 

I can not see you adding anything new  into it..


 



Edited (2/21/2009) by thehandsom

16.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 11:16 pm

I think you undestand very well what I wrote in my reply handsom. Feel free to disagree though. The quality of the post speaks for itself regardless of past examples or vendetta.

 

Some see the world through the microcosm whereas others opt for the bird´s eye view. It is a matter of perspective. Remember, it is always about the underlying principles, and not the appearances.

Quoting thehandsom

 

I dont agree with you..It is as simple as that.

I have given many articles and documents here reagarding how kurdish struggle started and how we have treated our own population..

There have been official documents showing that assimilation was the action taken by our own state for Kurds.

Turkey has been preparing herself for Kurdistan for a long time since the first invation as they had the facto self rule in northern Iraq...I am not sure if it is a good idea kurds to have an independant state in Northern Iraq or not..

But I still dont understand why Turkey should fear of an independant Kurdistan in northern Iraq anway.

Is there some thing that we are afraid of? cxan we say  that we did not make the life horrible for our Kurds? 

If we are accepting that we did not treat our kurds inhumanely, why do we fear to think our Kurds will join them? 

Basically what you have written up there generically a summary of what our state says about our kurdish problem (some people still try to refer it terrorism only). 

I can not see you adding anything new  into it..


 

 

 



Edited (2/21/2009) by cynicmystic

17.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 11:20 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

I think you undestand very well what I wrote in my reply handsom. Feel free to disagree though. The quality of the post speaks for itself regardless of past examples or vendetta.

 

Some see the world through the microcosm whereas others opt for the bird´s eye view. It is a matter of perspective. Remember, it is always about the underlying principles, and not the appearances.

 

 

 

No No

I completely agree with you in disagreeing..

All you wrote about our kurdish problem was told us by the generals and officials for so many years..

You can keep writing them in english and I dont have any problem with that..

 

 

18.       CANLI
5084 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 11:27 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

 

 I don´t agree with you that what you posted has anything to do with the rights of Kurdish minorities, or their struggle to retain their culture, while forming an independent state. There a lot of realities under the appearances that you seem to miss, if you truly believe this is about justice or fairness. This is a political game.

 

 Ã agree with that.

Very interesting reading cynic.

19.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 11:35 pm

 I am yet to hear a Turkish general speak the way I wrote about the issue.

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

No No

I completely agree with you in disagreeing..

All you wrote about our kurdish problem was told us by the generals and officials for so many years..

You can keep writing them in english and I dont have any problem with that..

 

 

 

 

20.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Feb 2009 Sat 11:38 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

 I am yet to hear a Turkish general speak the way I wrote about the issue.

 

 

 

ha ha

well you are a good translater

But the ideas you mentioned above blong to the generals.. Nothing new really..

You dont want me to go and find what the generals said all those years about our kurdish problems for you I hope..



Edited (2/21/2009) by thehandsom

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