Are you aware that he is a fascist of all fascists with possibly blood in his hands?

You really dont know what you are talking about...

Are you sure about that? 

For you, who ever thinks of his country is a fascist... So i am not playing the same game under this conditions with you...

He has blood in his hands Sui..What are you talking about here?

Do you accept anybody  who  talks about nationalistic values, as a good and valuable man by default? 

He is a fascist and he has always been associated with many murders..

The history of Turkey had always been with blood and wars and killings etc... You cant change it!! Most of things has happened before i was born maybe... but as the courts doesnt give him any punishment, i have nothing more to say...

You have your values, i have my own... and for sure, they are not the same...

He is far more valuable for me, more than these thieves ruling my country.... Who just sees the "managing" as a family company...

I dont care if a killer committed his crime before you were born and I am sure some of his crimes were committed after the date of your birth..

A killer is a killer and a murderer is a murderer.. 

I am not letting anybody praising a fascist who has blood in his hands here..And I am not going to hesitate to hit any values a fascist can represent either.. 

Do you know, how the country you live in "peace" is working out??

Is it because of Democracy? Human rights?  For sure because of the people who are willing to work for the sake of UK! not because of you and your taxes...

What is this got to do with UK?

This is a guy got involved in killing young  TURKISH students in 1970s to start with. 

Killing of many Turkish intellects  have been associated with his name. Including Hrant Dink.

What are you trying to defend here really?

I am trying to show you that, it is no different in any place of the world...

There was a fight in those years, every side was killing eachother... which was not good... my father was facing problems while going to school... What you defend as intellects and turkish students (left wing) was also about to kill my father... this is his live experience not a piece of paper to be read...

Please... where is your human love and other stuff etc... at least you could say he would deserve to live as a human bla bla... but seems that you would be happy that he could be dead in this accident...

And also my point is, i am living in a country where my own citizens blood were shed! and you are living in a country that how you survive is because of the bloods shed in other countries!!

This is another topic! But what i would expect from you here is to ask that, why in Turkey in this century it is that hard to reach a wreckage!

If it is that hard then the lovely government seems that they had done nothing for 8 years!!!

It was not only him there, 5 more people!!!

Of course everyside got killed..And do not tell me what is a life experience and what is  reading the stories from a paper..

But how come you are coming here and defending a murderer of young students and Turkish intellects?

Am I going to be happy about his dead? Not particularly. But I am not going to deny that I wont shed a single drop of tear for him.. 

His face and his name always remind me blood and death..

I am still unable to understand the uk connection to a very well known fascist of Turkey to be honest..

It is so simple the relation with Uk, again you will bully as conspiracy theory but you are deadly blind to see that, the existance of the countries UK, USA etc. is based on such games towards the countries about to develop and with lots resources...

This is bare to see, easy to understand... the fascist and the guys with blood is in there!!! not in my country!!!

So you are living in a country where it is economy based on many other nations blood...

It was like this in the past, and will be continue in the future... As long as somebody with character and takes risks comes to government!!

If you have such hatred to those guys, then i am afraid you are no different than them on the contrary as you claim... But the court of the Turkey has given him no fine.

 you cant be serious!!!

in our culture we dont talk like this after ppl. what kind of personality u have??? dont you have a heart?

God Bless him!

Exactly what I was thinking!

I don´t know the heart of this man, and for sure thehandsom does not either.

May he rest in peace, and may his soul find mercy.

What do you mean by that?

I have already said that I am not going to be particularly happy  if he was dead. But I am not going to shed any tears either. 

Do you think we should have forgot what Hitler did and respect him because he  died? 

Does it change the fact that he was a fascist and blood in his hands?

I wish, he lives (but it seems abit unlikely now) and he was brought to justice in courts about what he has done to Turkey and Turks..

 it doesnt matter what is his political wiev, but he deserves respect.

nobody can know the heart of others,

but it seems this ´gay´ use everything for being populer on this site. and insult ppl who might be died.

he worked for this country...

What are you trying to say with the UK?  I am still not getting it. We are talking about a Turkish guy, a fascist person whose name has been associated with the murder of TURKS..

A person whose hands stained with the blood of Turkish people..

Are you trying to say that you respect this guy?

If UK is built on blood what is it got to do with me?

Are you trying to say that, people like this guy exist in the UK as well?

well if they do, tell me if Ihave praised any fascists from the UK?

I said, I dont wish him dead. Because I would rather want to see him in the court!!

 That he did, and he died working for his country.....may Allah have mercy on his soul....and all of those who were with him.

Would you say the same thing for Hitler?

He was a killer..

He organized many many killings of TURKS and Alevis..

He is a MURDERER GODS SAKE..

 how do you know this??

how come u accuse someone like this?

he might be died.

and we are sorry to lose a politican like him,

u are really a heartless person!!!

you never know intentions of those who work for the country as an ordinary citizen.I do not feel rightful to take part in a debate here guys,but I grew up in a culture that respects dead ppl no matter what they did except Hitler and Stalin -our eternal enemies.I find it strange theh  and at that time feel regretful for cynic being deleted as he probably would have much to say about your reference to Hitler.Strange that you compare your compatriots to Hitler not knowing much about him and never having your relatives or country men compelled by him...anyway..just my 2 grosze....

 Enough thehandsom....have a little grace and dignity. The man is dead and can not defend himself. 

Those around him who would or could defend him are in shock.  Have you ever heard of the saying, "don´t kick a man when he´s down"?

If you have such proof. why didn´t you take him to court. Instead you are here ranting against a man who has passed on and can not defend himself.

Do you want me to reply by swearing? will it be better? Of course it should be deleted...If I swear at you it should be deleted too..

what is crying about it?

YOU have no idea what you are talking about..

Are you still that Bitter?

 Are you serious.....?

 You have no idea of what I know....are you a mind reader, clairvoyant?

I do know what I wrote and I stand by it.

Of course I am serious..

he is calling me it in Turkish which means a dog...

I am sure you will join me that it should be deleted..yes?

Do you know how many TURKS blood on this guys hands?

You are a murderer supporter?

Do you want me to write here all the incidents he is involved in?

 actually, he said a little more than that.......but in my opinion, your talking so bad about someone who has just passed away is much worse.............it´s abominable.

So you are approving his message and and his swearing that it should not be deleted? 

Double face?

 ........I´ll repeat...."in my opinion, your talking so bad about someone who has just passed away is much worse.............it´s abominable."

and I´ll add rather cowardly under the circumstances.

and I might add that you provoked the response. You remind me of one of those guys who taunt a bull, then when it attacks...acts all innocent and cry, it attacked me.

 No.......and again no......and again no

.............but I wonder if  you do indeed have irrefutable proof of such incidents?

He is a classical example of right wing nationalists colliding with the rough elements in the state.

There have been many confessions from the various criminals but he was protected by the deep state.

Even JITEM (deep state´s killing machine was protected until recently)

If those proofs were given to the court in a half way decent democracy, he would be in jail..

I can start giving the incidents attributed to him with the confessions and proofs if you like.. 

But you did not answer my question really..

Are you supporting the swearings because it was not against you? 

Well you did SUPPORT earlier..

The Great Union Party (Turkish: Büyük Birlik Partisi - BBP) is a far-right nationalist and Islamist political party in Turkey, created in January 29, 1993.^[1] It is considered to be close to the Grey Wolves organization,^[2] and is related to the "Alperen Ocaklarý" tendency, which operated a synthesis between Islamism and Turkish ultra-nationalism, and separated itself from the Nationalist Work Party (MÇP), the successor of MHP in July 1992.^[1]

Founder Muhsin Yazýcýoðlu criticized the MHP for lack of religious convictions, thus leading to the creation of this new party. The party has been represented in the Parliament only via electoral coalitions with popular parties. At the 2002 legislative elections, the party won 1.1 % of the popular vote and no seats; in the 2007 elections Muhsin Yazýcýoðlu was elected as an independent.

Ogün Samast, the teenaged Turkish ultra-nationalist who assassinated Hrant Dink, a Turkish-Armenian journalist, is said to have links to this political party through its youth organization Alperen Ocaklarý (formerly known as Nizam-ý Alem Ocaklarý) and to the Grey Wolves.

One of the key figures in the assassination case, Yasin Hayal, is a former BBP member and his court expenses were financed by BBP authorities.

----------------------------------------------------------

Ultra-nationalist and islamist party? Two worst things put together...

 This is full of weasle words.....is said to....it is considered.....and it uses provocative terms like "far right" "Islamist" ...."ultra-nationalism"....it is hardly a neutral report.

Anyway, I did not want to get into Turkish politics...someone....in fact several...I think it´s 5 people perished in a helicopter accident. This is hardly the time to start this sort of commentary. Let people mourn!

 I do not support swearing....but I do recognize provocatation and I find it abhorrent. This is not about me, however much you might like to divert the conversation.

It is about people who have only in a matter of hours died and having some respect.....even if you don´t like them.

Why should anyone be expected to show respect for someone who just died if they didn´t respect what they did in their lives?  If a person did not live a respectful life then they did not EARN respect...period.  Demanding that someone to show respect just because someone has passed away is the epitome of hypocricy!  

Well girleegirl....obviously.....we have a difference of opinion. I disagree with you.....but I respect your right to have a different opinion....and you didn´t even have to earn that right. ....after you show yourself...that respect may diminish....

........but I respect death and those who mourn.

 GG, you comment but it is invalid as because Muhsin Yazýcýoglu was elected in the last elections, as an independent diplomat! this means from that region he took over more than %10 percent votes!

I think he was someone who was respected!

Due to the definitions given in internet! Especially in vikipedia those are filled by any person! You cant imagine how silly informations i find about people!

The questions should be asked about this event is not the character of the dead people here... BUT how come they cant find the wreckage!!! please wake up you all!!!!

They still have not found the wreckage???? It is hard to find news about this here.  So..the man who made the phone call has not been found either?  You are quite right....why has the wreckage not been found.

I completely agree with you! A person does not deserve respect just because she/he is dead! I don´t know anything about this person (although an ultra nationalist, islamic party does not sound good at all!), so I"m not commenting about him, just in general.

I grew up with similar customs of "not talking badly about the dead" and honestly, I think it´s a load of crap. People still think badly of them, and just lie to one another only because they don´t want to be talked badly about themselves after they die. That´s so much easier then actually analyzing their behavior and owning up to it! It´s hypocrisy and lies, and it´s disgusting.

 No my comment is not invalid.  I don´t know a thing about this particular man.  That is not my point. 

I didn´t say that people can´t have respect for him....I said that someone who didn´t respect him when he was alive would be a hypocrite to feign respect because of his death.  

Well alameda.....your respect me and my rights really has no impact on me whatsoever. 

Yes....YOU respect death and those who morun and that is YOUR right....but you are trying to tell handsom that he has to do the same as you.   Calling him abhorrent for not doing so (and yet again you don´t say anything about crude attacks except to say they were provoked). 

It doesn´t seem as if they found the wreckage yet....

Search efforts fail to locate crashed BBP leader’s chopper

Why don´t you try reading my actual comment again:

"I do not support swearing....but I do recognize provocatation and I find it abhorrent. This is not about me, however much you might like to divert the conversation."

I was very careful to not call him abhorent....or tell him what to do.

It can be very difficult to find a downed plane in rough terrain, especially in the bad weather being described. Sometimes it takes months. The uncertainty and dread must be tearing the family members to pieces.

I feel very badly about the victims of this accident. In my mind there is a constant image of the poor reporter with a broken leg who is freezing to death while waiting for help. I know nothing of the politics or history of the people  in this crash and I am sad for them all. I don´t understand those who feel no sympathy or compassion for victims of an  accident like this.

There was a plane crash in my city last Sunday: no survivors. Seven adults killed, seven children killed. Three families wiped out. Perhaps this has clouded my thinking on the subject.

Ok, so you didn´t call him abhorrent.....but let´s just see what you did call him....

 Ahhhh yes....abominable and cowardly.....so much better!  Much more careful of you!!!   

I really have to wonder about the kind of person thinks it is more acceptable to curse and make vile comments to someone who is right here than it is to talk about someone who has died!! 

i am surprised that some democrat and open minded members of this site can be as fascist as people they blame. i agree he must have been in court for what he did during those years but  He is now freezing, dying but you still say " i dont care, he is a fascist murderer, he doesnt deserve respect just because he is dead bla bla".  i think that to say he deserves to die because what he has done in the past is very inhuman. and also  i wonder why dont you get so hateful when you talk about kurdish or leftist murderers.  why do you  get very humanist then ? and why not now? and yes in our culture we respect dead... at least while his/ her family is still crying.

Very brillant chiko! I am glad to know you! Even though you are a Fenerbahce supporter

I may have missed the point here but reading through the thread I can´t see where thehandsom has said that he is glad this man is dead or dying or that he deserves to die.  I thought his original  post was merely disagreeing with the opinion that he was a good man deserving respect.

I would not respect him when he was alive and my level of respect wont change if he is not alive..

I have already mentioned that I am completely indifferent to this incident..

He should have taken to the court and brought to justice. 

If You call me as fascist as  him because I dont shed any tears for him you are welcome to. (I did not shed any tears for Abdullah Catli, I did not shed any tears for Polpot, I wont shed any tears for Kenan Evren  either for example) 

 You are very magnanimous and open minded Chiko.  Be sure that the nationalists who agree with you now, will not be as humanist as you when kurdish or leftist murderers are killed.   I don´t fully agree with the obligation to respect ALL dead, but I respect that it is your culture and admire your way of thinking

 wait wait he will answer!

dont be so excited when some wrote sometihg bad about him.

did he wake u up last night??? and cried u some ppl behaving him badly???

Look

You are just simply ´swearing´ like a small child..

I dont think you still get how childish you look when you swear.

It is only exciting for the ones who gets the kick from swearing words..

 Reports coming through that they found the wreckage 45 mins ago in a dip in very bad terrain. It has been freezing. It is too early for any news on survivors.

I removed some posts due to personal attacks.

Personal attacks on TC - that must be a first

It was the first time EVER it happened in TC.. 

 
I think legend tells a different story!!!

I guess it is official now:

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Turkish searchers found the body of the leader of a right-wing political party and the wreckage of his helicopter on Friday, two days after it crashed during election campaigning, broadcaster CNN Turk said...

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52Q45N20090327

 Offering my condolence, May ALLAH rest his soul.

Because its part of our culture just as chiko said, even if he was bad, still now DEFFÝNÝTELY is not the suitable time to pick on him and discuss his crimes !

We can do this later ´if he had crimes´ when his family´s tears gets dry

 Amin!

matter of perception. of course, tormenting a mourning family is not right, but we can discuss his crimes at any time we want. sorry, this is our culture!

 Hmmmm, so you go to people´s funerals and pick on them and discuss their crimes ?

This is your culture ?!

Sui opend a thread saying that flan flan was in Helicopter crashes and the first respond he got ...´´Well, he deserved ! ´´

So that is the perception you mean ?

Well.... good to know !

Did Anybody say  "he deserved that"?

Are we at his funeral???

Ý have replied to both handsom and your posts but deleted them after taking a look at the thread.

Ý dont think its appropriate to talk about culture differences or who said what and how in this thread ´in my opinion´

So im sorry for debating it.

 Have my sympathy again and im sorry for your loss .

Even if he was behind those killings, if someone passed away we should just hope God forgives him and bless his soul. Why should one prefers that he lives and be trialed in court.. what justice is there in the courts today?  Let God be the judge. It is not about culture.. it is only human to feel compassion for the dead. Our turn will come someday.

Anyway shouldnt be too hard on thehandsome lol.. it´s just a natural reaction to the death of  someone. who in his opinion, was a traitor..not like he is rejoicing over his death right?.. like how some people rejoiced over Saddam´s execution...or when the shoe hit President Bush lol

This is nothing to do with cultural differences..

I was not sorry and I did not shed a single drop of tear when Muhsin Yazicioglu´s dear friend, his comrade Abdullah Catli  died either.

I would not blame a Chilean person who did not feel sorry  when Pinochet died either. 

(btw..´not feeling sorry does NOT mean you are happy and jumping up and down with joy´ )

And of course, I am sure somebody can come up and say that ´he is dead now and Offering my condolence, May ALLAH rest his soul.´ and some one may come with ´amin´.

He had involvements with kahramanmaras massacare in 1978  -Turkish- (hundreds were killed women-childeren included ).. (btw..this massacre is just ´one´ example of many of his involvements)

There is a saying in Turkish it is said as ´Kan cagirirmis´ which can be translated as ´the blood always calls you back´.

And curiously he died in Kahraman Maras.

 mwaah

 +1

me too grew up with this crap.

no matter dead or living, truth must be said.

i always hated being silenced with so many stupid customs.