Why not? They both killed their own country men with the pretext of nationalism by accusing the others whom they killed as traitors. (the difference is the numbers of people they killed)

Sui was praising a guy who was a well known fascist and associated with killings of some people (They were killed beacuse of their religion, because of their political orientations)

Nobody has said ´well he deserved´..that is just your perception and understanding!!

You understand that way..That is the cultural difference..(and that cultural difference is nothing to do with east and west!!!)

Are there those that actually agree with me...that Freedom, not only comes at a price, but has a responsibility with it? It would be nice to hear

 Kiara..you are too sweet for TC....u remind me in my first incarnation))))))))))Freedom is choices,choices according to your inner self..true one..not always visible in virtual reality)))

Btw..welcome)))

 lol have you said that handsom about the Turkish anthem ?! lol

What would you expect an anthem to say if not praise the country and the people with proud too?!

For example, what would you expect people who pay their blood in the battle field to say ?

As i remember you were/ are also against ´´ happy who is Turk ´´ ...yes ?!

What would you expect a Turk to say then ?

Happy who is American, brit, French ..?!

Again Turk are sons and daughters of Türkiye, not a race

We have similar saying too ´´if im not an Egyptian, i would loved to be an Egyptian´´

Being proud of who you are isnt something bad, is it ?!

Same also our National anthem praise our nation and our people, what would it praise then ?!

My country, my country, my country.
You have my love and my heart.

Mýsýr ´Egypt´! O mother of all lands,
My hope and my ambition,
And on all people
Your Nile has countless graces

My country, my country, my country,
My love and my heart are for thee.

Mýsýr ´Egypt´! Most precious jewel,
Shining on the brow of eternity!
O my homeland, be for ever free,
Safe from every foe!

My homeland, my homeland, my homeland,
My love and my heart are for thee.

Mýsýr ´Egypt´! Noble are your children,
Loyal, and guardians of the reins.
It will attain high aspirations
With their unity and with mine.

My homeland, my homeland, my homeland,
My love and my heart are for thee.

Mýsýr ´Egypt´, land of bounties
You ruled with ancient glory
My purpose is to repel the enemy
And on God I rely.
 

And as for the dead people, you dont show respect to the person...there is no more person handsom, he already died, you show respect to the death of that person.

To the idea that he is no longer here .

Ýts part of our culture and surely you are aware of it very well because its also yours

Not everything belong to our culture is a bad thing handsom !

You can show your disapproval with him later, but not at the same moment that person died !

Btw handsom, do you find anything  about Türkiye, Turks, traditions..etc that you like at all ?! Seems to me in your opinions, all are wrong and should be changed !

Just wondering !

I think we have discussed this many times..

Even NOW Our president says that ´we have to look at inside the borders for our KURDISH PROBLEM´

The entire foreign elements were invented by the generals and nationalists to unite people for a ´common enemy´. This is a very well known tactic and people in Turkey is not buying it anymore..

I have never supported any terrorist bombings here. It is just your assumption that if a person talks about ´kurdish rights´ that person MUST BE SUPPORTING TERRORISM..

I explained hundered times here why we have lost 40 to 70 thousands people..The main reason of course not accepting that ´it was not a foreign thing..It was internal and it was caused bu our TURKISH nationalism´  

About Ataturk...Where did you see me supporting sheria driven primitive medi evil sultanate?

Again, you are jumping into conlusion that is someone says ´Ataturk was a dictator in his time -when you look at him with today´s values- and he might have lied´, that person must be hating Ataturk and supporting the sultanate..Eh? This is what I call ´seeing  Ataturk as  semi god´. Ataturk himself was against all the gods!!!!!

About Yazicioglu , He was a murderer and a fascist like his dear friend ´Abdullah Catli´. Please do not force me to come back here with the list of Turkish people he was involved in their murder..

I dont have an anger at all about my beautiful Turkey at all. I love it into pieces so as my friends..This is my country and apart from her nationalists I am so proud of it..

But of course, because of  some of Turks´ nationalism extends itself to racism, we will not stop loving our country.

That was the way it is in the past  and that will be the way it will be..  

when turkish army were bombing PKK camps, u were very angry. and when all turkey is praying for our soldiars, u were worrying about terrorists. one of your friends who came here with different nicknames (once he was gernas) and supported ur ideas told that "you ( turkish army) will not win, u will be lost in these mountains" . can you tell me what kind of love is this? if you dont like any pieces of our values dont wait me believe you that u love this country. coz u are already out of these values. u can have turkish name but u are not a part of this country. there are thousands of ppl like you who has turkish name but couldnt be a part of this country. if you cant tolerate and respect any national value of this country, as millions of turkish ppl can die for these values, u cant say u love this country. of course u love these lands but not like us, u love these lands like an armenian or greek...

u are talking about a list. I think there is only u who has a list of died ppl. it s easy to accuse someone. I can prepare a list and accuse whoever I want. dont be funny.

Nationalism is not a bad thing, do you think there is not nationalism in europe???

have u ever been in a foreign office in europe??? have u ever tried to speak with another language in official place in an europen country?

Ý was planning to give my 2 pennies in short after reading the thread overall, i should have known better, visiting TLC always takes more time than expected lol

Ok overall i agree with some here and disagree with some.

Ý agree with Jan on somethings and also agree with cat at another things.

Of course there are culture differnces, and what is acceptable to some, not acceptable to others

What can be seen as freedom of speech to some, can be seen as crossing the lines to others with degrees.

What can be seen by some as crap and they are glad they have changed their concept about it, can be seen by others as a respectable concepts and they do NOT want to change it to something else.

They are convinced by what they believe and dont want to change it

As you may see that is wrong and should be changed, they also see what you believe is wrong too.

Judging this as crap actually isnt a right of anyone at all

As it is not my right to judge those who have change in their concepts or those who have another concept to begin with.

Taking that thread of helicopter crash as an example.

A man died, and Sui wanted to share his feelings here with us, sad and worried ´before his death confirmed´ so first thing to say...well he deserved, he was such a bad guy ?!

By any mean is this acceptable ?!

To us..nope

Debate being carried away, and some try to make that clear that we should respect the dead, the man blood wasnt even dried yet !

So would the answer be that is a stupid tradition to respect the dead and its crap ?!

Ý dont think so !

We have differences in culture and we are all aware of that...as you demand others to have a space of freedom in the speech and to differentiate between criticism and expression one opinion and insults

Would it be that hard to respect also the concepts, traditions  of others too ?!

Somethings you see like freedom of speech in other culture its crossing the lines, exactly at in that thread

Respecting the dead!

Our traditions maybe strange to some of you, some dont understand, some dont want to understand, other think its nonsense and they are happy they dont believe in them any more but its not like that to us

Ýf we REALLY dont believe in them we wouldnt demanding to respect them, mutual respect.

Numbers of Turks and Easterns here are not much, not as same as Westerns, so their voices are not as stronger as Westerns too, but that doesnt mean what they believe and think is wrong and what Westerns believe and think is right.

Ým sorry that i had to use those 2 words which cause lots of arguments before but the case is culture differences

Like it or not, we have it, not only here at TLC but in the outside world too.

Hopefully we can sort our things here at TLC and reach some sort of understanding between us.

Ok that is more than 2 pennies...and im running out of time, see you guys !

Like it or not, we have it, not only here at TLC but in the outside world too.

Hopefully we can sort our things here at TLC and reach some sort of understanding between us.