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No men allowed in Erzurum!
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1.       Trudy
7887 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:20 am

No men allowed in milk factory

 

Only women will work at a newly built milk- and milk-products factory in the eastern province of Erzurum. The factory, which will focus on organic products, will export its products to Europe. The Eastern Anatolia Agricultural Producers Union, or DATÜB, built the facility for 1.5 million Turkish Liras. According to DATÜB Chairman Nazmi Ilýcalý, the factory, located near the town of Aziziye, will produce 20 million liras worth of products every year. Ilýcalý said the factory was built in accordance with European Union norms. “We registered all the cows as certified by a control company and then established 15 milk production centers in nearby villages,” he said. The milk collected at the centers will be used to produce organic butter and various types of cheese. Nineteen women underwent a three-month course on organic milk production, Ilýcalý said, adding, “We know that women are more hygienic and careful, and that’s why we decided to employ them.” Added Utkum Organic Milk Products Factory Manager Ayþe Baþaktekin: “Unfortunately, women are the most ignored section of society in the east and the southeast of the country.” Baþaktekin, who will head the women’s-only factory, said her employees’ husbands and fathers had acquiesced to sending their wives and daughters off to the factory to work. Hülya Adanalý, 21, who will be one of the employees, said she was very excited to work for the first time in her life. “We will get minimum wage and be insured,” she said. “It is very nice to know that we will be able to stand on our two feet.”

 

Source: hürriyet.com

*******

See, women are better! lol lol

2.       Iceheart_Omnis
106 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 12:12 pm

 

See, women are better! lol lol

 

If someone opened a factory where only men could work, it would be rightfully denounced as something unfair, unequal and whatnot, but if it´s a factory where only women can work, the feminists call it "progressive"...and certainly would NOT complain about people being discriminated.

 



Edited (8/22/2009) by Iceheart_Omnis

3.       bydand
755 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 01:06 pm

 

Quoting Iceheart_Omnis

 

 

If someone opened a factory where only men could work, it would be rightfully denounced as something unfair, unequal and whatnot, but if it´s a factory where only women can work, the feminists call it "progressive"...and certainly would NOT complain about people being discriminated.

 

 Dangerous ideas to float on here.  <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

 



Edited (8/22/2009) by bydand

4.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 04:14 pm

That´s pretty sexist...unless it´s not really a milk factory but an erotic massage facility lol

5.       lady in red
6947 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 04:52 pm

.....it is a fact that women are much more hygienic than men though

6.       catwoman
8933 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 05:53 pm

It is hard for me to believe that this is a sexist project, because women, somewhere in Erzunum have probably no political power to be able to carry out a project that is directly against the benefits of the power (men). Therefore, I think that this funny reason, that "women are more hygenic that men", could be just a face for a project that intends to employ the women of the region. If you say that this is for everybody, then in the traditional families, the women will either not be allowed to go to work, or "naturally", it will be the man who will get the job first. There will also be employment discrimination to employ men over women, because they may be suspecting that the women will not devote themselves completely to their jobs, because they also have the house and children to take care of (that their husbands don´t raise a finger to help with).

So it sounds like a good project that could potentially help in changing the mentality of "women should stay at home and raise children", which leaves women totally at the mercy of men and with no political and financial power.

7.       Trudy
7887 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 06:01 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

It is hard for me to believe that this is a sexist project, because women, somewhere in Erzunum have probably no political power to be able to carry out a project that is directly against the benefits of the power (men). Therefore, I think that this funny reason, that "women are more hygenic that men", could be just a face for a project that intends to employ the women of the region. If you say that this is for everybody, then in the traditional families, the women will either not be allowed to go to work, or "naturally", it will be the man who will get the job first. There will also be employment discrimination to employ men over women, because they may be suspecting that the women will not devote themselves completely to their jobs, because they also have the house and children to take care of (that their husbands don´t raise a finger to help with).

So it sounds like a good project that could potentially help in changing the mentality of "women should stay at home and raise children", which leaves women totally at the mercy of men and with no political and financial power.

 

 My idea too!

8.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 08:36 pm

 

Quoting Iceheart_Omnis

 

 

If someone opened a factory where only men could work, it would be rightfully denounced as something unfair, unequal and whatnot, but if it´s a factory where only women can work, the feminists call it "progressive"...and certainly would NOT complain about people being discriminated.

 

 

eh, they call themselves "feminists" and you expect them not to be sexist? that`s contradicting <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

9.       catwoman
8933 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 08:44 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

eh, they call themselves "feminists" and you expect them not to be sexist? that`s contradicting <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

 

ignorance and asshole-ness just makes a nasty combination You crazy?

10.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 08:46 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

 

 

ignorance and asshole-ness just makes a nasty combination You crazy?

 

in your case? <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

11.       catwoman
8933 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 08:47 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

in your case? <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

 

this multiple personality disorder guy called tami lol

12.       catwoman
8933 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 09:06 pm

Tami boy, stay away from insulting people who are not involved with you. Especially Admin.

This sort of thing may result in your account deletion without a warning.



Edited (8/22/2009) by catwoman

13.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 09:52 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

Tami boy, stay away from insulting people who are not involved with you. Especially Admin.

This sort of thing may result in your account deletion without a warning.

 

can you prove us that I "insulted" someone, especially Admin?

14.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:17 pm

 

Quoting Iceheart_Omnis

 

 

If someone opened a factory where only men could work, it would be rightfully denounced as something unfair, unequal and whatnot, ..

 

 

Not only specifically in Turkey but there are many many places or industries  ONLY MEN work or many places only MEN would go..

Start with coffee houses in Turkey. Normally women would not go there..

So let these women whom some of them  have been not worth more than a cow in their husbands eyes, work a little bit and also  taste tiny bit of economic freedom..

I can see no harm nor sexism in that project..



Edited (8/22/2009) by thehandsom

15.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:22 pm

Why women dont have the same status on mosques like men ?

16.       Trudy
7887 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:31 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Why women dont have the same status on mosques like men ?

 

 Because some guys think that women should be covered and/or out of their eyesight, these guys are not able to control their own hormones when they are praying.

17.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:33 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Why women dont have the same status on mosques like men ?

 

What?

Are you serious? what if the men see the women bending up and down infront of them during praying? lol..

(There was a hodja recently and  he was saying that barbi toys are quite sexy looking..lol what do you think that type of guy may think during the pray? eh? ha ha )

 

18.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:34 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Because some guys think that women should be covered and/or out of their eyesight, these guys are not able to control their own hormones when they are praying.

 

      This cant be called ´sexism´ isnt it ?But having a factory where only women are allowded to work it is called ´sexism´.

19.       Trudy
7887 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:37 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

 

 

      This cant be called ´sexism´ isnt it ?But having a factory where only women are allowded to work it is called ´sexism´.

 

 When this type of men is shutted out they feel insulted and discriminated. Still they think they have the right to do it to women. Why? Well, they are guys so for them that´s reason enough.

20.       Trudy
7887 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:39 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

What?

Are you serious? what if the men see the women bending up and down infront of them during praying? lol..

(There was a hodja recently and  he was saying that barbi toys are quite sexy looking..lol what do you think that type of guy may think during the pray? eh? ha ha )

 

 

 If a man is not able to control his own thoughts and shut things out especially with something important as praying, what´s than left of his human ´intelligence´?

21.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:44 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

What?

Are you serious? what if the men see the women bending up and down infront of them during praying? lol..

(There was a hodja recently and  he was saying that barbi toys are quite sexy looking..lol what do you think that type of guy may think during the pray? eh? ha ha )

 

 

 We are going together at church men on right women on left side....are our men impotents ???? acaba..

22.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:55 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

 

 

 We are going together at church men on right women on left side....are our men impotents ???? acaba..

 

why are men on the rigt side and women on the left side? isn`t that sexism?<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

23.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 10:57 pm

Maybe they arent so impotent as i thought.....Roll eyes

24.       catwoman
8933 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 11:03 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 If a man is not able to control his own thoughts and shut things out especially with something important as praying, what´s than left of his human ´intelligence´?

 

if a man is not able to control his feelings then it is HIS problem, HE has to deal with it, maybe go to a psychiatrist or something.. and take consequences of his stupid thoughts or behaviors.

trust me though, this is only an excuse. if they want, they can very well control their thoughts.

25.       wanasa
6 posts
 22 Aug 2009 Sat 11:52 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Maybe they arent so impotent as i thought.....Roll eyes

 

 Thats wrong. You need update your record. No one stop women to go to mosque same like man.

 

"When the wife of one of you asks about going to the mosque, do not stop her." (Bukhari)

 

Now if the women does´t like to go in men is another thing.  You can see in world a lot of mosques full with women even the House Of Allah (Makkah).

 

26.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 12:04 am

Thanks for information....Ý will try to check it

27.       Trudy
7887 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 12:23 am

 

Quoting wanasa

 

 

 Thats wrong. You need update your record. No one stop women to go to mosque same like man.

 

"When the wife of one of you asks about going to the mosque, do not stop her." (Bukhari)

 

Now if the women does´t like to go in men is another thing.  You can see in world a lot of mosques full with women even the House Of Allah (Makkah).

 

 

 Then tell me why I cannot enter in many mosques - neatly dressed and with a scarf - through the same door as men? Why am I sent upstairs to a closed area where I can´t see a thing?

28.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 01:06 pm

 double post



Edited (8/23/2009) by _AE_

29.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 01:08 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Then tell me why I cannot enter in many mosques - neatly dressed and with a scarf - through the same door as men? Why am I sent upstairs to a closed area where I can´t see a thing?

 

 It is a MOSQUE!!!  You say you are happy to bow to tradition and wear a headscarf but are rebelling that you are sent to a separate area to the men?  Nobody is asking you to go there, it is not your religion, you are just visiting, so why the big problem?

30.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 01:20 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 It is a MOSQUE!!!  You say you are happy to bow to tradition and wear a headscarf but are rebelling that you are sent to a separate area to the men?  Nobody is asking you to go there, it is not your religion, you are just visiting, so why the big problem?

 

This is same as ´you are not muslim and it is none of your business´ 

I would  expect this type of comments  from  strong islamists or Johnny Turkish type  people!! 

31.       Trudy
7887 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 01:20 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 It is a MOSQUE!!!  You say you are happy to bow to tradition and wear a headscarf but are rebelling that you are sent to a separate area to the men?  Nobody is asking you to go there, it is not your religion, you are just visiting, so why the big problem?

 

 Gosh, just back and already showing reading unability? If you read correctly I wasn´t saying I am rebelling, but I was asking questions after the statement that no one can withhold a woman to enter a mosque the same way as men.

32.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 01:22 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Gosh, just back and already showing reading unability? If you read correctly I wasn´t saying I am rebelling, but I was asking questions after the statement that no one can withhold a woman to enter a mosque the same way as men.

 

 I had no trouble reading your post, I just think you are trying to prove your point with a very weak argument.  I am amazed that you would even wish to don a headscarf and visit a mosque when your feeilngs about Islam are very clear

33.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 01:24 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Gosh, just back and already showing reading unability? If you read correctly I wasn´t saying I am rebelling, but I was asking questions after the statement that no one can withhold a woman to enter a mosque the same way as men.

 

Ha ha 

I think a new character is emerging  with this new nick : ´Islam supporter´ lol lol  

34.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 01:34 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Ha ha 

I think a new character is emerging  with this new nick : ´Islam supporter´ lol lol  

 

 My views on all religions have never changed, I just don´t understand why you would visit a mosque if you are against Islam - unless you just want to report the "experience" back in your travel log

35.       wanasa
6 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 02:00 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Then tell me why I cannot enter in many mosques - neatly dressed and with a scarf - through the same door as men? Why am I sent upstairs to a closed area where I can´t see a thing?

 

 There is no mosque in this world where you cant enter. Sure, No one stop you. You can enter same door as men.  Even you are not a muslim no one will stop you to see anything. Who told you that you will be sent upstairs to a closed area? Try once you will find people with more good charactor in the mosque.

36.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 02:01 pm

Ý have nothing against Ýslam and also nothing against the milk factory were only women are allowded to work.

37.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 02:08 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Ý have nothing against Ýslam and also nothing against the milk factory were only women are allowded to work.

 

 And I have nothing against Quakers, chocolate factories (with or without Charlie) and Stavros Flatley

38.       Trudy
7887 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 03:29 pm

 

Quoting wanasa

 

 

 There is no mosque in this world where you cant enter. Sure, No one stop you. You can enter same door as men.  Even you are not a muslim no one will stop you to see anything. Who told you that you will be sent upstairs to a closed area? Try once you will find people with more good charactor in the mosque.

 

 Sounds good but it isn´t true. I have been stopped many times in many mosques. In Turkey, Sri Lanka, Egypt and The Gambia.

39.       foka
597 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 03:59 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Sounds good but it isn´t true. I have been stopped many times in many mosques. In Turkey, Sri Lanka, Egypt and The Gambia.

 

yeap you could add Poland and Germany also....always they will send you to close area ...

40.       birdy
245 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:11 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

  I have been stopped many times in many mosques. In Turkey, Sri Lanka, Egypt and The Gambia.

 

 Since you have been stopped many times and still with the maniac mind you have been making a poor fist at entering it must be a direct sign that it is high time to convert.Mosques are for praying if you haven´t noticed yet,not for your flavour of the week,month or year.Don´t be a dabbler!

41.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:21 pm

You have to be a ´PSYCHO-logist´ to look above comments and ignore what the topic is really..

Two things are said:

1-  ´no one stops women going into mosques´

2-  ´I have been stopped many many times´..

now..what do you see above?

I see that the person who told us number 1 is either not knowing islam or lying..

Now you ignore all and go and attack the person who says number 2 ..

 

lol lol 

As I said you have to be a ´PSYCHO-logist´ to be like that!!

Geez!!!




Edited (8/23/2009) by thehandsom

42.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:29 pm

Of course you cant enter in a mosque as  turist at what time you want. They have program for visit and program for praying...But in church you can enter even if its praying time started ....even as a turist..

43.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:31 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

You have to be a ´PSYCHO-logist´ to look above comments and ignore what the topic is really..

As I said you have to be a ´PSYCHO-logist´ to be like that!!

Geez!!!


 

 Its great to see nothing changed around here!  Thehandsom still writes carte blanche with complete impunity, while those who disagree and use such insults are threatened with deletion without warning lol lol lol

44.       birdy
245 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:36 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 Its great to see nothing changed around here!  Thehandsom still writes carte blanche with complete impunity, while those who disagree and use such insults are threatened with deletion without warning lol lol lol

yeah,old TC...I wonder when he will start whining,crying and asking for posts deletion<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'>

45.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:39 pm

ha ha

Well good to see you both in the same camp girls...

You are perfect together..lol lol 

46.       foka
597 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:40 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

ha ha

Well good to see you both in the same camp girls...

You are perfect together..lol lol 

 

AE+ Birdy= TC warriors

47.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:41 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

ha ha

Well good to see you both in the same camp girls...

You are perfect together..lol lol 

 

 It is highly amusing that your ego allows you to imagine that the only reason people disagree with you is because they are in a "camp" (or would you prefer harem?) - is there any tiny place in your brain which allows you to think that we may just be individually disagreeing with you?

48.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:43 pm

Ýn conclusion No men allowed in milk factory from Erzurum Flowers

49.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:44 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Ýn conclusion No men allowed in milk factory from Erzurum Flowers

 

 Hahahaha post of the year lol

50.       foka
597 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:45 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Ýn conclusion No men allowed in milk factory from Erzurum Flowers

 

ReyhanL are you peacemaker today?  

51.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:48 pm

Ý have a good reason to be like this today Satisfied nod

52.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:48 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Sounds good but it isn´t true. I have been stopped many times in many mosques. In Turkey, Sri Lanka, Egypt and The Gambia.

 

 Mosques are house of God, we build them to pray in them not for people to visit as sight seeing ...thats the purpose of them.

We as muslims have our rules of praying as any other religion also has.

Ýn ours, women pray in a different place other than men, we dont actually go to see things but to pray, so Mosques fulfil their jobs for us.

Never the less, no one can stop anyone from visiting the mosque too.

Ýf we want to visit the Mosque and see things as you say, we do it on not praying times, no one stop us  from entering any mosque on that time, but at praying times its not acceptable, we are not sight or something so people come and watch us while we pray !

When we visit at non praying time and anyone point out to the place where women pray as a nice gesture from them assuming that we want to pray so they help directing us to the right place, we just say thank you, im visiting the mosque and then i will pray . ´ As Muslim when we enter a mosque to visit mosque  we pray a greeting pray for the mosque´ 

Ýn here Egypt, as muslims we cant visit any Church, we actually cant enter as long as we are muslims not at praying times, or non at any times, unless that Church is ancient one and open for public, but on the other hand, you can enter any mosque no matter old or new.

53.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:51 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Mosques are house of God, we build them to pray in them not for people to visit as sight seeing ...thats the purpose of them.

We as muslims have our rules of praying as any other religion also has.

Ýn ours, women pray in a different place other than men, we dont actually go to see things but to pray, so Mosques fulfil their jobs for us.

Never the less, no one can stop anyone from visiting the mosque too.

Ýf we want to visit the Mosque and see things as you say, we do it on not praying times, no one stop us  from entering any mosque on that time, but at praying times its not acceptable, we are not sight or something so people come and watch us while we pray !

When we visit at non praying time and anyone point out to the place where women pray as a nice gesture from them assuming that we want to pray so they help directing us to the right place, we just say thank you, im visiting the mosque and then i will pray . ´ As Muslim when we enter a mosque to visit mosque  we pray a greeting pray for the mosque´ 

 

The perfect reply I believe

 



Edited (8/23/2009) by _AE_

54.       foka
597 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:53 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Ý have a good reason to be like this today Satisfied nod

 

Oki Rey  

by the way   good job !!!!!! Thank you, thank you!

55.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:55 pm

Mosques..the way of praying of muslims are a big attraction for foreigners...i will never want this to change. Ý fell inlove with Turkey because of this

56.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:55 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 ..., you can enter any mosque no matter old or new.

 

I have been many places and in those places as a woman if you want to enter a mosque as a visiter they would not  let you.

I am happy to take you to the mosque where I went  when I was a child and you can try it yourself..

it is in istanbul btw..

57.       wanasa
6 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:56 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Sounds good but it isn´t true. I have been stopped many times in many mosques. In Turkey, Sri Lanka, Egypt and The Gambia.

 

 May I know how many times you was allowed to enter in mosques in the same countries?

58.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:56 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Of course you cant enter in a mosque as  turist at what time you want. They have program for visit and program for praying...But in church you can enter even if its praying time started ....even as a turist..

 

 Not in here in afraid, as long as you are muslim you cant enter any Church except they are ancient ones .

59.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 04:59 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Not in here in afraid, as long as you are muslim you cant enter any Church except they are ancient ones .

Are you sure they are not trying to protect themselves from vandalism? 

 

60.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:02 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I have been many places and in those places as a woman if you want to enter a mosque as a visiter they would not  let you.

I am happy to take you to the mosque where I went  when I was a child and you can try it yourself..

it is in istanbul btw..

 

 On the other hand i dont have to take you to many many mosques when you can visit them when you want no matter man or a woman you are  

61.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:03 pm

Much as I hate to defend any religion ( ) I really can´t see what all the fuss is about here.  So what if sometimes women tourists are refused entry to mosques?  They are not tourist attractions, they are places for prayer and if people are not comfortable with tourists staring at them, for any reason at all, so what?  Nobody is asking you to go there, its your decision.

 

Having observed western tourists in my travels, whilst there are many who are respectful in temples, churches and mosques, many are NOT.  They give no consideration to clothing worn, they do not respect people who have gone there to pray, they talk loudly, laugh, shout, take photographs and even swear!  Blame them!

62.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:04 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Not in here in afraid, as long as you are muslim you cant enter any Church except they are ancient ones .

 

 Ãn ortodox churches (as i know in Romania) everyone can enter no matter if he is jewish or muslim....God is for all who wants to step in His house

63.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:05 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

Much as I hate to defend any religion ( ) I really can´t see what all the fuss is about here.  So what if sometimes women tourists are refused entry to mosques?  They are not tourist attractions, they are places for prayer and if people are not comfortable with tourists staring at them, for any reason at all, so what?  Nobody is asking you to go there, its your decision.

 

Having observed western tourists in my travels, whilst there are many who are respectful in temples, churches and mosques, many are NOT.  They give no consideration to clothing worn, they do not respect people who have gone there to pray, they talk loudly, laugh, shout, take photographs and even swear!  Blame them!

 

ha ha ha 

I wil put this into a second position in the list of "Post of the year" lol lol  

64.       wanasa
6 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:06 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Mosques..the way of praying of muslims are a big attraction for foreigners...i will never want this to change. Ý fell inlove with Turkey because of this

 

 Thanks. Sure we give respect to our visitors in our mosques. We never send them upstairs or close them to small rooms. If some people have done this due to any reason, we are sorry. But plz dont blame on entire muslim world.

65.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:10 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

Are you sure they are not trying to protect themselves from vandalism? 

 

 

 Hmmmmmmm, i dont like the hint handsom, and they arent appropriate too

Still i will reply it...

1. Then as muslims we have same right to stop anyone not muslim from entering our mosques

2. As we are 70 million muslim here in Egypt, and Christians are almost 7 or 8 million so if we wanted to destory or vandalize the Churches, we could do it easily.

By logic, 70 million could protect the 7 million and their properities not the other way around !

 

Btw, havent you got board yet from repeating/spreading how bad muslims are ?!

66.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:10 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 On the other hand i dont have to take you to many many mosques when you can visit them when you want no matter man or a woman you are  

 

Well

As I said, as a woman you wont be able to go to those mosques..

As a man, of course I can go into any mosque I want to..

That was the whole point..

 

ps..I am not claiming that I am a good mosque person but in mosques I have been , I saw women in Macca-kabe only and women were at the back section and it was like a cafe (I used to call it´ Kabe cafe´

67.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:13 pm

 

Quoting wanasa

 

 

 Thanks. Sure we give respect to our visitors in our mosques. We never send them upstairs or close them to small rooms. If some people have done this due to any reason, we are sorry. But plz dont blame on entire muslim world.

 

 wanasa, i believe they meant by ´sending to upstairs´ send women to women´s praying places, and we do that at praying times and we dont have to apologize for that !

 

68.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:13 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Hmmmmmmm, i dont like the hint handsom, and they arent appropriate too

Still i will reply it...

1. Then as muslims we have same right to stop anyone not muslim from entering our mosques

2. As we are 70 million muslim here in Egypt, and Christians are almost 7 or 8 million so if we wanted to destory or vandalize the Churches, we could do it easily.

By logic, 70 million could protect the 7 million and their properities not the other way around !

 

Btw, havent you got board yet from repeating/spreading how bad muslims are ?!

 

I am not trying to repeat or spread anything..

But anybody tries to paint a ´pink picture of islam or any religion´ I will always come up and tell: ´hang on minute that is not right´

And everybody should do so, otherwise there is no escape from backwardness of religions..

So the answer to your question is :  as long as you make islamic propaganda, I will always be against it..



Edited (8/23/2009) by thehandsom

69.       Trudy
7887 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:15 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Hmmmmmmm, i dont like the hint handsom, and they arent appropriate too

Still i will reply it...

1. Then as muslims we have same right to stop anyone not muslim from entering our mosques

2. As we are 70 million muslim here in Egypt, and Christians are almost 7 or 8 million so if we wanted to destory or vandalize the Churches, we could do it easily.

By logic, 70 million could protect the 7 million and their properities not the other way around !

 

Btw, havent you got board yet from repeating/spreading how bad muslims are ?!

 

If someone denies you entrance to a church, a temple, a synagogue just because you are a woman, I would find that idiot as well. I think all people should have the right to visit these places. Sure, not during praying times, that´s logic. For me, an agnost, places of worship are not divine places but I do like the serenity that´s often there a lot, reason enough to visit them.

70.       wanasa
6 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:16 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Well

As I said, as a woman you wont be able to go to those mosques..

As a man, of course I can go into any mosque I want to..

That was the whole point..

 

ps..I am not claiming that I am a good mosque person but in mosques I have been , I saw women in Macca-kabe only and women were at the back section and it was like a cafe (I used to call it´ Kabe cafe´

 

 thehandsome   Someone have cheated you  as I think by showing you anyother place and saying it Macca. I think that will be your travel-agent.   Even in Macca-Kaba there are no different sections of men and women. you can start any TV channel of Saudi Arabia and you can Watch very clearly.

71.       Trudy
7887 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:17 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 wanasa, i believe they meant by ´sending to upstairs´ send women to women´s praying places, and we do that at praying times and we dont have to apologize for that !

 

 

No Canli, I never tried to enter a mosque during praying time. Still there are several where  I was directed to the womens praying place and denied main entrance. If it was during praying time you were right, than they can deny anyone who isn´t coming for prayer. But it was not!

72.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:21 pm

 

Quoting wanasa

 

 

 thehandsome   Someone have cheated you  as I think by showing you anyother place and saying it Macca. I think that will be your travel-agent.   Even in Macca-Kaba there are no different sections of men and women. you can start any TV channel of Saudi Arabia and you can Watch very clearly.

 

 I said : women were at the back section

Shall I still go and accuse my travel agent? lol lol 

73.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:22 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Well

As I said, as a woman you wont be able to go to those mosques..

As a man, of course I can go into any mosque I want to..

That was the whole point..

 

 

Well, as a woman none ever stopped me from enetering any mosque that i wanted to enter.

Ýts not a feminist issue here handsom...its house of God, and we have our rules...if you want to enter, respect them or dont enter !

Ýts as simple as that !

 

74.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:23 pm

      First mosque in which i entered was Yeni Camii from Sirkeci...a man approached and said something..late my friend translated : ´if i want to take pictures i can ´. Ý was never stopped to enter in a mosque... One time when i entered in Ýsa Camii from Selçuk the man from there said to cover my legs with a scarf because i had short pants( maybe too short for a place like that ).

75.       Trudy
7887 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:25 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

Well, as a woman none ever stopped me from enetering any mosque that i wanted to enter.

Ýts not a feminist issue here handsom...its house of God, and we have our rules...if you want to enter, respect them or dont enter !

Ýts as simple as that !

 

 

 It IS a feminist issue as long as Muslims state that men and women are equal. By giving them seperate entrance and praying places it is proven they are not treated equally.

 

76.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:26 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

So the answer to your question is :  as long as you make islamic propaganda, I will always be against it..

 

 Where is the Islamic propaganda?

In addition, if women are separated from men in a mosque, why does that bother you?  Unless that religion is trying to force it´s standards on YOU in your daily life, why is it a problem? 

 

There are endless things we can argue about all religions (including sexism) but if you CHOOSE to visit a place of worship you should be prepared to accept their customs and respect their traditions.  That is all I am saying here. 

77.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:26 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 It IS a feminist issue as long as Muslims state that men and women are equal. By giving them seperate entrance and praying places it is proven they are not treated equally.

 

 

 If you are a feminist athiest, why are you visiting a mosque.  It is not the correct forum for your protest.

78.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:28 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I am not trying to repeat or spread anything..

But anybody tries to paint a ´pink picture of islam or any religion´ I will always come up and tell: ´hang on minute that is not right´

And everybody should do so, otherwise there is no escape from backwardness of religions..

So the answer to your question is :  as long as you make islamic propaganda, I will always be against it..

 

 Ãslamic propaganda ?!

What are you talking about ?!!!!

Ýs anything related to Ýslam make you fail even to see what is it about and start to attack it ?!

pink picture of islam ????!!!!

Mr, Have anyone told you that we build mosques for the aim that non muslims come to visit ?!

Have we asked people to come and visit our mosques ?!

Where is the Ýslamic propaganda/pink picture of islam  of Ýslam here ?!

Ýf non came to visit our mosques its not a problem to us...we build them to pray..Muslims pray not for any other reason !

GOD...you do hate Ýslam so much indeed that you dont/cant even hide it !

79.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:29 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

Well, as a woman none ever stopped me from enetering any mosque that i wanted to enter.

Ýts not a feminist issue here handsom...its house of God, and we have our rules...if you want to enter, respect them or dont enter !

Ýts as simple as that !

 

 

 

 

 

Well

As a muslim  woman, having priveledge to enter a mosque through the back door and to go into ´your section´ of the mosque in Egypt does not change what Trudy said in the first place..

And if you are happy with what you have and if you think that is ´enough´ for you ..

It is fine I guess..  

I will still say that you can NOT enter inyo many many mosques through the main door and go and sit in the ´main ´ section..

That is the truth!!

 

80.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:33 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 It IS a feminist issue as long as Muslims state that men and women are equal. By giving them seperate entrance and praying places it is proven they are not treated equally.

 

 

 Ã dont understand you !

As muslims..we have our rules to pray.

We have our way of praying what would that has to do with equality ?!

Women pray in places and men pray in other places, as women cant pray at same places with men, also men cant pray at same places with women !

What feminist has to do or even got to do with our pray ?!

Ým sorry but its not of their business !

81.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:33 pm

Trudy and Thehandsom continue to baffle me with their weak arguments!! lol

Next, Trudy will be complaining that she visited a Buddhist monastery and was not allowed in thus monks are sexist! lollollol

82.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:37 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

No Canli, I never tried to enter a mosque during praying time. Still there are several where  I was directed to the womens praying place and denied main entrance. If it was during praying time you were right, than they can deny anyone who isn´t coming for prayer. But it was not!

 

 Men are denying women´s entrance too as well !

They cant enter at where women pray !

Ý dont see anyone having problem with that !

You see, the main building of the mosque belong to men´s praying because men´s number are always bigger than women´s numbers at praying time

So its only logic that they have the larger place !

83.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:38 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Ã dont understand you !

As muslims..we have our rules to pray.

We have our way of praying what would that has to do with equality ?!

Women pray in places and men pray in other places, as women cant pray at same places with men, also men cant pray at same places with women !

What feminist has to do or even got to do with our pray ?!

Ým sorry but its not of their business !

 

 

 Maybe she thinks that the whole world is sexist for having separate MALE and FEMALE public toilets...

84.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:39 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Ãslamic propaganda ?!

What are you talking about ?!!!!

Ýs anything related to Ýslam make you fail even to see what is it about and start to attack it ?!

pink picture of islam ????!!!!

Mr, Have anyone told you that we build mosques for the aim that non muslims come to visit ?!

Have we asked people to come and visit our mosques ?!

Where is the Ýslamic propaganda/pink picture of islam  of Ýslam here ?!

Ýf non came to visit our mosques its not a problem to us...we build them to pray..Muslims pray not for any other reason !

GOD...you do hate Ýslam so much indeed that you dont/cant even hide it !

 

I hate the backwardness of any religions..

Why?

I can lecture you about it all day and all night!!24/7 indeed.

But you would not like it really..

You are painting a pink picture of islam by pick and mix here..

You are picking good part of islam/sheria  and traditions and trying to portray them as if they are good things..(of course you are trying to do it generically speaking) 

You are trying to soften the backwardness of it..

You are trying to show a medieval idea as modern philosphy here( and failing miserably of course)

 

Anyway, in islam women are men are not equal..

And you are trying to say that it is normal..

Dont you see how backwards it is?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

85.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:44 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Anyway, in islam women are men are not equal..

And you are trying to say that it is normal..

Dont you see how backwards it is?

 

 This has nothing to do with visiting a mosque!  If Islam is a culture you find sexist and disagree with DONT VISIT A MOSQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Why are you finding this so hard to understand!!! Head bang  As I said before, would a woman visit a monastry and expect to be allowed in? 

86.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:44 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Ã dont understand you !

As muslims..we have our rules to pray.

We have our way of praying what would that has to do with equality ?!

Women pray in places and men pray in other places, as women cant pray at same places with men, also men cant pray at same places with women !

What feminist has to do or even got to do with our pray ?!

Ým sorry but its not of their business !

 

That is the whole point here

Someone is telling you that ´she would be denied entering mosques´ 

Of course it is everything got to do with equality..

Women are put there cage like place in Turkey (they can see men but men are not allowed to see)

They are ´behind the sceene´

It is very much an issue of equality here!!

Infact that is the whole issue here..

But as you say, you are not after equality..

You do not see is an equality issue...

Why are you still  arguing?

 

87.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:46 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

That is the whole point here

Someone is telling you that ´she would be denied entering mosques´ 

Of course it is everything got to do with equality..

Women are put there cage like place in Turkey (they can see men but men are not allowed to see)

They are ´behind the sceene´

It is very much an issue of equality here!!

Infact that is the whole issue here..

But as you say, you are not after equality..

You do not see is an equality issue...

Why are you still  arguing?

 

 

 Why are YOU still arguing!!!!! lol

This is not about something that affects YOUR life.  If you don´t like muslim culture, DONT VISIT A MOSQUE!!! You crazy?

88.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:47 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Well

As a muslim  woman, having priveledge to enter a mosque through the back door and to go into ´your section´ of the mosque in Egypt does not change what Trudy said in the first place..

And if you are happy with what you have and if you think that is ´enough´ for you ..

It is fine I guess..  

I will still say that you can NOT enter inyo many many mosques through the main door and go and sit in the ´main ´ section..

That is the truth!!

 

 

 Well, as a muslim woman i have no problem with that handsom...

Ý go to mosques to pray thats the reason of muslims visit to mosques where they are OUR houses of God.

Ýts a seperated entrance for our comfort not ´back door´ as you like to put it

And i would appreciate it if you show more respect to our rules of praying , you know very well what did you mean by ´back doors´ ´your section´!

Ýn the past  and still at many old mosques women used to enter trough the main doors and go to our women´s places, now when we build mosques we have our seperate places and thats more comfortable to us.

When we need bigger places because of ´elhamdülillah´ number of women increasing, they make modification for the place and make renovation for our comfort.

So yes, as a muslim woman i have no problem

But i dont understand, as non muslim, what is your probelm ?!

89.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:47 pm

Do you find it sexist that men and women pee in separate public toilets?

90.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:48 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 Why are YOU still arguing!!!!! lol

This is not about something that affects YOUR life.  If you don´t like muslim culture, DONT VISIT A MOSQUE!!! You crazy?

 

I am obviously not arguing with you  as you do NOT have a valid point!! lol lol 

91.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:49 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 

 Maybe she thinks that the whole world is sexist for having separate MALE and FEMALE public toilets...

 

 Then i prefer to be sexist and have my own privacy...at least at a public toilet!



Edited (8/23/2009) by ReyhanL [add ´public´]

92.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:49 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I am obviously not arguing with you  as you do NOT have a valid point!! lol lol 

 

 Hahaha you are just embarassing yourself here theH

I should get back to writing poems if I were you

93.       Trudy
7887 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:50 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 This has nothing to do with visiting a mosque!  If Islam is a culture you find sexist and disagree with DONT VISIT A MOSQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Why are you finding this so hard to understand!!! Head bang  As I said before, would a woman visit a monastry and expect to be allowed in? 

 

 FYI - I did enter monastries several times and I was never denied. (The only place I know where women aren´t allowed is Athos in Greece, if there are more, tell me.)

94.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:54 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Well, as a muslim woman i have no problem with that handsom...

Ý go to mosques to pray thats the reason of muslims visit to mosques where they are OUR houses of God.

Ýts a seperated entrance for our comfort not ´back door´ as you like to put it

And i would appreciate it if you show more respect to our rules of praying , you know very well what did you mean by ´back doors´ ´your section´!

Ýn the past  and still at many old mosques women used to enter trough the main doors and go to our women´s places, now when we build mosques we have our seperate places and thats more comfortable to us.

When we need bigger places because of ´elhamdülillah´ number of women increasing, they make modification for the place and make renovation for our comfort.

So yes, as a muslim woman i have no problem

But i dont understand, as non muslim, what is your probelm ?!

 

Well 

Thank you..

That is what I wanted to hear really..

There was an argument that ´women were NOT allowed to enter the mosques through main doors or denied completely´ .

You are not denying it and  saying that you are happy with it..And  the argument was "true".

I still dont know why you have argued!!!

95.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:56 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 Hahaha you are just embarassing yourself here theH

I should get back to writing poems if I were you

 

I do NOT think so..

But well done, you surprised us all again by coming back as ´islam supporter´ this time..lol lol

What will be the next? ha ha

96.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 05:59 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I do NOT think so..

But well done, you surprised us all again by coming back as ´islam supporter´ this time..lol lol

What will be the next? ha ha

 

 My feelings have not changed about religions - however, I would not visit a mosque and then complain about muslim culture.  It is not the correct forum for that...

 

If you want to see pretty buildings, go to non-religious ones



Edited (8/23/2009) by _AE_

97.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:00 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I hate the backwardness of any religions..

Why?

I can lecture you about it all day and all night!!24/7 indeed.

But you would not like it really..

You are painting a pink picture of islam by pick and mix here..

You are picking good part of islam/sheria  and traditions and trying to portray them as if they are good things..(of course you are trying to do it generically speaking) 

You are trying to soften the backwardness of it..

You are trying to show a medieval idea as modern philosphy here( and failing miserably of course)

 

Anyway, in islam women are men are not equal..

And you are trying to say that it is normal..

Dont you see how backwards it is?

 

 

 Do you even try to listen to what other says or you just like your own voice ?

From what you are saying above i can be sure %100 that you didnt read, or at least you didnt understand what you have been reading except one word ´´ÃSLAM´´ and that was enough motive for you to attack !

 

AGAÝN !

WE as muslims did NOT invite or forced anyone to visit OUR mosques..where they are BUÝLT for US to PRAY not for others to visit

Still, we welcome others to visit them.

We dont paint anything, we dont ask or demand people to visit our mosques, we dont force or demand people even to be muslims

We are HAPPY as we are...

WHAT ÝS YOUR PROBLEM ?!!!

98.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:02 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Well 

Thank you..

That is what I wanted to hear really..

There was an argument that ´women were NOT allowed to enter the mosques through main doors or denied completely´ .

You are not denying it and  saying that you are happy with it..And  the argument was "true".

I still dont know why you have argued!!!

 

 As i said...you just hear yourself, and you dont understand or want to understand what others say !

Ý said during praying times .

Still that not clear enough for you ?!

99.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:03 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Do you even try to listen to what other says or you just like your own voice ?

From what you are saying above i can be sure %100 that you didnt read, or at least you didnt understand what you have been reading except one word ´´ÃSLAM´´ and that was enough motive for you to attack !

 

AGAÝN !

WE as muslims did NOT invite or forced anyone to visit OUR mosques..where they are BUÝLT for US to PRAY not for others to visit

Still, we welcome others to visit them.

We dont paint anything, we dont ask or demand people to visit our mosques, we dont force or demand people even to be muslims

We are HAPPY as we are...

WHAT ÝS YOUR PROBLEM ?!!!

 

 

What do you mean my problem?

I am not happy  the way my mother is, the way my sister is..

what are you talking about here?

It IS MY PROBLEM!!!!

100.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:04 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 As i said...you just hear yourself, and you dont understand or want to understand what others say !

Ý said during praying times .

Still that not clear enough for you ?!

 

it was your confession Canli and thank you for that..lol 

 

101.       alex de souza
60 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:06 pm

Well if i saw a woman when i am praying, i think  i would look at her butt sometimes maybe thats why we are not allowed to enter together

102.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:07 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

What do you mean my problem?

I am not happy  the way my mother is, the way my sister is..

what are you talking about here?

It IS MY PROBLEM!!!!

 

 Then i believe your mother and your sister should change the way they are treated if they dont like it, dont you say ?!

And no, its not your problem, its THEÝR problem...

And since they are muslims´ as i assume´ then they also dont accept what you say...or they wont be muslims any more..yes ?!

103.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:11 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Then i believe your mother and your sister should change the way they are treated if they dont like it, dont you say ?!

And no, its not your problem, its THEÝR problem...

And since they are muslims´ as i assume´ then they also dont accept what you say...or they wont be muslims any more..yes ?!

Well thanks for this..

Now you are saying that I should not be arguing for my family members´ rights?

Bad news for you but I will not be doing that..

THAT is my problem because I want to see equality!!!..

As long as the women are not equal, men will never taste the equality !!

You may not like it, you may say that you are happy what you have (as you did earlier)

But I will not..

Because that is my (and everybody´s) problem..

 



Edited (8/23/2009) by thehandsom

104.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:12 pm

 

Quoting alex de souza

Well if i saw a woman when i am praying, i think  i would look at her butt sometimes maybe thats why we are not allowed to enter together

 

 Hmmm yes and I can´t guarantee that I would not look at the man´s butt in front of me either

105.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:14 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

Why are you still  arguing?

 

 

 Who is arguing ?!!!!

ME ?!

Ým muslim, im woman, and i have no problem with my religion

You are not muslim, you are not a woman ...and you are attacking MY religion and even muslim women for not repelling over it !

Ým sure didnt ask you to be neither muslim nor a woman...

SO, WHO ÝS ARGUÝNG ?!!!!!

106.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:18 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Who is arguing ?!!!!

ME ?!

Ým muslim, im woman, and i have no problem with my religion

You are not muslim, you are not a woman ...and you are attacking MY religion and even muslim women for not repelling over it !

Ým sure didnt ask you to be neither muslim nor a woman...

SO, WHO ÝS ARGUÝNG ?!!!!!

 

Well next time please qoute a bit more instead of just taking a line..

I dont remember the context in which I wrote it now..

But as a quick reply, my country and my people´s past present and future have been shadowed by islam..

So I will keep arguing basically..

 

107.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:20 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

Well thanks for this..

Now you are saying that I should not be arguing for my family members´ rights?

Bad news for you but I will not be doing that..

THAT is my problem because I want to see equality!!!..

As long as the women are not equal, men will never taste the equality !!

You may not like it, you may say that you are happy what you have (as you did earlier)

But I will not..

Because that is my (and everybody´s) problem..

 

 

 Then why not start in convincing them first ?!

Seems to me you have failed in that direction so you are throw your anger over all Ýslam and muslims !

Ým muslim, they are muslim and we accept our religion that way...

You are not...and you cant force your ideas and thoughts on us, like it or not !

108.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:22 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Then why not start in convincing them first ?!

Seems to me you have failed in that direction so you are throw your anger over all Ýslam and muslims !

Ým muslim, they are muslim and we accept our religion that way...

You are not...and you cant force your ideas and thoughts on us, like it or not !

 

I am not forcing anything..

But I wont let anybody glorfying it either..

If I see, I will always come back and say ´hang on a minute´

ok? lol

109.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:24 pm

Ýf all will be the same..think the same it will be so boring...

110.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:24 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I am not forcing anything..

But I wont let anybody glorfying it either..

If I see, I will always come back and say ´hang on a minute´

ok? lol

 

Yes we see - but nobody may say "hang on a minute" to you without you name-calling, crying, begging for their posts to be deleted, or generally trying to discredit them right?

 

111.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:24 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Well next time please qoute a bit more instead of just taking a line..

I dont remember the context in which I wrote it now..

But as a quick reply, my country and my people´s past present and future have been shadowed by islam..

So I will keep arguing basically..

 

 

 haaa, haaa, haaaaa

But that was the only thing i needed to reply too, i qouteded  it...and as you repeat yourself so you wont find problem remembering the whole posts 

112.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:27 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 haaa, haaa, haaaaa

But that was the only thing i needed to reply too, i qouteded  it...and as you repeat yourself so you wont find problem remembering the whole posts 

Come on Canli

You have accepted what is said in the first place and tried to escape with ´ah we are muslims and we have our rules´..It is as good as confession..

No need yo argue anymore really

 

113.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:28 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

Yes we see - but nobody may say "hang on a minute" to you without you name-calling, crying, begging for their posts to be deleted, or generally trying to discredit them right?

 

 

Now you are making it up!! A new thing with the new nick?

114.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:30 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I am not forcing anything..

But I wont let anybody glorfying it either..

If I see, I will always come back and say ´hang on a minute´

ok? lol

 

 Noo, nooo, you mean

´´But i wont let a chance to attack it when ever i see the word Ýslam been written´´

To remind you, we were talking about visiting mosques...and nothing would be glory if its allowed or not to visit them for non muslism lol

Ý mean, it wouldnt make Ýslam a great religion or bad one if non muslims allowed or not allowed to visit !

But... as i said, you just saw the motivated word ´Ãslam´ and that was enough for you to attack lol

115.       _AE_
677 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:31 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Now you are making it up!! A new thing with the new nick?

 

 Which part exactly am I "making up"?

116.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:32 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

Come on Canli

You have accepted what is said in the first place and tried to escape with ´ah we are muslims and we have our rules´..It is as good as confession..

No need yo argue anymore really

 

 

 Accepted what handsom, dont you really understand English ?!!!

Well, you can ask for translation if you needed one !

 

117.       Queent
183 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:51 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Well

As I said, as a woman you wont be able to go to those mosques..

As a man, of course I can go into any mosque I want to..

That was the whole point..

 

ps..I am not claiming that I am a good mosque person but in mosques I have been , I saw women in Macca-kabe only and women were at the back section and it was like a cafe (I used to call it´ Kabe cafe´

 

So you used to call it that way...

RESPECTTTTTTTTTTTTTT please

 

118.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 06:59 pm

Ok, so religions are more favourable to men. What a surprise taking into consideration the fact that they were created by men. Phew.

 

Opening a milk factory for women only has no religious explanation (unless there is a Holy Book of Milk Factories that favours women). Even if the motifs behind it were as Kitty says, it is still a discriminatory reason.

119.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 07:03 pm

The Holly Book of  European Union norms Big smile

120.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 07:17 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 Which part exactly am I "making up"?

 

Are there any part you are not making?

 

121.       Queent
183 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 08:09 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I hate the backwardness of any religions..

Why?

I can lecture you about it all day and all night!!24/7 indeed.

But you would not like it really..

You are painting a pink picture of islam by pick and mix here..

You are picking good part of islam/sheria  and traditions and trying to portray them as if they are good things..(of course you are trying to do it generically speaking) 

You are trying to soften the backwardness of it..

You are trying to show a medieval idea as modern philosphy here( and failing miserably of course)

 

Anyway, in islam women are men are not equal..

And you are trying to say that it is normal..

Dont you see how backwards it is?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ýslam, Our religion doesn´t need anyone to paint a pink image for it.

What is the problem if men and women are not equal?? it is not backwardness at all.

122.       lady in red
6947 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 08:15 pm

 

Quoting Queent

 

 

Ýslam, Our religion doesn´t need anyone to paint a pink image for it.

What is the problem if men and women are not equal?? it is not backwardness at all.

 

 I most definitely do not call myself a feminist but...... What the hell! You crazy?

123.       catwoman
8933 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 08:26 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

Yes we see - but nobody may say "hang on a minute" to you without you name-calling, crying, begging for their posts to be deleted, or generally trying to discredit them right?

 

Eh? And what do you think you are doing now? I would really like it if people could put their personal feelings where they belong.

124.       Queent
183 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 08:31 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 

 

 I most definitely do not call myself a feminist but...... What the hell! You crazy?

 

YES they are not equal, they are completely different from eachother, Science says so (not to include our religious feelings here).

THIS doesn´t mean Men are better than Women, AND doesn´t mean Women are better than Men either.

still I´m asking What is the problem if Men and Women are not equal and are different?

125.       catwoman
8933 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 09:08 pm

 

Quoting Queent

YES they are not equal, they are completely different from eachother, Science says so (not to include our religious feelings here).

THIS doesn´t mean Men are better than Women, AND doesn´t mean Women are better than Men either.

still I´m asking What is the problem if Men and Women are not equal and are different?

 

By saying that they are not equal, you are making a moral judgment that one IS better or superior to the other. You might want to say that men and women are different in some ways, which have nothing to do with their worth as humans.

Islam specifically says that men and women are not equal, I think you are fooling yourself by denying the actual meaning of this and you are trying to rationalize it by saying that "men and women are physiologically different is the same as men and women are not equal".

Would you say that Turkish people are not equal to Greek people and then try to defend it by saying that they have different language, different culture, religion... etc? Do you think that people would let you get away with that? So I would say, stop fooling yourself and stop accepting inferior treatment just because you are a woman.

126.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 09:11 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

 

 

 

Islam specifically says that men and women are not equal, I think you are fooling yourself by

 

 

is it just islam that says women are inferior to men? how about christianity and judaism?

 

127.       Melek1974
154 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 09:20 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

 

is it just islam that says women are inferior to men? how about christianity and judaism?

 

 

Oh no worries Tami, your beloved Christianity is as guilty as any of the patriarchic religions.  Religions were made up by men and for men. When it comes to human rights abuse, nothing comes close to what stems from religions.



Edited (8/23/2009) by Melek1974

128.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 10:02 pm

 

Quoting Queent

 

 

YES they are not equal, they are completely different from eachother, Science says so (not to include our religious feelings here).

THIS doesn´t mean Men are better than Women, AND doesn´t mean Women are better than Men either.

still I´m asking What is the problem if Men and Women are not equal and are different?

 

Equal is not the word here Queent, and im sure thats not what you meant.

Ý believe you meant we are not same..

As human we are equal, means we have rights and duties as also men have rights and duties, but also  human consist of 2 parts women and men with different nature, and accourding to this we have different rights and different duties.

At some issue we as women have rights in something men dont have same rights as us, and also at other point men may have some rights we dont have same rights as them, but as you said that doesnt mean they are better or we are better.

Those differences in rights and duties are due to our differences in nature, but at other issues which are not effected by those differences in nature we are having same rights and duties.

 



Edited (8/23/2009) by CANLI
Edited (8/23/2009) by CANLI

129.       Queent
183 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 10:05 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

 

 

By saying that they are not equal, you are making a moral judgment that one IS better or superior to the other. You might want to say that men and women are different in some ways, which have nothing to do with their worth as humans.

Islam specifically says that men and women are not equal, I think you are fooling yourself by denying the actual meaning of this and you are trying to rationalize it by saying that "men and women are physiologically different is the same as men and women are not equal".

Would you say that Turkish people are not equal to Greek people and then try to defend it by saying that they have different language, different culture, religion... etc? Do you think that people would let you get away with that? So I would say, stop fooling yourself and stop accepting inferior treatment just because you are a woman.

 

I´m not fooling myself by anything, as no one is doing

I´m not suffering from any inferior treatment, I feel I´m lucky being a woman.

130.       catwoman
8933 posts
 23 Aug 2009 Sun 11:22 pm

 

Quoting Queent

I´m not fooling myself by anything, as no one is doing

I´m not suffering from any inferior treatment, I feel I´m lucky being a woman.

 

Well, I´m happy about this, but I think you should be concerned that a lot of women are not as lucky as you are.

131.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 24 Aug 2009 Mon 06:38 pm

Sorry, I am late to the argument...Gosh, I hate when the happens.

 

It seems on the face of it, that the women´s only factory is discriminating against men.  So with that said, my first instinct is to say, why don´t they just employ half men and half women, to be fair to everyone?  Then when I think a little beyond my initial reaction, I have to say, how many men in would ALLOW their daughters and wives to work if men where working in the same place?  Perhaps this is just a first step to getting women in the workplace.....something that is definately needed to bring eventual equal treatment. 

132.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 09:46 pm

I know that at first it seems a sexist idea, but you should look at the position of women in the Eastern parts of Turkey, the position of men, and look at the whole picture. There are MANY families that will only let their daughters/wives work on the farms, because they don´t want them to have contact with men, and other reasons as well. The problem with this kind of work is that it is black market work. The women have no insurance...not the legal insurance of non-employment, but also no insurance for work related accidents, and the like. I think they started the factory to draw these kind of girls in. At first sight very good for them, because they position will be much better than on the farms...

But also keep in mind that they will probably earn less then their male counterparts in normal factories (it is just statistics). Often companies open these kind of factories simply because women earn less, and are less mouthy to demand more rights and more money. Often women in underdeveloped positions are used by companies because they are easier to mold to the "perfect employee"...hard working but not demanding towards their boss.

 

(By the way, this is exactly the topic of the thesis that I´m writing I´m an expert, lol)



Edited (9/1/2009) by barba_mama

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