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Eight killed in Turkey flash floods
(55 Messages in 6 pages - View all)
1 2 [3] 4 5 6
20.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 09 Sep 2009 Wed 10:49 pm

 

Quoting Loveprague

A very sad day watching the news coverage for most of the day, we are not far away from most of the worst flooding and just want to express our deepest sympathy for all those that have died and are hopes for the people still missing that they will be found

 

 Hope you and your family are safe!

21.       alameda
3499 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 01:18 am

Amazing video of the floods


It doesn´t look like it will end soon either.


Al Jazeera article on flood



Edited (9/10/2009) by alameda [add]

22.       Uzun_Hava
449 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 05:05 am

 

Quoting vineyards

Today there was a striking piece of news in a Turkish newspaper, the amount of precipitation accumulated after the 30 minute heavy rain fall of yesterday (90kgs)  was higher than the amount of average total precipitation of the entire year (80kgs).

 

Every year torrential floods happen in this country. They are a very serious problem especially for the Black Sea region where precipitation amounts are particularly high and where most towns are located at the mouths of natural gullies on a mountainous terrain with sharp slopes.

 

(Never mind, that is is what it is.)  How does rainfall in kilograms work, is it the weight of water on a square meter?

 



Edited (9/10/2009) by Uzun_Hava [Fix]
Edited (9/10/2009) by Uzun_Hava

23.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 11:54 am

This is a result of serious negligence..

24.       vineyards
1954 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 12:46 pm

That´s the way it was reported in the newspaper.

Since rain water is almost pure a kg of it will have a volume of one cubic decimeter hence one liter.

Quoting Uzun_Hava

 

(Never mind, that is is what it is.)  How does rainfall in kilograms work, is it the weight of water on a square meter?

 

 

 

25.       cedars
235 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 01:36 pm


They reported precipitation the same way as they report snow that is kgs per squared meters therefore the value 90 kgs represents 90 kgs/m2

Usually, Precipitation is  reported in depth per time e.g. (mm/day)

 

simple conversion:
knowing that 1 liter of water equals 1000 centimeters cube and weights one kilograms
(water density is one gram per milliliter)
 
90 kgs/m2 = 90 L/m2 = 90,000 cc/m2 = 90,000 cc/10000cm2 = 9cm = 90 mm


The total precipitation for Ýstanbul averages 870 mm per year.
So basically they had 10% in only 30 minutes that is too much. 

 

Quoting vineyards

That´s the way it was reported in the newspaper.

Since rain water is almost pure a kg of it will have a volume of one cubic decimeter hence one liter.

 

 

 

 

26.       libralady
5152 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 02:15 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

This is a result of serious negligence..

 

 How´s that? 

 

I not disagreeing but could you tell us what the serious negligence is and how that would contribute to the outcome of this extreme weather event? 

 

Like in the UK everyone is laying brick weave drives so the run off water has no where to go in the event of heavy rain, and over loads the drainage systems causing flash flooding.  Or houses are built in flood plains - and flood plains are there to protect people form flooding. 

 

Is that what you mean, drainage systems are not properly maintained??

 

I´m interested to know.



Edited (9/10/2009) by libralady [Add some stuff]
Edited (9/10/2009) by libralady

27.       Bennu
1 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 04:09 pm

I am very shocked from that what happened in Istanbul. I was there 2 weeks ago... I can`t believe... I wish everything will be all right soon.

28.       alameda
3499 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 04:37 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 

 

 How´s that? 

 

I not disagreeing but could you tell us what the serious negligence is and how that would contribute to the outcome of this extreme weather event? 

 

Like in the UK everyone is laying brick weave drives so the run off water has no where to go in the event of heavy rain, and over loads the drainage systems causing flash flooding.  Or houses are built in flood plains - and flood plains are there to protect people form flooding. 

 

Is that what you mean, drainage systems are not properly maintained??

 

I´m interested to know.

Not that I´m an expert on the Turkish flood problem, but...it looks like you have a pretty good idea of what happened, which seems to be too many people moving into an area.  Those immigrants  improvising living conditions.

 

There has been a lot of immigration to some areas where people have done "do it yourself" upgrades. They are not trained in the right way to do things.  Inspectors are over worked and don´t get to check it all.

 

On a personal level, I have a friend who is an engineer, who has a neighbor who has property a little higher than his. This neighbor put drainage in a way that causes it to run into the engineers property, wich caused weakening of the engineers structure.  It´s a long complicated technical issue...if he calls inspectors.....they don´t really have the technical knowledge....anyway... you get the jist of it?

 

29.       libralady
5152 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 05:23 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 

Not that I´m an expert on the Turkish flood problem, but...it looks like you have a pretty good idea of what happened, which seems to be too many people moving into an area.  Those immigrants  improvising living conditions.

 

There has been a lot of immigration to some areas where people have done "do it yourself" upgrades. They are not trained in the right way to do things.  Inspectors are over worked and don´t get to check it all.

 

On a personal level, I have a friend who is an engineer, who has a neighbor who has property a little higher than his. This neighbor put drainage in a way that causes it to run into the engineers property, wich caused weakening of the engineers structure.  It´s a long complicated technical issue...if he calls inspectors.....they don´t really have the technical knowledge....anyway... you get the jist of it?

 

 

 Yes you are right, I do have a pretty good idea what some of the problems are, increasing population in the city requires more accomodation to be built.  Poor planning as in terms of planning population growth and housing is part of the problem, building on river beds etc.  But in the end, this is the worst storm seen in Istanbul for 80 years so not all down to serious negligence.  It is also down to our total lack of respect for our planet and we are all responsible for that!

 

Perhaps thehandsom can comment on the techinical side a little better than the assumptions I and Alameda are making.  

 

It is very sad that people lives are so badly disrupted and the UK too has seen many episodes like this, except not so many deaths.  It takes months to clean up and return to normal.

 

I´m off to a climate change seminar to night as it happens.........

30.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 10 Sep 2009 Thu 08:36 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 

Not that I´m an expert on the Turkish flood problem, but...it looks like you have a pretty good idea of what happened, which seems to be too many people moving into an area.  Those immigrants  improvising living conditions.

 

There has been a lot of immigration to some areas where people have done "do it yourself" upgrades. They are not trained in the right way to do things.  Inspectors are over worked and don´t get to check it all.

 

On a personal level, I have a friend who is an engineer, who has a neighbor who has property a little higher than his. This neighbor put drainage in a way that causes it to run into the engineers property, wich caused weakening of the engineers structure.  It´s a long complicated technical issue...if he calls inspectors.....they don´t really have the technical knowledge....anyway... you get the jist of it?

 

 

 

Well..

Authorities were warned by the meteorology/weather station in advance..

Dont we have civil enginners in Turkey who are able to calculate what would happen if that amount of rain drops in an area?

That stream  flooded 14 years ago too..Why did not local governments do anything?

Ok..Lets forget why nothing has been done to that stream..

The flood came into the road and killed people..

Why on earth did  you not close the road to the traffic? 

 

You know that the rain is coming; you know that the river/stream is going to flood, you dont need to be a professor in a civil engineering faculty to think that  water will have to go somewhere!!

The PM was the head of local government when that stream was flooded 14 years ago!!

This is not a financial problem..

Istanbul is a rich city. 

Budget of Istanbul municipality is quite huge!!

..

Anyway..

It is terrible to watch that people are dying with the knowledge that it could have been prevented..

 

 



Edited (9/10/2009) by thehandsom

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